View Full Version : Generator to Alternator Conversion, how do yah do it?
I installed a Pioneer CD player into my Caddy on monday, and my caddy's generator does NOT like it one bit. This ole 30 amp slug isnt doing any better then 5 amps, and is no longer sufficient to power my car. I need to convert to an alternator, but I am not soo sure as to where I should look for info or advice. If anyone here has any or knows where I could find some, please share :thumbsup
I did a search on google but couldn't find much info for mounting the alternator, or wiring it for this car. Alot of VW info, though :durr
Prince Valiant
06-09-2005, 11:31 PM
What year caddy is that again? I know the swap used to be done all the time. It's not the worst job in the world, but it can be tedious.
I'd look to some forums dedicated to classic cars in genera, or classic caddy's...there's alot of neat tricks people are doing to get modern electronics into older cars, and these will be the guys that know.
Might not want to tell them that you are "slammin" it and installing hydraulics though, lol.l
DocDave
06-10-2005, 08:39 AM
My suggestion. Loose the old fashion wiring and upgrade to a one wire alternator. I'm sure someone makes a cool mounting for a new style alternator. With a one wire alternator you run a wire to the battery and your done, everything is done internally. You can find them in Jegs and Summit; don't use a stock GM style alternator, they still require additional wiring. Automotive electrical work is a specialty of mine, if you need help let me know. I have a full plate these next couple weeks but I am sure I could lend a couple of hours to help out.
BTW what year is the caddy, I might be able to find a wiring diagram.
Corvette Jabo
06-10-2005, 12:00 PM
My suggestion. Loose the old fashion wiring and upgrade to a one wire alternator. I'm sure someone makes a cool mounting for a new style alternator. With a one wire alternator you run a wire to the battery and your done, everything is done internally. You can find them in Jegs and Summit; don't use a stock GM style alternator, they still require additional wiring. Automotive electrical work is a specialty of mine, if you need help let me know. I have a full plate these next couple weeks but I am sure I could lend a couple of hours to help out.
BTW what year is the caddy, I might be able to find a wiring diagram.
Right on, I agree. Call Jeff Johnson at the All Star Co. He does starters, generators and alternators. He made me a 1 wire alternator for one of my Vette's . He could even test your generator and external regulator for free. He has helped me in the past on Model T's, Fire Trucks, Vetts....you name it. He is in hales corners right behind Culvers on Janesville Rd (10981 W. Forest Home Ave., Hales Corners, WI 53130) 414-427-7991
Jabo
Corvette Jabo
06-10-2005, 12:04 PM
To save allot of time he could just test the generator and regulator, it may be something simple and could have you back up within 1 day. If you go to an alternator your going to have to come up with the brackets. I have a generator in my 62 Vette and have not had an issue since he went through it.
Jabo
This car is going to be filled with electronics, that 30 amp generator wont cut it even if I wanted to replace it. Replacement generators are only 80 bucks for the car.
Its a 62 for those asking.
And I know I will need to make brackets, and I WAS considering a one wire alternator but I have no idea where the stock wires gotta go then, straight to the battery?
Also, if I cant get a HIGH output 1 wire, I will need to run dual alternators.
I think I can probably make a bracket out of the generator bracket. Can trace it, and write a program to cut a new bracket with the stock bolt hole locations and a spacer then the bolt holes for the new alternator(s).
I will give him a call on monday and see what kinda suggestions he can offer. Thanks for the advice thus far :thumbsup
DocDave
06-11-2005, 09:17 AM
All those wires you speak of can go bye, bye. Look at the diagram I attached. The area of wires in the red boxed area are trash. Then you simply connect the alternator to the battery and don't use the generator warning lt wire (brown one).
All those wires you speak of can go bye, bye. Look at the diagram I attached. The area of wires in the red boxed area are trash. Then you simply connect the alternator to the battery and don't use the generator warning lt wire (brown one).
In that diagram, the wire from the alternator to the batterys goes to the voltage regulator. I just bybass that then, and remove the voltage regulator then correct?
DocDave
06-15-2005, 12:42 PM
In that diagram, the wire from the alternator to the batterys goes to the voltage regulator. I just bybass that then, and remove the voltage regulator then correct?
