Next killing at GM ??

[Rocket Power]

Will it be Pontiac or Buick ?????
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2005032315440002961051&dt=20050323154400&w=RTR&coview





GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands


DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp., which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got."

Financial analysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.

Sales for both Pontiac and Buick have lagged in recent years. But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick, and Pontiac showrooms and they will have four new vehicles this year, including the Solstice roadster, Torrent SUV and the G6 mid-size coupe.

GM, which last week cut its earnings outlook for 2005 by as much as 80 percent, posted a 6 percent drop in U.S. sales for the first two months of the year. GM's U.S. market share fell to about 25 percent, far below its share of 27.5 percent for all of 2004.

Analysts said last week that GM's March sales could fall as much as 10 percent in March, while foreign automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp., Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. would continue to gain U.S. market share.

Lutz said GM will post relatively flat U.S. sales for March, however, performing much better than expected.

"I think we're going to be just about even, our best guess at this point. Either a percent over or a percent under," he said. "It is a substantially better month than January or February, and it looks like the whole industry is up."

"A HUGE ALBATROSS"

No details about an expected restructuring at GM, the largest private U.S. provider of health care, have emerged since it roiled markets with its warning last week.

But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.

And Lutz and Gary Cowger, GM's president for North America, spoke of possible demands for a cut in mounting health care benefits for the company's hourly union employees in remarks on the sidelines of the New York auto show on Wednesday.

An elimination of any one of GM's brands would likely mean plant closings and a shrinking of GM's hourly work force.

"An across-the-board competitive health care plan for salaried and hourly employees could literally save us billions," Cowger said. Health care costs, added Lutz, are "a huge albatross hanging over American industry today."

Lutz particularly acknowledged that the automaker, which will struggle to make a profit this year, faces challenges. But he said GM was "taking the necessary step to right this ship."

"Sure, we face short-term challenges, and this is not going to be a banner year," he said. "It's a difficult period of adjustment. But we will get through it."

He said some of GM's new cars, such as its Chevrolet Cobalt small car and the Pontiac G6 mid-size car, will post their best sales to date in March, and told the Morgan Stanley conference "I don't know where all the gloom and doom is coming from."

He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the Titanic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg."

[Lash]

Saab? Or maybe Olds.

[sriddccrocks]

olds is already gone, im guessin pontaic will go before buick, i mean old people need cars too lol :rolf

[fireguyrick]

olds is already gone, im guessin pontaic will go before buick, i mean old people need cars too lol :rolf


Picture Tiger in the all new Buick GTO or Solstice! LMAO

Rick

[Cryptic]

Buick wasnt a far cry from Olds

[lotsals1]

buick the only one who buys them are blue hairs --next time you are on the road if you see an old fart check out what they are driveing --99% buick century or a park ave --and or a crown vic.
So my guess is Buick

[theavenger333]

buick all the way, they are just like olds. plus GM can still keep their market, with cadillac. pontiac is actually looking up for once it seems.

[Al]

GM has been doing a shitty job of coming up with new cars lately.

Cobalt SS = weak entry car
Buick = that styling is a decade old
Pontiac = that G6 does not offer anything special in its price range.


Tips for GM:
Bring back RWD, but because 90% of the people out there are not competant drivers of RWD cars, add TRACTION CONTROL. Yes, I know that TC = :gay , but wouldn't it be worth it?

I think that 95% of the cars from Europe have traction control on them.

Also, they need a special project like the Ford GT.



BTW- I don't think it will be Pontiac. Some of the Toyota hybrid cars such as the Vibe are pretty good cars.

[Pig Pen]

My dad is a big shot at some parts factory in Port Washington and reads all about the problems that GM has been having for a few years now. The Colbalt SS is so messed up that they coudn't get it to past any of the testing that it seems to have squeeked by with finally. And the G6 is selling very poorly, nearly half the rate of the Grand Prix that it replaced, guess no one cares about a glass roof. I thought GM was going to put the GN back out too, that could have helped, but if GM is hurting this bad, it's probably a wet dream for most and a good idea that never and should have gotten off the ground.

[PB86MCSS]

buick the only one who buys them are blue hairs --next time you are on the road if you see an old fart check out what they are driveing --99% buick century or a park ave --and or a crown vic.
So my guess is Buick

So funny yet its true.

