Under the Knife Lotus

[Dr.Buick]

Well had to start paying my friends for 2011. Murray gave me his invoice :rolf. this is were it's at so far. Just to get it ready to put on the hoist took about a 1/2 hour. the clam shell needs to come off so we can start the engine build.that is the plan this week



http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0137.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0138.jpg
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http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0144.jpg

[TheRX7Project]

Tomorrow....
http://www.my914-6.com/crap/PICT0077.JPG

LOL Man I can't wait to see that Lotus in person.

[Dr.Buick]

Tomorrow....
http://www.my914-6.com/crap/PICT0077.JPG

LOL Man I can't wait to see that Lotus in person.
Thats because they used lift ponts a&b to lift on a hoist you need to use B & C. makes a big diffrence were you lift these cars. Murray had the whole Lotus service manual. so if I can learn to read we are OK

[WhatsADSM]

Tomorrow....
http://www.my914-6.com/crap/PICT0077.JPG

LOL Man I can't wait to see that Lotus in person.

^^ Yea that's definately the last thing I want to happen.

Jim can attest to how much shit I was giving him making sure that we put it up on the 4-point lift correctly. IIRC it is jack points B&C that are explicitly spelled out in the manual for 4-point hoists. Even when up on the hoist correctly, it is still awefully rear heavy (70/30 weight distribution will do that).

I was telling him there will be no doing pull ups on the rear suspension components, like I do on his various GNs that are in his garage.

But yea looks like we will have to remove both the front and rear clams. I guess we can use this thread as the build thread, and take some pictures along the way.

[Flicktitty]

Looking good, whats getting done? Built motor n/a setup or a supercharged setup?

[Dr.Buick]

looks like the Tig welder is comming out for a turbo kit :wooo

[Prince Valiant]

I was telling him there will be no doing pull ups on the rear suspension components, like I do on his various GNs that are in his garage.

The results of which are plainly evident :goof :

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0138.jpg

Hiyo!
<<deserving of a zinger in return :goof

[WhatsADSM]

Lol you know me... always trying to pack on the pounds. Right after I finished my triathalon and benched 2 times my weight figured I would do a few hundred pullups on the GN. Brb gotta go juice up!

That or I was just a bored electrical guy staring at all the crazy mechanics of the GNX and thought "cool that sway bar is so big looks it could double as a pull up bar"

Leave it to the creepy old gym teacher to check out the younger guys! :goof

[PureSound15]

Very cool, can't wait to check it out in person.

[michelle]

Very cool, can't wait to check it out in person.

x2!

[Josepy]

cant wait to see the car

[jakedrew]

here is a 06 done up at a shop near me (wausau) http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/.

I think the shop here just did the tune on it. Not sure what it made # wise or any info on it. But I could find out as my friend works there.

but maybe some ideas as you were talking about a turbo:thumbsup

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318664420_1271078729_30527139_1014913_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs144.snc1/5340_1143318704421_1271078729_30527140_4717884_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318624419_1271078729_30527138_3099387_n.j pg

[jakedrew]

found some more pictures of this car on his site. Looks like it had a different turbo set up on it. probably some older pictures.

http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/PhotoGallery/0001%202006%20Turbocharged%20Lotus/index.html


are these turbo'd stock? I dont know anything about these cars. I would think they are not turbo'd stock.

Keep us updated on your project!

[FoxStang]

are these turbo'd stock? I dont know anything about these cars. I would think they are not turbo'd stock.

Keep us updated on your project!

NA four banger stock.


Looks really sharp, the other thread made me think you got a blue one. The yellow I think is the second best color for this car besides the orange. And you should def do a build thread.

[srt4eh]

I'm so jealous...that's definitely my next car...I'm tired of neons

[WhatsADSM]

found some more pictures of this car on his site. Looks like it had a different turbo set up on it. probably some older pictures.

http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/PhotoGallery/0001%202006%20Turbocharged%20Lotus/index.html


are these turbo'd stock? I dont know anything about these cars. I would think they are not turbo'd stock.

Keep us updated on your project!

Jake,
Just as FoxStang said it is a high revving NA 4-banger.
Also those pictures are very interesting. Actually looks like 2 different setups were on that car. One looks like a more conventional turbo with an A2A IC, while the other looks more extreme with a larger turbo, big IC piping and and an A2W IC.
I'd be very interested in what turbo it was, how was the response, what kind of power it put down and what transmission/ecu they are using. Honestly the turbo/IC setup looks a little too extreme for the stock transmission.. would be very curious to see what is being used.


