New Orleans Saints Investigation.....

[GTSLOW]

Wow anyone here about this?



After a lengthy investigation conducted by the NFL's security department, the league announced Friday that 22 to 27 defensive players on the New Orleans Saints maintained a "pay for performance" program that included "bounty" payments administered by then-defensive coordinator Gregg Williams during the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons.

The program runs in violation of league rules, and the investigation showed that Saints players received $1,500 for a "knockout" hit and $1,000 for a "cart-off" hit with payouts doubling or tripling during the team's three playoff appearances. A memo sent to clubs throughout the league included a statement on how Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma put up $10,000 cash as a bounty before a playoff game, a source familiar with the memo told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82757bcd/article/nfl-says-saints-created-bounty-program-from-20092011?module=HP11_headline_stack

Can you say loss of draft picks?

[Holeshot]

Saw it on the news tonight. Watching Favre getting hammered over and over again by the Saints D line. LMAO

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[spooln30]

LOL......Well I guess that didn't "PAYOFF" for them because their defense kinda sucked two out of the 3 seasons listed. 25th ranked for 2009/2011 and 4th ranked for 2010.

[spooln30]

Saw it on the news tonight. Watching Favre getting hammered over and over again by the Saints D line. LMAO

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Farve wasn't our QB when the payoffs happened.

[spooln30]

Saw it on the news tonight. Watching Favre getting hammered over and over again by the Saints D line. LMAO

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Farve wasn't our QB when the "bonuses" happened.

[GTSLOW]

I guess teams/owners will get to voice their opinion on this at the annual meeting. I bet that's gonna go well for the saints. LOL the owner and GM even knew about it!

[WhatsADSM]

Ouch!

Although, those amounts seem like chump change for those guys. Not sure how much that would actually amp them up to go knock somebody out.

[Holeshot]

Yeah I know. Channel 4 was showing Favre as a Viking getting slammed over and over on their footage of the story tonight.



Farve wasn't our QB when the "bonuses" happened.

[GTSLOW]

:rolf the nfl.com video has the same footage of Favre getting leveled. Also this would mean when we played the Saints in the opener this year a player got a bonus when Tramon Williams got his shoulder injured. I'm sure the Vikings/Cards are going to be livid about this next year. They tried to say something.....

Saw earlier on ESPN that goodell could strip the saints of their franchise tag!

[spooln30]

Wow I totally forgot Farve played after he left the Packers. LOL.

[Yooformula]

goddell better do something big otherwise all the fines he levied against certain players will seem like even bigger horseshit and all of his rhetoric about player safety will blow up bigtime in his face

[GHOSST]

QB's better learn how to get out that pocket like A-Rod then, hahaha.

Although I don't condone what they are doing, it is the NFL, and it is their own money. Your risk for NOT getting injured in a sport like the is NFL slim to none. I mean its the job and plan to knock the QB out in anyway you can, I'm sure that's the main goal when it comes to QB's like Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Brady. But I agree they might have let the "incentives" and gentleman's bets get the better of them, and it could get waaaay out of hand in the future. I just see a violation of NFL policies, nothing more. I really don't see an ethics violation in Football, lol.

I wonder what the purse was on Vick, that dude gets punished on the field! Haha

[VroomPshhTsi]

I wonder what the purse was on Vick, that dude gets punished on the field! Haha

Not enough for what that piece of shit did.

[GHOSST]

Not enough for what that piece of shit did.

Exactly, I just find it funny how he's like all bruised ribs and banged up, maybe his O-line had a pot going, haha.

[brotherbenn83]

Not enough for what that piece of shit did.

They are/were just dogs...

[STANMAN]

They are/were just dogs...