With Buicks market share being 60+ in age, it seems obvious to me that it would be easiest and make the most sense to cut the Bufords....trying to re-invent itself to appeal to younger people would be tough. I'm surpised Pontiac isn't doing well, seems that that is the most common GM car on the roads in the last 10 years with the billions of Grand Prix's/Grand Am's all over the place.

Pretty sad that GM is doing so poor but I don't think making more performance cars is really the answer, making at least a couple more RWD cars with some balls would be good but they still need to appeal the masses better and the masses don't care too much about RWD or having 300+ hp, sadly ;).

[Flight_740]

To be honest, I wouldnt care if GM Closed up everything. American cars are junk these days. The last of the good american cars were RWD V8 cars such as the caprice, monte, grand prix and those were all full framed. i get into an american car these days and it feels like a complete p.o.s. compared to a nice import.

Im even talking about ford and dodge here. WTF are american car companies thinking? Sure there are still a lot of die hard american fans but once they get a taste of a nic import, the american car makers will really be hurting.

Be honset guys. When was the last time you got into a newer american car thats less than 3 years old and had a good ride? Im talking about no squeeks, rattles, shakes, vibrations and such. It's been a while for me. Take an older import for a ride and you will see the difference.

I think all american car makers need to get their head out of their ass and build a decent car again. be more like BMW, Acura, Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, even Honda for crying out loud. I don't care what anybody says, even caddy is a piece of crap these days.

I know i will never buy american again unless it's a Z28, vette, firebird or even a truck. I got a taste of imports and im not looking back.

[theavenger333]

i sort of agree with you, i started with domestics, went to imports, and am back on domestic again. to a point you are right, but imports also have a ton of things that are shitty too. most of the craftsmanship on imports is way crummier, hence why the cars are cheaper. and no matter what level of car i drove, they all still don't have the road presence, they all feel like you are driving a tin can the way they handle minus like the top of the line cars like your Q

[DFJ6000]

I totally disagree, thats the problem with american cars is they are tryin to hard to be European. The american car companies need to be themselves. Back in the 70's it was the imports that wanted to be like the american cars, not the american cars wanting to be imports. We taught the rest of the world how to build a car, I'm sure we can still build a better one. I do agree that the american cars are worth a f^^^ these days, but with the euro money being more valued than the american dollar, you are paying more for your new Honda then its really even worth. The sad thing is that the consumer reports and auto magazines have evenyone fooled that the imports are so much better, when in reality they are not. To me all new cars are junk. They have eliminated the backyard mechanic, or side of the road engine fix. Now and days you need a ASE certified "technician" to fix and repair your cars. Its all so rediculous. You would think that after all these years, instead of the engines becoming more complicated they would have became even simpler than before?

[Pig Pen]

Video proof that US cars rock! See what this Dodge beat 4 out of 5 times! :wooo

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/dodge88.html

[Al]

I think that the unions have f***ed the auto industry too. Just like MPS.

As for SUV's, that trend is from the mid 90's.

Crappy imports? I agree that some bottom-of-the-line cars like the Hyundi Accent and Kia Rio are crap, but honda, nissan and toyota have been making good cars for some time now in all markets.

How could they have trouble with the Cobalt? It is almost the same thing as the cavy (oh wait, GM messed up on that one too).

How can my base-model integra's 1.8 L motor outperform these domsetic 4 cyl engines in efficiency, power and reliability, yet also be 13 YEARS OLD!

I think that GM needs to start a new company without a union so that the cars cost 40% less. Pensions SUCK for any corporation!

When I think of DC, the neon is the bottom car. It does drop like a rock in value after being sold, but they seem to be a bit more reliable than a cavi.

As for performance cars, I think that GM needs its own versions of saleen and steeda. They should go ahead with their normal monte carlo, but use and independant contractor to build their SS models.

[Flight_740]

IHow can my base-model integra's 1.8 L motor outperform these domsetic 4 cyl engines in efficiency, power and reliability, yet also be 13 YEARS OLD!

Exactly. I barely see any of the old school quad 4's on the road but I see plenty of the old integras and civics around with upper 200's on them with some 16 year old kid beating the snot out of it. They last.


The sad thing is that the consumer reports and auto magazines have evenyone fooled that the imports are so much better, when in reality they are not. To me all new cars are junk. They have eliminated the backyard mechanic, or side of the road engine fix. Now and days you need a ASE certified "technician" to fix and repair your cars. Its all so rediculous. You would think that after all these years, instead of the engines becoming more complicated they would have became even simpler than before?


