AR15 Stripped lowers

[Coops Brother]

New lowers made by Del-Ton, Inc.

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo88/coopthehdrider/2012-10-05_18-28-15_570.jpg



We will be at the West Bend gun show Oct. 19-21 and we have a few of these new lowers for $100.00 cash.

Shoot me an email if you want one of these, or if there is anything else I can bring down.

Brian

[Josepy]

3 M&P Shield in .40

[Coops Brother]

3 M&P Shield in .40

Right....how about a pistol that exists, they are not on the market yet.

[Josepy]

Right....how about a pistol that exists, they are not on the market yet.

Umm yes they are.

[Coops Brother]

No stock available at 7 distributors I checked. Looks like you will have to hit up gunbroker, I would call first to see it is actually in stock. Lots of auctions are for pre-orders on new stuff like that.

[Josepy]

No stock available at 7 distributors I checked. Looks like you will have to hit up gunbroker, I would call first to see it is actually in stock. Lots of auctions are for pre-orders on new stuff like that.

I though you said they were not on the market yet. :) I have Devin looking as well. I figure about 8 months to a year to get 1.

[spooln30]

Where's this gun show in West Ben?

[fivonut]

New lowers made by Del-Ton, Inc.

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo88/coopthehdrider/2012-10-05_18-28-15_570.jpg



We will be at the West Bend gun show Oct. 19-21 and we have a few of these new lowers for $100.00 cash.

Shoot me an email if you want one of these, or if there is anything else I can bring down.

Brian



Del-Ton = crap!!! ;)

[Coops Brother]

Del-Ton = crap!!! ;)

LOL I had that coming!!

The show is at the Washington Co fairgrounds.

Joe, I also said to check to see if they were in stock or they are taking pre orders.

[spooln30]

What do you guys think about DPMS AR 15 stuff? I want get into a AR15 and with so many makers out there i want to get a good rifle but I can't get into one too deep. I actually want to buy parts kits and build my own. I've worked on a few and there not hard to assemble. I found one from DPMS and its an entire kit minus the lower. I think it's a mil-spec but I'm not 100% is the barrel is chromed. Which I understand they should be.

[SSDude]

DPMS makes good stuf but there are others that will do you just as good. Rock River, Delton and Palmeto State all sell rifle kits. www.AR15.com has a lot of links to other manufactures as well.

[spooln30]

Cool thanks man, question, fivount above stated that Del-ton = crap? Is this true or a bias opinion due to the facg he sells rifles? No disrespect fivount. LOL.
I found a DPMS ar15 complete parts kit minus the lower for $530 from Brownell but it doesn't list it a having mil-spec parts. Is this a No-No in the ar15 world? I did find reviews with people saying even though it isn't a Mil Spec kit they love it and haven't had any issues. I want to get into a AR for under $750 max, in the $600 range would be better. I've been doing a lot of research and I have found parts that I really like and eventually Ill swap on so I'm guessing I shouldn't have any problems with interchanging parts from different manufacturers with a non mil spec rifle? A full auto Ar would be really nice, LOL, I can dream can't I. It would be really nice to find someone selling a pre 86 full auto Ar for way under $10k. I read we can own those without having a FFL licence.

[spooln30]

One more question, are chromed barrels and bolt the way to go?

[STANMAN]

Cool thanks man, question, fivount above stated that Del-ton = crap? Is this true or a bias opinion due to the facg he sells rifles? No disrespect fivount. LOL.
I found a DPMS ar15 complete parts kit minus the lower for $530 from Brownell but it doesn't list it a having mil-spec parts. Is this a No-No in the ar15 world? I did find reviews with people saying even though it isn't a Mil Spec kit they love it and haven't had any issues. I want to get into a AR for under $750 max, in the $600 range would be better. I've been doing a lot of research and I have found parts that I really like and eventually Ill swap on so I'm guessing I shouldn't have any problems with interchanging parts from different manufacturers with a non mil spec rifle? A full auto Ar would be really nice, LOL, I can dream can't I. It would be really nice to find someone selling a pre 86 full auto Ar for way under $10k. I read we can own those without having a FFL licence.

You need a type 3 license for full auto, I don't think you ever needed an FFL?

[fivonut]

LOL I had that coming!!

