View Full Version : Giddy up giddy up giddy up _ _ _ ....

04-26-2010, 09:56 PM
SInce my other thread got kinda messy with all my random posts, I will use this thread to add to my 409 build up for the Biscayne

The block:
A 1963 CFD casting QG 409. Standard bore. I bought it as a complete shortblock and parted out the rods, pistons, oil pan and some other parts and pieces leaving me with basically the bare block and the standard-standard forged crank. My motor will be a stock stroke (3.5") 409. The block will have to be gone over and most likely taken .030 over to clean up the bore. There is NO rust or anything like that to clean up. I have gotten rid of casting flash already in the water ports and the lifter valley. Its just sitting now waiting attention all greased up and safe.

The shortblock will consist of:
stock forged crank with hopefully just a polish as there is no scoring on the journals
Clevite bearings
BBC 6.135" Eagle I-beam rods with ARP rod bolts
Ross forged slugs
new 6qt oil pan with GM Hi Po windage tray
BBC oil pump
Isky high performance solid lifters with EDM oiling holes
Comp solid cam 242/246 @.050 (272/276 advertised dur) with 595/.608 lift on a 110 LSA
Cloyes double roller timing chain
original GM timing cover that I modified to use with a bolt on precision timing pointer


04-26-2010, 10:03 PM
The heads
Reworked small port 333 casting 409 heads. They are hand ported by me with bowl blending, intake and exhaust gasket matching and just general clean up using the die grinder...here is what they are getting:

Pressed in studs removed
Stud bosses machined for ARP screw in studs
rotator delete spacers for exhaust valve springs
swirl polished stainless steel valves with machine work done to go to larger intakes
Viton valve seals
Bronze valve guides
Comp double valve springs
Comp retainers
Scorpion or Comp 1.75 rockers (stock GM is 1.75)
Isky high performance push rods


Prince Valiant
04-26-2010, 10:08 PM
While I think the 4 speed/327 is pretty darn cool...this, when done, will be tits! Seriously, not too many out and about with the 409...seen plenty in showroom/museums, but not terribly many out on the streets.

04-26-2010, 10:14 PM
it will be a fun combination for sure when its done. A lot of guys are "afraid" to run such a rare motor. But thats why I chose to go with the "not so rare" 409 iron parts to keep it fun. It'll still be a stump puller when its in the car and should provide plenty of horsepower to get me in trouble. As long as I stay on my plan to use quality parts in the motor, it will be plenty reliable and run really hard.

Prince Valiant
04-26-2010, 10:18 PM
Any plans to up the rear gears a bit? Don't you have something around 3.08's now? I would think with a ported head/that big a cam type combo...and what carb will you run btw? I would imagine you're going to want something upward 3.73's on the low end...

04-26-2010, 10:22 PM
^ already taken care of. A built rearend went in the car with an eaton posi, 3.73s, billet bearing cap girdles yadda yadda last spring ;)

Prince Valiant
04-26-2010, 10:48 PM
Oh sure...when were you going to tell me? After you won your burger? :goof

04-27-2010, 06:26 AM

04-27-2010, 06:42 AM
Looking great J!!!

04-28-2010, 12:19 PM
Very cool!

05-18-2010, 08:54 PM
some new parts that have been sitting around for awhile. Everything for the heads:

Russell Racing 2.195 stainless swirl polished intake valves
Russell Racing 1.725 stainless swirl polished exhaust valves
Comp solid cam
Comp dual valve springs
Comp retainers
Exhaust rotator delete spacers
ARP screw in studs
Edelbrock pro dual carb air cleaner
and I already have the Isky EDM solid lifters to round out the valvetrain

Need to order rockers. Might go with a Comp or a lot of guys run the Harland Sharps. I have a bunch of Summit bucks saved up so its nice to get some parts for free from time to time :)


05-18-2010, 09:46 PM
Those heads look crazy!! Can't wait to hear it run after it's together.