That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Im not trying to flame you but since when is an import junk compared to an american car? They say that an import is a better car because they are. Drive a lumina or malibu or anything american with 100k on it, then drive an import like a camry or an accord with 100k on it. Hell drive one with 150k on it. Then you tell me what is the better car. If there is one thing the car business has taught me, it's that Imports are MILES ahead of the domestics. I see it everyday.

You are correct on the fact that all cars are getting harder and harder to work on. Thats the beauty of an import, you only have to reapir them about 1/4 as much as you would on an american car. For the most part, just drive the hell out of them. I have friends that don't change their oil for 8000 miles and have well over 200k on their cars. Guess what, they are imports and have had no major problems.

[T-Bag]

To be honest, I wouldnt care if GM Closed up everything. American cars are junk these days. The last of the good american cars were RWD V8 cars such as the caprice, monte, grand prix and those were all full framed. i get into an american car these days and it feels like a complete p.o.s. compared to a nice import.


I totally agree. The new imports are MILES ahead of any domestic car on the market except for the higher priced cadillacs and such.

[PB86MCSS]

When I think of DC, the neon is the bottom car. It does drop like a rock in value after being sold, but they seem to be a bit more reliable than a cavi.

Maybe I can't speak for very new ones but for older models, Cavs are quite reliable. My 87' has 171k on it and runs strong, just that the body is rotted out around it :D.


Exactly. I barely see any of the old school quad 4's on the road but I see plenty of the old integras and civics around with upper 200's on them with some 16 year old kid beating the snot out of it. They last.

My parents have a 88' Accord since brand new. Has had its share of minor problems, I do agree Honda makes very good quality cars but THAT much better than domestics? I don't see it. Better one can argue but all cars can and do have problems. Our Accord has 215k on it and has been leaking/burning oil like a mother f-er for a couple years now. Also ate 2 alternators in a few years time...my parents have been stranded in it 2-3 times now. The only time I was ever stranded in my older(I've never owned a car newer than a 87' :wow ) cars was in my old beater 87'SS that busted a tie rod in the middle of winter on campus at UWM. That same car with 150k and leaking oil due to a rust hole in the oil pan(car was rotted what can I say) drove 1,500 miles in 2 days to New Mexico without a problem 2 months after busting that tie-rod.

Lesson learned, stick to older domestics that are easy/cheap to work on and purchase. I'll end up getting a newer Cav since they can be had cheap for a daily by next fall, I don't think its worth a few more thousand to *upgrade* to a similar shape/year Civic. Better use for my money...

If I didn't live in the rust belt I'd be driving g-bodies year round since my only desire for a newer car is primarily I don't have to care about it as they are generally all throw-away cars and shouldn't show rust for at least some time.

JMHO.

[Al]

[QUOTE=PB86MCSS]Maybe I can't speak for very new ones but for older models, Cavs are quite reliable. My 87' has 171k on it and runs strong, just that the body is rotted out around it :D.

You are right.

The older cavs had some good engines in them. I chould have clarified that just about everything else seemed to fail on those cars. Luckily, someone invented duct tape to fix it.


About modern domestic sucking, I think that only Chevy follows that trend.

Ford seems to be doing very well.


Back in the day, my 87 Escort GT was something else. I bought it for $700 and beat it senslessly. It went through a clutch, but what else could I expect at 178k. Other than that, it was reliable and VERY easy to fix. I carried a $10 tool set from kmart with me and there never seemed to be an issue I couldn't fix. My Safari was a good car too.




In terms of their market, GM is boring!

[fireboverd]

I work at a chevy/saab/cadillac dealership and my service manager told me they (GM) were doing a 3 month study to see if they wanted to keep saab in business...just what I heard.
-Tom

[Lash]

Exactly. I barely see any of the old school quad 4's on the road but I see plenty of the old integras and civics around with upper 200's on them with some 16 year old kid beating the snot out of it. They last.


.


the "old school" quad 4 (2.3 H.O. or W41) cars are not/were not easily found. They are considered a rare car...thats why you don't see many of them.

My 2.4 GA had 87,00 miles on it before I sold it...it had ZERO problems the entire time I owned it (since 27,000 miles). My 2.4 Cavalier had 67,000 semi neat miles on it....also ZERO problems.


So...I dunno? :)