Correct. But only with a true 'one wire' alternator. Like I mentioned before GM stock alternators still require additional wiring. Make sure you use a aftermarket one wire. Good Luck. :thumbsup
PS sorry for the late reply.
Correct. But only with a true 'one wire' alternator. Like I mentioned before GM stock alternators still require additional wiring. Make sure you use a aftermarket one wire. Good Luck. :thumbsup
PS sorry for the late reply.
No worrys
I have been shopping around online for a one wire, but they arent as easy to find as I had thought.
Any idea on how to make a bracket for it, or atleast a template for a bracket? I was playing with the stock generator bracket, but I am kinda stumped
DocDave
06-15-2005, 08:40 PM
I don't know what size motor you have but I have a low mount one on my Big Block that is simple and works great. I will be at the Borchardt's (http://www.borchardtspeed.com/carshow.htm) car show Sunday if you want to stop and look at it.
Corvette Jabo
06-16-2005, 06:43 AM
No worrys
I have been shopping around online for a one wire, but they arent as easy to find as I had thought.
Any idea on how to make a bracket for it, or atleast a template for a bracket? I was playing with the stock generator bracket, but I am kinda stumped
As I said "Call Jeff Johnson at the All Star Co. He is in hales corners right behind Culvers on Janesville Rd (10981 W. Forest Home Ave., Hales Corners, WI 53130) 414-427-7991". He made one for my car. He converted one for me into a 1 wire and could set it up for the desired output. If you go to a bone yard and nab an alternator, brackets and everything els he would be able to convert the alternator to a 1 wire.
Jabo
I don't know what size motor you have but I have a low mount one on my Big Block that is simple and works great. I will be at the Borchardt's (http://www.borchardtspeed.com/carshow.htm) car show Sunday if you want to stop and look at it.
I'll definatly be at the show, I'll look for yah.
I picked up my alternator from my shop today and took it home to place with it. Removed the generator from the car, and BWAM after tinkering around, I think I found a way to mount it. The lower generator bolted to a bracket that bolts to the header. If I mill off the top of this bracket, remove the studs holding the bracket to the header and countersink a bolt into the top of it - the lower bolt can attach to that bracket and the upper bolt can attach to the stock generator slider that was used to tension then tighten. Not sure if it will work yet, but I dont see why not. I am going to machine the piece tomorrow and see what happens.
As I said "Call Jeff Johnson at the All Star Co. He is in hales corners right behind Culvers on Janesville Rd (10981 W. Forest Home Ave., Hales Corners, WI 53130) 414-427-7991". He made one for my car. He converted one for me into a 1 wire and could set it up for the desired output. If you go to a bone yard and nab an alternator, brackets and everything els he would be able to convert the alternator to a 1 wire.
Jabo
I was playing with the alternator tonight, and I think all I have to do is cap off the black wire and run the red wire with the post wire to make it act as a one wire. I have to read up on it to be sure though, since that MIGHT bypass the internal voltage regulator ( which would be no good ). I am trying to do it myself to save money, but be able to say " I did it " when people ask. If worse comes to worse, I will definatly be giving your guy a call. The info is much appreciated.
Thanks guys! Hopefully by the middle of next week it will be back on the road again, until I rip the front suspension apart ofcourse :headbang
All those wires you speak of can go bye, bye. Look at the diagram I attached. The area of wires in the red boxed area are trash. Then you simply connect the alternator to the battery and don't use the generator warning lt wire (brown one).
Alright, this diagram was super helpful BUT I am going to keep this GM alternator to use since it is already paid for and will do 200 amps. My buddy Steve thought he knew how to wire it up as a one wire, but cant find the info he thought he had at his house.
Do you know how to wire a regular alternator ( post on the rear, black and rd wire comming out the clip ) into the stock system? I am going to keep the voltage regulator too since I think the one in this alternator isnt working correctly. I say this because when I put it in the Cube van, the voltage gauge on teh dash read 18 volts and that was a bit high IMO.
Let me know what you think, adn thanks again for the input!
BTW: I couldn't find you at Borchardts, too many cars and not enough time that day! I was looking, though.
