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95 TA - The Beast
11-16-2013, 08:30 PM
Hey guys, just figured I would drop a bit of advice for everyone that has recently purchased a home, and that is to go through your electrical (if you are able to do it yourself).

My house was built in 1989 with the guy that built it/owned was an electrician with his own contracting business. I will say, after 25 years I have found more than enough stuff that needed redoing due to age, or was just flat out done poorly.

I am going through and replacing every outlet and light switch. I have 151 duplex outlets and 79 light switches. Those duplex outlets don't include the 23 GFCI outlets we have. With the switches those include at least 5 4-ways, at least 24 3-ways, 9 regular dimmers, 7 digital dimmers, and the rest are regular 1-way switches.

Now, I am doing this because I have found a bunch of outlets with low-tension when you plug something in, and most don't have proper back support so when you plug something in the outlet flexes inward.

The switches I am doing because I decided to upgrade to decorator paddles from the old-school flip switches. When I did the master suite my wife asked me if I put in new bulbs since the lights were noticeably brighter. So, that just indicated to me that all the switches everywhere needed to be upgraded to decorator paddles as well, along with a bunch of occupancy sensors in strategic locations (like bathrooms, mudroom, etc).

What I have been finding is wire-nuts that are not tight, grounds that are not hooked up properly, missing GFCI outlets where code requires them (like on the outlets on the island in the kitchen), as well as general issues with wall plates lining up, etc, etc...

I have replaced all the wall plates with updated plates and will be going with screwless plates next year. As it is this little set of upgrades has cost a ton that I wasn't planning on doing, so the extra for screwless plates can wait...

While doing all of this I also cleaned and painted some of the intercom stations (Krylon Fusion paint for plastic is AWESOME), as well as replaced a bunch of the older wall thermostats that are in each room (this place has baseboard electric heating everywhere as well as the gas furnace forced-air heating). The thermostats were the biggest shocker as I tore a bunch of them apart and they all had signs of internal arcing/heat/damage. I am talking to the point where they caused the bakelite material to discolor from the heat. I can only imagine how much energy was lost in those faulty connections. I did check with the manufacturer and those units are original from 1998 and they are rated for a 10-12 year lifespan, less with heavy use, so they have been needed to be replaced for quite some time.

Oh, I also replaced all the yellowed old-school central vacuum inlets with new full-cover plate inlets. Things look much cleaner and nicer. I do believe I will be doing some painting over the winter, or in spring at the latest.

In going through the electrical I found out there was a breaker that had a line that went into a junction box on the back of the house with nothing hooked up to it. I found the dishwasher spliced onto another circuit instead of it being on it's own (which is weird since this place is so overbuilt with two 200amp services and two 40-breaker electrical panels, every counter outlet in the kitchen has 12-gauge wire with a 20-amp breaker and an dedicated GFCI outlet for just that one, along with all the major appliances on their own circuits, so there are 12 dedicated breakers for stuff in the kitchen alone, every bathroom has at least two breakers with one for the GFCI outlets and the other for lights/fan/heater, etc, etc), I found extra GFCI outlets off one of the panels wired to other breakers in the panel where the breaker was a 20-amp with only 14awg wire (a big no-no, as 15-amp is the max breaker for 14-awg, unless it is an approved motor connection that has startup surge, in which case a 20-amp is allowed), found the sump-pump originally was supposed to be in the lighting panel and was cross-wired over into the power panel and also found a leak in the wall area where the electrical service conduit comes through.

I ended up redoing everything that was wrong, put the dishwasher on it's own breaker, rewired the sump pump outlets back to where it was supposed to be, sealed up the leak by the conduit with polyurethane concrete & masonry sealant, ordered up 30 new 15-amp breakers and 20 new 20-amp breakers and will be replacing everything as well as tightening down everything and checking the buss bars when I do the breakers. I also took the opportunity to balance the phases on the lighting panel (not needed on the power panel since it is all 240volt stuff), and took readings on everything. I found my whole-house blower fan is pulling just over 10amps continuously, so I am looking into replacing that ASAP (new ones have a 7.9amp startup rating, with less than 4amps continuous run draw), I balanced out what phases a bunch of the rooms were on and in doing so I ended up reducing the amount of interference noise that comes over the intercom.

In regards to the intercom I found that was one of the temper-tantrums done before the previous owner left after it foreclosed, since not only was the main intercom unit mis-wired, it had a fuse half-in. If I would have pushed the fuse in and not checked the wiring it would have fried out the main unit. That was taken care of just after I bought the house. But the other sabotage was that a lot of the intercom stations had their wiring wrong in the wall. When they installed the intercom they put a large nail near each station and wrapped the intercom line around the nail to keep it taught between points as it was run throughout the house. Well, I found a lot of the wiring off the tension posts and actually wrapped around the electrical wiring in the wall. All that did was cause a ton of electrical noise over the intercom when it was in use. I redid all of that and now the entire intercom system is damn near noise-free. I think I have one or two more circuits to balance between phases on the breaker panel which should take care of the rest of the induced noise, but it is near the point when you make one change it unbalances something else, so I have to really work out a power loading chart and a listing of what wires run near what intercoms to determine if I can squash the remaining interference (but, then agian, I may just leave it alone since it is only noticeable when the volume is maxed out, not when at normal talking levels and it really is a majorly overly anal thing vs something that is an issue).