06-11-2010, 12:29 PM
Edelbrock Performer Dual Quad intake on the way along with the black oxide ARP intake bolts. Every bolt on the motor will be ARP.

Doing some research on carbs this afternoon. Looks like dual 500cfm carbs will handle the requirements just fine ;)

06-12-2010, 05:03 PM
here is a quick shot of the intake sitting on the motor. I couldn't resist mocking it up :headbang


06-12-2010, 08:28 PM
That's gonna look pretty boss...

08-25-2010, 08:50 PM
Just a quick update...the connecting rods showed up today finally after some confusion. The rods are 6.135" big block Chevy length forged Eagle SIRs with ARP fasteners. One step closer. Next up, carbs and distributor


10-02-2010, 03:32 PM
More parts came today: Edelbrock aluminum water pump, some ARP hardware, and the SFI harmonic balancer. Decided to opt for the SFI-approved balancer since this motor's torque curve should peak pretty high and I intend to rev it. The carbs require some modifications to work with the stock-style fuel line set up for the dual quads so those will take a bit to get. I'll be running the Eddy Thunder Series AVS carbs with adjust on the fly secondaries. Pretty nice carbs for my set up.

Still waiting on the rockers. Heading to Appleton tomorrow to bring back some misc. 409 stuff also! Fun!

10-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Well just a quick update. I think I am done with the port job on my heads. Pretty happy with how they turned out. Its been a lot of work and time but its fun knowing I ported them myself. Hope my efforts show on the dyno once the motor is together!


11-03-2010, 02:48 PM
Pretty pumped....carbs and stock-style carb linkage on the way. Will post another pic of the motor mocked up with these pieces in place once they get here. Its really going to start to look like a motor now! Getting closer. Should look mean with the 1" spacers under the carbs!

11-03-2010, 02:59 PM
Pretty pumped....carbs and stock-style carb linkage on the way. Will post another pic of the motor mocked up with these pieces in place once they get here. Its really going to start to look like a motor now! Getting closer. Should look mean with the 1" spacers under the carbs!

most nitrous plates are only 1/2" j.

11-03-2010, 03:51 PM
More room for more gun!

11-04-2010, 08:05 AM
2 times (1/2") = 1".........

so dual plate? WOW man! You know you can get dual stage single plates... so that means 4 stages!!! AWESOME!~

11-04-2010, 08:44 AM
haha you guys crack me up.

11-06-2010, 06:44 PM
mocked up! Still need the carb spacers, dizzy, headers etc but it looks like a motor! I'm jazzed


11-06-2010, 06:51 PM
looking good but is that going to fit under a stock hood?

11-07-2010, 07:28 AM
yep it'll fit....well, it might be close once the carb spacers are on it but I still think it will fit. :)

11-07-2010, 08:33 AM
soooooooo pretty!

Prince Valiant
11-07-2010, 08:48 AM
It's not pretty...it's puurty.

Do you pretty much have everything you need to drop it in by spring?

11-07-2010, 08:55 AM
I am jealous man that thing is gonna be sweet.

william schlosser
11-07-2010, 11:36 AM
That is a nice looking motor. I will see your car one of these days. My wife is a good friend of your mother and grandmother.

11-07-2010, 11:56 AM
That is bad ass looking.

11-07-2010, 08:02 PM
It's not pretty...it's puurty.

Do you pretty much have everything you need to drop it in by spring?

Still need some parts Chris: distributor, headers, fuel pump, oil pan, wires and some hardware and then once the machine work is complete the bearings, gaskets, pistons etc can get ordered. I'm real close now though!

01-04-2011, 08:50 PM
In the home stretch of accumulating parts for my motor project. After much back and forth on header selection, I decided to go with a 1-7/8" stepped Tri-Y set from Jerod Jardine, son of the famous Jardine Headers from the 1960s that were found on many a 409 motor at the dragstrip. The basic Jardine header design is based on a long 1-7/8" primary tube that steps up and Y's into a 2", which steps up and Y's into a 2.50" and ultimately ends into 3" collector. The design creates great low rpm torque and performance while giving up little to nothing on the top end all while fitting within the tricky X-frame.