NA four banger stock.


Looks really sharp, the other thread made me think you got a blue one. The yellow I think is the second best color for this car besides the orange. And you should def do a build thread.


We think alike! Ideally I was looking for an "CO" (Chrome Orange) elise.. but then this yellow one came along with all the right stuff in the other places (touring pack, sport pack, hardtop, low miles, right price) so I went for it. Unfortunately when dealing with a very low production vehicle like the elise, it is almost impossible to get everything you are looking for. Gotta be somewhat flexible. I'll keep the thread updated with pics/progress as it comes along then :thumbsup

[Exitspeed]

God I love those damn cars.

[GTSLOW]

here is a 06 done up at a shop near me (wausau) http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/.

I think the shop here just did the tune on it. Not sure what it made # wise or any info on it. But I could find out as my friend works there.

but maybe some ideas as you were talking about a turbo:thumbsup

[IMG]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318664420_1271078729_30527139_1014913_n.j pg[IMG]

[IMG]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs144.snc1/5340_1143318704421_1271078729_30527140_4717884_n.j pg[IMG]

[IMG]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318624419_1271078729_30527138_3099387_n.j pg[IMG]

Dam those cars are awesome!! I never knew they weighed so little. From that other gallery it looks like he had some fun with it at black hawk farms, I bet that thing owns there!

[stealthy1ss]

I like what I see happening already! :headbang

[Plum Crazy]

Cant wait to see it on HWY.

[spooln30]

Is that the Toyota engine?

[blizzard]

Is that the Toyota engine?

Yes. Correct me if im wrong but I believe the Elise comes with the 1ZZ-FE, same as the Corolla/Matrix CE, SE, and S models, some of the Celica's, Pontiac Vibe and possibly the Spyder. The exige comes with the 2ZZ-GE, same as one of the model Celica's and Corolla/Matrix XRS, and possibly one other car.

[Dr.Buick]

Yes. Correct me if im wrong but I believe the Elise comes with the 1ZZ-FE, same as the Corolla/Matrix CE, SE, and S models, some of the Celica's, Pontiac Vibe and possibly the Spyder. The exige comes with the 2ZZ-GE, same as one of the model Celica's and Corolla/Matrix XRS, and possibly one other car.

^^Not completely true.

Again Elise and Exige are essentially the same vehicle.

BOTH have the 2ZZ-GE.

Only real difference between the toyo version and the lotus version IIRC is the engine computer/tuning that gives the Lotus version 10hp more and a bit more torque.

[blizzard]

Certian models of the elise do come with the 1ZZ correct?

Either way im looking forward to seeing how this turns out. You may already know about them, but you might want to check out Monkeywrenchracing.com. They helped me turbo my 1ZZ and have a great deal of knowledge about both the 1ZZ and 2ZZ.

[Dr.Buick]

Certian models of the elise do come with the 1ZZ correct?

Either way im looking forward to seeing how this turns out. You may already know about them, but you might want to check out Monkeywrenchracing.com. They helped me turbo my 1ZZ and have a great deal of knowledge about both the 1ZZ and 2ZZ.
NO all Elise came with 2ZZ

[Prince Valiant]

thinking of the MR-2 sypder, perhaps?

[blizzard]

I knew the MR-2 came with the 1ZZ. With a little research there were some Elise that were rumored to be produced with the 1ZZ in Europe, but never made it to the US. That information was several years old and all speculation at the time so I'm not positive if it is correct.

[Waver]

No matter what engine it has in it, I am sure that after Jim and Murray are done with it the little Lotus that could will be a real screamer on both the track and on the street!

[Dr.Buick]

turbo is comming turbo is comming.
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0163.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0168.jpg
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http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0171.jpg
What the hell kind of car am I? :rolf
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0164.jpg
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http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/DSC_0167.jpg

[michelle]

Yamaha!

[Waver]

So I am curious, why did you all take apart the interior?

[Dr.Buick]

So I am curious, why did you all take apart the interior?
to take the clams off

[Reverend Cooper]

Yamaha,just like the older Sho's lol
its basically a Celica GTS motor.

[Reverend Cooper]

man vacuum that car out murray

[Reverend Cooper]

here is a 06 done up at a shop near me (wausau) http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/.