I will say it took me over two days to map out all the circuits everywhere. And the previous owner did do some cool stuff, like putting all the built-in entertainment cabinet outlets in the family room on their own 20-amp circuit and a 20-amp switch so he could switch everything off and not worry about it when he went on vacation. I am thinking that is why he also moved the sump pump to the power panel, as he could then pull the main breaker for the lighting panel and still have sump pump protection??? Then again the security system is on the lighting panel so maybe that wasn't the case... Maybe the bank moved the sump pump over and removed the power to the lighting panel to pay for only one service while it was for sale???

But, yeah, if you have the ability, go through the electrical in your place. You will be amazed at what you would find.

I am just happy to update a bunch of stuff that *should* be done properly, stuff that was just unsafe, and adding some protection that was missing in critical areas, as well as adding some conveniences (the wife LOVES the occupancy sensors).

jbiscuit
11-16-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm sorry but this is just OCD kicking in x100. Plus Dennis can you ever post anything with less than 5000 words? Lol!

wrath
11-16-2013, 09:44 PM
All the stuff in the house was probably built using leftovers from other people's houses. I'm surprised about the GFCIs, not surprised about the rest. He probably didn't understand intercoms (most electricians can't grasp communications). I'm fairly certain he got the GFCIs from other people's houses leftovers because by then most electricians were switching to GFCI breakers and many of the non-Leviton ones were Made in China and people were having problems with them. I was wiring a lot of houses at this time and the cheapskates used non-QO panels and non-Leviton switches/outlets. Also at this time, many of the electricians were still crimping and soldering because only 3M was making decent wire nuts and they were expensive.

All the home theater equipment should be on the same leg sharing the same ground bus, otherwise you will likely hear a 60hz hum.

The wiring in my house is skeery. 100 amp pushbutton service with only 8 circuits. I've made it worse with a bunch of pseudo-temporary crap I'm not proud of. I do have a couple 16 space and a 40 space QO panel sitting new in the box, plus 1250' of 12-2, 750' of 14-2, 250' of 12-3, and 100' of 10-3 to rewire the house. I already have one 16 space panel for powering the garage and garden shed. Theory is to use the ATS to power just the lighting panel (16 space) and the main equipment panel (refrigerator, water heater, and well) so when the generator kicks on the 40 space panel and the 16 space garage panel is dead. Someday I'll get to it, right along with the 25" wide attic ladder sitting next to it. Which is in front of the 1500 sqft worth of R30 that have been sitting there for 3 years. Which is behind the 300' of crown moulding I made two years ago.

But I digress. I definitely agree, should look at the electrical.

95 TA - The Beast
11-17-2013, 01:08 AM
Well, he actually used all Leviton GFCI outlets (the ugly ivory ones with the red and black test/rest buttons), the panels are Crouse-Hinds LCT240PC panels with MP series breakers, a few MP-T newer ones for a few 60 amp 2-pole breakers and a MP250GF GFCI for the hot tub, otherwise all Model 3 Crouse-Hinds MP-series. He even chose the "good" Crouse-Hinds main "fuse plug" that has dual fuses in a removeable carrier to disconnect the mains vs the old "shut it off and never get it back on" breakers they used at the time (buddy told me horror stories of how you flipped them off and the lever would break trying to turn them back on). And yes, the desire to have everything match was riding high when I scored 30 "New Old Stock", in the original boxes of 10 each, Crouse-Hinds MP breakers for $80 shipped, since I figure that is quite a bit cheaper than $4/per for the newer Siemans-made MP-T breakers, and keeps everything looking the same...

No crimping and soldering anywhere, but lots of wire nuts... He wired everything pretty well, using 6 gauge for the kitchen range, 8 gauge for the dryer, etc, all solid copper wire stuff, no stranded to be found anywhere. Everything affixed properly at the panels, interior of the panels are very well organized.

Actually, the intercom was originally installed properly. You could tell by the paint overspray that it was wound and wired properly at one point. Like I said, he physically wrapped the intercom wire around some romax in the wall on purpose and bolted the station back into place. Key point is there would be zero reason to take the intercom wiring off the tension posts and put them with the electrical.

