05 Focus ST 2.3L engine noise - Video

[DSMDuDE]

Help!

http://youtu.be/qzuA9c5UKAM

Name this noise. happened on the freeway over the weekend, got to a gas station, dip stick was dry.. added oil, got home, added more, and this is how it sits.

Beginning to think it is now a top end noise, but unsure.

Just took the valve cover off, and to me nothing looks odd to the eye.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Nick

[Car Guy]

Determining the specific cause of a noise like that is very difficult from video/sound.....

How long was the noise audible on the freeway - do you know why there was no oil left - was there an issue with abnormal oil consumption before this happened?

I hate to say this but my money is on that engine is not worth attempting to fix.....

[spooln30]

I hate to say this but my money is on that engine is not worth attempting to fix.....

Dido.

Even if you fix the noise, which I think has something to do with the timing chain, you still have an engine that eats oils. Find a new engine or sell the car.

[DSMDuDE]

Head will be off today. I plan to have to keep the car for awhile longer. Common problem with these Duratec's consuming oil is the PCV system that is hidden underneath the intake manifold. That will be replaced, as well as a new timing chain/tensioner/guide.

But, we shall see once the head is off.

[xxtremeteam]

this may help
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2874898003.html

[DSMDuDE]

this may help
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2874898003.html

Thank you, I just sent them a text asking what size the engine is.. I am guessing it is a 2.0l D though and not a 2.3 D

[DSMDuDE]

this may help
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2874898003.html


He got back to me. It's a 2.0. Thanks for looking out though!

[stolle]

u said the dip stick was dry? how much did u have to add? i know the oil filters on duratecs hang down right in front off the block and if you use the wrong filter its too long but still screws on and works it just hangs WAY too low and get hit by things and leak. thats my guess.

duratec engines are strong as hell and have one main ladder cap on the crankshaft and are timing chain. you ran it dry of oil for sure tho. its fucked.

theres a 2.3L duratec on craigslist in MKE for like 400$. i tried to scoop it for 100$ but the guy was being a turd. its been listed for 6 monthes now. go buy it. cuz u need a new engine :(

[stolle]

its very common on focaljet.com to see posts about duratec people getting the long filters put on at jiffy lubes and smacking them off and leaking all the oil out. search around its common issue.

[spooln30]

How does the pcv system use up quarts of oil? The baffles in the valve cover prevents any actual oil from flowing through the pcv system into the intake. In fact if this is what is really happening then you have way too much crank case pressure and other problems. I've fixed the pcv rubber elbow on a bunch of those and even the 3.0 and is more for a clasped rubber elbow. Your intake would be just covered in lots of oil creating a very poor running condition. I don't buy that one. Probably the rings, now that I've ran across on the 2.3 engine as wel as the 2.0's.

[DSMDuDE]

How does the pcv system use up quarts of oil? The baffles in the valve cover prevents any actual oil from flowing through the pcv system into the intake. In fact if this is what is really happening then you have way too much crank case pressure and other problems. I've fixed the pcv rubber elbow on a bunch of those and even the 3.0 and is more for a clasped rubber elbow. Your intake would be just covered in lots of oil creating a very poor running condition. I don't buy that one. Probably the rings, now that I've ran across on the 2.3 engine as wel as the 2.0's.

Thanks for your info!

I searched and couldn't find it.. Do you have a link for the motor? By tomorrow we will have the head off. I didn't have enough compressor to get the crank pulley bolt off.


More info i hate hearing.. lol

If anything the pan is easy to pull, so we might do that as well....

[spooln30]

I'm not sure what link your referring to. I'm just going off memory from working on these cars more than I cared to. I think there is a TSB's about the rubber pcv elbow and excessive oil consumption.
I would def drop the oil pan just to make sure. You could at the same time throw a new set of rings in it. Just flex hone the cylinders then put the rings in. When I worked for Toyota and the 98-02 Corollas had ring glazing issues I would just pull the head and oil pan, check the cylinder walls for damage like piston skirt scrapping and also measure each cylinder three times, top, middle. Bottom with a bore gauge. This step is to make sure the cylinder is not out of round. Almost everytime i could still see the cross-hatching still on the walls so just new rings were in order.
So if the cylinder walls still look good just deglaze the cylinders(use flex hone) and install new rings. GL.

