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View Full Version : TurboProbe Dyno Numbers???



turboprobe
06-05-2005, 10:20 AM
I put my car on the dyno at NCR Performance, Matt Maas's shop, and we decided to do a little tuning and testing. Turns out that I am fairly rich, which is good, and running a 12:1 a/f ratio across the whole power band. So, I guess your wondering what kind of numbers I put down.

On The Dyno (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/561000-561999/561030_17_full.jpg)

270 WHP (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/561000-561999/561030_18_full.jpg)

Keep in mind, this is to the wheels, and I'm only running like 7psi. So, with a little more tweaking, and a little more boost, 300 whp is not far away. :)

Nick

PS: Ill post the video as soon as I can....

turbogarrett
06-05-2005, 10:59 AM
12.1 is probably right where you'd want to be at. Nice #'s, it's always cool to see quick sport compact that is not a honda. Now get some tires and take it to the track!

Berettaspeed
06-05-2005, 12:57 PM
nice #s


12.1 is probably right where you'd want to be at. Nice #'s, it's always cool to see quick sport compact that is not a honda. Now get some tires and take it to the track!

X2 im glad its something different

Cjburn
06-05-2005, 07:28 PM
Real nice numbers and the tune looks spot on! It's going to take 9.5 psi to make 301whp according to the efficiency equation. Since you are running such a large compressor, it's actually more efficient running more boost, so you probably will be making more power per psi than the equation makes. Just so you know making horsepower per psi should be a linear equation off of a base run, but (in your case) where a turbo hasn't even gotten to it's main efficiency islands yet, it generally does beat the equation, assuming you run into no problems (flow limits on other parts).

Car Guy
06-05-2005, 07:29 PM
I'm not trying to start a shouting match here but by the results posted it looks like a few might have come close to putting their entire 'foot inside mouth'. I must admit, I was skeptical also but I've learned to hold back comments unless knowing exactly how the outcome is going to be. Those are GREAT numbers (and not to take away from yours) but I've seen turbo'd probes make a lot more power, so I know it's possible. But like always it's all about the setup and most times that is the #1 secret to making power.......

Congrats turboprobe, hope to see you around!!!

turboprobe
06-06-2005, 12:47 AM
yeah, i know that i can make more hp. my friend matt has 486hp to the wheels in his turbo probe. but he also has stand alone fuel managment, among other things. as far as hitting the mark, i was planning on getting a manual boost controller, and running 10psi. that way id hit 300, and then could turn it up or down as needed. and yes, the piping i have isnt the greatest, but itll do for now. when i decide to upgrade, the turbo will reside in the a/c compressor spot, which is on the front left side of the motor, which means less piping, which means more power. so we see if i ever get that far. all i want is 300 hp, and a decent track time. just to prove to myself that i could do it. and also like others say, to do something different. :) but thanks for the compliments guys.

nick

Al
06-09-2005, 02:34 AM
I am wondering what would happen if you tried to run a higher boost at the lower RPMs. The reason I am wondering is because the heat loss due to conduction of heat with the cylinder wall and head will be greater at the lower RPMs becasue of the longer period of time for the air to cool, which will keep the air and fuel farther from higher temperatures and avoid detonation. Also, the lower rpm will give the injector more time to fire fuel into the cylinder. In the end, you could have a flatter hp curve.

If you do not want to try this at max boost, try to add more boost relative to a lower setting for normal peak boost. If you are running 5 psi, try to run 6 psi at an rpm before your peak hp. To be sure that everything is in working order, pay close attention to the exhaust gas temperature and compare it to other areas of the SAME HP, not boost or torque.

Bee
07-05-2005, 12:03 PM
Real nice numbers and the tune looks spot on! It's going to take 9.5 psi to make 301whp according to the efficiency equation. Since you are running such a large compressor, it's actually more efficient running more boost, so you probably will be making more power per psi than the equation makes. Just so you know making horsepower per psi should be a linear equation off of a base run, but (in your case) where a turbo hasn't even gotten to it's main efficiency islands yet, it generally does beat the equation, assuming you run into no problems (flow limits on other parts).

CJ you are pretty right!!! hehe!!!! :D

Bee
07-05-2005, 12:07 PM
so 9psi did about 300whp??? if so that is pretty low considering it's 6cyls. Alot of the 4 bangers I do get high 200whp at 9-10psi. Either way 300whp is 300whp at whatever boost level it's still nice to have that power. The setup with 2700lb should run mid 12sec. The reason why you wouldn't would be traction... I've seen Probes have tons of trouble hooking up. don't know why, but they just don't hook so good even with slicks. maybe a coincidence!!! good luck at the track bro..... :thumbsup

Syclone0044
07-05-2005, 03:37 PM
so 9psi did about 300whp??? if so that is pretty low considering it's 6cyls. Alot of the 4 bangers I do get high 200whp at 9-10psi. Don't you think the RPM at which peak HP occurred, is an incredibly relevant detail not being mentioned here? :confused

