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Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay
05-08-2012, 07:09 PM
For those of you that care and maintain your lawn, what do you recommend for a dandelion,thistle bush, crab grass killer? When is the best time to apply?

Also looking for a recommendation for filling bare spots.

jbiscuit
05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
Scotts with Halts Crabgrass preventer will stop crabgrass from popping up next year but you'll have to do a liquid application to "kill" it this year. Scotts Weed B Gone max with crabgrass preventer that hooks up to the hose works great. Buy that. For dandelion, Scotts Weed n Feed (yellow bag). Good for the grass (fertilizer) and kills weeds. Sprinkle a little directly on the dandelions to kill them quickly. Careful tho this stuff will burn your lawn if you aren't careful. Milorganite for thickening the lawn, color etc. Cheap and put it down as heavy as you can afford. The lawn will love it

Reverend Cooper
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
some urine

michelle
05-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Get some dogs. They are excellent at lawn maintenance.

Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay
05-09-2012, 06:04 AM
Thanks for the input J.

jbiscuit
05-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Not a prob. I have been experiementing with fertilizers for years now. I have my own stepped program:

1. Scotts with the Halts Crabgrass Preventer EARLY in the season....usually april. This year the spring came so early so I think I had mine down late March

2. Milorganite about 2 weeks after that Scotts application. YOu can put it down anytime you want but I would wait a few weeks at least to maximize the effect on the lawn. Put it down just like the back of the bag says. You'll go through A LOT.

3. Scotts Turf Builder Plus Weed Control (yellow bag). I use the entire bag on the lawn. Try and get this down before the first dandelion pops up. If you see one in your neighbor's yard, you want to put it down that day. Cuz his dandelions will be yours in 1-2 days.

4. Wait 3-4 weeks and do another Milorganite application. Again, put it down pretty HEAVY. I have roughly 13,000SF yard and it takes 5 entire bags. If you buy it when its on sale at Farm n Fleet, you can get it for like $5 a bag

You can always overseed your lawn too if you REALLY want it thick. I did this for 3 years in a row at my last house and when I sold the place the backyard was like carpet....and all my surrounding neighbors had dandelions/crabgrass/leafy shit yet my lawn had ZERO.

http://i47.tinypic.com/wog0i.jpg

Car Guy
05-09-2012, 01:14 PM
That grass is not real J, no way. :thumbsup

animal
05-09-2012, 01:15 PM
I look at that pic and all I can think of is "J, you bastard."

My lawn looks like shit, always.

BlueOvalBolt
05-09-2012, 03:02 PM
Totally agree with jbiscuit's approach. The only 2 things I would add is doing another Turf Builder w/Summergard in late July or early August and Turf Builder made for fall feeding in late September. I found the fall feeding and the Milorganite to be key steps.

I sold my house and bought a condo so I don't get to play in the lawn anymore but it was fun. The biggest challenge was keeping the weeds at bay from the asshat next door who cut his grass twice a year whether it needed it or not.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n01z86.jpg

DirtyMax
05-09-2012, 03:45 PM
I have to forego the pellet type fertilizers because of my 3 dogs. I usually treat with Spectracide weed and crabgrass killer (bottle on the hose) early in the season (late March, early April). I put that down when I leave for work and 8-10 hours later, they say it's OK for pets to be on the treated areas. I usually never get more than a handful of dandelions. My yard usually looks better with this sub-$10 bottle of product than my neighbors yards who pay $50 per treatment a few times per year.

Then throughout the summer, I spot treat the problem areas. My neighbors on both sides have a ton of Creepin' Charlie (aka ground ivy) and don't do anything about it. That stuff it ruthless. So it makes it way into my yard all the time, hence the need to spot treat that stuff.

Then I usually applied Milorganite on/around the 3 spring/summer holidays (Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day). I had to stop doing it this often because my lawn was growing too much and I was having to mow the grass every 3-4 days.

Despite the 3 dogs, my yard looks pretty decent.

badass88gt
05-09-2012, 04:32 PM
Some good advice here, I'm familiar with the complete Scott's system but what is milorganite? Is that just a phosphorous fertilizer or what?

PureSound15
05-09-2012, 04:33 PM
Some good advice here, I'm familiar with the complete Scott's system but what is milorganite? Is that just a phosphorous fertilizer or what?

Poop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jbiscuit
05-09-2012, 04:37 PM
BlueOvalBolt's suggestions work well also. I just know how expensive the Scotts stuff can be. I have found that if you use Milorganite throughout the season (even summer) your lawn will be so hearty it will be fine late into fall/winter. I used the Fall Turf Builder once, forgot to use it the following year and have never gone back to doing it.