[DSMDuDE]

I'm not sure what link your referring to. I'm just going off memory from working on these cars more than I cared to. I think there is a TSB's about the rubber pcv elbow and excessive oil consumption.
I would def drop the oil pan just to make sure. You could at the same time throw a new set of rings in it. Just flex hone the cylinders then put the rings in. When I worked for Toyota and the 98-02 Corollas had ring glazing issues I would just pull the head and oil pan, check the cylinder walls for damage like piston skirt scrapping and also measure each cylinder three times, top, middle. Bottom with a bore gauge. This step is to make sure the cylinder is not out of round. Almost everytime i could still see the cross-hatching still on the walls so just new rings were in order.
So if the cylinder walls still look good just deglaze the cylinders(use flex hone) and install new rings. GL.

Sorry - Stolle was talking about the link to the engine on CL MKE

Do you know what year 2.3's i would be able to use if i were to look for an engine?

[Slow5oh]

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2843512470.html

[DSMDuDE]

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2843512470.html

Thanks, I saw that one last night, even know everything looked right. I was not sure about the "ZTS" Even know it is a year older, guess i could find out how many miles are on it, and if compression is known...

[Car Guy]

Did you inspect the engine's internals yet?

[DSMDuDE]

Not yet, that will happen this evening/tonight

Saw your post about knowing the seller of the motor. It all depends on what the outcome of this motor is. Also what the specs are of that motor on CL MKE

Thanks
Nick

[Car Guy]

He is a good friend of two very good friends of mine......

[DSMDuDE]

Emailed me back saying this:

Don't know the compression numbers but engine has 79,000 miles on it. We also guarantee the motor is good and return your money if not completely satisfied.
Thanks,
Keith

[Slow5oh]

i say do it if it's a good price. I'm sure you got more then enough people on here willing to give you a helping hand if it's needed

[DSMDuDE]

i say do it if it's a good price. I'm sure you got more then enough people on here willing to give you a helping hand if it's needed

Thank you.. upon inspection tonight we will make a decision.

I will keep you all informed!

[DSMDuDE]

Lets say i were to get this motor....

What would you recommend i replace before installing?

New timing chain/tensioner/guide
valve cover gasket
pcv valve and hose
Head gasket & Head bolts??
Exhaust manifold gasket
Thermostat
Balance shaft delete kit??

Keep in mind, yes the vehicle is paid off in September/October but, i may have to keep it awhile after that....

[DSMDuDE]

Screw it... I am buying the motor. He got back to me with a price

[Slow5oh]

if you need help transporting it I got an empty truck bed, just give me some money for gas.

What you have listed is a good start I'd say, that way you shouldn't have anything other then basic maintenance to worry about after it's installed.

[DSMDuDE]

if you need help transporting it I got an empty truck bed, just give me some money for gas.

What you have listed is a good start I'd say, that way you shouldn't have anything other then basic maintenance to worry about after it's installed.

Thank you for your offer! But you live in West Bend, and i am in Dousman, and the engine is in Cudahy.. That would be a LOT of driving for you. I should be able to borrow the work truck. But thank you again, and i will keep you in mind!

Just ordered:
Balance shaft delete kit - Massive Hardcore Racing
cam timing tool - Massive Hardcore Racing
exhaust gasket - CFM
timing chain/tensioner and both guides - CFM

I do not think i should will need to do a headgasket. Or should I? Are these common for HG problems??

Still need to get:
PCV valve
Intake manifold gaskets
fuel injector o rings
valve cover gasket
LH motor mount because found out mine is torn
water pump
thermostat

Since this motor is a 04 and PVEZ(sp) I will need to swap over my intake manifold and fuel injectors from what i have been reading.

Am i missing anything? Anything for a little bit more get up and go i can add while i am at this stage?

Thanks!

[Car Guy]

Screw it... I am buying the motor.

Smart decision.....

[DSMDuDE]

Thanks :)

Maybe i can get this one fixed, and sell it to regain some $$$ spent on this project.

Told him i want to buy it, waiting for a reply, if anything i will go get it tomorrow after work.

[Slow5oh]

i would call over at massive speed. he's a great guy and knows his foci and see what he thinks.

[spooln30]

Smart idea to swap the engine. You would probably run into more than you really wanted to.

