1997 Civic Ex Suspension and Engine Issues

[Al]

Hello All,

About two weeks ago, I was given a free 1997 Honda Civic EX.

The front suspension was in terrible condition. I put new struts and sway bar end links on it and that eliminated 90% of the noise. The car also felt like the front wheels were toe'd out and the steering wheel was right of center, so I adjusted the passenger-side tie rod untill it was not "oversensative" anymore.

There is one noise that I am not sure about. When I go over bumps, I hear thunk from the front suspension. I put the car in the air and shake the tires, but they are solid. Also, when I crank the wheel left and right while stopped, I am hearing a clunk when I change directions.


About the engine, it feels like it is out of tune. While accelerating, as I push the gas pedal down a little bit more while at 3k, but not enough to cause the car to downshift, the engine actually loses a little power.

The guy who gave it to me said that the t-belt was replaced 10k ago; the previous belt broke. I'm not sure about the details here, but I know that the car has not had an ideal service schedule.

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Were the strut mounts replaced as well?

[ThatWhiteCivic]

upper control arms

[Wagonbacker9]

tie rod end?

[Reverend Cooper]

springs shifting,or no insulators on springs

[Al]

I bought "quick struts" where the spring and strut are sold pre assembled.

[theavenger333]

all of the above.... strut mounts, tie rods. if the previous timing belt broke, that's an interuption motor, could be a bent valve, also could have been timed wrong, could also need a tune up, could be a vacuum leak too. you have oodles of possibilities, start with whats cheap and go from there

[austena123]

on a honda, you would know if the thing was damaged (piston contact).

[Al]

About that quick strut...

Was I supposed to directly bolt the top end of the strut to the strut tower? When I removed the previous strut assembly, the metal cup that holds the top of the spring had nothing between it and the body of the car. I assumed this was normal and proceeded to bolt the top of the strut to the towers. The thought crossed my mind that there should have been a rubber bushing or something between the top of the assembly and the car body.

About the transmission...
The D4 light started blinking and the car would only stay in 4th gear. I had it scanned and the part in need of repair appears to be the shift solenoid. I ordered the part and it should be in tomorrow. This part sits directly on top of the transmission and you can see it when you look under the hood. Two bolts and a plug will take care of it. I'm going to do a transmission filter change while I am at it.

Odd thing is that this civic has required a larger investment of $ in the first week than my 89 Olds Delta 88 royal required over 30 months and 50,000 miles (3800 > B16 ?). I can at least justify the repairs because the civic goes about 50% farther on a gallon of gas.

[theavenger333]

you were given a 97 civic si? you probably have a D16, the sohc not dohc. not even close on the two motors.

[Al]

B16 or D16. Close enough.

I just pulled the sway bar off the car. It had 1/4 inch clearance in many locations and could be the source of the noise. I also discovered that the previous owner used drywall screws to attach the sway bar bushing brackets!

BTW- I named the car "Hadji" (same as in jonny quest) because the previous owner hodged it together with whatever was available at the time. Yes, I name my cars.

[Al]

I stopped by Beeyond on my way home from work earlier today. I saw Simon standing out in front, so I thought I'd get some ideas from him. I mentioned that he once took the sway bar off of a car. I thought about this and decided to give it a go. It was a pain in the ass to deal with the rusted exhaust and broken bolts, but I managed to remove it.

Removing the sway bar eliminated about 90% of the noise, specifically the clanging sounds. The sway bar is bent. A kink is clearly visible near one of the mounts.

The suspension noises which remain sound similar to what I had before I replaced the struts, just quieter. It is most pronounced on washboard roads when you hit the right speed to get the parts to move in rhythm. I think it could be the bushings on any of the suspension parts.

[theavenger333]

B16 or D16. Close enough .

No. not even close.

you say things quite often that make you sound dumb, but this takes the cake. the only thing they have similar are number of cylinders and size of the motor. the other thing that gets me on this little fact finding mission of yours is that somehow you are either too lazy or stupid to do some research on what is literally one of the THE MOST modified and worked on cars in america.

we already told you whats wrong. you're driving a 14 year old car that has been beat to hell. on top of that it's been jerry rigged together. mostly everything on that car will need to be replaced for it to run and drive like it's brand new which aparantly you want it to do.

[Al]

No. not even close.

you say things quite often that make you sound dumb, but this takes the cake. the only thing they have similar are number of cylinders and size of the motor. the other thing that gets me on this little fact finding mission of yours is that somehow you are either too lazy or stupid to do some research on what is literally one of the THE MOST modified and worked on cars in america.

Easy there. There is no need to use fighting words here. How can mixing up a "B" with a "D" be such a serious issue. Just chill out about that one. Can I say "oops" and it will be all better?


we already told you whats wrong. you're driving a 14 year old car that has been beat to hell. on top of that it's been jerry rigged together. mostly everything on that car will need to be replaced for it to run and drive like it's brand new which aparantly you want it to do.

I also drive a 22 year old Oldsmobile which has 30k more miles and has been in more accidents. The olds has it's own make/model specific issues.

I can settle with some components not working, but a loose suspension requires attention. I'm looking for advice, even if some of it is redundant.

Seriously, Chill Out!

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

The D16 motors were used in the 1996-2000 Civic with the exception of the B16 used only in the 99-00 Civic SI. The D16 was available in the CX, DX, LX, HX, EX and came with or without VTEC in different configurations. Single cam motor. The B16 was a DOHC VTEC motor and only came 1 way.