And I know he balanced the electrical by the original label in the box. I am pretty sure he just fucked with shit because he was pissed it foreclosed. Like putting a 30amp breaker on a 6-gauge run for the electric range in the kitchen, putting a couple 14-gauge electricals on a 20-amp breaker (again, they were not motor loads, since he still left the 20-amp breakers on the refrigerator and freezer circuits), putting a 30-amp breaker on the AC condenser feed that requires a 40-amp for the startup surge, etc... All I had to do was shuffle the breakers around to put them in the right spots, so it wasn't like he even pulled any and left them out. I also found a host of other "sabotaged" items that a lot of people would have overlooked and corrected them pretty quick after we closed. Nothing really to get overly pissed about, and I can understand someone being salty because the home they designed and built themselves got foreclosed on.

Most of the duplex outlets were decent ones, kinda funny though, they had "Builders Square" stickers on them (I bet most people won't remember that store)... The switches were all Leviton, Cooper, some Lutron Maestro dimmers, some Pass & Seymour - LeGrand dimmers and switches... Like I said, he used quality stuff it seems, I think he just got lazy (a lot of people that do stuff for a living find they don't have the energy or drive once they go to work on their "own stuff" and I think a large portion of that is what I am encountering)...

jb, yeah some of this stuff is "OCD"-like stuff, but I view it this way, do it all right off and never have to worry about it. Some of it is part of the "fix it up" aspect, others are required updates/upgrades and others are just flat out being anal retentive. But, I view it all as "might as well get it done now" since we all know we can end up running short on time and I don't want to get busy with other stuff and never "get back to it"... And, yeah, I guess I am kinda "wordy" on posts... Just trying to be "detail oriented"... ;)

05caddyext
11-17-2013, 07:13 AM
i neex this done in my house badly. im positive everything is wired wrong. ive got at least 5 junction boxes in my basement ceiling alone. ive got a blank cover in my living room that has so many wires in it the cover barely fits. i have no clue where or how to begin. id like my entire house rewired and a new panel done. anyone interested?

Lash
11-17-2013, 08:23 AM
FYI...just because there isn't a gfci at the island doesn't mean it's not there. A lot of times they wire outlets in series with a single gfci outlet. That makes all the outlets in the series protected. Just something to remember....

Lash
11-17-2013, 08:24 AM
New panel you need a master electrician that can pull a permit.

nismodave
11-17-2013, 08:29 AM
Damn Electricians.

Im curious though....23 GFCI outlets?

Lash
11-17-2013, 09:12 AM
^ tis what I was thinking lol

CannotPost
11-17-2013, 09:19 AM
Damn Electricians.

Im curious though....23 GFCI outlets?

That is interesting, as is two 200amp panels...

Lash
11-17-2013, 09:23 AM
Two?!? I missed that lol.

Is this one of them 15,000sqft homes???

77thor
11-17-2013, 10:26 AM
Over-kill.

95 TA - The Beast
11-17-2013, 01:53 PM
Actually, all of the outlets in the kitchen that are above the counter (5 of them) and the one on the island are all 12-2 w/ground wire and all are on their own 20-amp breakers. So nothing is shared on any of them. I could run bigly Nesco cookers as well as mixers and griddles and not pop those circuits...

The only GFCI outlets in the house that have extra outlets chained on the load-lines are the ones in the main and master bathrooms. And they only have one extra outlet chained on them (as well as the whirlpool tub in the main bath is chained on a GFCI too). In the garage there are two 20-amp circuits, and each chain of outlets is GFCI protected back to a GFCI outlet. Outside the house they are all individual GFCI outlets, except for the front door outlets which has a GFCI outlet on the left and a chained outlet slaved on the right. All of the exterior outlets (including the ones in the soffits) are switched so I can control what is on/off.

Like I said, I mapped every outlet and every switch everywhere in this place back to the panel, so I know what is hooked up where. Hell, I even got up on a ladder and checked the outlets up in the soffits to verify which circuit which ones are on. And, just for info, there is 7 duplex outlets (14 outlets total) in the soffits.

As far as the GFCIs, there is 6 in the kitchen, two in the main bath, two in the master bath, two for the other baths (one in each other bathroom), two in the garage, one in the mudroom, two in the auxillary kitchen, two off the lighting panel, and 4 on lower outside of the house. I only have two GFCI breakers, one is a 50-amp two-pole for the hot tub and the other is a single-pole 15-amp I added to protect the backyard light posts and outlet attached to that circuit. I still have the capped off electrical that was originally for the pool lights on that circuit already wired to a switch so I can add extra lighting pretty easily if I decide to put in a stone patio and have accent lighting for it (or I may decide to put a decent sized pool in next year and the lighting will be easy for it).

