Did anyone switch to big blocks, and then switch back?

[Syclone0044]

Has it been done? If so, I'd like to hear the reasons. I'm trying to prove/disprove my theory about instant low end torque & throttle response, and the people who have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Thanks,

[Corvette Jabo]

Weight, weight and weight. My 62 vette came with a 396 CID + .030 over to a 402 CID. If you could view a big and small block side by side on an engine stand you would be amazed the difference in size. Bigger size = weight. The bigger, heavier rotating mass takes more time to rev up. It gave allot of torque, but the extra weight in the front end didn't help the handling. Some people with big blocks swear by them, I have had several BB and the next engine I build will be a SB.

I installed an LT1 350 CID out of a 1970 Vette in the 62, you notice the difference in RPM speed. You can stroke a small block to a 427 CID.
:3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[Teufelhunden]

Yeah Jabo has a great reference point since he had a big and small block in the same car within a year or so. That 62 will get up a go too... :3gears:

[TuffEnuff]

I would never go back to a small block!

I go as fast on HP NOW as I used to on spray with my small block!

[Corvette Jabo]

Every one has an opinion. Small blocks have come along way. I thought that the advantage in racing is to reduce weight in the car. I have seen people do just about anthing, just short or running a 2 inch drill bit up and down the side of their car to reduce weight.

In the old hood, the guy across the street from me was in the 9's with a stroked 283.

[Prince Valiant]

I installed an LT1 350 CID out of a 1970 Vette in the 62, you notice the difference in RPM speed. You can stroke a small block to a 427 CID.
Actually, with alternate deck heights available for chevy, fords, mopar you can get even more...there are 454ci small blocks out there for both the SBC and Windsor motors.

They've even done test of similarly built 454 SBC and BBC...The BBC's will always have the advantage in power production at that ci. The only reasons to stick with a small block at that ci is for weight, stealth, external size limits, or "golly wow" factor.

What's this theory you've got going Josh?

[animal]

What about BBW's. Do people switch back from them ;)

[Corvette Jabo]

BBW? :confused :confused

[animal]

BBW... like in personal ads ;)

[Corvette Jabo]

BBW... like in personal ads ;)

Too Funny! :rolf

[BAD LS1]

Big Bad Whale :confused :confused

[Teufelhunden]

big black woman :Hump

[animal]

I thought it was big beauty woman but whichever of these implies the same type of thought :)

Or as we've shortened it at work... bee-bee-dub :)

Sorry to hijack your thread josh. I was trying for some comic relief and then it got all cluttered with explanations.

[JC70SS]

I have switch from SBC to BBC and will not go back. I love the low end torque even with my 3.07 grandma gear right now. When the 4.11's go in :thumbsup Sure I had a set-up similar to Tommy's minus the gears and the car did not excite me. No offense, I just love the Big Block power. In my case though I am a stop light to stop light guy, could care less about 1/4 mile times. I leave that for the winter.

[GHOSST]

big black woman :Hump

Whats wrong with big black women??

[Syclone0044]

Can we keep the noise on this page to a minimum? :sleep :confused

Jabo, your comparison is really good. Wish I coulda rode in both first hand , back to back comparison so to speak. I agree even a BBC 396 is going to be physically huge compared to a SBC 350.

Tuff I think you're only interested in trailered drag cars, where I'll grant you the fact that big block nitrous race motors clearly dominate when it comes to cost, performance, and reliability.

Prince Valiant, I haven't driven any big block cars so I can't say for sure, but I am trying to get a feel for what that low end torque and throttle response feels like, I can almost get a feel for it watching cars at the dragstrip that come out of the burnout box and snap the throttle for a split second and leap the front tires 2 feet off the ground like it's nothing. Or cars that can leave off idle and just explode off the line similar to Mark's yellow mustang (I realize that is a small block, Kenne Bell supercharged, nitrous car but you understand the type of "easy, yet explosive leave" I am referring to.) My reason for asking this question is to figure out if the people who have experienced big block torque and throttle response would never switch back to small blocks, and if the people who prefer alternatives are only because they never got a taste of big blocks. Does that make sense?

[Teufelhunden]

I owned a 440 powered Charger for about 8 years. Right before that a 283-4 powered Barracuda. Going from the SB to the BB was a night and day difference. Now I own a Talon with a 2.0L turbo...

You should talk to Jim next time you see him. He's owned a V10, BB/SB V8s. TT V6, and turbo 4 cyl cars all at one time. He's nuts. I heard him say once recently that the Stealth TT pulled harder than most...

[Prince Valiant]

Makes since and is probably applicable to a quite a few...you can go to any old school muscle board and find the hardcore small block guys and hardcore big block guys...and they spar constantly.

In general however, the small block crowd have never owned the big blocks for reference...they just feel that they can compete with less...and up to a point they can.

My bro had a 440 charger as well...and it is night and day difference. I was very tempted just to swap it in seeing as to how we still own it, however, i didn't want the hassle...In a perfect world, I'd go with a RB motor in an A body.

