It Looks Like Florida Has The Right Idea

[Nix]

Drug testing in Florida to receive welfare. :)

http://www.economist.com/node/18805970?story_id=18805970&fsrc=rss

http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/jun/10/welfare-drug-testing-program-just-makes-sense/

[TheRX7Project]

:applause:

[jamestown478]

They def. need to do that here in wisconsin.

[Nickerz]

Its not really going to do anything except make middle class and rich people feel better about themselves. Its all just an invasion of privacy and restriction of personal rights and freedom.

There's no prohibition against drinking while on welfare and there are plenty of controlled drugs that are in fact much safer, including LSD on the mean\harm dependency scale (the real scale in which a drug's severity is accessed on).

Either you're of the belief the government has the right to know what you put into your body and what you do with it or you don't.

I personally believe what consenting adults do in the privacy of their home is their own business.

If you want to solve the issue of poverty you need to address root causes like the education system and discrimination. I actually took a class on this and spent a semester writing a paper on it and it was very eye opening.

There are 3 prevailing theories on the reason for poverty, and they are all more or less correct.

1) Big Brother - The theory that the government creates people dependent or reliant on Welfare since its a more profitable option than working.
2) Restricted Opportunity - A lack of access to things like a computer, a family that understands the value of college, a basic failing in a child's support system in their upbringing.
3) Flawed Character - The theory that people on Welfare simply don't want to work.

There are a considerable number of people on Welfare that can't legitimately work. So lets pull those people out of the equation. Your left with a majority pool of people that are in general just too stupid, and not by their own doing for the most part, to pull themselves out. These people in the unemployment pool end up eventually being classified as "discouraged workers."

After not being able to pay their bills long enough they just eventually give up and become Welfare recipients. Even someone who is actually trying can eventually fall into the system and become a "big brother" user of the system. The goal of Welfare reform is to transition these people to becoming working class individuals. But the issue of "restricted opportunity" leaves most of these people ill equiped to do anything besides manual labor which results in an overpopulated pool of applications for these positions.

Finally there are people that just don't give two shits about anything except themselves, these are the "flawed characters." These are the stereotyped people that are given the face of Welfare. Statistically however, you'll find the vast majority of Welfare recipients to be the "working poor."

People that are too unskilled to hold any meaningful employment.

Its a very large systemic issue which is causing issues with America's place in the world's labor economy. While it might make a lot of you to feel better to point your finger at poor people and blame them for everything they brought onto themselves think of this.

Most of you were born into middle class white families. You had decent schools, mostly good role models and access to computers, books and great family support systems.

Think if you were born into an area with shitty schools, parents that weren't there for you and you had little to no access to books or computers. There are people that work their way out of poverty, but they don't usually start out on the complete bottom of the barrel with no access to these things. Either their family was there for them, they had good schooling or something to get them over that hump.

You can continue this system forever, and do things like drug testing but the root of the issue is that the education system is jacked. And that will only last as long as we can beat our chests and yell out U S A U S A! When the gig is up and our country doesn't have a talented enough labor pool to drive the next revolution in biotech, or nano or whatever ends up being the next revolution its game over.

Then it won't feel so good to point your finger and laugh when America isn't the World's super power anymore, but a country in decline.

Think about it.

[xxtremeteam]

I hope this catches on like wildfire and is done in all 50 states

[Waver]

I hope this catches on like wildfire and is done in all 50 states

Agreed. I personally dont want my tax dollars going to people who are going to sell them and then use the money on weed and alcohol. You want to get high and drunk, get a fucking job first.

[Yooformula]

good post Nick. IMO, if you agree to recieve gov't money aka tax payer money, then it should be a requirement that the gov't ensures that the money is going for its intended use. Usually the welfare abusers using drugs have no intention of getting jobs anyway usually due to their dependency. So if a program is going to give them money to live, give them money for education, I think its reasonable to make sure that they stay clean so that they can eventually get a job and get off of gov't assistance..which is what gov't programs like these were supposed to do in the first place...HELP THEM GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. By simply giving them money and not making sure they are making legitimate efforts to get jobs and stable, then IMO, the gov't is just helping them to stay dependent.