On the dyno these headers make great power and after a lengthy conversation with Jerod Jardine, I was convinced his header was right for my motor and my goals for it. I will post a few photos of the headers once they arrive in a few weeks. They are hand built and welded in a jig so it's a pretty cool piece and exciting to own a header with a neat history with it.

On a side note, it's looking very promising that my engine could be together in a couple months.

01-05-2011, 01:18 PM
Very cool JBiz. Glad to hear it is all coming together for ya. Sounds like you are super stoked...and rightfully so. Keep the updates coming.

01-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Thanks Brad! The motor won't make the most horsepower or run the fastest ET but it should make this barge scoot! I need to post some photos once I have something more to show. The headers will be pretty neat, I'm pumped to have such cool speed parts on my car. The distributor, wires, head bolts and some other small stuff showed up today. The pile is growing!

01-05-2011, 02:37 PM
This is turning out to be one bad ass build. I cant wait to see the results, as well as hear it in person

01-05-2011, 02:52 PM
^ Thanks man. It should be a pretty unique motor if anything. Not many dual quad 409s running around and I will drive the hell out of it. I'm building it to run and run hard. I think the combination of headers I am having built, solid lifters, manly cam and exhaust a la Ron at Clocks Off and it should sound pretty snotty. But the better question is, will it haul mail? I think it will be pretty quick honestly. Afterall, the car doesn't weigh as much as some might think :stare

Its gonna need stronger axles for sure and some tires...

Prince Valiant
01-05-2011, 03:40 PM
But the better question is, will it haul mail? I think it will be pretty quick honestly. I would imagine that properly set-up, tuned, and good traction, hell-the-F-yeah it'll be quick.

Have you ever thought about getting your heads flow tested? Referring to Stan Weiss's cylinder headflow data (http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy), it looks like there is some decent potential in the heads...yours is a small valve?

I'd imagine that if your flow is in the 250-270 cfm range, and with that big mechanical cam, you'll probably see a touch over 500hp gross...probably enough to put you at least well into the 12's safely would be my guess.

What's funny is that I think myself a supreme "bench racer" in that I'm pretty familiar with what builds will achieve which goals/benchmarks/etc...but I'm flumoxed by the 409...it's just different enough, and exceedingly rare enough that I have no experience or have read enough to have any idea how your car will end up...it's pretty exciting. Looking forward to it being done :thumbsup

01-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Chris, I just can't afford to have them flow tested. I have a small fortune in this whole motor as it is so I think you can understand. I am however going to have the cam broken in and a few pulls done on the engine dyno to get some numbers though. Those should be a good indication if my selection of parts are working or not. My estimations in flow numbers are right on what your estimate is 250-275cfm intake. My heads are "small port" 333 castings stock but are being retrofitted with bigger 2.195 intake valves, three-angle valve job, pocket porting and gasket matching. This upsizing the intake valve size while still retaining a smallish port creates great velocity as others more experienced than me have found. There aren't many out there that are building a decent compression (over 10:1), stock stroke, mechanical cammed 409 using these heads so there are some eyes watching my build and ultimately power this thing makes. These motors a HUGE air pumps. They like long tube headers and long intake runners etc.

A lot of guys with deeper pockets than me just go with a stroker rotating assembly...IE 396-427-454 crank, rods etc for 434-480" but I wanted to retain the stock stroke in this engine. More fun to see what I can do since a lot of people ditch it in favor of more stroke and plus I already had a nice crank for it.

I agree the fuel and curve in the dizzy will make a huge difference in its power output and how it performs on the street. These motors can pick up 12-15hp with adding 1 degree of timing on the dyno. One of the best in the biz is setting it up when its time to make a pull so I think it will make power :)

Prince Valiant
01-05-2011, 05:47 PM
Where are you getting a dyno pull done?