This place is just under 5000 sq/ft, so it is a decent sized house (including the lower level that is, with about 3300 above grade, 1600 below grade, as well as 700 sq/ft for the garage, so over 5600sq/ft including the garage). But, yeah the electrical is way overbuilt, which I have no issues with. About the only improvement I would have liked to see would be to have the theater outlets be on two different circuits. The previous guy put 2 sets of track lights (6 bulbs each track) and 7 outlets all on that circuit.not a big deal except for the fact that I have two bigly computers on that circuit (one has a 1200 watt power supply and the other a 1000 watt), so I am concerned that at some point I might pop the 15-amp breaker if those computers are doing heavy gaming and people are in the theater at the same time... But the highest draw I have seen on that circuit is 12.2 amps so I think we are pretty good for now...

Lash
11-17-2013, 02:18 PM
Now you're just trying to brag.

wikked
11-17-2013, 04:03 PM
151 outlets...
79 light switches...
23 GFCI's...

That is overkill o_O

nismodave
11-17-2013, 04:41 PM
151 outlets...
79 light switches...
23 GFCI's...

That is overkill o_O

:wstupid

Korndogg
11-17-2013, 05:29 PM
You're going to have to step up your game if you want to roll with the big dogs.



This is a pic of my servants quarters living room.

http://www.stormfax.com/OutletWall.jpg

jbiscuit
11-17-2013, 05:37 PM
Lol

Sometimes I think the detailed oriented nature of your posts is to be sure everyone knows you have a 5000sf house. Bragging is a dish best served chilled with a side of humble pie.

michelle
11-17-2013, 06:19 PM
I want to see pictures of this house. I like looking at fancy houses.

Lash
11-17-2013, 07:05 PM
Mark, that's the exact image I have in my head of what the house looks like, lmao!!

That and a lot of hallways and staircases, hence the need for 24 3-way switches.

95 TA - The Beast
11-17-2013, 07:44 PM
Ack... This again... I am detailed because I am detailed... I do it with everything... Doesn't matter if it is cars, or the house, or the kids, or work, etc...

Not trying to brag at all... Someone asked if it was a 15k sq/ft house, I just clarified it isn't anywhere near that... I go into detail because I find it relevant... Why is it that if you mention the way something is, people take it as bragging?

If that was the case then people shouldn't mention they can produce XXXhp with their car, or they got such and such an ET at the track, or that they bought a new car, or they had a child (since that is bragging to those that unable to have kids), or that someone landed a new job, etc, etc...

I consider bragging to be when people gloat over something and make critical commentary to put others down in comparison... I don't do that... None of my posts have ever done that...

Anyways, here are pics of the panels, since they are relevant to the thread:

8305
8306
8307

I still have to get some 14awg wire and wire between the panels and convert the lower left GFCI outlet to a 240v outlet for the central vacuum. It is currently hard-wired, but I would prefer it to be a plug-in unit. As it is it is wired through the "pool vacuum" timer box for convenience. It is wired with 12-gauge wire and to a 15-amp 240v breakers, with a strain-relief on the wire into the box, so it is all done properly for a hard-wired setup, so I may just leave it as well.

Based on the commentary, I don't know if pics of the house would be appreciated... :rolleyes:

But if pics are wanted, I will post them...

Prince Valiant
11-17-2013, 10:08 PM
I go into detail because I find it relevant... Why is it that if you mention the way something is, people take it as bragging?

I consider bragging to be when people gloat over something and make critical commentary to put others down in comparison... I don't do that... None of my posts have ever done that...I just happen to mention to everyone that I qualified for Nationals in Cross Country my freshman year of college, graduated magna cum laude, could still dunk a basketball after my first knee reconstruction, and have flown 30 hours solo....

...not to compare to anyone. Just because I find it relevant.

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 02:00 AM
Wow... I guess I am finding that a few of you guys must really be butt-hurt over things to be acting like such knobs...

If it is because I bought a nice house for my family (for which I will add there is 8 occupants, not just a family of 3 or 4, but 8), it wasn't done as a "one-up" on anyone...

Or, is it because I also built probably one of the nicest and most complete Trans-Ams??? I was getting this same amount of butt-hurt stupidity on my car because I spent my money and my time doing EVERYTHING but the interior myself. And the kicker was I didn't build it to compete, I built it because I wanted it that way. I got all this ignorance at the same level on that because I wouldn't give people the satisfaction of racing them. It is my choice not to race, not anyone elses. Same with this, I bought MY home for MY family. There is no competition or anything else involved. If there was, I would have gone for nothing but tons of land and square footage and some ritzy location for the house. As it is I got a very well built house, in a great neighborhood that is close to the schools I want for my children. How is that bragging???

I notice the same chuckleheads start this stupidity because I make complete posts. Sorry if more thought goes into any-one of my various projects than just about anything that matters to some of you. If you read my posts, I post about issues or situations that have merit for others to possibly get something out of. It is not bragging, it is stating facts. How the hell is talking about going through the electrical in your house bragging??? If it is because of the sheer scope, considering all the electrical in this place, then that shows even MORE why there is so much detail given. I have seen friends do less than a 10th of what I have and consider that project a big undertaking. Hell, EVERYTHING about this place is usually a bigger PITA than most anyone I knows homes from many perspectives, not just size, but also construction details, be it good or bad. Yet, because I bought a bigger house than most, none of it has merit???