Just replace what ever has a problem/leaking before you install the new engine. Like front or rear crank seals, valve cover gasket. Just look at the head gasket for leaks and if it looks good leave it alone.Those engines weren't known for head gasket issues.

Why are you doing the balance shaft delete?

[DSMDuDE]

Central Florida Motorsports want the VIN # from the 04 to make sure parts will match up for the 05. One guy selling the motor is gone till Sunday, and the other guy says the one who is gone has it.

I compared the 04 and 05 on Autozone for part numbers on the chain/tensioner/guide/intake gaskets and exh gaskets.. All the same.

They are both "Z" motors. Just the 04 is a PZEV which means different exh manifold, different intake manifold and injectors i believe.

Ugh my head hurts

[DSMDuDE]

Why are you doing the balance shaft delete?

Free's up 18lbs off of the rotating assembly. and one less thing to worry about failing.

[DSMDuDE]

Talked to Karl @ Massive. He know's his shit and got me squared away. All parts ordered. Now wait for a reply on when i can get this motor.

[Slow5oh]

Talked to Karl @ Massive. He know's his shit and got me squared away. All parts ordered. Now wait for a reply on when i can get this motor.

Yeah he's a great guy, glad things I working out for ya

[DSMDuDE]

Add to my just ordered list:

PCV valve
Intake manifold gaskets
fuel injector o rings
valve cover gasket
LH motor mount
water pump
thermostat

[WhatsADSM]

Sweet. GLWS (S for "swap" in this case ;) )

[Car Guy]

I'm thinking out loud here.....

Consider flow testing the injectors and rebuilding/balancing if needed. They will be out regardless. You would be surprised how fast injectors can become less than 100% with the shit gas we are FORCED to use. - OR - You can have a cleaning kit (not the worthless stuff in a bottle at parts stores) run through after the new engine is up and running. The extra advantage of the kit is the entire engine gets an 'enema' along with your o2 sensors and converter. My opinion is 'BG' (Barry Grant) makes the best kit and cleaners available hands down. I know the engine you plan to get only has 79k but if you're going to do it right do it right.....

[DSMDuDE]

Thanks! I'll do that. Is the Barry Grant stuff a multi bottle application or a all in one? Guess I can look it up online.

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[DSMDuDE]

Sweet. GLWS (S for "swap" in this case ;) )

Thanks! I wish it was a horsepower upgrade.

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[DSMDuDE]

I'm thinking out loud here.....

Consider flow testing the injectors and rebuilding/balancing if needed. They will be out regardless. You would be surprised how fast injectors can become less than 100% with the shit gas we are FORCED to use. - OR - You can have a cleaning kit (not the worthless stuff in a bottle at parts stores) run through after the new engine is up and running. The extra advantage of the kit is the entire engine gets an 'enema' along with your o2 sensors and converter. My opinion is 'BG' (Barry Grant) makes the best kit and cleaners available hands down. I know the engine you plan to get only has 79k but if you're going to do it right do it right.....

I can't find this stuff anywhere online. The "BG"

[DSMDuDE]

I can't find this stuff anywhere online. The "BG"

This "BG"

http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html

[Car Guy]

The BG kit I used (most complete) has 3 parts; one for the injectors, one for the intake/exhaust (carbon blast), and one for the tank. This is commercial stuff and you need the BG equipment. The typical rate a shop will charge is about $150. IF you have this done go to a reputable shop that knows what they are doing 100%. If this stuff is not used correctly your money will be wasted and there is a remote chance of engine damage. The cleaners are nothing to play around with and will blow the eyeballs out of your head if used in a confined space.....


This "BG"

http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html

That is the brand.....

[DSMDuDE]

Hate waiting... Waiting for parts from Massive, CFM, local bumper to bumper and finally for the guy with the motor to get back to me!

I need a car!

[DSMDuDE]

Feels like a build thread....

First round of parts arrived.

http://img.tapatalk.com/43355b26-02bd-45d9.jpg

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[juicedimpss]

Just ordered:
Balance shaft delete kit - Massive Hardcore Racing
cam timing tool - Massive Hardcore Racing
exhaust gasket - CFM
timing chain/tensioner and both guides - CFM


Am i missing anything? Anything for a little bit more get up and go i can add while i am at this stage?

Thanks!