This. I am SO sick of animals having more rights than humans. I love animals, I respect animals, I would never do what Mike Vick did, I don't condone it, it's not my thing, I love (most) peoples pets, but at the end of the day, they were just dogs. In other societies they are just another protien on the menu. How about Ray Lewis, he KILLED A PERSON with his bare hands (yeah, he got someone else to take the fall, but he did it, the world knows it, just like OJ), Donte Stallworth killed someone because he got behind the wheel drunk, neither of them spent (significant) time in jail. There's people out there who have molested innocent children and done awful things to other PEOPLE that got less time than Vick, now THAT'S sickening!

Like Chris Griffin said to Brian "You're just a dog Brian, you don't have a soul!"

[88Nightmare]

Maybe the punishment (or lack thereof) is simply too lenient for human on human crimes as opposed to human on animal crimes viewed as too stiff...

[michelle]

This. I am SO sick of animals having more rights than humans. I love animals, I respect animals, I would never do what Mike Vick did, I don't condone it, it's not my thing, I love (most) peoples pets, but at the end of the day, they were just dogs. In other societies they are just another protien on the menu. How about Ray Lewis, he KILLED A PERSON with his bare hands (yeah, he got someone else to take the fall, but he did it, the world knows it, just like OJ), Donte Stallworth killed someone because he got behind the wheel drunk, neither of them spent (significant) time in jail. There's people out there who have molested innocent children and done awful things to other PEOPLE that got less time than Vick, now THAT'S sickening!

Like Chris Griffin said to Brian "You're just a dog Brian, you don't have a soul!"

Just because the punishments against other crimes are not strong enough, doesn't mean that the crimes against defenseless animals should be knocked down. There are numerous crimes that deserve higher punishments and it's a shame that more isn't done to fix that. The laws against animal cruelty are no where near where they should be. Same for DUI, child molestation/neglect, murder, etc.

[BOSS LX]

It is football, if the hit is legal I see no issue!

[STANMAN]

Millions of chickens/turkeys/cows live in conditions far worse, for far longer, and at the end of their awful existance they are herded into a slaughterhouse. What is different about what Mike Vick did? Well, up until the moment they died fighting they lived a pretty good life, they were treated and cared for very well (by all accounts fighting dogs/chickens/bulls are huge investments and treated as such). Because some people bet on it and the dogs were not consumed afterwards it's something he should have went to jail for?

Again, I am not saying what he did was right, am not condoning it as OK, but look at the larger picture, there is a reason we were given dominion over animals by our Creator, so that when they die and we consume their flesh it is not a sin. That being said, we, as their caretakers, should provide due dilligence to treat them as the God's creatures that they are.

And I agree with Mike and Michelle, one crime's punishement should not validate another crime's punishment, but in today's society that's just how it works. The trend has been that animals have been given increasingly human rights, and "flame suit on", I am just not OK with that.

[pOrk]

Wow this thread went to shit quick.

[STANMAN]

Oh, and on the New Orleans thing, yeah, there's going to be some hefty fines and loss of something (draft picks, franchise tag ability, ect..) for sure.

[BoosTT]

Don't think fighting dogs lived a nice life. They are hung by their jaw for many hours to build jaw muscles. But I also don't really care. There's a lot of sick freaks out there.

[VroomPshhTsi]

Well, up until the moment they died fighting they lived a pretty good life, they were treated and cared for very well.

This could not be further from the truth.

[GTSLOW]

Wow this thread went to shit quick.

Do you even know who or what the Saints are? :goof

[animal]

:popcorn

[STANMAN]

This could not be further from the truth.

I see that you only quoted my statement as you saw fit. My qoute had a qualifier on the end. Your qoute has no such qualifier, so please expound on your first hand knowledge of the subject, or are you also going on by something you have read or heard? I see it like this, there is a difference between faith and fact. I have never seen China, I have read books about it, I have seen it on TV and I have faith that it exists, unlike unicorns, zombies or dragons, which I have also read about and see on TV and do not have any faith that they exist. I grew up in Delafield, I shop at Brookfield Square, and I drive a Mustang and a Taurus (not at the same time), those are facts. Anything that you have no personal knowledge of is simply faith when it all boils down to it.