01-05-2011, 06:19 PM
Missouri where the machine work/build is taking place

01-07-2011, 10:36 AM
distributor showed up and I should have the plug wires and coil today after a mixup with Summit. The distributor is a nice piece :stare ARP head bolts and oil canister to filter adapter came also. :D

01-18-2011, 01:06 PM
The Jardine headers are done :drool: Couple pics showing them in process, test fitting and finished. These came right from Jerod Jardine! Great guy! :headbang




Rocket Power
01-18-2011, 01:29 PM

01-18-2011, 05:07 PM
nice build......lovin the pics!!

01-20-2011, 07:45 PM
She's real fine your 409.:thumbsup. Sorry had to. Very nice build thats what i'm talking about a build you can drive with no purpose in mind. Can't wait to see it and here it run I have never heard a 409!

01-20-2011, 08:23 PM
Yea it should be cool when it's done I can't wait. It's got some unique parts on an already unique motor so I'm pumped. You'll have to check it out when it's in and running. I'll post better pics of the headers when they get here.

The plans are made to get the build started. I'll be taking everything to the shop late Feb.

01-25-2011, 08:59 PM
Here are a couple shots of one of the headers mocked up on the engine. Notice all the beauty marks FedEx provided at no additional charge :flipoff2: Please ignore my messy basement :chair::rolf The headers are Jardine stepped Tri-Ys. Quality of them appear to be very good.


Ricky Bobby
01-25-2011, 09:20 PM
must be laundry day :rolf

headers look good not to many people run the tri-y that i see or hear about should have a diff tone to it no??

01-25-2011, 09:33 PM
Good question...I haven't heard anyone say they sound different?? Large tube headers on a 409 are stupid loud anyways though lol. The stepped design complements the Tri y style. It's more about making usable power versus sound/tone I think

Rocket Power
01-25-2011, 10:07 PM
What size exhaust are you going to run?

BTW those headers are sexy:headbang

01-25-2011, 10:12 PM
Collectors are 3" so 3" pipes into the mufflers and 2.5" from the muffler out the back exiting in the stock location. Ron suggested a full 3"'system but I would have to give up the stock tailpipe location which I just can't do....I like the stock exit exhaust on these cars too much

01-27-2011, 06:31 PM
looks great fedx rocks:crying

01-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Yea they beat those headers up pretty good. Its OK though. They will get coated now and look killer

02-03-2011, 09:38 AM
fuel lines all done. Full 3/8" from the pump to the carbs. I wanted to hardline everything similar to the factory dual carb motors utilizing an AC Delco glass bowl fuel filter. I am stripping the coating on the tubing and polishing it to look like the factory lines also. Still have to polish the main feed line yet from the pump to the filter but you get the idea. Took a few attempts to get something I was happy with. I can flare pretty well, its the bending I'm not so good at :rolf Next up, finishing the alternator mounting and checking for proper belt alignment. I have a lower bracket I modified/fabbed just have to finish it, strip it and paint it. I will post pics when that is done. Then the entire motor gets torn down and boxed up for delivery to the machine shop.

If anyone is looking for quality inverted flare brass fittings, check out Valley Hydraulic Service in South Elgin, Illinois. They have every size imaginable, the fittings are reasonable and I had then in a day and a half.



02-03-2011, 09:52 AM
if thats the fuel pump you are going to use,make sure you take each bolt out and locktite them...ive seen them fall out before,and it makes quite the gasoline puddle.

02-03-2011, 10:17 AM
yea I can do that. I had to re-clock the bottom portion of the pump so its not a big deal to take it apart again. Thanks for the heads up

Rocket Power
02-03-2011, 11:29 AM
What kind of bender do you have? Whenever I try to do a 90 on 3/8 line it kinks on me:rolf

02-03-2011, 11:39 AM
I think its a Superior?? I have a Blue Point flaring tool that works great. You are welcome to borrow my bender if you need it for anything. I can do 180 3/8 line with it

Rocket Power
02-03-2011, 11:48 AM
I may take you up on that when the time comes. Still deciding between 800cfm Qjet and 750 Holley. Probably going holley.

