Moparjim
01-28-2011, 10:29 AM
So, let me preface this with the statement that my son is apparently a moron.
Vehicle is a 97 S10, 4.3L V6, 5 speed manual.
Issue may be related to one or both of these incidents.
Incident #1. While shoveling, I ask son who just got his license a few weeks ago, but has been around cars and ATVs and working on them with me for some time now and should know better to move the S10 so we can shovel that part of the driveway. While I continue shoveling, I hear him trying to start it by only turning the key like 1-2 seconds at a time, then turning it off. It pops and burbles the first few times he does this, but he does not crank it long enough, give it a little gas, or anything he should do to actually make it start like a normal person would. This goes on for maybe 5-6 tries or more and now I hear it just cranking not firing at all so I walk over and ask him what the heck he is doing. He recalls an earlier ATV incident where he had done the opposite and cranked the thing for like 30 seconds solid and I had told him you cant do that the starter will get hot, something must be wrong, etc. So apparently in his mind there is no in between 2 seconds and 30 seconds but whatever. Now the S10 at that point wouldn't start, wasnt firing at all, etc. so I just left it since it was dark and a weeknight etc. Few days later Saturday rolls around and I go to look into it and the truck fires right up. I did scan the codes and it had a P0108 Map sensor high voltage, but it cleared and the truck started right up. So, I figure that the kid probably just flooded it when he cranked it so many times without it starting and in the couple of days the plugs had dried out so now it started fine. Truck then starts and runs fine for the next few weeks.
Flash forward to incident #2 a few days ago. Son is driving truck to give his friend a ride home. IQ in car drops by a factor of 2 since theres 2 kids in the car. Despite having numerous discussions since I obviously have a lot of "fun" cars that there is absolutely no reason to beat on the "daily driver" cars since a) noone is going to be impressed by squeeling the tires on a 97 rusty S10, and b) none of these cars hes driving are HIS, and c) we need these cars for people to get to school and work he proceeds to beat on the S10. Story as best as I could drag out of him is he launched it fairly hard from a stop sign (despite the fact that its winter and roads are wet, etc. so noone is really going to be impressed with a rusty S10 spinning the tires in the snow/slush/water lol) . Then to quote him "the RPMS shot way up, then I forgot to shift sorta and they dropped way down and the truck was then barely running really rough and it wouldn't go anywhere so I shut it off". From that point on it wouldn't start. He says it kinda popped/burbled like before like it wanted to start the first few times, but now nothing it just cranks and cranks. So, I'm guessing he spun the tires, bounced it off the rev limiter, then killed it or whatever. I dragged it home and looked at it a bit and it indeed cranks and cranks but no indication that it is firing at all. I pulled the same P0108 code. I also pulled the plugs and they were soaked in gas, so I figured great, maybe he just overrevved it then killed it then screwed it up restarting it and flooded it again. So, I put a fresh set of plugs in it and replaced the MAP sensor for the heck of it, even though I believe it should start and run fine with the MAP sensor unplugged or dead even since the truck has a MAF sensor as well. From what I understand the MAP is only used to check the EGR and a few other ancillary things, maybe set timing advance. Anyways after new plugs truck still doesn't start, and it seems like its getting no spark per the old school pull the coil wire off and hold it near the coil. Another thing that sticks out at me as fairly screwy is that I had my scan tool hooked up and if I have it hooked up then start cranking it keeps going dead then restarting while I crank, and when I can read the live data while cranking I see a lot of zeros like RPMS stays at 0 while cranking. I am not sure if that is just how the port works like it shuts off when I go from on to start with the key, or if this is some sort of indicator of an ECU problem. I did compression test one cylinder thinking maybe he broke the timing chain and it seemed to have good compression. Currently it has no codes, seems to be getting fuel because the plugs get wet with gas, but no spark. I'm thinking if a sensor was bad or something computer controlled was stopping it from sparking that it would a) throw a code, and b) it wouldn't be adding the fuel, it would be cutting both if it was doing it "on purpose"
So, I'm leaning towards maybe he jumped the chain a few teeth, or maybe his incident #2 is just coincidence and the same problem from when it would start is back and maybe its a flaky ECU, dead or intermittant ignition component like the coil or there is what looks to be a little ignition module thing right next to the coil, or there still is what looks like a distributor on it.