Hate waiting... Waiting for parts from Massive, CFM, local bumper to bumper and finally for the guy with the motor to get back to me!

I need a car!

kinda funny. "I need a car"......"Im modding my daily"....
:rolf

[DSMDuDE]

kinda funny. "I need a car"......"Im modding my daily"....
:rolf

only thing i am "modding" is the balance shaft delete, and that can be done to the new motor before it goes into the car. So..

[juicedimpss]

only thing i am "modding" is the balance shaft delete, and that can be done to the new motor before it goes into the car. So..

just bustin you ballz a bit nick.
what exactly power improvment will be had with the balance shaft removal? Im certain they put those in for engine longevity,not just to kill power.

[DSMDuDE]

Figured you were doing some ball bustin

Been doing some reading and it seems like a common thing to do if you are going that far into the motor. I know the balance shaft assembly is 18lbs and that will be free'd off of the rotating assembly. Maybe it is somewhat like a dsm, because if the balance shaft goes, it can cause some damage. Since this is also a interference motor. Going to do a little more reading on it.

[juicedimpss]

it may be 18lbs of rotating,but remember the moment of inertia is relatively small,not like its a 15" diameter.
some things are best left the fuck alone. hell,old tractor motors run forever with balance shafts in them.

[Car Guy]

it may be 18lbs of rotating,but remember the moment of inertia is relatively small,not like its a 15" diameter.
some things are best left the fuck alone. hell,old tractor motors run forever with balance shafts in them.

This.

[stealthy1ss]

Also with getting rid of the balance shafts your car is going to vibrate more. That might get old fast with a daily driver.

[Reverend Cooper]

If you call Karl Truty the Owner at massive tell him Coop sent you. he knows me well and will help you. if its not too late

[DSMDuDE]

If you call Karl Truty the Owner at massive tell him Coop sent you. he knows me well and will help you. if its not too late

Thanks Coop, I called him and talked to him about the timing components from the 04 to the 05. Very helpful guy. If i need to call him for something else I will do so. Thanks!

[DSMDuDE]

These people:

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2843512470.html

Are awesome at getting back to you! Not! Still waiting.....

[DSMDuDE]

In process of pulling the motor. Which is not fun... last night we fund out we have to pull the trans because there is not enough room to desperate the 2 and lift the engine up. Fun continues today.

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[DSMDuDE]

Success! Now time to start swapping all the shit over.

http://img.tapatalk.com/6b08dec6-48da-137b.jpg

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[Car Guy]

Did you get the engine on CL?

[DSMDuDE]

Yea from Keith in Cudahy.

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[DSMDuDE]

Fucking lovely.... zero compression across the board. A+++ seller!

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[Ricky Bobby]

so the motor u just bought is a pos also but u can return it right??

[DSMDuDE]

Hope so. Means I have to pull it again and pull all the new $$ parts off.

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[Car Guy]

I feel your pain Nick, been there done that. Before you go all 'kamikaze' on the seller (if you did not already) double and triple check EVERYTHING to ensure nothing was overlooked. Absolute zero compression on all 4 cylinders does not seem likely unless there is a serious problem. I am not taking sides in any way but overlooked things in the past and did not realize it until after creating an unnecessary shitstorm.....

[DSMDuDE]

Inspecting more. Thinking some how cams are 180 off. Switched them now. We do not know how this happened. Update to come

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[DSMDuDE]

Update:

Negitive Ghost Rider

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[Car Guy]

Update:

Negitive Ghost Rider

In english please......

[DSMDuDE]

With the cams adjusted 180* no changes. Still zero compression.

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[juicedimpss]

so you modded the motor,and now it doesnt have compression?

[DSMDuDE]

Don't know if it had compression before I got it. So that's not the case. And I hope your just being a smart ass.

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[Car Guy]

*crickets*

[DSMDuDE]

No e-mail response since i sent the email Saturday. emailed again this morning. Going to call today after work. Was not going to call this weekend. Needed to cool off.

[DSMDuDE]

Just got off the phone with Keith. He's standing by his word. So time to pull it back out. Strip all the new shit off of it and bring it back. In the mean time time to get the original block and head to a machine shop to be fixed.

I miss having a car to drive.

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[Irish]

Just got off the phone with Keith. He's standing by his word. So time to pull it back out. Strip all the new shit off of it and bring it back. In the mean time time to get the original block and head to a machine shop to be fixed.