;)

[fivonut]

What do you guys think about DPMS AR 15 stuff? I want get into a AR15 and with so many makers out there i want to get a good rifle but I can't get into one too deep. I actually want to buy parts kits and build my own. I've worked on a few and there not hard to assemble. I found one from DPMS and its an entire kit minus the lower. I think it's a mil-spec but I'm not 100% is the barrel is chromed. Which I understand they should be.

Since you asked my opinion. Avoid at all costs. I have been pleased with their barrels and that's about it. I've used their rifle kits, sold complete rifles, used parts etc. The complete rifles had a lot of slop between the upper and lower. According to a few industry sources DPMS is using MIM (Metal Injection Molded) triggers and hammers.

I know a lot of people with DPMS rifles that never have a function issue. But given the lower end quality of the parts I personally don't recommend them. The only rifle I've ever had a problem with was a DPMS. A customer bought a complete rifle and it kept breaking trigger pins. DPMS kept sending him new pins but they kept breaking. Eventually I put a forged trigger group in it that I use with new pins and he hasn't had a problem since. This is just one rifle with one problem. Again, my personal opinion.

[fivonut]

Cool thanks man, question, fivount above stated that Del-ton = crap? Is this true or a bias opinion due to the facg he sells rifles? No disrespect fivount. LOL.
I found a DPMS ar15 complete parts kit minus the lower for $530 from Brownell but it doesn't list it a having mil-spec parts. Is this a No-No in the ar15 world? I did find reviews with people saying even though it isn't a Mil Spec kit they love it and haven't had any issues. I want to get into a AR for under $750 max, in the $600 range would be better. I've been doing a lot of research and I have found parts that I really like and eventually Ill swap on so I'm guessing I shouldn't have any problems with interchanging parts from different manufacturers with a non mil spec rifle? A full auto Ar would be really nice, LOL, I can dream can't I. It would be really nice to find someone selling a pre 86 full auto Ar for way under $10k. I read we can own those without having a FFL licence.

Del-Ton actually makes a good lower. I was giving Brian shit for advertising one of my competitors (not that they are much competition :rolf )

I have a production rifle I make right now I call the RT-15ES. It is a basic M4 style rifle built on my lower. They have 4150 chromemoly barrels 1:9 twist, forged trigger groups and include one Magpul PMAG. They do use a commercial spec receiver extension but the only difference between a commercial spec and a milspec is the outside diameter of the tube. So, with a commercial spec tube you actually get thicker walls. In my mind thicker walls= greater strength, but also more weight. Price is $750. Add a 2 piece quad rail for $100. I have them with front sight base or rail height gas block.

[fivonut]

One more question, are chromed barrels and bolt the way to go?

No and maybe. The military chromes barrels for longevity and resistance to wear when used in auto. The process of chrome lining the bore creates imperfections that can affect accuracy. For a civilian rifle a 4140 or 4150 chromemoly non-chromed barrel will likely you longer than you'll ever shoot it and it will tend to be more accurate.

Chrome bolt carrier groups are easier to clean and that's all. Same with Nickel Boron carrier groups. They don't add much else to the rifle.

[fivonut]

You need a type 3 license for full auto, I don't think you ever needed an FFL?

To own a full auto you need to purchase a transferable automatic. This basically means an automatic manufactured prior to May(ish) 1986, registered with the ATF, and currently on their list of transferable automatics. It will cost you $200 for the approval stamp and requires filling out either a form 3 or a form 4. There is no license you can buy that bypasses any of that.

A dealer licensed as an 01 FFL can pay an annual Special Occupational Tax to become a Class 3 dealer allowing them to transfer NFA firearms (SBS, SBR, Suppressor, Autos).

A manufacturer licensed as an 07 FFL can pay an annual Special Occupational Tax to become a Class 2 manufacturer allowing them to manufacture and transfer NFA firearms (SBS, SBR, Suppressor, and yes full auto)

How's that for a ton of information you never wanted to know!