[subliminal1284]

You have to take a drug test for most decent jobs now days so why not drug test people who are getting money for nothing? I think its a great idea and will cut the states welfare costs greatly, On the down side I do predict crime may go up as the ones who will be losing their welfare will commit more crimes to support their habits.

[pOrk]

lol at Nicks post, you can pretend you know about 'poor' people all you want. I got news for you, they make as much as guys like me when the day is done because their housing is 90% paid for, food is paid for, and they get a check on top of that to live on. Add up the numbers and they are getting what, 20-25 grand a year? Most HONEST people can live off that, find a nice gal get married and BAM combined income of 50k.

Guess what, if you want to party thats great IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. I don't care who smokes dope, shoots heroin or drinks themselves stupid if they can afford it and don't pull others down to their level of stupidity. Fuck I can't afford cable tv, so guess what? I DON't have it.

I work a dead end factory job that any SCHMUCK can get, so don't tell me poor people can't get decent paying jobs.

[FoxStang]

Its not really going to do anything except make middle class and rich people feel better about themselves. Its all just an invasion of privacy and restriction of personal rights and freedom.

There's no prohibition against drinking while on welfare and there are plenty of controlled drugs that are in fact much safer, including LSD on the mean\harm dependency scale (the real scale in which a drug's severity is accessed on).

Either you're of the belief the government has the right to know what you put into your body and what you do with it or you don't.

I personally believe what consenting adults do in the privacy of their home is their own business.

If you want to solve the issue of poverty you need to address root causes like the education system and discrimination. I actually took a class on this and spent a semester writing a paper on it and it was very eye opening.

There are 3 prevailing theories on the reason for poverty, and they are all more or less correct.

1) Big Brother - The theory that the government creates people dependent or reliant on Welfare since its a more profitable option than working.
2) Restricted Opportunity - A lack of access to things like a computer, a family that understands the value of college, a basic failing in a child's support system in their upbringing.
3) Flawed Character - The theory that people on Welfare simply don't want to work.

There are a considerable number of people on Welfare that can't legitimately work. So lets pull those people out of the equation. Your left with a majority pool of people that are in general just too stupid, and not by their own doing for the most part, to pull themselves out. These people in the unemployment pool end up eventually being classified as "discouraged workers."

After not being able to pay their bills long enough they just eventually give up and become Welfare recipients. Even someone who is actually trying can eventually fall into the system and become a "big brother" user of the system. The goal of Welfare reform is to transition these people to becoming working class individuals. But the issue of "restricted opportunity" leaves most of these people ill equiped to do anything besides manual labor which results in an overpopulated pool of applications for these positions.

Finally there are people that just don't give two shits about anything except themselves, these are the "flawed characters." These are the stereotyped people that are given the face of Welfare. Statistically however, you'll find the vast majority of Welfare recipients to be the "working poor."

People that are too unskilled to hold any meaningful employment.

Its a very large systemic issue which is causing issues with America's place in the world's labor economy. While it might make a lot of you to feel better to point your finger at poor people and blame them for everything they brought onto themselves think of this.

Most of you were born into middle class white families. You had decent schools, mostly good role models and access to computers, books and great family support systems.

Think if you were born into an area with shitty schools, parents that weren't there for you and you had little to no access to books or computers. There are people that work their way out of poverty, but they don't usually start out on the complete bottom of the barrel with no access to these things. Either their family was there for them, they had good schooling or something to get them over that hump.

You can continue this system forever, and do things like drug testing but the root of the issue is that the education system is jacked. And that will only last as long as we can beat our chests and yell out U S A U S A! When the gig is up and our country doesn't have a talented enough labor pool to drive the next revolution in biotech, or nano or whatever ends up being the next revolution its game over.