Here is my lawn at the new house. This lawn is new. Seeded it September. But for reference, look at the color. All my neighbor's PAY for chemical applications. I'm too cheap to do that.
http://i48.tinypic.com/20ha4p5.jpg

Here is the same view Sept 2011
http://i50.tinypic.com/jzfehh.jpg

wrath
05-10-2012, 05:20 AM
I have found that wild turkeys and chickens keep a lot of the weeds at bay. Overseeding will crowd out most weeds. I do have some broadleaf weeds and I have to go after the creeping charlie by hand but other than that I don't have to spray anything. I do get weeds wherever I disturb the grass (dig holes, grind stumps) but once the grass gets a foothold the weeds die.

Anyway, I'd try overseeding.

jbiscuit
05-10-2012, 07:48 AM
And if Wrath says overseeding will work you can bet that is from years of research. Analyzing farmers almanac data, watching weather formations and humidity levels for optimized seed germination, Soil density calculations based on a 100 year average of compaction rates and nutrient research LOL

badass88gt
05-10-2012, 08:15 AM
What is the procedure for overseeding, is at simple as just applying grass seed with a broadcast spreader or what's the deal, I am very interested in this.

jbiscuit
05-10-2012, 10:25 AM
Depending on size of yard, I have always done it after a thatching, which also roughs up the top of the soil at the base of your existing lawn. At my current house, there is no way I could thatch that by hand. Wait till after a good rain, broadcast spread the seed so it makes good contact with the damp soil. Remember that grass will off-shoot. So even a little seed on your entire lawn will thicken it as long as the birds don't eat it, a heavy rain doesn't wash it out etc.

Once it germinates, rain will help it grow in thicker. Milorganite will feed to fresh new grass also

badass88gt
05-10-2012, 10:39 AM
Ok is there a specific time of year or anytime I feel like it? We have a dry spell coming up now for the next week or so, might be a good time since I can control the watering with worrying about rain. Maybe a drop spreader would he better? My dad has both, I only have a broadcast.

Haulin' Oates
05-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Good thread you got going here. I am lazy and use Chemlawn (they do it very cheaply, I think they mis-quoted my yard). I have heard that overseeding is best done in fall. Can we get away with doing it in the spring/this time of year? I have some areas that need to fill in.

Prince Valiant
05-10-2012, 11:01 AM
For me, fall is what sets up the rest of the year...as it cools down, weeds recess so that when you want to get the lawn thick and lush. Overseed in early fall, address any thin areas by patch repairing, milorganite is best used in the fall too since many weed n' feeds will kill young grass, aerate the lawn, and water frequently...also when you mow, cut it so that the grass is longer. By aerating and being aggressive with milorganite, you'll allow the grass roots to grow much longer and stronger, crowding out the weeds/dandelions for the next spring.

JC70SS
05-10-2012, 12:00 PM
Dirty,
Does that pectracide kill the creepy charlie? That shit is impossible to deal with




I have to forego the pellet type fertilizers because of my 3 dogs. I usually treat with Spectracide weed and crabgrass killer (bottle on the hose) early in the season (late March, early April). I put that down when I leave for work and 8-10 hours later, they say it's OK for pets to be on the treated areas. I usually never get more than a handful of dandelions. My yard usually looks better with this sub-$10 bottle of product than my neighbors yards who pay $50 per treatment a few times per year.

Then throughout the summer, I spot treat the problem areas. My neighbors on both sides have a ton of Creepin' Charlie (aka ground ivy) and don't do anything about it. That stuff it ruthless. So it makes it way into my yard all the time, hence the need to spot treat that stuff.

Then I usually applied Milorganite on/around the 3 spring/summer holidays (Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day). I had to stop doing it this often because my lawn was growing too much and I was having to mow the grass every 3-4 days.

Despite the 3 dogs, my yard looks pretty decent.

badass88gt
05-10-2012, 12:03 PM
I never knew the weeds in my yard had names, LOL. I know I have a ton of clover, I also have a lot of mossy bald spots in the back near some spruce trees.

Is the Milorganite supposed to be applied to wet lawn or dry?

JC70SS
05-10-2012, 12:03 PM
So J I can just put seed in the spreader and spread it? Has anyone ever heard of slit seeding?




Depending on size of yard, I have always done it after a thatching, which also roughs up the top of the soil at the base of your existing lawn. At my current house, there is no way I could thatch that by hand. Wait till after a good rain, broadcast spread the seed so it makes good contact with the damp soil. Remember that grass will off-shoot. So even a little seed on your entire lawn will thicken it as long as the birds don't eat it, a heavy rain doesn't wash it out etc.

Once it germinates, rain will help it grow in thicker. Milorganite will feed to fresh new grass also

PureSound15
05-10-2012, 12:48 PM
So J I can just put seed in the spreader and spread it? Has anyone ever heard of slit seeding?