[animal]

For what it's worth, a friend of mine has a 69 chevelle with a hopped up 454, 6 speed t-56, and 4.10 locker. It is the car by which I judge all others as far as instant neck snapping torque.

All of the late model cars I've been in (all small block) have that feeling of sinking you back into your seat as they go faster. My friend's chevelle, while probably slower than some of the small blocks I've ridden in, delivers that instant whiplash causing torque that you almost have to tense up your entire neck to prevent. Truely an awesome ride, and liek I said, the standard to which I compare all other cars.

[Moparjim]

Like Scott said I've owned em all - big block, small block, 4 cyl turbos, 6 cyl turbo, etc etc.

Nothing "feels" as fast as the toss you back in the seat big block stuff...My Charger hooks, occasionally pulls the wheels a little bit, and "feels" insane off the line. Unfortunately the MPH and top end isnt as impressive as it should be, and the car handles like a brick, stops not so great lol.

All around, nothing beats some form of forced induction. I loved my Stealth i could get 25 MPG in an 11 sec car that drove and handled great and jsut as civilized as any V6 street car really... With AWD it launched hard, but didnt have the feel of the Charger in the first few gears. Once you hit third though the thing just kept pulling unlike the big block...Third gear in my Stealth was amazing hehe.

Now I have a neat combo lol - big block AND forced induction in the Viper. Its got great low end but without slicks I dont leave as hard...It pulls great all the way through the set of gears....

[Prince Valiant]

Unfortunately the MPH and top end isnt as impressive as it should be, and the car handles like a brick, stops not so great lol... One thing you never see discussed when addressing trap speed for muscle cars is their very very poor aerodynamics

Since wind ressistance increases expodentially as speed increases, IE the force of drag at 100mph is 4x's that at 50mph...not the 2x's it would be if it was linear. This means that the disparity in forces needed to overcome the wind ressistance at the 120mph range for the aerodynamic vehicle, vs that of an older vehicle can become quite substantial...if you look at the formula for drag (f=C*D*frontal area*velocity^2), well...in general the coeffiecent favors the newer car considerably, and as well, in general, frontal area is skewed in favor for that of the newer car. Add the two factors up and your looking at about 5-10% more drag at these speeds...

in my opinion can easily amount to 4-6mph once you start looking at traps in the 120 range, while in the 100mph it may only be 2-3, and during your typical street light race, no discernable difference would be noted.

[Cryptic]

:wstupid

http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/ssim49.gif

[HITMAN]

Nothing "feels" as fast as the toss you back in the seat big block stuff...My Charger hooks, occasionally pulls the wheels a little bit, and "feels" insane off the line. Unfortunately the MPH and top end isnt as impressive as it should be, and the car handles like a brick, stops not so great lol.

That's funny, top end was never much of a problem with my last big block...

9.89 @ 136.70 on nuts

I never sprayed at the track, but with a 375 shot in the fogger, it doesn't take Tesla to figure out the potential. ;)

However, you are 100% right on the braking and the handling. The car had drums all the way around, so it was good for about 1 hard stop every 30 minutes, and if it didn't flip over on the turn around, it handled good enough... :goof

[quickcarl]

You all know what my preference is and will most likely always be----the Big Iron. Each, however, has it's advantages. A smaller stroke engine will have a more peaky powerband and may make less useable average power. The advantages are: stealth, a little more managable on small tires due to less brutal torque, the aforementioned "wow factor", and less frontal weight. A smaller engine is especially more useful and usually is a winning combination in pound-per-inch style, class racing. Smaller strokes and bores offer way less friction and mass --- therefore more usable power per cube. The disadvantages are equally many, though. Smaller engines offer less torque to push any wind on the other end of the track,(some of) the parts are less reliable due to their smaller size, the heads cannot flow as much air as their big block counterparts, they can only take so much spray if N20 is used. I would love to have a big bore/short stroke Big Block for nitrous use on the street or a 434 due to its stealth. The Big, Big, Big Blocks will always rule the roost at the track, when the rules are unlimited and the weight breaks are reasonable between small block turbos and nitrous cars with big inches. The turbo cars make way more power, but usually find themselves walking that ever-so-fine line between traction and power. Having 2600-3000 horsepower coming out of a 400 cube small block sounds cool, but I would rather get down the track every time with 1800hp, and not have the pistons all cracked or bearings flattened each race. If a turbo car is tuned right, and the envelope is not pushed like this (2600-3000hp), then the turbos are way gentler on the engines than Nitrous. Nitrous tuneups have come a long way from when I used to pull engines apart every race or two, with holes in pistons. Those days are far behind me now. Pro-Mod tuneups for me now. No broken parts for 3 years now(knock on wood). :rockwoot:

[Syclone0044]

What turbo cars are you referring to? NHRA pro racing? NMRA? :confused This isnt anything in the area, is it?

[quickcarl]

Outlaw 10.5/ Outlaw Limited street, and the NMCA, PRO or NMRA Cars respectively.