Top Fuel Tom
06-28-2005, 06:41 PM
To wire a standard GM Alt. Run a 10 gauge wire from the post on the back right to the battery cable on the starter. Run the wire from terminal #1 to the GEN light in your dash. The other side of the Gen light will go to a switched 12 volt source. If you don't have the Gen light in your dash, wire a small dash style light bulb in series with the other side going to a swithed 12 volt source. The wire from terminal #2 should be run to an unswitched 12 volt source. Most stock GM's will have this wire spliced into the 10 gauge wire somewhere on the way to the starter. A 3 wire alt. is better than an 1 wire alt. if your running a high load system. Why do you think GM never went to a true one wire system? It's not because they like to run two extra wires in all their cars. :thumbsup
To wire a standard GM Alt. Run a 10 gauge wire from the post on the back right to the battery cable on the starter. Run the wire from terminal #1 to the GEN light in your dash. The other side of the Gen light will go to a switched 12 volt source. If you don't have the Gen light in your dash, wire a small dash style light bulb in series with the other side going to a swithed 12 volt source. The wire from terminal #2 should be run to an unswitched 12 volt source. Most stock GM's will have this wire spliced into the 10 gauge wire somewhere on the way to the starter. A 3 wire alt. is better than an 1 wire alt. if your running a high load system. Why do you think GM never went to a true one wire system? It's not because they like to run two extra wires in all their cars. :thumbsup
From the alternator to the starter? Why would it go to the starter and then to the battery?
Also, those wires are available at the stock voltage regulator. So I would hook up 1 to left prong on the regulator and 2 to the right prong ont eh voltage regulator, and then run 10 awg from the post to the voltage regulator, and then from their it goes to the starter I believe? Bah, I have absolutely NO room to work on the car where it is sitting right now :fire
Top Fuel Tom
06-28-2005, 10:31 PM
GM ran it to the starter because thats where the main battery cable hooked up to. You can run it right to the battery if you want. If you want you could connect terminal #2 right to the main post on the alt. to make it simple. And then run terminal #1 to the GEN light circuit. I can't remember the terminal order on the regulator so I can't answer that part of the question. But at this point all you need to hook up to is the Gen light circuit.
GM ran it to the starter because thats where the main battery cable hooked up to. You can run it right to the battery if you want. If you want you could connect terminal #2 right to the main post on the alt. to make it simple. And then run terminal #1 to the GEN light circuit. I can't remember the terminal order on the regulator so I can't answer that part of the question. But at this point all you need to hook up to is the Gen light circuit.
On page one there is a schematic, but I think I will try your suggestion tomorrow ( assuming it isn't raining )
And if it works, I owe you an Oscar burger :thumbsup DocDave, you too :headbang
Top Fuel Tom
06-29-2005, 06:39 AM
On that schematic, the brown wire is for the Gen Light and the black one goes to the battery. Make sure you disconnect the brown wire from the old regulator before hooking it up to the Alt.
DocDave
06-29-2005, 09:38 AM
Yeh, what he said. Make sure you disconnect the old voltage regulator! the new alternator has one built into the back, if you connect both you could be in trouble. :wooo
In regards to the 18V output. Did you have the terminal #1 and #2 wires connected? If you did not the voltage regulator won't work correctly. If you did you might have a bad voltage Regulator. There are not that expensive and a fairly easy to replace. But you have to take the alternator apart.
Yeh, what he said. Make sure you disconnect the old voltage regulator! the new alternator has one built into the back, if you connect both you could be in trouble. :wooo
In regards to the 18V output. Did you have the terminal #1 and #2 wires connected? If you did not the voltage regulator won't work correctly. If you did you might have a bad voltage Regulator. There are not that expensive and a fairly easy to replace. But you have to take the alternator apart.
They were connected, thats why I think it is shot. Cant I just use the voltage regulator thats in the caddy for now? I've never taken an alternator apart, so I wouldn't know where to begin once inside of one.
DocDave
06-29-2005, 11:31 AM
They were connected, thats why I think it is shot. Cant I just use the voltage regulator thats in the caddy for now? I've never taken an alternator apart, so I wouldn't know where to begin once inside of one.
I do not know of a way you could use the old regulator, because you would have to somehow bypass the one inside the alternator to allow it to still charge.
Changing he regulator in a GM 3-wire is not that hard from what I remember. I think you just unbolt the rear cover, unplug the old regulator, plug the new one in, and replace cover.
I do not know of a way you could use the old regulator, because you would have to somehow bypass the one inside the alternator to allow it to still charge.