Yes. This is how babies are made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BlueOvalBolt
05-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Is the Milorganite supposed to be applied to wet lawn or dry?

Either but when applying to a dry lawn, watering it in afterwards helps. Go to http://www.milorganite.com/ for some excellent info on the benefits of Milorganite. It also has some good basic lawn maintenance tips.

jbiscuit
05-10-2012, 01:03 PM
So J I can just put seed in the spreader and spread it? Has anyone ever heard of slit seeding?

Yep, just spread it. Like I mentioned earlier, the best way to get the seed to "take" is if it makes contact with the soil....ideally just BELOW the surface. That isn't always possible however. If you wait till a good rain, then try and get the seed down right away after the rain stops, the moisture in the soil will allow the seed to stick/stay in place. Improving your chances of it germinating. Also worth noting, a lot of landscape companies will sell their blend of seed. It is sometimes cheaper than buying from Steins/Lowes etc. If anyone wants the name of the guy I dealth with for my lawn, I can give that to you. Does really good work, fast, and reasonable. Sells his seed blend also which is a mix of Kentucky Blue and some perrenial rye. Gives a great balance of heartiness and dark green color. My lawn is the darkest green on my circle.

jbiscuit
05-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Dirty,
Does that pectracide kill the creepy charlie? That shit is impossible to deal with

Ortho and Scotts make a liquid treatment that you can hook to your hose or buy concentrated for use in your own sprayer that WILL get rid of the Creeping Charlie and other leafy/clover shit. Spot spray it. Pick a day with now rain for the next couple forcasted, spray the Charlie and other clover in the lawn, wait like 4-5 days or so and you should see it change color (browning). Meaning you got it. It will take a little bit for it to entirely disappear from your lawn. Be prepared to spot seed that area if the weed was really thick. Lot of times it will choke out the lawn, killing the grass leaving behind a few bare spots. No biggie. I have found the Scotts Patchmaster with the seed, fertilizer, pulp all in one bag mix to work perfect for stuff like this. Throw some down, wet it twice a day and 98% of the time will grow nicely

jbiscuit
05-10-2012, 01:13 PM
And just to point it out, you can seed anytime during the active growing season. Right now is a perfect time to try and grow grass. If the temps are ANY colder than this it WILL NOT germinate. So what if you put seed down in March? No problem, just know it might take longer than the typical 21 day germination period. May-June and September are the BEST months to grow grass.

Cryptic
05-10-2012, 01:45 PM
I cheaped out last year and didn't spend anything on the lawn. Last week I pulled 3 wheelbarrows full of dandelions I hand plucked from the ground and I'm only half way done. Lesson learned. You really need to keep up with it.

I know Ace Hardware rents gas powered thatchers. I might give that a shot and try over seeding. My lawn is huge. It takes 2.5 big bags to cover it well. It gets expensive quick. I used Stein's weed and feed instead of Scott's this year. It definitely greened up the lawn. It was $36/bag I think for the 15,000 sq ft bags.

Jay, where do you buy your seed at what's a good price?

DirtyMax
05-10-2012, 02:06 PM
Dirty,
Does that pectracide kill the creepy charlie? That shit is impossible to deal with

It does a pretty good job. I usually keep the bottom 1/4 of the bottle and dump it into a small spray bottle and treat the pesky areas with that full strength concentrate.

You're right though, that stuff is a major PITA. I try to spray the edges of the neighbor's yards as well but that stuff is so invasive that I am constantly fighting it!

DirtyMax
05-10-2012, 02:15 PM
And a friendly PSA... even though Milorganite is mostly "poop", if you stop your spreader in one spot because you were momentarily distracted, it will kill the patch of grass below it, regardless of your attempts to spread that spilled fertilizer around.

Don't ask me how I know...

wrath
05-11-2012, 05:28 AM
A healthy lawn needs no chemicals. Decent soil allows grass to crowd out most everything else. Overseeding, especially on a lawn where people bag the shit out of it, is usually successful.

Ever notice in the woods that where you find grass there are no weeds? Ever notice that 60 years ago nobody sprayed anything manufactured on their lawns and it was nice?

Weeds only win in the absence of grass. If the grass is given an opportunity, it will win. Unless you have cheap grass, it will survive lack of water way better than weeds. However, if you water it all the time then the weeds get watered all the time and the grass' roots only go down about an inch... instead of 2.5" to 3.5".

Milorganite is cooked human feces. You're better off doing it the old fashioned way: dry horse manure or chicken manure.

jbiscuit
05-11-2012, 07:16 AM
^ Not true. Grass need nutrients to grow thicker and combat the weeds. Now you don't have to use "Weed n Feed" type products on your lawn as long as your lawn meets the following:

1)You don't have a dandelion/Creeping Charlie farm next door. If you neighbor doesn't take care of his lawn and you choose to not use products to protect yours, you are in for it. GUARANTEED.