So again, without a qualifier at the end of your statement (unlike my statement that you qouted incorrectly) you are makeing a factual statement and have therefore must have some firsthand knowledge of dogfighting. I always enjoy hearing an expert speak on a subject, so please inform us how these dogs/chickens/bulls are treated and what your backgroud is that allows you to make factual comments about the subject matter.

[05caddyext]

http://www.dogsinyc.us/JustADog.html

[VroomPshhTsi]

I see that you only quoted my statement as you saw fit. My qoute had a qualifier on the end. Your qoute has no such qualifier, so please expound on your first hand knowledge of the subject, or are you also going on by something you have read or heard? I see it like this, there is a difference between faith and fact. I have never seen China, I have read books about it, I have seen it on TV and I have faith that it exists, unlike unicorns, zombies or dragons, which I have also read about and see on TV and do not have any faith that they exist. I grew up in Delafield, I shop at Brookfield Square, and I drive a Mustang and a Taurus (not at the same time), those are facts. Anything that you have no personal knowledge of is simply faith when it all boils down to it.

So again, without a qualifier at the end of your statement (unlike my statement that you qouted incorrectly) you are makeing a factual statement and have therefore must have some firsthand knowledge of dogfighting. I always enjoy hearing an expert speak on a subject, so please inform us how these dogs/chickens/bulls are treated and what your backgroud is that allows you to make factual comments about the subject matter.

Wow, rant much? Sorry I didn't quote your entire post (I did this time so you won't bitch about it). This is a car forum, but since you want to get technical, let's go for it. I quoted your comment word for word, so I don't think I quoted it incorrectly. I'm not sure what "qualifier" you are trying to refer to. The second half of your post just talks about how you don't condone that sort of action. That does not negate the fact that you stated "up until the moment they died fighting they lived a pretty good life, they were treated and cared for very well." Maybe SOME dog fighters take great care of their dogs, but the Vick example was certainly not the case. Read the book about the Mike Vick case written by the guy who lead the team that was responsible for rehabilitating the dogs. Besides the prosecuting attorney, I doubt any one had more knowledge of what those dogs went through than the author of that book. To say they were cared for well because they were prized possessions that could win their owners a lot of money is simply false. Take a look at the photos and videos of what these dogs went through. I don't attend dog fights so I can't speak for all cases, but I reviewed the Mike Vick case very closely and your statement did not mesh with what I learned.

Excerpt from an article Slate.com (this is evidence brought up in the Vick case so yes, these are facts):
"A federal grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, charging him with taking part in a dogfighting operation. When police raided his rural property in Virginia in April, they discovered dozens of pit bull terriers. They also found a "rape stand," a pry bar, treadmills, and a fight pit, all of which authorities said pointed to the illicit sport. What is this equipment?"
"Legitimate dog training tools for the most part, but ones that come in handy for turning pit bulls into vicious fighters. Pooches die so often in fights that owners always need new dogs. This is where the rape stand, also called a breeding stand, comes in. It consists of two steel poles mounted to the ends of a platform that's often made of wood. U-shaped pieces of curved metal sit atop each pole; one goes around the belly of a female pit bull and the other around her neck. The stand isn't illegal, but dog breeders don't normally use it; after all, female dogs in heat aren't so particular. And most people wouldn't want to breed poorly socialized dogs that must be strapped down to mate. But breeders of attack dogs place special value on females that are so mean they might bite any male dogs that get too close. People find these stands online or through an underground dogfighting magazine, or they make their own."

So unless you call rape stations, treadmills, steroids, not to mention the bait dogs and training fights "a pretty good life," I am going to disagree with you. There are also confessions by both Vick and his friends on how they killed these dogs (yes, with their own hands). So physical evidence and a confession are the facts I am using in why I said your statement about the Vick dogs living a pretty good life is false. But hey, "a pretty good life" is subjective depending on who you ask so you can call yourself right if it makes you feel better.