Judging by the Probe's dyno, he made peak HP at 6200 RPM. I'd say it's very likely the 4 bangers you built made peak HP significantly higher than that.. :shades How about comparing the torque to torque? Just having some technical debate with ya ;)

Bee
07-08-2005, 04:00 PM
Don't you think the RPM at which peak HP occurred, is an incredibly relevant detail not being mentioned here? :confused

Judging by the Probe's dyno, he made peak HP at 6200 RPM. I'd say it's very likely the 4 bangers you built made peak HP significantly higher than that.. :shades How about comparing the torque to torque? Just having some technical debate with ya ;)

you are correct there syclone no doubt. The probe will make 300whp at a lower rpm and more torque. The reason why a honda/acura same weight as probe(2600-2700lb) 4cyl with the same 300whp w/ less torque would run close or even better then the probe would yield to no other then the gear ratio. Most of the cars I do depending on the car weight and size slicks I can gear them differently for best results!!! Most Vtec hondas/acuras come with very close ratio gears therefore even if the smaller 4cyls need to spin up the rpms to make power....it's still fine since it's gearing keeps the BIG power on tap in the next gear........ That's the reason why 4cyl fwd turbo are so deadly at a downshift @ high rpms!!! Most guys in here know that don't lie!!! hehe!!! :D

Hence, in my wife's blk civic h.b. turbo with 6psi ls/vtec I was already beating 95% of whoever I downshift-raced.........and don't go flaming people I don't race cavalier's w/ type R sticker, camaro V6s, ghettoed-out hondas, DSM stock boosted turbos etc...... I did race a syclone(maybe it was you 11.7-12.0s) and hung pretty good to about 100mph or so!!! :thumbsup

Bee
07-08-2005, 04:12 PM
who's the guy with a V6 Probe that ran 11.0@130ish????

Now that was one fast Probe.... haven't seen him in a LOOONG time...
Last I saw it was on boost and NOS... :wow VEry big slicks too!!!
One of the cars that truely impressed me!!! He was out at IMPORT wars for like 4-5times and couldn't get the car to run good... Then one event he came out and busted almost 10sec!!!! bow doooown!!!! :headbang

I think most of the time, fast cars are down so long since it takes big time money to keep them up-to-par!!!! :D

junk mx6 no rly
07-13-2005, 01:02 PM
dont mean to jack your post but is your probe the silverish grey looking one?ive also got a turbo probe well from the factory im working on getting a t3/t4 on it. :alcoholic

Al
07-13-2005, 11:20 PM
so 9psi did about 300whp??? if so that is pretty low considering it's 6cyls. Alot of the 4 bangers I do get high 200whp at 9-10psi.

But is this a comparison of a 2.5l 6 cyl to a 1.6l 4 cyl


200 = 300
1.6 2.5

the displacement is a big player here.

Blackhawk01
07-19-2005, 06:15 AM
Alot of the 4 bangers I do get high 200whp at 9-10psi.

:headbang Mine gets around 244 @10psi, and 271 @12psi and it's only a 1.3 liter.

It takes a bigger turbo and more boost to fill larger cylinders. Therefore, you'll gain a lot more power in small engine applications, because your pressure is that much greater in a small area.
My bike @ 33psi puts down over 550+rwhp, and @ 36psi would push nearly 600. With stock bore, stock stroke, stock cams, and a stock head, that's pretty impressive. Add turbo grind cams, a little head clean-up, and I'd see hp numbers well into the 620 range...

Syclone0044
07-19-2005, 10:21 AM
Do you have a dyno sheet of your bike's 550rwhp run? What peak HP RPM and what was the torque? How fast does that bike run?? :drool:

Blackhawk01
07-19-2005, 04:57 PM
I'll try to find a picture that I took of the dyno sheet.
Peak HP is made around 10,000rpm, and torque is a hair shy of 300#.

I can't tell you what it runs, then everybody will know... :chair:
Just kidding I run with a clocks on all the time, and race it in a series.


Best ET is an 8.50, best speed is 172.
But that will change this weekend. :banana

Blackhawk01
07-19-2005, 05:12 PM
Here you go.

http://www.psychobike.com/iB_html/uploads/post-1-79710-install_weekend2_002.jpg


is 431.8hp 235.6# @22psi
is 461.3hp 248.1# @26psi
is 514.2hp 273.9# @29psi
is 553hp 296.0# @33psi

Blackhawk01
07-19-2005, 08:10 PM
Here's the machine...


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Blackhawk01/pics6.jpg


:wow

Should go very, very low 8's maybe even 7's if everything goes perfect on one complete pass.

twicks69
07-19-2005, 10:21 PM
My god, that is the most beautiful, scary, crazy bike--AWESOME!!!

Freakin kick ass numbers--is that the GT35R turbo kit?

Good luck at the track; I hope that you get some clean passes in!

Blackhawk01
07-20-2005, 06:01 AM
The turbo is a Innovative GT61 dual bb.
It's slightly larger than the 35R, supports more hp, and at a better efficiency.