2)Your lawn is very well established. 15+ years old, no crab grass, very thick and the area where you live gets good soaking rains. Because again, once late June hits and things dry up, in come the weeds.

And its a little funny that you bash or suggest a method INSTEAD of Milorganite. I can tell you that in my experience working for a golf course and a landscaping company that both industries recommend HEAVILY the benefits of Milorganite. Call it whatever you want but the photos are posted in this thread. IT WORKS, ITS CHEAP, AND IT COMES IN A BAG THAT IS EASY TO USE. No way would I recommend someone shoveling horse manure out onto their lawn!

But you do what you want Wrath! But can't argue with results homie!

Prince Valiant
05-11-2012, 08:24 AM
Ever notice in the woods that where you find grass there are no weeds?
Walk the dogs every day in the woods where there is grass...and plenty of weeds.

badass88gt
05-11-2012, 08:25 AM
I just put down the Scott's Plus 2 this week, how long should I wait if I want to overseed? I also want to Milorganite, should I overseed first or Milorganite first, and how long should I wait for each step?

jbiscuit
05-11-2012, 04:50 PM
You can probably overseed soon, like next week. Knowing that normal germination takes 21 days you should be safe. You can milorganite whenever you want. If anything, do the milorganite in 2-3 weeks from now to get the full benefit. Sounds like a great plan!

wrath
05-11-2012, 09:15 PM
Unless you are growing the wrong kind of grass for the area or are mowing it at the wrong height, grass will win.

If you bought a ticky-tacky box on a postage stamp where the contractor took away all the topsoil to sell to some other schmuck in a ticky-tacky box then you're pretty much doomed. Grass doesn't grow on junk soil. You'll essentially end up with hydroponics because the soil is barren. Only way you are going to escape jbiscuitness is if you strip it and get 6-10" of topsoil or add an inch on top every year. You can do this with a spreader but they're not cheap. Same thing I used to use to spread dry horse and cow manure.

In the long run it will be cheaper to let the lawn take care of itself and not fertilize, bag, or water.

Definitely fertilize, water, and spend extra time getting the grass established... but there is no need to waste your time and poison the ground if you give the grass an opportunity.

I'm one of those goofballs that doesn't bag either. I don't de-thatch either, I've never seen a lawn that wasn't overfertilized and overwatered build up 1/2" of thatch or more (where it becomes detrimental).

I like to go barefoot on my lawn though, so maybe that's why I'd rather not use chemicals. And I don't like pumping water all over the place. And I'm cheap. I definitely don't like the idea of having human waste on my lawn, cooked or not, complete with heavy metals. Then again I don't eat mushrooms from China either.

-stew-
05-11-2012, 10:30 PM
If there's any grass in my yard if fell out of my stash, man. And I'll rake it myself.

05caddyext
05-12-2012, 02:00 AM
Plus 2 will stop new seed from growing. You should not put weed and feed near any area that you want new grass to grow. It will treat the seed ss a weed and not allow it to germinate. You can rent an overseeder that cuts slits into the soil. It has a hopper you fill with seed all in one step. I work at a moderate sized ace hardware and I sell about 30 pallets of milorganite a year. Highly recommend this shit ha

Reverend Cooper
05-12-2012, 06:44 AM
Not a prob. I have been experiementing with fertilizers for years now. I have my own stepped program:

1. Scotts with the Halts Crabgrass Preventer EARLY in the season....usually april. This year the spring came so early so I think I had mine down late March

2. Milorganite about 2 weeks after that Scotts application. YOu can put it down anytime you want but I would wait a few weeks at least to maximize the effect on the lawn. Put it down just like the back of the bag says. You'll go through A LOT.

3. Scotts Turf Builder Plus Weed Control (yellow bag). I use the entire bag on the lawn. Try and get this down before the first dandelion pops up. If you see one in your neighbor's yard, you want to put it down that day. Cuz his dandelions will be yours in 1-2 days.

4. Wait 3-4 weeks and do another Milorganite application. Again, put it down pretty HEAVY. I have roughly 13,000SF yard and it takes 5 entire bags. If you buy it when its on sale at Farm n Fleet, you can get it for like $5 a bag

You can always overseed your lawn too if you REALLY want it thick. I did this for 3 years in a row at my last house and when I sold the place the backyard was like carpet....and all my surrounding neighbors had dandelions/crabgrass/leafy shit yet my lawn had ZERO.

http://i47.tinypic.com/wog0i.jpg

Man I wanna poop in that yard!

badass88gt
05-21-2012, 04:55 PM
My dandelions are now nice and curly, do you guys just let the curled stems decompose or mow them out or what? Ive been mowing at the highest setting so it doesnt look to nice with all those curled up dandelion stems in the grass.