I think the shop here just did the tune on it. Not sure what it made # wise or any info on it. But I could find out as my friend works there.

but maybe some ideas as you were talking about a turbo:thumbsup

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318664420_1271078729_30527139_1014913_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs144.snc1/5340_1143318704421_1271078729_30527140_4717884_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs124.snc1/5340_1143318624419_1271078729_30527138_3099387_n.j pg
Holy Crap thats ed casars shop,my buddy dan had all his tuning there

[spooln30]

About four years ago my good friend worked for Mike Cudahy at Prototype Composites in Glendale. They made a all Carbonfiber Lotus and also swapped a Acurs Rsx-Type S fully built engine with a dry sump and ITB's and more goodies and man that car was super fast even with only a 250whp ish NA four cylinder. When I say all Cabon I mean everything went carbon. All interior pieces, body panels and even the intake box and the runners after the ITB's. And with the ITB's the throttle response was insane. Sounded like a F-1 car. If I find the pics I took I'll post them.

[WhatsADSM]

I knew the MR-2 came with the 1ZZ. With a little research there were some Elise that were rumored to be produced with the 1ZZ in Europe, but never made it to the US. That information was several years old and all speculation at the time so I'm not positive if it is correct.

Yea ALL Federal (i.e. U.S.A.) Elises and Exiges came with the 2ZZ. In Europe and Asia I believe you can get them with lesser engines including a Rover engine.. but definately in the states all Elises and Exiges come with a 2ZZ, some of them are factory supercharged.

I may very well buy some things from monkeywrenchracing, *still* not sure what direction the car will go. I had a line on an engine/turbo/ecu setup that someone was looking to get rid of but now it looks like the owner may flake out on me. :fire


So I am curious, why did you all take apart the interior?

Two of the bolts holding the rear clam on bolt from in the inside out. Additionally the upper window shroud and the engine lid bolts are all accessed from the interior of the car. So in the end you basically have to rip apart most of the interior to get the rear clam off... Not sure about the front one yet.


man vacuum that car out murray

I know. The guy actually sold me the car without washing it or vacuuming it :rolleyes:


About four years ago my good friend worked for Mike Cudahy at Prototype Composites in Glendale. They made a all Carbonfiber Lotus and also swapped a Acurs Rsx-Type S fully built engine with a dry sump and ITB's and more goodies and man that car was super fast even with only a 250whp ish NA four cylinder. When I say all Cabon I mean everything went carbon. All interior pieces, body panels and even the intake box and the runners after the ITB's. And with the ITB's the throttle response was insane. Sounded like a F-1 car. If I find the pics I took I'll post them.

Small world. I have a coworker who's wife worked at that same place I am pretty sure, and he was telling me all about that same car. Apparently the guys spent SHIT TONS of money getting just about every piece he could made in carbon fiber for his 06 exige. Honestly while cool, seems pretty crazy to me, almost the entire car is fiberglass and aluminum stock so there really isn't *that* much to be saved. However the K20 swap is definately bad ass, that is the engine that should have been in this car! Please do post up pics if you can find em!

Yup with 250whp these cars are pretty damn fast in a straight line. Figure the stock 165whp puts it into the mid 13s.. Just doesn't weigh anything. My goal for now will be a large powerband and around 300whp (maybe a touch more for cruising around on the street). When I go road racing I'll lkely knock it down to maybe 275ish. Going to be running on the stock transmission for a while so I really can't push it too far.

[spooln30]

Yea very true want DSM just said. The Overseas Lotus did come with a Rover engine. That is what the all CF Lotus I talked about org came with. A crappy Rover engine, which is why the K20 engine was swapped in. That Lotus was a UK Lotus I don't remember if it was RHD or LHD. I can't find the pics I took when Prototype Composites finished the car. I am 6'3" and 230 and I fit nice and snug in that Lotus and I could drive it with out fitment issues. Very cool sports cars. I would buy one if I had he money.

[jakedrew]

rev. cooper. I dont know Ed that well/ been in the shop 2 times and talked to him a few times. He is a super nice/knowledgeable guy! . My friend works there part time.

[Z33Art]

Super nice car! Looking forward to pics of the turbo kit as it's getting made!

[Reverend Cooper]

Jake who is your friend? Ed is a good friend of mine for many years, I am at his shop twice a week usually.

Oops, this is Dan (BadAss88GT) on Coop's computer.