Teufelhunden
07-20-2005, 09:16 AM
Why is the AMS 1000 boost controller unique from all the others?

twicks69
07-20-2005, 09:39 AM
I followed blackhawk's information back over to the Viper Alley board, where there was a discussion in the past about the AMS 1000.

http://www.viperalley.com/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/515366/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/7/vc/1

Also, BlackHawk--Paolo Castellano sounds really familiar--oh yeah...the Ultimate Street Car Challenge Viper.
As for the turbo selection, :headbang :thumbsup --nice.

Holy crap compressor map!! Fantastic efficiency throughout the pressure ranges with very good shaft velocities for a BB center cartridge!

Syclone0044
07-20-2005, 10:58 AM
Looks/sounds great man!! :thumbsup Planning on going to GLD any time in the next 2 months?? It would be cool to see the bike run. Maybe you can give the turbo snowmobile a run for his money!! :D (I seen one run 8.20's @ 168)

Blackhawk01
07-20-2005, 05:40 PM
Why is the AMS 1000 boost controller unique from all the others?

MoparScott,

Current Engine Management Systems or Boost Controllers monitor actual manifold pressure, and then make changes to the wastegate based on this information.

The AMS uses forward feedback technology- it monitors gate pressure on the control side of the gate and makes changes based on this.
Since the wastegate is ultimately what controls boost it should be the number one focus in boost control. It does not hunt, search, or wander. It also has 100 ramps per stage of boost so you have more control than anything out there.

The controller also creates its ramp tables on the fly, so varying pressures on supply air side does not affect it. It samples the first 2 clicks of the solenoids and checks to see how much air the sensor sees, how long it took and what it needs to do in order to get to the specified target in the required amount of time. It will then create this table and make adjustments as needed.

All in all considering 6 stages(in either Gear Position,Time Based, or Shift Input modes. Multiplied by the 100 ramp rates per stage = 600 points of pressure control. I switched from an Innovative MSBC, and immediately started seeing results.

Blackhawk01
07-20-2005, 05:43 PM
I followed blackhawk's information back over to the Viper Alley board, where there was a discussion in the past about the AMS 1000.

http://www.viperalley.com/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/515366/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/7/vc/1

Also, BlackHawk--Paolo Castellano sounds really familiar--oh yeah...the Ultimate Street Car Challenge Viper.
As for the turbo selection, :headbang :thumbsup --nice.

Holy crap compressor map!! Fantastic efficiency throughout the pressure ranges with very good shaft velocities for a BB center cartridge!


Thanks. I have to give props to my turbo builder on that one. He worked a lot with Innovative to get what turbo he wanted for his kits, and their purpose.

Blackhawk01
07-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Looks/sounds great man!! :thumbsup Planning on going to GLD any time in the next 2 months?? It would be cool to see the bike run. Maybe you can give the turbo snowmobile a run for his money!! :D (I seen one run 8.20's @ 168)


Yeah, I was just at GLD last week. Probably will be around for the Slick-Only Night on August 25. Haven't decided yet for sure because there is a race at Byron that Sat & Sun. We'll see...

I'd definitely out-trap the sled, but the Et's will be pretty hard to beat, unless I put a perfect run down.

Teufelhunden
07-20-2005, 10:00 PM
Still have the Viper? BTW Jim (aka MoparJim who bought your S/C last year) is on this board...

Blackhawk01
07-20-2005, 10:18 PM
If the question is geared toward me...

I do not own a viper, and never had one.
I went on the boards over there to chime in about a twin turbo viper beating a turbo hayabusa in a roll-on race.

Teufelhunden
08-03-2005, 04:15 PM
Best ET is an 8.50, best speed is 172.
But that will change this weekend. :bananaDid you make it to the track Blackhawk? Any new times or maybe a video? :D

I was talking to some of the guys here at work about your bike and dyno numbers. There was a lot of this :wooo when I said 550whp. I had to show them your dyno sheet post. :thumbsup

Bee
08-03-2005, 04:20 PM
nice bike....better yet nice hp!!!! :thumbsup

Blackhawk01
08-06-2005, 09:34 AM
Did you make it to the track Blackhawk? Any new times or maybe a video? :D

I was talking to some of the guys here at work about your bike and dyno numbers. There was a lot of this :wooo when I said 550whp. I had to show them your dyno sheet post. :thumbsup

It went 8.40 @172. Tried to turn it up a little more in the front half, but all it did was wheelie like crazy. Made a few adjustments that we thought would allow the bike to accelerate harder without the massive wheelies. I got the bike to the starting line for my last timed run, did my burnout, staged the bike, and took off. Only problem was I forgot to flip the activation switch on the boost controller! So when I left the line, the bike pretty much went flat(no boost).
That was that. Still a good weekend, picked up another .10, and there's plenty of room for more...

Blackhawk01
08-06-2005, 09:49 AM
got no video, but I did get a few pics... here's one of them

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Blackhawk01/mirphoto.jpg

WhatsADSM
08-08-2005, 10:51 AM
got no video, but I did get a few pics... here's one of them

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Blackhawk01/mirphoto.jpg

Damn that thing looks good. :headbang