Then it won't feel so good to point your finger and laugh when America isn't the World's super power anymore, but a country in decline.

Think about it.

Interesting post and all, but you've over complicated it. Because your dependent on welfare programs, you should be obligated to perform the simple act of a drug test to prove eligibility. The government isn't asking every normal citizen to take a drug test, so its not overbearing. Its simply a measure of cost control, assuming the cost benefit analysis shows there's a problem, which I imagine there is. Paying $50 for someone to get a drug test is nothing if it means thousands in savings from not paying out money to that individual. Of course, all of this is assuming you prefer not to give your tax dollars to drug addicts. If you need the support to help get you on your feet, you shouldn't have a problem passing a drug test. I think its pretty clear that in this society its not acceptable to use drugs, since its a norm don't expect to do them and simultaneously receive help from the society as well.

[wrath]

Welfare is a earned privilege, just like a driver's license.

If you have the money to use illegal drugs you do not need government assistance.

The people who welfare was intended for get back off welfare as soon as possible. They are people who will succeed, they make their own opportunities.

If you can get your ass to a library you can get on a computer. For free.

If you can read and write, you can go to school for almost free if you fill out the FAFSA, especially if you're over 25 and are poor.

The problem is simply that people don't try very hard.

[Yooformula]

The problem is simply that people don't try very hard.

exactly and as long as there arent any restrictions for them to gain access to free money, they have no reason to try very hard!

[lordairgtar]

People in the welfare mess will sit through all kinds of waiting and paper work to get the check, but won't bother to sit in a library and learn to use the computers (the library even offers basic classes on computer use), learn to write resumes, and do job searches. I've been in this boat, so anyone can better themselves. How hard do they want to work at it?

[HITMAN]

This is a violation of the 4th, 8th, 9th and 10th amendments to the Constitution! I demand my right to Constitutional drug abuse and demand that YOU ALL pay for it. I once did some research on how to grow weed, mushrooms, peyote, coca, opium and mescaline for a class in botany on my way to a medical degree. Like many here I just thought we should be happy with our booze, perscriptions and Robitussin. (Put more Tussin on it!) Once I broke down the aforementioned amendments and HEAVILY researched the affects on ones body and gained a basic understanding of what was happening to my mind at that time, I grained a hole new unerstanding of the reezunning behind lolz mind expandex drugs, ownership of wunz own bahdy and how this ah....all relates to the contribution and....







o wowman









ah wut wuzeye saing??? o ya i yam majorly hugnry wel ym offto a lowb a crapt on crunchssssssss..................

[Crawlin]

LMAO!

Sorry, but there is no "hold back" in education system. You either TRY or you DON'T. You either SAVE and can live off a modest income, or you go out and buy your xbox's and ps3's and rims and plasma's and never get ahead.

Personally, I think they should just do a simple raid on welfare recipients houses. Got an escalade, got a benz, got 24" rims, got huge ass tv's, game systems, etc... get your welfare taken away. Obviously you don't need it if you have these LUXURIES. That's all they are, they aren't RIGHTS TO HAVE.

Don't care what you call me, racist, discriminative, whatever... Just getting tired of being taxed on hard income while watching people pull up to the local pick n save in new bmw's only to go in to the store and use their food stamps for food and then buying a crap ton of alcohol as well. Money that SHOULD have been used for the food.

PS - Nickerz I took a class on it too. Why are problems always "blamed" on whole things instead of the individual? Why doesn't someone TRY. Sometimes it takes more than just going to school. You have to study, you have to have parents who care how you do. Again, why are others having to pay for another's inability to realize you have to invest more time, and its not my problem if your parents wanted to go out clubbing instead of stay home and make sure you are getting your education.

You can blame the education system all you want, but I find it hard to believe that the quality of the individual teacher is any less in MPS than somewhere in the suburbs. Teachers just finally don't want to deal with parents that bitch them out for their child failing instead of actually WORKING with the child after hours in their own home to find out their just dumb and need to spend more time studying.

