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View Full Version : Old School Racing: Who's In?



Prince Valiant
03-29-2005, 10:24 PM
Okay...amongst the old school guys (I'll include any of the G-bods as well) which of you guys are looking for some fun runs? Personally, I enjoy seeing the old school stuff doing what they were intended to do...race :thumbsup

Who'd like to go down to GLD, or even oscars for some bench racing and maybe more?

GRNDNL
03-29-2005, 11:38 PM
I'm in with the GS (if Mandy lets me take it :chair: ) for a day at GLD....... :thumbsup

Korndogg
03-29-2005, 11:57 PM
if i can ever get my car running right...then im in..

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 08:15 AM
I'm thinking a good saturday in may would be ideal...if not, tuesday nights are always great for getting in lots of runs...

what issues are you having Korndogg?

Korndogg
03-30-2005, 11:29 AM
http://www.brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7086

Nix
03-30-2005, 12:14 PM
Also count me in if everyone is cool with that. Whats the cutoff for "old school"? Nick

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 12:31 PM
nick, you definitely qualify as "old school"


ok I got to take out the 68 yesterday finally. I noticed a little problem. When Im driving normally its pretty much fine but when i floor it, the car shakes from front to back (not side to side) and the engine sounds like its got a friggen rev limiter on it. I dont know when the car last had a tune up but I am pretty worried here. I dont know if it is the engine or the tranny doing this. I swapped the tranny last year to a 700r4 out of a 88 IROC.

Im going to do a tune up on it no matter what so what do you guys suggest for wires/plugs? I want to just buy a set of wires. I dont really feel like making my own.
So did you change the wires or tune it yet? Was it just shaking or is there an actual backfire?

"Feels like a rev limiter" how so? Does this only happen at a certain rpm, or just when you get on the gas?

When was the last time you drove it before hand?

Maybe I can come by and take a look at it and give a couple of recommendations....

animal
03-30-2005, 01:28 PM
I'd be down for that if I could ever get my car done... for every step forward I meet two steps back it would seem.

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 01:31 PM
How is it coming animal? Need some help? I'm always willing to come in and lend a hand or two...

animal
03-30-2005, 03:09 PM
Well due to laziness, and some other factors I never took apart that shortblock I was working on til this past winter. Then I found it... it was the engine that was never started yet somehow had scored bearings, scored -.020 crank, scored main bearings, rods that were hand ground on and never rebalanced or shot peened, rod bolts that looked like they were installed with vice grips and a jackhammer, and where he pressed in the wrist pins the rods were dark blue and burned half way up the rod. Not to mention marks from valves in two of the pistons, the heads with 2 bent valves, and the wrong cam eccentric that damn near wore a hole in the cam cover. I swear, there was not one part of this engine at all that was not put together wrong or messed up royally... well besides the heads themselves... they weren't craked or anything. I had the heads all done up with 1.94/1.60 valves and a pretty nice port job. They're respectable now, not afr's be any means but they'll serve my purpose pretty well for now.

I don't think I can even trust that block anymore without a flux, hot tank, and re-hone, if it needs to be cut again it's junk since it's already .040 over and the old windsors couldn't really go more than that... so I've been told.

Basically to get the whole thing back together, with rebalance, cutting the crank, doing all the block prep work over, bearings, rings, and etc hardware it'll prolly end up being aroun $800 when it's all said and done just to have a factory-ish rebuilt shortblock. Looking at prices of 5.0 stroker shortblocks there's just no reason for me to sink that cash in such a stocker shortblock. So now I'm looking for some local places that build 5.0 shortblocks and such. DSS makes a really nice one but it's a overly pricey solution to the goals I'm trying to accomplish right now.

I was also entertaining putting all my stuff on the 289 that's in the car right now and using it that way for the summer.

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 03:31 PM
Why not do that? It's a very fun way to get a handle on the older stuff...and the great thing is, it doesn't have to be perfect. If it turns out to be a crappy combo, oh well! New one is upcoming anyways!

I don't think I'd worry about the block you've got too much...sure, magnafluxing is always a good idea, and since new rings are going in at a minimum (with bearings/etc) of course a honing is needed as well. Hot tanking wouldn'thurt, since it almost sounds like they tried to start the motor w/o oil or something ( :goof ) and you'll likely need new cam bearings anyways. Without looking for gouges in the crank, you could probably get away with just polishing that too...otherwise reman/machined cranks generally run ~120-150 bucks, resizing each rod should be less than 10 bucks a piece, new pins and pressed on for a little more...you can get great pistons with more compression for around 150 bucks...I would estimate about 500-600bucks for all the stuff you need, worst case scenario...

If you do stick with the 289, throw the good heads (maybe mill them down to get the CR up though) on there, and just go with a smaller cam then what was planned with the 351. That's the great thing about that 289's 4 inch bore...don't have to worry about valve shrouding, even with big ole 2.02's on there...