I miss having a car to drive.

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DSM = 2 Focus?


Sorry mang, could resist ;)

[DSMDuDE]

Funny funny.

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[DSMDuDE]

Good machine shop @ reasonable pricing around Waukesha area?

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[Irish]

Nader In Waukesha. Can't remember the name of the shop though.

[DSMDuDE]

Motorsports machine service

Gonna call him tomorrow, and hopefully drop it off after work

[xxtremeteam]

Did you ever find the cause of the first failure?

[DSMDuDE]

Did you ever find the cause of the first failure?

Yea we did actually. Thats the motor i am goin gto take in to get fixed.

1 and 4 have play. at TDC you can push them down. So guessing rod bearings. 1 also tapped a valve. You can see the mark on the piston, but not on the valve... So guessing it is bent.

[Car Guy]

Any idea why the used engine has zero compression?

[DSMDuDE]

Nope.. Wondering if it smacked valves in the previous car?

[DSMDuDE]

After talking on the phone with john at Motorsports Machining about repairing the original engine. He seems to think with that amount of play on #1 and #4 cylinder, it is likely that i may need a new crank, maybe a rod, and the cylinders might need to be bored, depending on inspection. So.. That would also mean new pistons.... Oh yea, and bearings, rings, valve(s) etc....

This is getting worse and worse

[Irish]

After talking on the phone with john at Motorsports Machining about repairing the original engine. He seems to think with that amount of play on #1 and #4 cylinder, it is likely that i may need a new crank, maybe a rod, and the cylinders might need to be bored, depending on inspection. So.. That would also mean new pistons.... Oh yea, and bearings, rings, valve(s) etc....

This is getting worse and worse

How about a reman?


Or you could convert it to Rwd and do a 5.0 swap :)

[DSMDuDE]

What's a reman run? Where would i get that from? Guessing a reman is going to run around $2500-$3000

[Ricky Bobby]

go cart motor??

[Irish]

What's a reman run? Where would i get that from? Guessing a reman is going to run around $2500-$3000

$2319.99 engine
+
$460.00 core charge if you want to keep your old engine.

[DSMDuDE]

$2319.99 engine
+
$460.00 core charge if you want to keep your old engine.

Where did you find that and from whom? Jasper's site showed me this:
$3868.00

Ford Reman short block is $2700.00 and complete(long block?) $3400.00

[Irish]

Autozone ;)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Engine/_/N-9enw6

Comes with a 3 year warranty!

[Car Guy]

Nope.. Wondering if it smacked valves in the previous car?

This is the only thing I can think of assuming nothing was overlooked. A leak test will tell you exactly what the problem is.....



After talking on the phone with john at Motorsports Machining about repairing the original engine. He seems to think with that amount of play on #1 and #4 cylinder, it is likely that i may need a new crank, maybe a rod, and the cylinders might need to be bored, depending on inspection. So.. That would also mean new pistons.... Oh yea, and bearings, rings, valve(s) etc....

This is getting worse and worse


I still highly recommend a good used factory built engine opposed to rebuilding the original.....

[DSMDuDE]

I'd be glad too. Don't have that much cash though. And its almost as much as I owe on the car. Which sucks!!

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[Irish]

Rock Nic hardspot

[SSDude]

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/2873067120.html
$500 46k miles

[DSMDuDE]

Wondering if the seller would do anything for me if it was the head and I got it repaired. IF its only the head though

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[DSMDuDE]

Got the head off. All intake valves were bent open. Bottom end looks perfect. We inspected my original head more and its good. Were gonna put my head on this motor Saturday. Gotta order head gasket and head bolts.

http://img.tapatalk.com/6b08dec6-ebcd-f416.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/6b08dec6-ebe4-209a.jpg

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[Car Guy]

How many miles on the engine you bought?

[DSMDuDE]

87k

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[DSMDuDE]

It's alive!

[noeggs4u]

Now get the other car going for bashing. Lol

[DSMDuDE]

Was confused for a second... lol

Yes, the Slash, that will get a ESC soon

[DSMDuDE]

For those of you who need a little more proof. :headbang

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540999_10150696878439551_504234550_9108345_8178124 99_n.jpg

He is also sending me a check for $100.00. Anything helps.