[jakedrew]

wally ( jeremy)

[udlose98]

People will always ohh and ahh at Elise/Exige, but I can tell you I do not miss mine for a second. It was fun while it lasted and I am glad I had the chance to own one, but I am so much happier with my current car and the cars I had before it.

[WhatsADSM]

People will always ohh and ahh at Elise/Exige, but I can tell you I do not miss mine for a second. It was fun while it lasted and I am glad I had the chance to own one, but I am so much happier with my current car and the cars I had before it.

Boo hoo I'm sad for you. It's a love it or hate it car, nothing new there.

Been slow to update this thread as I am still deciding which way to go.

On the table is:


Keep the 2zz and do a mild build and use a bolt on supercharger kit
Keep the 2zz and do a mild build and do a bolt on turbo kit (yet to come out)
Keep the 2zz and do a mild build and do a custom turbo setup
Pull out 2zz, replace with Honda K-series and likely do a supercharger kit


I would LOVE to the do the last option (Honda K-series) however I am still skeptical about how complete the kit actually is. I believe it is being worked on (by Innovative Mounts) but I am getting led on about the true status. I am holding off because I do know that the K-series the best solution, however if it will not come to fruition then I am just wasting my time.

All I have really done, which is kind of cool, is interface to the stock lotus dash. I am doing this in the case I swap to a K-series just to verify that I can run the stock dash.
While that may not sound like that big of a deal dashes these days are getting pretty complex. As we know the days of cables driving vehicle speed on dashes are gone. However the days of dash receiving direct signals from the tachometer, CEL light, etc. are also dwindling. In the lotus everything is driven from the CAN interface (2-wire fully digital interface). So the ECU converts all of the signals like vehicle speed, rpm, water temp, etc. etc. and sends these messages digitally over CAN to the dash which displays the value. Isn't digital nice?

Well the downside of course is that swapping in something that is not the original ecu with that same exact digital message means the dash won't work. So I had a chance to see if I could control the stock dash via CAN and well. I can (no pun intended). :goof

So if I do go K-series good news is that I could layout some hardware and some firmware to convert the native Honda K-series signals into a digital CAN message to the dash, and use the stock dash!

1vAU6gqxY3o&hd=1

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Cool shit Murray. I vote K20

[Flicktitty]

i vote option 3. with one of the new PT5557 :)

[juicedimpss]

lt1 swap FTW

[SSLEVO]

If you are going to boost it to 300 whp who really cares what motor you start with? Just adding more cost at that point. The k20 is a cool motor though, she really pulls on the top end bone stock.

[WhatsADSM]

If you are going to boost it to 300 whp who really cares what motor you start with? Just adding more cost at that point. The k20 is a cool motor though, she really pulls on the top end bone stock.

Reliability, ecu options, transmission capabilities, aftermarket, and cost all factor in to what engine setup .

Gotta think big picture.

[TheRX7Project]

I'd go with the K series because like we discussed on the phone, price wise it's about even, and in the end you'd have a more bulletproof package if in the future you want more.

[Reverend Cooper]

scrap that valve bender

[nismodave]

Sr20det :D

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Sr20det :D

He wants a fast, fun, reliable car Dave

[wrath]

Ecotec to the rescue. That's what is supposed to be in there. Find a wrecked Cobalt SS/SC and have a good time.

http://www.secantvehicles.com/powertrain.html

[nismodave]

He wants a fast, fun, reliable car Dave

Im not going to mess up Murrays thread teliing everyone how much of a retard you are.

Good luck with build Murray.:thumbsup

[stealthy1ss]

Ecotec to the rescue. That's what is supposed to be in there. Find a wrecked Cobalt SS/SC and have a good time.

http://www.secantvehicles.com/powertrain.html

Even though I favor this idea I think Murry's K20 swap idea is going to be the better all around option. If he was to buy an LSJ and then put a turbo setup on it then he limits himself on reliablity with the stock pistons. Also the cost of aftermarket parts for the K20 is probably less expensive. What ever Murry does with this car it will be fast, fun, and reliable.

[WhatsADSM]

Ecotec to the rescue. That's what is supposed to be in there. Find a wrecked Cobalt SS/SC and have a good time.

http://www.secantvehicles.com/powertrain.html

Yea I am familiar with secant's stuff. They only do stuff turn key and I'm not paying 15-20k for a GM 4cylinder (although the lsj isn't a bad engine).


Im not going to mess up Murrays thread teliing everyone how much of a retard you are.

Good luck with build Murray.:thumbsup
Thanks.