02-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Very nice looking headers and an overall awesome setup.

02-04-2011, 09:15 PM

02-24-2011, 02:37 PM
Just an update

The time to get the motor together is now here. Meeting with the engine guru Monday morning to go over the plan and drop off all my parts. Can't wait to see this thing come together. I will take pics and post them Monday of the shop as I'm sure there are a lot of impressive engines being built with the drag racing season fast approaching. He builds a lot of motors (both mopar wedge and W-motors) for nostalgic drag racing and super stocks. Hoping my engine is done and ready for the dyno by early-mid April.

Had a couple experienced 409 builders and racers work the numbers on my motor and spit out some figures (estimates) on what kind of power this thing could make. A lot will depend on how good my head porting actually is as well as the tune up on the dyno. It has the right parts to make power so we'll see what it ACTUALLY does. :headbang

I think it has enough cam to nudge 450hp on pump fuel but we'll see. We also have a few tricks planned to get an ideal quench so we'll see how that all works out also. My big headers should also help it scream :devil

I'll keep the thread updated with photos soon enough.

02-25-2011, 12:55 PM
very nice so far :)

02-25-2011, 12:58 PM
Thanks man!

02-28-2011, 10:18 PM
Motor and parts made it to Missouri. Couple misc shots from the shop.
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7854/dsc2075.jpg (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/dsc2075.jpg/)

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http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6302/dsc2079.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/dsc2079.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/605/dsc2082.jpg (http://img815.imageshack.us/i/dsc2082.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9009/dsc2085j.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/dsc2085j.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/2667/dsc2088.jpg (http://img573.imageshack.us/i/dsc2088.jpg/)

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Rocket Power
03-01-2011, 11:03 AM
very cool

03-01-2011, 12:27 PM
Looks like a good shop. I like how you are staying with the 409 to make the power that you want. This will be a very interesting build to watch from your 1 post to the dyno numbers and finally what it does in the car.

03-01-2011, 01:12 PM
I can tell you its not easy and also $$$$. Old motors are expensive to build right. The unfortunate part of the 409 versus the conventional big block chevy is the 409 doesn't make horsepower as efficiently as the BBC. Its also hard to make compression with these engines. Valve to piston clearance becomes an issue. My motor is getting a "Power Slot" style Diamond Racing piston based on the original Jahns racing pistons of the 60s but in a modern forging with maximum weight removal. It's also getting a ring pack that is good for another 10hp according to the builder.

These W motors are just plain cool to me. They make a lot of torque and are so unique which is what makes them fun. I will give up a few horsepower for the WOW factor. No matter what the horsepower or torque figures are, I stand to make 150+hp over my 327 and twice the torque which is gonna make this ship fly! The shop is going to take photos along the way so I will post them here for you all to see the thing coming together. I should also have video of it on the engine dyno in a couple months.

03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Very cool. Sounds like it will he a torque monster.

BTW what size bore is that? Always hard to judge by pictures but it looks huge!

03-01-2011, 02:43 PM
They are 4.3125" bore standard. 3.5" stroke. Mine is standard bore but will probably go .030 to straighten it out and freshen it up. Stock 409 connecting rod length is 6.00" and I'm sticking 6.135" BBC length Eagle rods in it.

Prince Valiant
03-01-2011, 03:04 PM
Hell, I'm betting the sound of this thing at idle will make the investment worthwhile...everything else will be icing on the cake!

03-01-2011, 03:41 PM
I would agree Chris. It should idle with attitude

03-01-2011, 04:23 PM
Very excited for you J! Maybe a little 402 Vs 409 grudge match this summer.

