good cop bad cop

[venm4u97]

crazy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHGt3XfNvpM

heres an article

http://rt.com/usa/man-duenez-shooting-video-012/

[Rocket Power]

No slant to that article.:rolleyes:

[Mr Twigbert]

Gee, that article isn't slanted..

It looked like the guy wasn't just getting out slowly but rather trying to hop out which would make my butt pucker..

I like the part in the articele: While the officer was firing his gun, the victim’s wife ran out of the house, screaming at the officer and subsequently crying over her husband’s dead body. Ummm, I watched the video 3 times and the lady didn't come out till the shooting was over..

Also, Moody claims he shot the victim because he saw Duenez holding a knife. An 8-inch knife with a 4-inch blade was later found in the bed of the truck, but Duenez was not carrying it at the time of the shooting. To me it looks like the guy put his hand/arm up on the top of the roof and when being shot he could have dropped the knife into the bed of the truck.. Especially if he had the knife in the hand that was up on the roof of the truck..

And more, The footage also shows the victim’s foot getting stuck in the seatbelt while he was trying to exit the vehicle. I don't see any of this.. Looks like this guy is trying to hop out of the truck in a hurry to me.. This writer must have some x-ray vision because I don't see 1/2 the stuff he does.. And when was the last time your foot got caught in the seatbelt while getting out? It's never happen to me..

Even though Duenez was a known gang member who had violated his parole by failing a drug test.. This doesn't make it right to shoot someone but having that knowledge and a guy ignoring your commands and hopping out of a truck in a hurry would certainly put me on edge and even cause me to fear for my safety knowing this guys history..

[-stew-]

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/police-state-swat-when-did-this-become-this.jpg



Um, yeah. Because, running after someone, fumbling with excitement to draw your weapon and shooting someone for failing to follow your commands before you finish giving those commands looks real justified...

[Reverend Cooper]

um yeah when he looks like he is reaching back into the car for a weapon,yeah you should probably stop,if you have nothing to hide or arent up to no good you would follow orders given

[Prince Valiant]

Irony: People will be all upset and mobilize because a cop shot the gangbanger dead.

But aside from his family, who'd give a shit if another gangbanger had shot him dead?




I mean, we ALL get our feet stuck in the seatbelt while getting out by standing on the seat getting out of our trucks. all the time.

One thing that the article was particularly egregious in is asserting that the guy was unarmed, nor posed no threat. I saw no evidence to support those statements at all.

While it's true that I don't see a knife either, the fact that a knife was found in the bed in proximity to where the gangbanger was suggest that it was certainly a possibility...the darkness of the video also allows that the knife may have been present on the perp and simply fell out as he was shot.

But...let's just for shit's n' giggles stipulate that nope...no knife was on the perp....there just happened to be a knife in the pick-up bed and the officer just happened to get lucky serendipitously later by discovering the knife there.

I don't blame the cop. The guy was a known gangbanger, allegedly (and likely) involved in a violent incident earlier in the day, was in violation of parole and thus going back to the clink regardless perhaps raising the stakes for someone who was already deemed dangerous. I'd have an itchy trigger finger too when my own safety is at risk...and if I didn't get perfect compliance to a (perfectly) lawful order, I'd take it as a potential threat to my life without even thinking I saw a weapon.

[pOrk]

Looked like he started shooting a but early and a bit excessively, BUT the dude was squirly moving fast and not listing to orders. Ah well, another douche bites the dust

[animal]

It's pretty rare to see the cops smoke people that are following directions slowly and calmly. Strangely there's a correlation to following directions and living through the ordeal that people like this guy just don't seem to get.

[Nickerz]

Looked like he started shooting a but early and a bit excessively, BUT the dude was squirly moving fast and not listing to orders. Ah well, another douche bites the dust

Is this a serious post? Do you actually think someone deserves to die for that? What if someone started shouting at you in Oscars and dropped you in 2 seconds? Would that be justified because you were moving fast and not listening?

Seriously can't believe how ridiculous some people are on here. Divide and conquer at its finest.

[Prince Valiant]

Is this a serious post? Do you actually think someone deserves to die for that? What if someone started shouting at you in Oscars and dropped you in 2 seconds? Would that be justified because you were moving fast and not listening?

Seriously can't believe how ridiculous some people are on here. Divide and conquer at its finest.The problem is, he wasn't sitting at oscars.

But of course, we're the "ridiculous" ones :rolleyes:


so the guy...following orders...slides across to the passenger seat, to get out of the car to follow orders? That's the normal way to follow orders? With a knife mind you?
??

[Lash]

I'm just confused on the need for cuffs. The dude looked dead as shit.

If the cop would have quit shooting when the guy hit the ground we wouldn't be discussing any of this IMO. Little overkill on his part. But I don't know the history between this guy and the cops...so.....yeah.


For the record... Just before they roll him over to cuff him the untangle his foot from the seatbelt.

[Lash]

?With a knife mind you?
??
Devils advocate...

You know for a fact he had the knife in his hand?
If not, your statement is about as reliable as that article. Just sayin.

[Prince Valiant]

Devils advocate...

You know for a fact he had the knife in his hand?
If not, your statement is about as reliable as that article. Just sayin.
Not really :)

But, I did say previously: "While it's true that I don't see a knife either..."; And I still don't know, true.