When replacing struts, it is a real good idea to install new mount kits also. Otherwise it is like doing the job half ass compared to correctly.

Not trying to be a jerk , just clearing the air.

[Al]

The D16 motors were used in the 1996-2000 Civic with the exception of the B16 used only in the 99-00 Civic SI. The D16 was available in the CX, DX, LX, HX, EX and came with or without VTEC in different configurations. Single cam motor. The B16 was a DOHC VTEC motor and only came 1 way.


The two previous Honda/Acura engines I had were the B18 in my 92 Integra LS and the D16A1 in my 89 Integra RS.

Simon reminded me that my Civic had a D-series engine in it. If you asked me a few years ago, I could have named off all of the common engines in the US market Hondas. I guess I simply forgot with time.


When replacing struts, it is a real good idea to install new mount kits also. Otherwise it is like doing the job half ass compared to correctly.

Maybe there is supposed to be something between the strut and the strut tower?
I replaced every component between the tower and the strut fork.

Also, while removing the sway bar, I found that all of my bushings are cracked and falling apart. It was as if I was digging in potting soil with my fingers.


Not trying to be a jerk , just clearing the air.

I'm not picking up on anything negative here. Thanks for the info.

I'm heading over to King Motorsports to talk with them for a minute or two. Their aftermarket performance parts are cheaper than discount replacment parts.

Also, car and all, I am about $500 in on this Civic. IMO, that is not bad at all.

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

$500 into that isn't all that bad. Honda/Acura did use a D16 in the 1st gen Integra's. They then went to B18's and the B17.

Some struts may or may not come with the mount kit. It also depends on how they are sold at the store.

[Al]

I described the issue to a mechanic friend of mine. He asked me to crank the wheel to the side so we could get a better look at the suspension. He used a pry bar to shimmy the strut fork. This could be the/one of the issues.

Time for new lower control arms.

[BeesTwinEG]

something like al's honda civic... if it was mine (example) I'll just replace everything meaning, all the suspension minus motor/transmission. why? It's 10+years old... i'm guessing it was in wisconsin for 10+years lol
You mentioned d4 code... in honda/acura world, trans code = it might be going bad.
nontheless, if you replace everything and take care of it.. i'm sure it'll last another 150k miles thats if you would want to keep it for that long.
good luck bud

[Al]

I think I'll invest in a set of new upper and lower control arms on Monday or Tuesday.

I might just go with an adjustable aftermarket set so that I can do some minor tweaking to the alignment. This would not be for racing purposes, but rather to deal with tire wear. With factory alignment setups, I typically wear the outside edges of the front tires a little bit faster than normal.

[Al]

Another update:
I was talking with a few friends of mine and they suggested that I replace the bushing in the control arm, and not the whole arm. We got on this subject after I found out that getting a new lower control arm would be much more expensive than I thought.

Most chain retailors sell the bushing for $15-25. Energy Suspension sells a complete front suspension kit for the same price. Maybe I should just get that. Also, I can use the money I saved to finally buy a hydraulic press!

More updates later on...

[Al]

A pair of Energy Suspension bushings are on their way.

[Al]

I replaced the strut bushings on my car. This did eliminate one of the clunking noises that the car made, but the noise that concerns me the most is still present.

I am truly stumped at this point.

-I cannot get any looseness when I shake the tires
-new struts
-new lower sturt bushings

Along with the thunking, I also get a very harsh vibration at very specific speeds. These speeds are 28 and 47 mph. It seems to be associated with the engine being at about ~1500 rpm and possibly the torque converter locking up. I think this is the lowest RPM that the engine will operate at in 3rd and 4th gear. At this RPM, the car feels like I am driving over washboard roads but the roads are smooth.

I have heard that this could be the outer CV joint and possibly the the rack and pinion/inner tie rods.

I think I am going to take the car in for an oil change at a Honda dealership and let them diagnose the issue. I also don't have an issue with taking the car to a shop and paying them to diagnose the issue, but not repair it (I'll fit it).

[Al]

I just spent some time under my civic and checked just about everything to see what was loose.

How loose should the inner CV joint be? The entire housing is loose!

There is zero play between the shaft and the housing, but the splined shaft does not seem to fit into the transmission properly. There is about 1/8 inch of movement if I grab the inboard cv joint (not the shaft) and move it up and down. I remember that my 92 integra had some play even when a new shaft was installed, but I don't think it was this much.

[Al]

I found a/the issue...I think.

I was looking at the passenger side engine mount when I noticed that the engine bracket was missing a bolt. Not only was the bolt missing, but the threaded boss on the engine was broken off. This just might be it.

I'm pondering what I could/should do at this point.

The proper thing would be to put a different engine in.
An engine swap would be fun, but I am not motivated to spend $ like that right now.
I could try to find a way to salvage what I have and MacGyver the mount.

I'll try the MacGyver method first. I have every tool and material necessary to make this work.

[Al]

Another update:

Over a period of a few weeks, I JB Welded a stud into the transmission housing (not the engine).

It worked. No more loud thunk. Despite this glorious achievement, I'm ready to throw in the towel.

Is something wrong with the car? Nothing important. It has it's fair share of creaks and rattles, but nothing that compromises the safety of the car.

What is different is that I was hired on full time at my job last week. Not only did I get hired; I also received a raise. I can afford a decent car now.