Changing he regulator in a GM 3-wire is not that hard from what I remember. I think you just unbolt the rear cover, unplug the old regulator, plug the new one in, and replace cover.
No special tools required? Where do I get a regulator from, and how can I check this one to see if it is any good?
Top Fuel Tom
06-29-2005, 06:28 PM
No special tools required? Where do I get a regulator from, and how can I check this one to see if it is any good?
You can get the Alt. tested at most of the chain type parts stores like Autozone, ect. They can also sell you a new regulator. To change it split the case by talking out the four screws that go around the outside of the case. The regulator is on the rear half of the case. If you buy a new regulator you'll know which part to replace. The only trick you need to know is, when it's time to put the case back together, you will need to push two toothpicks through the holes in the back of the case to hold the brushes in their holders. Once the case is back together pull the toothpicks out and your ready to go.
You can get the Alt. tested at most of the chain type parts stores like Autozone, ect. They can also sell you a new regulator. To change it split the case by talking out the four screws that go around the outside of the case. The regulator is on the rear half of the case. If you buy a new regulator you'll know which part to replace. The only trick you need to know is, when it's time to put the case back together, you will need to push two toothpicks through the holes in the back of the case to hold the brushes in their holders. Once the case is back together pull the toothpicks out and your ready to go.
Great explanation but we got it done before I read this heh. Advanced Auto couldn't test it, so i bought a new regulator ( 20 bucks :wooo ) and got her back in the car.
Is there any chance you'll have a few minutes to swing by tomorrow evening? I am having troubles figuring out how to wire this new alternator up. I am looking at the voltage regulator and it has 3 wires that go from there to the generator, but only 1 that goes from there to the battery and thats it. I dont see a wire that goes to the gen light or anywhere else for that matter?
On a side note: Got the suspension back together tonight and it is ALOT faster :headbang BUT the drivers side is leaking so I fiddeled with it for a minute and got it better but I think it is still leaking. I'll find out tomorrow when I check the gauges I guess :yawn:
DocDave
06-30-2005, 09:24 AM
Is there any chance you'll have a few minutes to swing by tomorrow evening?
Where At? I will be out and about tonight. I might have sometime to swing by.
Where At? I will be out and about tonight. I might have sometime to swing by.
West Allis, between lincoln and national on 99th st hit me up on the cellular if you have time.
(414) 531-4552
I'll be out there workin on the suspension, bustin tail so I can drive it this weekend :thumbsup I got a leaker somewhere, ahhhHHH!
So, now all I have to connect is the 1 and 2 wires. I THINK 1 is just constant so I can jump that to the stud, and 2 is the switchable power? So that would go to the ignition? I just took out the external voltage regulator and said f the wires, I'll figure it out without um. I think I am pretty close to having this thing on the road again, the battery isolater is all wired up and clicks with the ignition so I should be ready to go after I find the ignition wire up front :wooo That sound about right? Your still more then welcome to help me hunt it down, hehe
-pOrk
DocDave
07-01-2005, 07:43 AM
Sorry I couldn't make it last night. I will give you a call if I get a chance this weekend. Sounds like you got things wired up somewhat correctly... I am a little worried about that #2 wire however. Like Tom mentioned earlier, that connection gets grounded when something goes wrong with the alternator. So it would end up blowing the fuse on the switched curcuit you are running from. I would put a light bulb in series with the connection to prevent this from happening. The light will only light if something is wrong with the alt.
Top Fuel Tom
07-01-2005, 06:56 PM
So, now all I have to connect is the 1 and 2 wires. I THINK 1 is just constant so I can jump that to the stud, and 2 is the switchable power? So that would go to the ignition? I just took out the external voltage regulator and said f the wires, I'll figure it out without um. I think I am pretty close to having this thing on the road again, the battery isolater is all wired up and clicks with the ignition so I should be ready to go after I find the ignition wire up front :wooo That sound about right? Your still more then welcome to help me hunt it down, hehe
-pOrk
Go back and read post #18. Thats what you need to do.
Go back and read post #18. Thats what you need to do.
Got er done, and I got a whipping 10 volts. My alternator is poop, I threw in a buddys ( LS1-S10 on s10forum, known as Hot Rod Steve ) 100 amper and she went right up to 12.4
So the alternator shop is gonna see oen burnt pOrk tomorrow morning if they are open, sons a bitchez
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