WI dealer under fire for selling new GMC to dying, blind WWII vet

[DerangedPony]

Sadly not surprised. Full story and video after the link.


According to local news reports, a representative from Palmen Motors (http://www.palmenmotors.com/) visited Harold and Christen Thomsen's home to collect signatures for a loan agreement three weeks before the 89-year-old, legally blind Harold passed away. The World War II veteran was on morphine and in hospice when he signed for the GMC (http://www.autoblog.com/gmc/), and his 90-year-old wife suffers from dementia. Even so, upon being discovered, the dealer initially said everything was done "legally." According to Barb Tinkler, McMurray's sister, the sale was a scam that remained hidden until he was busted for an unrelated criminal charge.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/14/wi-dealer-under-fire-for-selling-new-gmc-to-dying-blind-89-year/#continued

[pOrk]

Meh, my uncle is legally blind and plows snow all winter long. Democrats will be democrats

[73MACH]

Meh, my uncle is legally blind and plows snow all winter long. Democrats will be democrats

Lol, what part of town pork? I think I'll avoid that area!

My great uncle is legally blind also and he drives all over the place also with no problems....but.....I have seen him walk into things alol.......scarey!

[pOrk]

Waukesha, he had a stroke that caused the partial blindness and blames EVERYONE for it, so if he hits someone its their fault they were in his way. Liberal as fuck

[Yooformula]

Thats a heartless greedy mofo. Blind is one thing but also laying in a bed dying?!? come on!

" The World War II veteran was on morphine and in hospice when he signed for the GMC, and his 90-year-old wife suffers from dementia."

[penji04]

Sounds like a crap ass kid to me hiding the car and making his parents sign. This never would have been an issue had he never been such a pos to his own parents.

[nismodave]

No surprise, All Dealers Sales Departments and Service are crooks.

[DynoTom]

No surprise, All Dealers Sales Departments and Service are crooks.

Yep, I really like cars but, to tell you the truth I don't like going through the buying process very much.

[pOrk]

We are only getting one side to this story. You think the sales guy goes door to door on the hosiptal looking for people to victimize? I doubt it

[Waver]

No surprise, All Dealers Sales Departments and Service are crooks.

With a few exceptions, right? lol

[-stew-]

If nothing illegal was done, who cares? Isn't this just another example for a free, unregulated market doing its own thing? I see no reason why a blind and dying person shouldn't be allowed to buy a truck.

[Prince Valiant]

If nothing illegal was done, who cares? Isn't this just another example for a free, unregulated market doing its own thing? I see no reason why a blind and dying person shouldn't be allowed to buy a truck.Um, something criminal/illegal was done. Whether the laws broken were done knowingly by the son alone or with complicit knowledge of the dealer should certainly be investigated too.

"unregulated free markets" aren't necessarily markets in the absence of laws. Their is quite a difference b/w regulation and laws, the two terms are not automatically interchangeable.

[-stew-]

What laws were broke? An elderly couple bought a car for their son. It's not illegal to sell someone a car they don't want, don't need, shouldn't have and or can't afford.

[Crawlin]

its a straw purchase then so its illegal. Just like a gun, if it was a financed vehicle(i didn't read the article) then it is a straw purchase if the person is of age to legally sign a contract. So if the person driving the vehicle is over 18 and the vehicle was to be financed, then that person should have been on the contract too. Now, of course a million times a year parents buy cars for their kids who are over 18 and dealers just ignore it. Technically though, it is illegal.

[OxmanWI]

Obviously the dealership is in the wrong because they bought the car back and closed out the loan to keep the family happy. When they do that, they are admitting guilt whether they have TV cameras on them or not. If they were innocent of any crime they would have fought it in the best interest of their business. I hope they get what’s coming to them. Crooks plain and simple.

[-stew-]

If the truck was still titled in the parents name, then they were the owners; and the son was driving his parents truck. That is not a straw purchase. Tell me again what laws were broken?

[Prince Valiant]

What laws were broke? An elderly couple bought a car for their son. It's not illegal to sell someone a car they don't want, don't need, shouldn't have and or can't afford.Financial exploitation of the elderly is a crime...defined as “the illegal taking, misuse, or concealment of funds, property, or assets of a vulnerable elder at risk for harm by another due to changes in physical functioning, mental functioning, or both." Laws cover people who at risk for exploitation either by age (60+ in WI), residency in a long-term care facility, mental or physical impairments....hey! We have all the bases covered here!!!

This was clearly a case of misusing the assets of an elderly couple for his own benefit.

To me, it's even more egregious and the dealer more on the hook since it doesn't sound like the son even had power of attorney or was a fiduciary, in which case, he still would have been in trouble given that by law, he'd had to act in his parents best interest, when this was clearly his own interest.

On top of that, any dealer should have recognized the fraud that was going on...and in fact, they may have been complicit in it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was an insurance fraud scam in the which the dealer played part: buy the car on loan, gets the insurance to cover the purchase in case of death/inability to pay, etc. Of course, with the purchaser in a hospice, he's on borrowed time anyways so when the inevitable happens, cost is covered.