Then you dig yourself even deeper with "by all accounts fighting dogs/chickens/bulls are huge investments and treated as such" which means YOU are now trying to claim knowledge of many animal fighting cases. I will turn your question back on you (since you were the first to make such a claim). What is your first hand, expert knowledge on the subject?

I feel Vick should have received a worse penalty. Yes, that is an opinion. There is no factual aspect of that, it's just how I feel. We can debate forever what the perfect penalty is for any animal cruelty case. I love animals so I tend to lean towards the more severe penalties. Then again I think there are a lot of crimes today that need stiffer penalties.

[STANMAN]

"By all accounts" is the qualifier, with that statement I am admitting that I have no personal accounts to go by, only accounts of others.

I didn't read about the Vick stuff, I am sure it was horrible, but horrible things happen to animals every day. Why isn't the founder of Tyson chicken in jail? Have you ever seen how chickens that are bred for consumption live? Steroids in way higher quantities than I am sure those dogs were forced on, cages with no room to move so I am sure they have dreams of even being able to walk on a treadmill, forced to eat the ground up remains of the parts of other chickens that can't be sold, and then slaughtered at the end of their miserable short lives. Why no public outcry for the chickens? Oh, because, for some inane reason, they are a different level of animal than Fido or Boots. That's what I am trying to point out. Animals are under OUR domain, God created it that way for a REASON. And animals are animals are animals, don't eat chicken/fish, wear leather, and drink milk and then turn on the tear factory and rage over what Mike Vick did. And if you don't eat chicken or fish, use leather, or drink milk, imagine how many bugs are innocently killed harvesting all that hemp and soy. Or are bugs on a differnt level yet again? Slippery slope isn't it?

[VroomPshhTsi]

^ I'm not arguing that horrible things don't happen to animals every day. I only pointed out the myth that champion fight dogs are treated so well. Two different arguments. We could debate animal cruelty all day.

[IcePickFreak]

So ummm, yeah...

If the Saints lost their franchise license I'd enjoy it just for the fact that their fans are a bunch of douchebags.



This thread is now about Michael Vicks dog illegally playing for the Saints.

[spooln30]

They are/were just dogs...

Now I see where this all started from. If that's how you feel, being it is your opinion, you and stanman are just as bad as the people who treat dogs and animals in a cruel matter. What I really want to say I wont. My dog who I had to put down in Dec, I had for over 12 years and I would've killed a PERSON if they ever tried to harm him. Vick is a POS and should die for what he did, along with the people who were involved. From my personal experience with dogs, they are more loyal than any one of my friends I've ever had in my life. My dog Rocky show me unconditional love even when he would piss in the house on accident and I would be mad at him. Whenever I was feeling down he knew how to change how I was feeling at that monent. Damn I miss him.
I guess in the end some people just aren't cut out to own a dog or any animals. You just don't know what your missing owning a dog. Especially a German Shepard.

[STANMAN]

Now I see where this all started from. If that's how you feel, being it is your opinion, you and stanman are just as bad as the people who treat dogs and animals in a cruel matter. What I really want to say I wont. My dog who I had to put down in Dec, I had for over 12 years and I would've killed a PERSON if they ever tried to harm him. Vick is a POS and should die for what he did, along with the people who were involved. From my personal experience with dogs, they are more loyal than any one of my friends I've ever had in my life. My dog Rocky show me unconditional love even when he would piss in the house on accident and I would be mad at him. Whenever I was feeling down he knew how to change how I was feeling at that monent. Damn I miss him.
I guess in the end some people just aren't cut out to own a dog or any animals. You just don't know what your missing owning a dog. Especially a German Shepard.

I am glad you recieved so much satisfaction and love from owning an animal. I don't see your point about me being "just as bad as Vick" because I don't agree that people and dogs/cats (but not chickens, cows, turkeys, bugs, ameboas, ect for some reason) should have the same rights as human beings.