C'mon, it is obvious there is a LOT of jealous stupidity here. Mostly from a couple of you guys, and it is far from the first time I got it from either of you. You seem to hate the fact that I do well for myself, ignore the fact that I put more time/money/energy and effort into any of my endeavors than probably what you have, and only try to poke jabs because someone accomplishes something. Lets see either of your vehicles that you have spent anywhere near what I have on (and I am not talking money, since I do 98% of my own work on EVERYTHING, so no, no deep pockets here that pays someone else for what I have, I actually accomplish most of what I have based on sweat-equity) and if you even put 1/3 of what I have into mine they would be some of the nicest cars on the road. As it is, if you notice, I don't talk about cars much on here, since I learned a long time ago that this type of stupidity would run rampant if I did. And hell, that is the funniest part of this, in that I HELP damn near anyone and everyone I can, all the time. If I was such a conceited jerk, I WOULDN'T BE POSTING AT ALL, let alone helping anyone on anything.

So, to jbiscuit and Prince Valiant, man-up, get a pair and stop the stupidity attacks because you feel inadequate. That isn't my point here, yet you both ALWAYS go there. If you have an inferiority complex, grow up. Do for yourself and be happy with what you accomplish. Not everyone is trying to "measure up". I would hope everyone would be proud of their home, especially if they put as much time and energy into it as I have, regardless of size/design/location. If your still upset I built the T/A, get over it, as I don't even have enough time to drive it hardly at all. I honestly don't know where either of you get off being salty about anything since I have been nothing but nice and civil to either of you. (and political discussions don't count, since that is as bad as getting people to agree on religion)

Hell, with most that have an issue with me, I don't know where the hell it comes from since I am one of the least confrontational people going and don't try to pick fights, ever... Sure, I hate it when people try being bullies and act stupid, who doesn't. I would not consider ANYTHING I do/post/involve myself in to be able to be classified as "stupid" and I am sure most that know me would agree.

PV, what exactly did I provide in this thread that WAS NOT relevant??? I talked about going through the electrical system in detail, and provided details. Someone asked about house size, I provided it. Yet that isn't relevant? Your post is nothing more than a cheap-shot that doesn't even come close to making a point.

Or, should people only post things of as long as they don't look like they have more than someone else??? And, again, please show where I am putting someone else down in ANY of my posts based on what I have???

Jealousy is a ugly bitch when it comes right down to it. Sorry if I have a ton of input on a bunch of subjects, but I bust my ass to do all I do and learn all I do and apply it as much as possible. Wouldn't it be great if everyone did the same instead of bitching and moaning?

SSDude
11-18-2013, 04:59 AM
Over sharing. Save it for Facebook.

jbiscuit
11-18-2013, 07:49 AM
Dennis, let me make something clear. I'm not jealous of you or anyone else. I have what I have and thats it. I'll never be rich, never own a 5,000 SF house like you or have 8 muscle cars in my garage. Just reality. But what I do have I am quite proud of. And I think that shows. I too do nearly everything myself. And I like it that way. My little family and I are quite happy. I have a good job, good family, a good house, good neighbors, good neighborhood with lots of car guys...life is good. See how I kept my post to the point with less than 4,500 words? I didn't drop in posts about the SF of my house, the number of bedrooms my home has, and so on? Detail to convey a point is one thing. I too am a detailed person. But being boastful is different. Just sayin.

Carry on

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 09:21 AM
Jay, congrats on all you have and accomplished... I love how you put the "I am a pauper like mostly everyone else" twist on your post... You just proved my point.

I would hope everyone would have the attitude of, "I can have and accomplish anything I apply myself to" instead.

Nix
11-18-2013, 12:37 PM
I'd like to see some pics of your place. It sounds like a really nice house. A nice size house on a couple wooded acres is what I would ideally love to have someday. I like looking at other folks houses for two reasons... 1) it's fun for me just like I enjoy looking at the pictures of cars folks post and 2) because in the past from me looking at pictures has given me some pretty sweet ideas of things that I may want to do to our next house. I have a notebook with ideas written down for our next place.

So with that said, post some pics.

WickedSix
11-18-2013, 12:52 PM
At least your problem is tending toward the overbuilt side.... our house from the 50's has so many boxes overstuffed with wires and circuits added to circuits on only 100 amp service with nary a ground in sight.....and an electric dryer wired directly into the panel :/

Wagonbacker9
11-18-2013, 01:38 PM
I replaced like all 30 of the outlets in my huge mansion with tamper resistant ones. A couple of them crumbled in my hands. Had the pushmatic replaced with a newer panel when I moved in because it was full and the little lady demanded a dishwasher and disposal.