03-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Thanks Joe. Yea I think we should square off this summer for sure! I'm gonna say the beige barge gets the win light on this one :)

03-01-2011, 05:01 PM
that's fine, that will provoke me to build something new next year!

03-01-2011, 09:05 PM
hahaha nice!!! I don't even have this motor done and I wish I could build another one :)

03-01-2011, 10:16 PM
If I could I would like to bring my Clevor to the challange but shy of robbing a bank that isnt going to happen.

03-23-2011, 05:48 PM
Picked this guy up to replace my dead RAC tach. Its a Sun Tach based on the vintage half sweep versions they produced in the 60s. Should be perfect for the interior of the Biscayne

03-23-2011, 07:54 PM
jealous jealous jealous

03-23-2011, 09:11 PM
Besides the tach I posted I have a bit of an update on the motor. The block has been cleaned, magnafluxed, measured etc. The block will clean up easy at .030. The pistons have been ordered. Pretty exciting. Can't wait to see it as a fitted block in a few more weeks. Thanks for following along

06-27-2011, 09:37 PM
Well it's been awhile since I update this thread. The motor is in the home stretch and should be ready to fire this week on the dyno to break in the cam etc. I'm beyond pumped to get this thing home.

Here is a 409 very similar to my build that some of you may be interested in. Same block and heads with enlarged valve sizes. This motor used the single carb and intake for break in but ultimately got an Offy dual four and Eddy 500cfm carbs. My 409 will have a bit more compression than this in the YouTube video, more cam, better intake (ported Edelbrock dual 4), better headers (Jardine Tri Y vs the video motor's Hooker Super Comps) and a few other tricks thrown in.

I'll post pics and video on the dyno pulls with my motor as soon as it's done.



06-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Good rap to the exhaust and nice throttle response.

07-26-2011, 08:41 PM
here you go...it runs.....good!


07-26-2011, 09:54 PM
That is way cool!

07-27-2011, 06:50 AM
Did they have MSD boxes back in the day? hahaha

william schlosser
07-27-2011, 07:17 AM
She sounds real nice.

Prince Valiant
07-27-2011, 08:36 AM
very nice!

07-27-2011, 08:42 AM
No they didn't Chris. The motor really doesn't need the Msd box considering the distributor is a ready to run unit but I already had the box so if anything I get the benefit of the rpm limiter pills.

07-27-2011, 10:48 AM
Very nice. Sounds great!

07-27-2011, 11:05 AM
How much powa?

Prince Valiant
07-27-2011, 11:09 AM
How much powa?last I saw, a very healthy 473hp on the engine dyno....

07-27-2011, 01:23 PM
Valiant is correct...473hp and 462 lb ft torque

07-27-2011, 01:38 PM
fap fap fap fap sounds awesome

Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay
07-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Looking good J

07-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Valiant is correct...473hp and 462 lb ft torque

Awesome. Can't argue with over 1hp/ci.

I'll bet that thing is a BLAST to drive. Should be a very cool street car.

07-27-2011, 03:39 PM
Sounds good, time to bag it!

07-27-2011, 05:28 PM
Awesome. Can't argue with over 1hp/ci.

I'll bet that thing is a BLAST to drive. Should be a very cool street car.

Thanks Murray! Yea it definetely is making a lot of power considering. Now I just need to get the exhaust done and see if it truly is a blast to drive!

07-28-2011, 08:01 AM
No they didn't Chris. The motor really doesn't need the Msd box considering the distributor is a ready to run unit but I already had the box so if anything I get the benefit of the rpm limiter pills.

Hide it then, or something. Get the 100% nostalgia, haha.

Looks awesome man! So cool to see the progress being made!

I may have missed it, but what's the rear gear in it now? (prays 4.30's)

07-28-2011, 09:24 AM
Rear 3:73 IIRC

07-28-2011, 05:17 PM
all new third member with Eaton Posi, Richmond 3.73s, Aubrey Bruneau Enterprises Billet bearing cap girdles, bearings, ARP hardware etc etc