BUT, you've got to run it as a stock 289 first though...have to see where it all started. My best with the stock 318/2.94 gears was 16.7, without the tailpipe....and was 17.1 with tailpipe and a catalytic converter :eek:

animal
03-30-2005, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't dare take that thing down the 1/4 yet... I'd prolly be laughed off the track. I'll gtech it though, that'll be accurate enough I think for those purposes. The heads were already milled down. They're 58.7cc i think so that should bring CR up a bit for me over the stock 289 heads. As far as I've read the heads I have, done up and ported, etc should flow pretty decent especially for 289 ci's.

The 289 is a reman jasper engine bought in the late 80's so I'm kinda hoping they might've used a later model 5.0 block for it. If that's the case I could use a roller cam without that goofy spider thing. ASide from that I'll still need a 4 barrel intake as it has a 2bbl on it right now, some pushrods for use with the roller rockers, cam/lifters. Otherwise I am definately still weighing my options for shortblocks. That crank was scored pretty good. The good news is that i bought some resized reman stock 351 rods with arp bolts for $40 on ebay. I'd still have to get the pistons pressed in if I decide to go with that combo and then get it all balanced too. I was also entertaining, if the bores are still good getting a pre balanced 408 stroker kit for that block, but I'll have to see how it pans out... I've lost all confidence in any of the stuff that guy sold me. There was oil in that engine when I bought it... but no carbon or anything that would signify it ever ran... maybe turned with the starter but that's about it. Whatever was done, it was plenty to f*ck it up.

I do have a line on a used 306 dss block from a guy I know up north but I don't know if he wants to sell it yet. I'll let ya know unless it's some sweet sleeper combo ;) There's always the BB option :D

Korndogg
03-30-2005, 04:18 PM
it does it at high RPMs.

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 04:34 PM
animal: A four barrel intake shouldn't run you more than 25-50 bucks at a swap meet...

and c'mon! NEVER be embarassed to run ANYTHING down the 1/4 (I don't trust g-tech's...never will). I once took my old Ramcharger, 318ci, 2.94, and a NO rpm stall TC (:goof), with 320,000 miles on it and ran it at the track...I went a best of 18.7, but most runs were 19.0's!!! Funny thing was I actually won a race against an old 70's caddilac! Must have been a diesel :thumbsup Also ran a 66 belvedere with a 225 slant six...we actually put a nice ignition and header on it, and that was it. Pretty proud of the 17.8's and.9's it turned...it sounded killer too. The slowest was a friends bug that was in the 21.0's :rolf

Point being, even slow cars can be fun...no pressure means you can really work on your start line/etc...if you're slow, but cutting .510 lights, the real racers know what you've got. My guess is that you're probably in the mid 17's depending on gearing....maybe low 17's. If I am wrong, I'll by you a burrito at Moe's southwest grill.

Korndogg: What kind of distributer do you have?

animal
03-30-2005, 04:53 PM
Well that was my assumption as well, but I just went from the 2.73 open gears & 3 speed to a t-10 and 3.55 locker. I used to think my focus would roast the ole 2bbl 289 but the verdict is out with the gears going in... i never did get to drive it after the gear swap last year.

I have an old crappy 4bbl off a early 80's carb engine but I wanted to get at least a performer, air gap or something to put on there. I still in the back of my mind want to move up to a 9" rear, but they're real to find cheap with the tapered axle tubes that'll fit the 66 without a ton of modification. Same with the short tailshaft toploaders.

I have some interior mods to finish before I can really drive it down a 1/4 mile.. I'm way too tall for it I think. I have to get my left knee wedged between the door and steering wheel before i can even get my foot off the clutch. I have a smaller steering wheel that'll be going on and I want to modify the seat rails to push back an extra couple inches or something. It's a work in progress hehe.

Nix
03-30-2005, 06:25 PM
Then count me in partner, just let me know when and where I can be a part of this event! :thumbsup

Korndogg
03-30-2005, 07:04 PM
i have no clue what distributer i have lol. I havent really looked back there.

Prince Valiant
03-30-2005, 08:10 PM
we'll let me know when, and we can look at it...you may need new points, or better yet, an upgrade to an HEI distributer for problem free cruising.

Syclone0044
03-31-2005, 01:30 AM
Then I found it... it was the engine that was never started yet somehow had scored bearings, scored -.020 crank, scored main bearings, rods that were hand ground on and never rebalanced or shot peened, rod bolts that looked like they were installed with vice grips and a jackhammer, and where he pressed in the wrist pins the rods were dark blue and burned half way up the rod. Not to mention marks from valves in two of the pistons, the heads with 2 bent valves, and the wrong cam eccentric that damn near wore a hole in the cam cover. I swear, there was not one part of this engine at all that was not put together wrong or messed up royally...
Jesus H. Christ.. that's pretty horrible!!
Let me tell you this.... I absolutely, positively can Feel Your Pain... if you catch my drift.. :fire Some times it seems like you just can't trust ANYBODY to do ANYTHING nowadays unless you do it your goddamn self.. That's just the way I feel though.