CannotPost
11-18-2013, 05:06 PM
Wow. That electric system is way way over the top. Neat that someone was that particular about it. That said, it's completely over built. A separate circuit for each kitchen outlet is absurd. You can run plenty of small appliances (nesco, mixers and the like) on one 15/20 amp circuit. Additionally, a setup like yours (100's of switches) is going to be very expensive to switch to a Home automation system. Any new high end home built today will include an extensive automation system. Again, an interesting / neat setup but pretty unnecessary and will be difficult going forward. Thanks for sharing!

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 05:30 PM
Thanks for the input... Yeah the whole home automation thing is a major expense for as much as I would need... Looked into that briefly before doing the updates and considering all the extra modules and such it was definitely out of the budget for not only now but the foresee-able future as well... Honestly, someone is almost always home, so parts of the automation would be wasted...

What I think would be neat would be remote controlled automatic windows shades... Now THAT is something that might be doable in a year or two...

Nix, I will post pics once I am on my main desktop at home... Yeah, we really wanted to buy a house further out with a lot of land, but considering we are only about a mile from where we were at in the apartments and the kids qualified for open-enrollment and were able to stay in their schools, we are pretty happy. The neighbors are all pretty nice, the neighborhood is quiet and we have a fenced in yard for the dog so we consider ourselves pretty fortunate.

Prince Valiant
11-18-2013, 05:56 PM
C'mon, it is obvious there is a LOT of jealous stupidity here. Dennis, the day I'm jealous of you is the day I jump off the hoan bridge. It just makes me chuckle to think that anyone I know on this site would be jealous of you. Simple as that.

It was like the bizzaro post from before where not only was everyone jealous of you, but all your neighbors were out to get you. Just weird man...tiresome and weird.

The point is simple...quit thinking you can infer what others think or feel. You can't.

Your post should have been "Hey guys!!! go through your electricals! Found a lot of screwed up stuff in mine!" with some elaboration.

05caddyext
11-18-2013, 07:06 PM
What is the best way to map out the system? Do you literally need to test every single outlet by throwing breakers to see what's connected to what? I know mine is royally screwed up, I don't think anything is correct. For instance, I have 2 gfci outlets in my bathroom, both are on the same circuit. Neither one works correctly in that situation right? That's just the start. I also have several outlets in my attic area that are still only 2 wire with no ground, however there are 3 prong outlets there. What is the best thing to do? I'd like to have the entire house rewired, it's only about 900 sq ft. Any ideas how much this would cost?

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 07:49 PM
PV, that is the kicker, I, nor anyone else, should try to post a certain way to make you feel better about yourself. If you don't have anything positive to add, then don't post, it is that simple. You try to stir up shite all the time, get a life and don't post in my threads, it is that simple. If you have something positive to add, go for it. Other than that you just troll. Do your own thing and don't worry about others, but it is quite obvious you have some sort of problem where you can't help yourself. If you aren't jealous on some level, then why the posts at all??? You really do have a problem. I don't go reading your threads and post stuff, but you seem to do it all the time to me. That is called trolling. The more you do it, the more it shows just how much of a problem you really have. You author things your way, and I will author things my way. And I could care less if you feel inadequate because I post in a way that hurts your feelings. Oh, and for the record, I never said my neighbors were out to get me. I don't know where you get this stupidity. Mentioning someone is being rude is far from being paranoid.

05caddyext, to map things out I used a electric breaker finder, an electrical line toner and the simple throw the breaker methods depending on what I was tracing. The circuit in the bathroom can have both GFCIs working just fine if they are hooked to the circuit individually. If they are slaved one onto the "load" terminals of the other, they can cause a cascading trip, or just cause faulty tripping because you have two inline. If there were the case you could actually replace the slave with a regular outlet and let the GFCI one protect itself and the slave. In regards to the three prong outlets with no ground, I do believe at some point they used the conduit as a ground, so if you have metal conduit running to those outlet boxes that would suffice, but if not then you can replace the 3-prong outlets with 2-prong outlets and not worry about it. No idea on the costs for a rewire...

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 07:55 PM
Oh, I forgot, someone wanted pictures...

8308

jbiscuit
11-18-2013, 08:43 PM
Again Dennis you fabricate and twist posts around to back up your own postings and I just don't understand why other than to attempt to "get the last word in" or something. My earlier post that said "I have what I have" was a comment meaning I don't come on here and toot my own horns. Nothing more. Just proof you read into things and twist them.

Go back and read how you word things sometime. I agree with PV that your posts about the neighbor you had issue with was like he was jealous of you and was "out to get you." Basically the same thing you said in here lol! Everyone wants what you have apparently!

Lash
11-18-2013, 08:56 PM
You should get the foundation checked out. Looks a little wet in the corner between the panels. I assume that's where the leak was coming from also.