Even though I favor this idea I think Murry's K20 swap idea is going to be the better all around option. If he was to buy an LSJ and then put a turbo setup on it then he limits himself on reliablity with the stock pistons. Also the cost of aftermarket parts for the K20 is probably less expensive. What ever Murry does with this car it will be fast, fun, and reliable.
You pretty much hit it on the head. K series reliability and aftermarket are untouchable. The k20 IS the engine that should have came in the car. It's a shame lotus and Honda don't get along.

If I do go k series I have a few options. Stock k20a2 + supercharger, built (hybrid) k24 all motor (may not get to 300whp but would be very close), maybe even built (hybrid) k24 + supercharger.

In any case I should know which way I am going by the end of next week hopefully. Although I said that last week so you never know.

[michelle]

I vote SHO motor. (:

Okay, maybe not for speed, but definitely for the looks. That's a pretty light car though, so you don't need a ton of power.

[wrath]

A LSJ can be had for under $1,500 if you look in the right places. I figure one will make a pontoon boat scoot. LNFs are pretty hard to find let alone cheap.

[stealthy1ss]

A LSJ can be had for under $1,500 if you look in the right places. I figure one will make a pontoon boat scoot. LNFs are pretty hard to find let alone cheap.

LNF's are a bad choice due to the limiting factor of it being direct injected because no one has come out with bigger injectors for it. Yes a LSJ can be had for around $1500 but the aftermarket for the K20 has more support and is much cheap because of that. Not to mention that the head of a K20 flows and has the potential to flow better than a worked LSJ head.

[Z33Art]

I vote custom turbo.

[jbiscuit]

Built k20, individual throttle bodies and have a ball with high revving vtec power. That car would fly with a built K-series in there. Aftermarket support, reliability, performance, and fun factor!

[SSLEVO]

The thing that pisses me off about the K20 is it's $700 for hondata just to tune the damn thing. That's stopped me from doing anything to mine.

[WhatsADSM]

The thing that pisses me off about the K20 is it's $700 for hondata just to tune the damn thing. That's stopped me from doing anything to mine.
Lol. Hondata is super reasonable compared to the tuning options for the 2zz lotus. If I keep the 2zz I have 2 options. First pay some guy $1000 - 1500 to do a custom tune on the stock ecu, that I am then stuck with. Or pay 3000 for a very average standalone and then tune it myself.
+1 for the k series.

wrath it has very little to do with what the cost of the engine is. Big picture people, big picture.

With a swap I need to deal with (and this is off the top of my head):
Mounts, axles, clutch hyrdolics, shift linkage, cable throttle conversion, interface to dash, wiring, end user tunability, water/oil/fuel hookups, headers.

[Dr.Buick]

I have been in the shop most of the day and making mounts are not the end of the world. I said LS or SB2 with a 106 mm turbo. One horse per pound

[stealthy1ss]

My guess is that what ever you do this thing will be running on corn?

[stealthy1ss]

I have been in the shop most of the day and making mounts are not the end of the world. I said LS or SB2 with a 106 mm turbo. One horse per pound


:rolf

[Dr.Buick]

:rolf
Corn is not ran out of this shop :shades

[srt4eh]

I'd like to see a srt4 engine in there....but seriously a built k24 and a custom turbo would be pretty sick

[Plum Crazy]

Just drop a HEMI in it!

(sorry, i had to)

[Dr.Buick]

Just drop a HEMI in it!

(sorry, i had to)
Dodges are not worth anything that would take this down to caliber value

(sorry had to)

[Plum Crazy]

dodges are not worth anything that would take this down to caliber value

(sorry had to)

lol!

[SSLEVO]

Corn is not ran out of this shop :shades

Whats wrong with corn? everyone can't afford Q1000000 at $15 a gallon:goof

[Josepy]

Im not going to mess up Murrays thread teliing everyone how much of a retard you are.

Good luck with build Murray.:thumbsup

Bwaah spit out my water when I read that. :rolf

[badass88gt]

For those interested the Done Rite car made 450 at the wheels at 17psi with a slipping clutch, you can go about 350 on stock internals. This car had MAJOR work done to it. I have a bunch of info but don't want to type it on my phone.

[WhatsADSM]

For those interested the Done Rite car made 450 at the wheels at 17psi with a slipping clutch, you can go about 350 on stock internals. This car had MAJOR work done to it. I have a bunch of info but don't want to type it on my phone.

interesting 450 at the wheels in a lotus would be insane. I'm curious what what done to the transmission, since it is pretty normal to blow them up at around 300whp let alone 450. The only real option is to swap to the e153 transmission, I sure hope that was done.