Best of luck on your build! And I would definitely opt for the Big block option.. hell give me 1 reason why not! I bet you can't come up with a good one :) And I know you like that instant Big block low RPM mega-torque. :devil

animal
03-31-2005, 07:52 AM
I bet you can't come up with a good one :)

Actually yes I can... the only one there is:

I don't want to cut out the shock towers in my car :( It'd be worth considerably less if I did so. Wel plus I'd have to go find mustang II suspension parts. As much as I'd LOVE to do all that, those "big" small blocks can get just as many cubes now without the weight.

I've long considered selling this car to go get a 67 stang. They will take a BB no problem, but I do like my little sleeper-beige 2700lb coupe :D

But with what you said, it makes me kringe to think about buying anything used having to do with an engine again. This thing was just that bad. I'm seriously looking into throwing all my stuff on the 289. It should be good for pretty darn close to my horsepower goals. I just want to check out the one possibility i have on a used dss 306 from someone I trust.

DFJ6000
03-31-2005, 02:02 PM
sorry if im slow, but what kind of car are you doin this to animal? im definetely down for a race, but im guessin my ride wont be ready till late summer

animal
03-31-2005, 03:18 PM
factory curb weight was something like 2640lbs!

animal
03-31-2005, 03:29 PM
prince, sent u a pm.

Korndogg
04-01-2005, 01:00 AM
prince...where do you live by the way?

Corvette Jabo
04-01-2005, 01:51 PM
Point being, even slow cars can be fun...no pressure means you can really work on your start line/etc...if you're slow, but cutting .510 lights, the real racers know what you've got.

I agree

Here is my 2 cents. Take the block in, have it maged and mic'd to see what you really have. I have had great luck with AMS in West Allis. Steve from AMS had a 396 BB for sale here in the BCM Classifieds
http://www.brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6945

I also work on old chevy stuff, if you need help let me know and I will give it a look.

Jabo

Prince Valiant
04-01-2005, 03:24 PM
prince...where do you live by the way?N/W milwaukee, very close to menomonee falls...

Rocket Power
04-03-2005, 09:46 PM
I think I would be down for a get together of some sort.
I'd have to bring the G-bod if it's done because the 64 is in a lot of pieces :goof

The exhaust is finally done so just a few little things and it should be road ready. :headbang

Not show worthy by any means but I should be able to bust out some 15 sec ET's :goof :banana

70 Rat
04-04-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm in, I just need some help to push my car down the track. :crying
I will atleast put a seat in it.

Prince Valiant
04-04-2005, 11:45 PM
I'm in, I just need some help to push my car down the track. :crying
I will atleast put a seat in it. and i'll sit and YOU push!

What do you drive?

70 Rat
04-05-2005, 07:12 PM
Hey, wait, I NEED someone to push the car.lol.
It's a '70 Monte, factory 402. It's not even close to being done unfortunately. Hung the front fenders back on, but still have body work and have to decide what I want to do with the heads. I also still have a bunch of parts to buy.

GTSLOW
04-11-2005, 09:49 PM
Okay...amongst the old school guys (I'll include any of the G-bods as well) which of you guys are looking for some fun runs? Personally, I enjoy seeing the old school stuff doing what they were intended to do...race :thumbsup

Who'd like to go down to GLD, or even oscars for some bench racing and maybe more?

1976 Valiant a muscle car.........thats like calling an ls1 reliable :rolf

Prince Valiant
04-11-2005, 09:57 PM
Okay...amongst the old school guys (I'll include any of the G-bods as well) which of you guys are looking for some fun runs? Personally, I enjoy seeing the old school stuff doing what they were intended to do...race

Who'd like to go down to GLD, or even oscars for some bench racing and maybe more?1976 Valiant a muscle car.........thats like calling an ls1 reliable :rolf They must be trying some kind of new chemical for weaponry on you...I fail to even see "muscle car" in what I wrote. :confused

"Old School", which by virtually every definition imaginable, describes my valiant to a "T"

Hell, post after post, I've maintained that my car is by no means a "muscle car"...however, it does beat many "muscle cars" which is all I ever have intended it to do...

animal
04-11-2005, 10:20 PM
They must be trying some kind of new chemical for weaponry on you

I think it's that 6 cylinder syndrome or something ;)

Rat_Patrol
04-21-2005, 05:05 PM
I'm down, new shop is 31 miles SE if Union Grove.

Let me know!

RP

Prince Valiant
04-27-2005, 09:04 AM
Everyone...I think May 31st would be a good day as any :devil :headbang

FANAT1C
04-27-2005, 04:22 PM
If I get the bugs worked out by then do you guys mind another?
But I wont be able to beat on it too much. I need it drivable for the power tour that following weekend.

Prince Valiant
04-27-2005, 05:39 PM
If I get the bugs worked out by then do you guys mind another?
But I wont be able to beat on it too much. I need it drivable for the power tour that following weekend.
The more the merrier! :thumbsup

Powertour cars are just that much sweeter

Rat_Patrol
05-16-2005, 01:40 PM
Let's get something going here.

'Gonna need some land from you guys!

~Team Slopar