[Crawlin]

If the truck was still titled in the parents name, then they were the owners; and the son was driving his parents truck. That is not a straw purchase. Tell me again what laws were broken?

Unfortunately, it IS... if a set of parents comes in and says we are financing this vehicle for our son, and the son/daughter was of legal age, we had the responsibility to tell the banks this. While you see a gray area, that's fine. I saw my job and the relationship with the bank as well as legal issues and the possibility of it all going wrong. Whether you want to believe it or not, I could care less. If the son came in to the dealership, and applied for a car and was denied, then applied for a car with the dad, and was denied, and then the parents applied for a loan and got the car without the son on it and the son was driving it, STRAW PURCHASE. You would even get denied straight from the bank you originally applied to because they knew it was a straw purchase. It listed it right on the denied sheet.

So all those guys who got guns from their girlfriends at Badger weren't straw purchases right? Even though they weren't able to own a gun(same as unable to finance a vehicle due to credit) the parents/girlfriend/etc... bought it and the other guy was just "shooting it" and "carrying it" right? So perfectly legal?

The funniest part about all this, again not having read the article and just assuming the worst, is that if the story was that a son was a POS that had no credit and was using his parents to buy him the car and it was in the parents name, when the parents passed away, HE would inherit the loan as well as the truck. So unless they had the credit life insurance on the car, he would be responsible for the balance. They would have him apply for a loan, he couldn't get it because of crappy credit, they would either sell the vehicle to cover the loan and any remaining balance would be charged to his credit as a collection if he didn't pay it. So NO car and an even worse credit position

[-stew-]

A gun is way different, if you cannot legally purchase a firearm, then you cannot legally posses a firearm. And if the above conditions were met, then it's a stupid law. If someone has shit credit, why do they make it illegal for their parents (or anyone else) illegal? What is the crime in, say, my mom/dad/parents buying a car and letting me use it?

[Prince Valiant]

my mom/dad/parents buying a car and letting me use it?There is no crime...if they do so of sound mind and function.

[nismodave]

With a few exceptions, right? lol

no

[PureSound15]

no

Quoted for truth and accuracy.

*not a satirical post*

[Waver]

So I am now a crook because I work in a dealership sales department.....interesting........

[Irish]

So I am now a crook because I work in a dealership sales department.....interesting........

I think that's what they are trying to say.

[Waver]

Good to know.......i will remember that the next time i sell someone a car from here. You see, i would NEVER do anything like this and actually left one dealership group once i found out they did shitty things like this. There are bad apples in every profession, but I would like to think of my self as a good one.

[PureSound15]

I don't think it has anything to do with the person. It has to do with the general culture that 99% of car dealerships have.

It's a competitive business with small margins (comparatively) which translates into a transaction that typically feels like the buyer is getting screwed.

Between the finance guy and the sales guy both trying to make a buck on the buyer - rarely does the buyer leave thinking it was a great experience.

[Irish]

I don't think it has anything to do with the person. It has to do with the general culture that 99% of car dealerships have.

It's a competitive business with small margins (comparatively) which translates into a transaction that typically feels like the buyer is getting screwed.

Between the finance guy and the sales guy both trying to make a buck on the buyer - rarely does the buyer leave thinking it was a great experience.

This.

Kinda like a girl dancing her way through college. Even though she might not be a cum guzzling coke whore doesn't mean that people won't think she is, based on her profession.

[Waver]

I don't think it has anything to do with the person. It has to do with the general culture that 99% of car dealerships have.

It's a competitive business with small margins (comparatively) which translates into a transaction that typically feels like the buyer is getting screwed.

Between the finance guy and the sales guy both trying to make a buck on the buyer - rarely does the buyer leave thinking it was a great experience.

This.

Kinda like a girl dancing her way through college. Even though she might not be a cum guzzling coke whore doesn't mean that people won't think she is, based on her profession.

Well said on both parts, and that was what I was getting at. I wish this was just an isolated instance, however for every one thing that gets into the news, I hear about 50 things that dont. There are many dealerships that I would refuse to set foot in my self because of their business practices and lack of ethics. However there are a few individual stores and sales people that are for the most part successful in making the customer happy.....you just dont hear that as often.

I think I have proven that I am not a crook. Not every sale will go perfect or has gone perfect, however I do what I can to make the customer happy the best that I can.

[michelle]

When I purchased my truck from a dealership (my one and only dealership experience), I was content with the deal made by the sales manager and myself. The finance guy - he was another story. He made me so uncomfortable and I ended up crying all the way home, while driving my new truck home. I'll go back to paying cash for all my future vehicles, as I have in the past.

[Korndogg]

This thread is making me remember how much I need a truck since mine is on its way out :/

[nismodave]

You know Im just busting your balls, Nick.

But the general rule at all dealerships is of deception and Bullshit.....You know this is true.

I dont fault you for being a car salesperson, its just guilt by association.

[Waver]

You know Im just busting your balls, Nick.

But the general rule are all dealerships is of deception and Bullshit.....You know this is true.

I dont fault you for being a car salesperson, its just guilt by association.

Understood Dave. I understood this when I got into the business.......