97 cavalier wierdest clutch problem anyone have any suggestions?

[Moparjim]

So awhile ago my daughters cavalier slave cylinder started leaking bad of course its the kind that is like built into the throwout bearing so i had to pull the trans to replace it. Turns out its been a problem it seems it is a pretty tpuchy thing that comes tie wrapped shut and it breaks the tie wraps after you install it and apparently will overtravel and ruin the seal and things if it is then ever taken out. They also insist you replace the master at the same time or no warranty so i did that as well. Was fine for a few months then todayy it suddenly acts like the clutch wont release all the way but very wierdly. It goes into any gear fine without thw car runong but wont go into gear or has to be forced when running. When i say wierdly here is the wierd part. Once in gear it actually feels normal like the clutch doesnt engage untill the pedal is halfway up and it acts like its in neutral until the clutch is about halfway up. Wierdest part is the clutch seems to engage and make some clicking if te pedal is pushed all the way down as well. Like car will creep forward if i let it about halfway out or if i push it all the way to the flor which should be fully released. pedal also feels normal like the clutch is indeed moving he slave. Im guessing i have to pull the trans again but hoping maybe someone has a hot idea or aome experience with these. Ive had slaves fail or clutch debris get jammed in there or warped clutch discs etc before and cause disengagement problems but always then as is logical the clutch engaged with the pedal down and or right barely off the floor. Whats wierd about this is is seems like the clutch works feela normal just that it must be barely hanging up enouh to keep the input shaft spinning or somethjbg preventing gear shifting and then the pedal all the way down acts like maybe the slave is pushing it too far and binding something up in there or something.

[Russ Jerome]

Thats word for word the same complaint I've gotten from Ford pickup and medium duty owners, ford actualy offers a master/line/slave as a unit as it is a PITA to bleed.

Air, any air will give the engagment issue you describe, high but no complete float when depressed.

If there is a bleed hole in slave, even if you have to pull bell force fluid "up" from slave to master. Its valved to allow just this by design of the closed hydraulic system. By myself I manualy compress and cycle the slave by hand with the cap of master, wifes eye will say when bubble stop.

There are factory service letters (not for your vehicle that I know of) that show an open bleed port and the slave totaly submerged in fluid while it is manualy compressed and stroked to aid in removing air.

[wrencher]

The service info for bleeding is pretty easy;
Clean cap. Remove reservoir cap and diaphragm. Fill reservoir and keep full throughout procedure. Attach hose to bleed screw on actuator and submerge other end in container of hydraulic fluid. Depress pedal slowly and hold, loosen bleed screw to purge air. Tighten bleed screw to 18 INCH lbs. (2 N.m). Repeat as necessary until air bubbles are no longer seen.
Fill reservoir. Install cap and diaphragm. Start engine. Push clutch pedal to floor. Wait 9 seconds. Try to shift transaxle into Reverse. If gears grind, bleed system again.

I would try to bleed it first. but since the pedal doesn't have an excess of free play I'd worry about the clutch itself.
Have seen pressure plates break a finger or 2 on the diaphram spring .

[Moparjim]

Ive bled it and the first thing i did was bleed it again ast night. It has a secind line coming out of te bellhousing with a bleeder like a brake caliper on the end. I will try bleeding it some more. Also it did work fine for a few months with no issue and then basically went from fine to not fine in an instant it didnt get worse over time or anything. I unfortunately am leaning towards maybe something broke loose in there.

[Moparjim]

Anyone have a scope i would love to try to get a look in through the hole te lines come out before tearing it apart?

[Russ Jerome]

Attach hose to bleed screw on actuator and submerge other end in container of hydraulic fluid. Depress pedal slowly and hold, loosen bleed screw to purge air. .

^^^this is essentialy the Ford procedure I described, will allow fluid back in as the air is purged, use the shortest clear hose you can to reach and submerge in fluid.^^^

I've been very lucky "fully" compressing the piston, the check in slave is forced to expel air. Use a bar, hand or whatever to compress.

[Moparjim]

OK well I tried bleeding it again. Twice. Alot. It now goes into gear but you have to jam it usually, and the car creeps forward a little when fully depressed so it is STILL not fully disengaging but it is driveable. (barely). Russ, I cannot depress the piston, the slave is inside the bellhousing built into the throwout bearing it is a concentric slave or whatever you would call it. I bled it using the standard procedure with a hose that I have always used, and as others described.

What bothers me is that it was perfectly fine after the install for months, then all the sudden the issue cropped up. How would it all the sudden get air in it? That and man I bled this thing like 30 pedal depressions worth now and it is better but still not right. I am betting something happened to either the slave or master but again its a huge job and $$ worth of parts to be "guessing" at pulling the trans and replacing them both again, and the clutch as well.

[flyin_blue_egg]

I'll pass this along to my cousin brian. He does A LOT on cavi's so he should prob. know what's wrong.

[SpdRcrZ]

thanks Travis.

Best bet is to drop the trans and check it out. Its probably a bad throwout/slave. I've had it happen more then once (new ones fail..... AutoZone/AdvanceAuto specials) I've never heard of them saying you had to replace the master though. I've hardly ever had to replace them (unless someone gets into the car and tries to push in the clutch.... with the clutch line disconnected.... the master breaks off of the fire wall! lol)

Pulling the Isuzu trans is pretty easy, you can do it w/o dropping the subframe (you've already had it out once, so you already know what to do).