Anyone familiar with the 4.6L let me know if anyone has any ideas.
Vehicle is a 97 S10, 4.3L V6, 5 speed manual.
Issue may be related to one or both of these incidents.
Incident #1. While shoveling, I ask son who just got his license a few weeks ago, but has been around cars and ATVs and working on them with me for some time now and should know better to move the S10 so we can shovel that part of the driveway. While I continue shoveling, I hear him trying to start it by only turning the key like 1-2 seconds at a time, then turning it off. It pops and burbles the first few times he does this, but he does not crank it long enough, give it a little gas, or anything he should do to actually make it start like a normal person would. This goes on for maybe 5-6 tries or more and now I hear it just cranking not firing at all so I walk over and ask him what the heck he is doing. He recalls an earlier ATV incident where he had done the opposite and cranked the thing for like 30 seconds solid and I had told him you cant do that the starter will get hot, something must be wrong, etc. So apparently in his mind there is no in between 2 seconds and 30 seconds but whatever. Now the S10 at that point wouldn't start, wasnt firing at all, etc. so I just left it since it was dark and a weeknight etc. Few days later Saturday rolls around and I go to look into it and the truck fires right up. I did scan the codes and it had a P0108 Map sensor high voltage, but it cleared and the truck started right up. So, I figure that the kid probably just flooded it when he cranked it so many times without it starting and in the couple of days the plugs had dried out so now it started fine. Truck then starts and runs fine for the next few weeks.
Flash forward to incident #2 a few days ago. Son is driving truck to give his friend a ride home. IQ in car drops by a factor of 2 since theres 2 kids in the car. Despite having numerous discussions since I obviously have a lot of "fun" cars that there is absolutely no reason to beat on the "daily driver" cars since a) noone is going to be impressed by squeeling the tires on a 97 rusty S10, and b) none of these cars hes driving are HIS, and c) we need these cars for people to get to school and work he proceeds to beat on the S10. Story as best as I could drag out of him is he launched it fairly hard from a stop sign (despite the fact that its winter and roads are wet, etc. so noone is really going to be impressed with a rusty S10 spinning the tires in the snow/slush/water lol) . Then to quote him "the RPMS shot way up, then I forgot to shift sorta and they dropped way down and the truck was then barely running really rough and it wouldn't go anywhere so I shut it off". From that point on it wouldn't start. He says it kinda popped/burbled like before like it wanted to start the first few times, but now nothing it just cranks and cranks. So, I'm guessing he spun the tires, bounced it off the rev limiter, then killed it or whatever. I dragged it home and looked at it a bit and it indeed cranks and cranks but no indication that it is firing at all. I pulled the same P0108 code. I also pulled the plugs and they were soaked in gas, so I figured great, maybe he just overrevved it then killed it then screwed it up restarting it and flooded it again. So, I put a fresh set of plugs in it and replaced the MAP sensor for the heck of it, even though I believe it should start and run fine with the MAP sensor unplugged or dead even since the truck has a MAF sensor as well. From what I understand the MAP is only used to check the EGR and a few other ancillary things, maybe set timing advance. Anyways after new plugs truck still doesn't start, and it seems like its getting no spark per the old school pull the coil wire off and hold it near the coil. Another thing that sticks out at me as fairly screwy is that I had my scan tool hooked up and if I have it hooked up then start cranking it keeps going dead then restarting while I crank, and when I can read the live data while cranking I see a lot of zeros like RPMS stays at 0 while cranking. I am not sure if that is just how the port works like it shuts off when I go from on to start with the key, or if this is some sort of indicator of an ECU problem. I did compression test one cylinder thinking maybe he broke the timing chain and it seemed to have good compression. Currently it has no codes, seems to be getting fuel because the plugs get wet with gas, but no spark. I'm thinking if a sensor was bad or something computer controlled was stopping it from sparking that it would a) throw a code, and b) it wouldn't be adding the fuel, it would be cutting both if it was doing it "on purpose"
So, I'm leaning towards maybe he jumped the chain a few teeth, or maybe his incident #2 is just coincidence and the same problem from when it would start is back and maybe its a flaky ECU, dead or intermittant ignition component like the coil or there is what looks to be a little ignition module thing right next to the coil, or there still is what looks like a distributor on it.
Anyone familiar with the 4.6L let me know if anyone has any ideas.