If your theory was true, then NO ONE would pass. You have a class of 20 kids, and if the computers and books and teachers are all flawed, how does any single person NOT fail? Oh that's right, again they spend time studying outside of class and have parents that care how they do. So again, NOT education system, its all in the family.

And PLEASE, there are more scholarships available for ANYONE other than a white male, so how is the funding NOT there for them to go to school? Oh that's right, you actually HAVE to TRY and submit for the scholarship. You have to write a letter.

[GHOSST]

Great Scott! 2012, campaign slogan for Scott Walker and Rick Scott. Now thats Hope I can beleive in! :)

[subliminal1284]

Its just a as Ron White said, you cant fix stupid. Unfortunantly some of these people have IQ's less than some animals.

[88Nightmare]

For the sake of this conversation, clearly welfare is being associated with minorities. What else do we need to do to help minority people succeed?

Its disgusting to see how many students at UWM are there because they chose to go to school over jail. And of course, attend for free. They also don't give a fuck about anyone else there and don't care who they disturb while them and their friends carry on with their antics. Should I have to suffer because of this during my pursuit for an education since I couldn't afford to go to Marquette where they weed out the losers? I can't afford Marquette and their $15,000/semester tuition.

There was one student in my history class last semester who was a complete piece of shit. Dude would show up late to class by 10 or 15min, make a huge racket coming in, and no one would say anything to him about it. He carried around an attache` case with nothing but a Wisconsin Statute book in it (weird, I know). He would start reading through this statute book like it was a novel. After doing that for about 2 minutes, he would put it on the desk, walk back out of the classroom, come back 10 min later, then sit back down, and fall asleep on his statute book for the rest of class. Every once in awhile he would wake up and ask one of the dumbest questions you could ever think of. When we were discussing the holocaust and the t/a mentioned how 6 million jewish people died in the holocaust, dude pops up his head, and asks why the "jewish armies didn't help out their own people? Why didn't they protect them and shit?" Although it was funny, it was also annoying. This guy was only there because he happens to be a great basketball player.

On the other hand, a friend of mine, single, white, and a mother to her 3 year old daughter, enrolled in school after my encouragement. She wasn't happy with her dead end job and wanted something different. After doing everything by the book, the government is giving her enough money to get through school and survive if she supplements it with a part time job. She also receives food stamps, and state assisted daycare for her daughter. I don't disagree with that at all. She works full time right now, and come fall she will be attending school full time. She is legitimately trying to better herself.

My opinion? There is no invasion of privacy to requiring a drug test before receiving state money. As mentioned before, it is not impossible to better yourself, no matter whar walk of life you are from. The government has a SHIT TON of tools for you to use to better yourself, it is up to you to use them. YOU have to want it. The government can't force you to better yourself. As others said, if you can afford illegal drugs, you don't need welfare. I don't care what kind of drugs people do. Do it after you are gainfully employed.

Why should someone have to take a drug test before being gainfully employed but not to receive welfare? And people wonder why useless people in society make welfare their full time job....

[BR3W CITY]

Although a loath and in general don't support drug testing, I think there is merit to this use. It should be any companies choice to drug test or not....and you need to take the massive insurance discounts out of the equation, because enough $$ will change anyones idealism after a while.

IF you recieve welfare etc, you are on the goverments payroll. Just like an employee of any other job, they should have the right to test you.

[subliminal1284]

Lets not forget the ghetto fucks who enroll in school just long enough to collect their grant and student loan checks and then drop out 2 weeks later and keep the thousands of dollars they got to go to school. If you go to MATC you know exactly what Im talking about by the time the first semester ends half the students are long gone and they pull this scam every year. They need to make it so they do not recieve any actual cash or checks themselves and the funds go right to the school.

[88Nightmare]

funds DO go right to the school. when there is an excess amount above and beyond tuition, the school sends the student a check.