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 09:40 PM
Jay, the same viewpoint as I expressed to PV applies to you. You don't have to post in my threads. It is that simple. You have an problem, just like PV. Your posts in this thread illustrate that better than anything else.

And to clarify, like I stated before, I never said a neighbor was out to get me, I stated they were being rude... If you don't have an issue, simply stop posting in my threads. If you continue you are just backing up how much of a problem you have. You never needed to state anything you said in this post at all. THAT is the point.

So sad to see people that can't handle when someone has something they don't and all they do is attack them because of it. What is the saying? "Haters be hating"??? If that isn't it, then you have nothing more to say.

Personally, I only reply to my own threads when I feel someone is twisting things out of context because they have a problem. That is exactly what you and PV do, constantly. Obviously no-one else has an issue with me talking about stuff, since you are the only two acting like that. And I can't help but believe this goes back to a long time ago. I would have figured you two would have grown up by now, but I guess people act immature regardless of age. Kinda funny, I have a 13 and a 15 year old and I don't have to teach them about proper social etiquette since they learned that lesson a long time ago. Why haven't both of you?

95 TA - The Beast
11-18-2013, 10:47 PM
You should get the foundation checked out. Looks a little wet in the corner between the panels. I assume that's where the leak was coming from also.

The foundation is solid (double-thick foundation walls), and that discoloration is because the bank didn't keep heat in the place over winter, so with the outside being red brick those outside corners like that ended up getting warmer quicker, thus causing sweating in those corners which showed up as various levels of efflorescence. There is nothing else anywhere else but those outside corners. Actually the opposite northeast corner was the worst with a noticeable buildup on the surface. I still need to finish cleaning the rest of that off before I texture and paint that corner this winter.

With all the rain we had this last spring there was no leaks anywhere. Even that leak I noticed by the conduit (which is on the adjoining wall to the left) wasn't an issue until this fall. And that is definitely taken care of, as it not only passed the rain test, but also a drench test with the hose. You can see where I did the repair in the upper left hand corner of the first picture. The interesting part is where I saw the leak there is no discoloration or evidence of a leak under that area at all. If I wash the walls well you wouldn't even see the efflorescence at all, just that it isn't a priority to do, especially if I end up finishing off the rest of the utility area, since it will all be hidden anyways...

wikked
11-19-2013, 12:40 PM
Oh, I forgot, someone wanted pictures...

8308

That doesn't look mansion-esque at all?
Looks like your average Brookfieldian house to me.
Lots of people have garages that are bigger than that house.

Dunno why people are so butthurt though, I didn't take it as condescending at all.

He wasn't saying: "haha you fags, LOOK AT THIS SHIT, get on my level you plebs!"
If you interpreted it as that, well that's on you.

:P

95 TA - The Beast
12-03-2013, 08:43 PM
Well, as part of the electrical "check-up" I have been doing I took amp readings at various times on various circuits and have been balancing them out between phases to offer a more balanced load to the electrical... You could tell it was originally done based on the original design, but with the rec-room changes and other things being changed throughout the years it wasn't kept up and re-balanced until I did it...

Well, part of that discovery was finding out the furnace blower (which we run 24/7/365 for air quality) was sucking down 11amps continuously. In looking at things I noticed the motor was original from 1989 and was rated at 9.6 amps. It is also a shaded-pole design that is amazingly inefficient (best source I could find said the most efficient shaded-pole designs could achieve 32% efficiency, with most falling into a 28-30% range). They are so inefficient that today nothing bigger than 1/6hp is ever made shaded-pole. This is a 1/3hp, 1050rpm, 4 speed 48-frame blower motor. In looking up a replacement, AOSmith (now Century motor) makes a drop-in PSC motor with an internal capacitor. It is rated at 5.7amps with a 6.0amp max draw, 4-speeds, etc, with a 60-65% efficiency (found conflicting sources for that one). So I had one shipped, pulled out the old blower and after a short time modifying gear puller arms and coming up with a set of shims to use as grab arms, I pulled the blower wheel off the original motor, got it all apart, cleaned it all up, and got it all back together.

The result is much stronger air coming out of the registers, and it is only drawing 5.0-5.1 amps while running (that reading was taken at the panel 15 minutes after it was running, I will have to recheck it tomorrow). So I am saving about $70-80/mo already with the new motor compared to the old one.