[spooln30]

Here's the parts kit I'm thinking of buying. I can upgrade any of the parts if need be, like the trigger pin if thats a problem. Btw this kit doesn't come with a lower so getting a better one from another manufacturer should fix the sloppyness? I'm looking at the Oracle kit. I think for the money and how I will use this gun, it should work out great for me. Do you guys think this would be worth the time and money? Thx guys.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=45263/Product/5-56-ORACLE-KIT

[Coops Brother]

The term "sloppy" is relative... this is because "mil-spec" means there is a max and minimun tolerance for the machined parts. Take this example, ABC pin fits into XYZ hole, mil-spec on the pin is .250" +/- .003", mil-spec on the hole is .257" +/- .003"....Now if you have a pin machined at the max. tolerance of .253" and a hole machined to the minimum spec of .254" you wind up with .001" clearance... a tight fit. Now on the other hand, if you have a pin at the minimum, .247" and hole at the max, .260" you have .013" clearance, and a "sloppy" feel. So you could take your upper and go around to different lowers and custom fit them, or just buy an accu-wedge and tighten things up.

I have a DPMS 24" rifle, bought in 2005 and shot at least 2000 rounds per year, at least. Thats 14,000 rds... the rifle started out with a decent fit between the upper and lower, now it has a little more movement. Does it affect the accuracy? Nope, not at all.

Also, none of my DPMS fire control part broke either...

[Russ Jerome]

^^^ correct again, simply looking at the design of that firearm tells you 100% of accuracy is related to upper. upper alone.

My annual question now that I see the prices dropping: How much for the cheapest, ugliest, "dont care what its made of" AR10 lower?
I've seen some kinda reasonable 260 uppers, just need a cheap azz lower to mate it too....mate I always get warm saying that!

[SSDude]

Here's the parts kit I'm thinking of buying. I can upgrade any of the parts if need be, like the trigger pin if thats a problem. Btw this kit doesn't come with a lower so getting a better one from another manufacturer should fix the sloppyness? I'm looking at the Oracle kit. I think for the money and how I will use this gun, it should work out great for me. Do you guys think this would be worth the time and money? Thx guys.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=45263/Product/5-56-ORACLE-KIT

I wouldn't hesitate in picking up a Delton lower from Brian. I have two of them that fit well with my various upper assemblies. I'm sure Reaper Tacticle would be a find choice as well.
Delton makes a variety of rifle kits that can be customized and it should mate up great to a Delton lower. http://www.del-ton.com/ar_15_kits_s/1.htm
The Brownell kit looks like you'll need to do the barrel assembly if you have the tools and are comfortable with that. Getting an assembled upper that comes with the bolt carrier group usually means its been head spaced and test fired.

[fivonut]

The term "sloppy" is relative... this is because "mil-spec" means there is a max and minimun tolerance for the machined parts. Take this example, ABC pin fits into XYZ hole, mil-spec on the pin is .250" +/- .003", mil-spec on the hole is .257" +/- .003"....Now if you have a pin machined at the max. tolerance of .253" and a hole machined to the minimum spec of .254" you wind up with .001" clearance... a tight fit. Now on the other hand, if you have a pin at the minimum, .247" and hole at the max, .260" you have .013" clearance, and a "sloppy" feel. So you could take your upper and go around to different lowers and custom fit them, or just buy an accu-wedge and tighten things up.

I have a DPMS 24" rifle, bought in 2005 and shot at least 2000 rounds per year, at least. Thats 14,000 rds... the rifle started out with a decent fit between the upper and lower, now it has a little more movement. Does it affect the accuracy? Nope, not at all.

Also, none of my DPMS fire control part broke either...

Many things about the AR platform are relative. Somebody asked for an opinion so I gave mine. Course, you know my feelings about DPMS. That doesn't mean every rifle they sell is going to fall apart with the first pull of the trigger. I've simply heard industry rumors about the direction they are heading with their manufacturing outsourcing practices that bother me so I avoid them to play it safe. Doesn't mean it's true or everyone else has to follow my lead.

Back to the original topic, Del-ton makes a fine lower. I have no complaints, I was simply giving Brian shit.

Regarding manufacturing tolerances, there are companies that hold tighter than milspec tolerances, therefore you get a more consistent fit. For example the manufacturer that cuts my receivers holds tolerances to +/- .001".

In the end (like already said), the accuracy of the rifle lies in the upper. Some hobby builders want tighter tolerances and if that's what you're looking for spend more money. In the end almost all of them will propel a projectile.

[spooln30]

Yeah I've assembled 2 AR 15's already. So I know how they go together and I also have the barrel wrench and other tools to do so. I also have a go no-go set in 5.56.