But the reason my statement is not on the same level as the article is simply because:

1) There is no clear evidence that the perp who was shot DID NOT have a knife.
2) The officer immediately stated right after shooting that the perp had a knife.
3) Lo-and-behold, even the article concedes a knife was found in the bed.

The last two could simply be major coincidences...just that it stretches the limits of credulity.

While it's not irrefutable evidence that the perp did indeed have a knife, the preponderance of the evidence all points that it is very likely the perp did.

The fact is, if the police officer is accused in this situation, then it's likely he'd be found "not guilty" because there is only enough before us to conclude that there is "reasonable doubt". The video doesn't actually show for certain that the perp wasn't carrying a knife, and a reasonable reading of the evidence suggest he probably was. Quite simply, I at least have reasonable evidence on my side, while the paper has none.

On your point of "overkill" regarding the number of times shot, it's irrelevant. The point of shooting him isn't to bring him down alive, but to kill him. Whether the first bullet killed him or the last, it doesn't matter...but for that matter, the guy was still alive after the last shot was fired.

[Lash]

On your point of "overkill" regarding the number of times shot, it's irrelevant. The point of shooting him isn't to bring him down alive, but to kill him. Whether the first bullet killed him or the last, it doesn't matter...but for that matter, the guy was still alive after the last shot was fired.

Wrong. You shoot to stop the threat... Not shoot to kill.
If that cop would have said he shot to kill.... He'd be in deep shit. Sometimes I wonder where you pull this stuff out of.

[animal]

The guy did clearly "make a football move" after the command "don't you move or I'll shoot you." Cause > effect.

[kevcuda]

It is hard to leave your emotion on the table when dealing with people you know have or recently had a gun. A bit trigger happy if you ask me. LASH: What other way is there to stop a threat than to kill it? An injured threat is still a threat. Just a threat with a limp.

[LIL EVO]

I'm just confused on the need for cuffs. The dude looked dead as shit.

If the cop would have quit shooting when the guy hit the ground we wouldn't be discussing any of this IMO. Little overkill on his part. But I don't know the history between this guy and the cops...so.....yeah.


For the record... Just before they roll him over to cuff him the untangle his foot from the seatbelt.

Training, policy, procedure. Hard to understand the reality of it when you aren't trained.

Cops aren't trained doctors. They aren't licensed and certified to determine, take a pulse, and say, "yep he's dead".

That is why cuffs are put on. And for safety, since searches are done after someone is cuffed. Who's to say he doesn't have a grenade in his pocket and his last dying breath is taken pulling the pin?

Same with "why so many shots were fired?" Training, muscle memory, adrenaline. The officer probably couldn't recall firing half those rounds if he was asked.

Training is to shoot for the chin. That way the bullet will likely sever the spinal cord and stop the threat. Yep, that's what we are trained.

Why did he yell "knife!" with no one else around? Was he talking to himself? Training. That is what's burned into an officers mind during lethal force scenario training.

Also, lethal force distance with someone holding a knife is 21 feet. He looked to be around half that, if that.

It seems like the officer was making an approach and was startled by the fact that there was a weapon or he saw a weapon then saw the perp attempt to make motions towards a weapon and by that time its too late, the distance is too close, and lethal force was deemed necessary.
If you haven't been in a situation like that you just can't speculate and ask why certain things were or weren't done.

Remember the oak creek shooting dashcam? Go watch that and ask some questions like why was the perp shot while he was running away possibly 100-200 feet distance from the officer with a rifle? Couldn't they have just "kept an eye on him and tried to get him to surrender?"

The perp shot at the cop and hit the windshield, but the cop wasn't hurt.

Come on, get real.

Every one of these scenarios have similar example where the public will never understand.

[Rocket Power]

Lil evo FTW

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[bikedad]

Cops are dealing with mental instability. They can't read minds. They don't know what the perp is going to do. They don't want to die. They remove the threat and protect themselves. As Lil Evo said "The officer probably couldn't recall firing half those rounds if he was asked."
They were after the guy for a previous violent situation. He had a history of problems. This occurrence is a specific point in time. There's a hell of a lot more to the story than what we're seeing. The cops don't know if the perp is armed. It pretty much boils down to don't argue with the cop. It could be very bad for your health. Definitely don't make any sudden stupid moves that look menacing. If you're justified in your innocence then take it to a Judge after they handcuff you and get your story.

[venm4u97]

well said evo

[Mr Twigbert]

Well said Evo..

There's all this talk about if the guy had a knife or not.. But did anyone hear the cop yell, "DROP THE KNIFE" at the VERY beginning? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he probably saw a knife.. I doubt in that 1/2 second he had to start to call out commands, he looked into the bed, saw the knife and decided to in essence 'plant' it on the guy just for the sake of shooting him.. Oh hey, there's a knife in the bed so if I yell it out loud in front of the camera then I can shoot this guy and get away with it.. C'mon people..

All I know is I'm going home to my family and if you have a knife, make sudden movements, ignore my commands and are with in range of my person then guess what.. You'd and this dead guy would have something in common..

And Stew, you've always been anti-police.. But it's cool.. I'm anti-stupid ass so I guess me and you will never get along..

[animal]

:popcorn

[Prince Valiant]

Sometimes I wonder where you pull this stuff out of.Funny, cuz I never wonder a damn thing about you :(