I also considered a ECM motor replacement for ultimate efficiency, especially considering they make a really nice one (the Evergreen IM) that would be a drop-in, but alas I already had the direct-model replacement on the way by the time I saw it. Since that uses a control-signal from the thermostat controls to control the motor speed, it sparked an idea. The way my current setup is done is that when you let the blower auto-control by the furnace it runs at high-speed for cooling, medium-hi for heating and if you set the fan manually on it runs at high all the time (regardless of other settings). Well, I don't think for air circulation off of heat or cooling mode I need to run the blower at max speed, so I am building a circuit to manage the speeds. I will set it with a rotary switch to select what speed I want for air circulation (probably will be low or medium-low), and it will provide overrides based on the heating or cooling mode being activated. If cooling mode is active it will override the rotary switch and run it at high all the time for maximum air circulation. If heating is active it will use the rotary selection for circulation, but once heating is commanded it will shut off the blower all together and allow the furnace to control the blower for proper startup and running. That way I alleviate the problem I had in the past in regards to backdrafting down the flue (since with the blower off it won't be creating a suction in the area), and it will allow the plenum to come up to full temp and then turn on the blower the way the furnace was meant to operate (which will optimize perfomance and longevity). All around it takes care of all the issues I have, as well as save me the most in regards to running the blower at the proper speeds that are needed all the time.

Oh, I am handling the cooling season/heating season changes by a "state" that is set when either the cooling mode or heating mode is commanded. Even in the event of a power failure, upon restart whichever mode is commanded first will set the current state. In spring/fall when you can have a flip-flop of states I don't think it is a big deal for the blower to run at varied speeds until it settles in, one way or the other.

wrath
12-03-2013, 09:01 PM
Why not put a separate blower in that uses a synchronous motor for continuous operation?

95 TA - The Beast
12-04-2013, 12:41 AM
Why not put a separate blower in that uses a synchronous motor for continuous operation?

I don't know if that is possible without reducting the air handler. I know it would be the most energy efficient method, but since I have two main trunks that run off the central handler itself (one goes east and feeds the front room/dining room/front hall/main level bedroom, with another that goes west and handles the rest of the house and is 2x the size of the eastward one), I am not certain the best way to integrate one without a ton of rework.

Honestly, I am doing the whole fan-controller because I don't want to mess what is currently there, just optimize it as much as possible. I mean, honestly, the air handler and everything was meant as a "backup" for heat and primarily setup for A/C... Hell the furnace was installed in '89 and never even used until '94... They used electric heat exclusively before then... The run to the master suite is the biggest duct (8") and they even modified how it ran initially. It initially was the first off the westward trunk, had 3 90-degree transitions right away, which they changed since they capped off that initial 8" 90-degree port and tapped in with a drop-down so it had a straight shot with only 1 90 off the main trunk, then 2 more 90s and then goes up to the cold (ie, unheated) storage area behind the master suite, it runs in insulated ducting to a in-wall run that is y-split on the far side of the room. Works great for cooling the master suite, sucks for heating it (takes forever to come up to temp, and even then is colder output than anywhere else in the house) and with the blower fan running constantly it just acts like a cooler since it is going through cold areas (unheated spaces, outside walls)... I have that turned down to about 1/4 for the winter months, thus using electric heat in the master suite, but I have it full open in the summer.

All of that is why I believe that cooling was much more of a priority than heating for the ductwork. With the main suite damper full open all the time, like I did all last winter, I noticed that the main suite would still need ot have electric heat running to get it liveable and with all that cold air in it was basically pushing all the warm air from that room to help heat the rest of the house.

For the sake of finishing off the rest of the utility area, if keeping that damper mostly closed works for winter (and it has been working great since the electric heat hasn't run no-where near as much as it did last year), I may re-duct that run back to using the initial 3 90s since that piping will sit up high enough for me to put in drop ceiling in that area. I will have to see how it is for the summer next year with cooling running like that. I don't liek the idea of adding in an in-duct blower motor for just that room, so if it works good enough with the 3 90s, great. If not I will just rehook back up the setup I have now. I have a funny feeling that the reducting they did was an attempt to get more heat into the master suite in the winter once they started using the furnace. And I will say, about the only thing we notice being cold is the walk-in closet that is part of the master suite. But, it is also ducted for heating/cooling so if the heat has kicked in recently enough it isn't bad at all in there, but on the downside, if it is at it's coldest point it is eye-opening being about 3-4 degrees colder than the room itself.

And, yeah, I know, if I shut the air circulation blower off entirely and have the furnace only kick in the fan when it is heating or cooling it might just work good enough, but I like how stable the entire house is temperature wise with the blower running continuously (as well as the increased air quality since the wife is an asthmatic) and I do believe it helps make sure the lower level doesn't get too cold as well. I think the lower level would be quite a bit colder if the air wasn't circulating all the time, thus necessitating me to run the electric heat down there to compensate, so I view it has 6 of 1 a half dozen of another kind of scenario. The previous owners used the downstairs as a rec room, so if it wasn't used all the time (like it is now) maybe the priority wasn't the highest to keep it up to temp, thus they wouldn't have minded using the electric heat as needed in that area.

kevcuda
01-13-2015, 07:37 PM
After reading this I am glad I went into PT and not electrical.