Edit also 300whp is the max most any 2zz tuner will go to, 350 on the stock engine is a ticking timebomb! Pistons are junk junk junk.

[badass88gt]

Funny you mention that, it survived for quite a while at 350, it was when he cranked it up that he lost a bunch if gears at BHF. It does have some fancy trans but I'm not real familiar so I couldn't tell you. I was told that he still has all the "Stage 1" stuff that was on it and it would be for sale if anyone is interested.

He had the block sent out for Darton sleeves, they cryo'd a bunch of stuff, Crower rods, it has a Delphi computer setup in it along with full Racepak data aq. and the Racepak dash fit right in the stock cluster spot, looks pretty slick. I don't remember what else but I guess pretty much everything. I have some pics but I'm posting from my phone, I will upload them tomorrow.

[Dr.Buick]

had some time today.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/009-4.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/010-4.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/011-4.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/014-3.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/015-3.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/016-1.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/017-2.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/018-2.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/019.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/020.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/021.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/022-1.jpg


LOOKS LIKE CLEANING IS NEEDED

[badass88gt]

Looking good, here's a couple pics of the Done Rite car. First pic is the original turbo setup before they changed it around and added the Air to Water IC.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/146800x600.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/043800x600.jpg

Racepak dash looks like it belongs there:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/112800x600.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/102800x600.jpg

[WhatsADSM]

Very interesting.. Yea the dash looks fairly stockish in there.

The latter A2W IC setup looks bad ass, but definately looks like it canabalized the rear clam and any trunk space it had:( Although the car does look as though it may still have A/C :) Looks like there is something being done to the shifter assembly inside the car so that is definately a hint that a transmission swap of some sort was done. Curious to see what it was.

In general that whole setup is VERY top dollar and pretty extreme! I am actually going for a more mild, more budget oriented (although "budget" is relative), and very streetable setup. I am looking for LESS than 400whp and most of all easy to drive, fun, and reliable. At 400whp+ with a turbo powerband, in short wheelbase, mid-engined, car known for its fragility... That is just something I don't feel I can handle (or really need for that matter). Could I have fun with 400wp+ in a straight line; SURE but a monkey can drive fast in a straight line. In the twisties on the other hand I'd likely hurt myself or my wallet (or both) :(

I am currently leaning towards internally stock K20A2 + rotrex supercharger (haven't picked which one, but likely the smaller C30-94) + A2W I/C.

[badass88gt]

Sorry for the thread hijack. I will try and find out the details on that trans swap. FWIW, I guess he has all the turbo stuff for sale from the first setup.

[Z33Art]

Digging how clean those setups are in the Lotus.


Looking good, here's a couple pics of the Done Rite car. First pic is the original turbo setup before they changed it around and added the Air to Water IC.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/146800x600.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/043800x600.jpg

Racepak dash looks like it belongs there:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/112800x600.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k157/badass88gt/102800x600.jpg

[Dr.Buick]

latest up date :rolf.
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/twin-turbo-gnx/001.jpg

[TheRX7Project]

^^^ :rolf

[badass88gt]

LOL, as is?

[WhatsADSM]

Lol.. yea like the sellers that tell u its in perfect shape just missing some minor cosmetic trim pieces. Won't start probably just needs a new battery.

[Z33Art]

I will pay will give you $5,000 cash as is!?!?

[Dr.Buick]

we are close do you need a title it has a paper vin any ways :rolf

[Z33Art]

Any new updates?

[WhatsADSM]

Not too much yet. Unfortunately, I am STILL waiting on innovative mounts to see if they are actually going to come through with this swap kit or not... Well more like come through with it within a decent time frame. They are clearly capable of delivering however here I am a month after I first started talking with them and was told parts were "available" yet I don't have a single piece in hand. Actually last week I called and gave them an ultimatum that they start shipping parts this week, or else I will start to look for other options. The response I got was "I should see tracking numbers this week"... but I am "cautiously optimistic"

In any case in the mean time I have picked up a low mileage K20A2 engine/harness/ecu, and also a K20A2 transmission.

http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update1_31_11/IMAG0425.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update1_31_11/IMAG0418.jpg

And for reference this is their more "top of the line" mount that the guy is using in his own exige build. So they make a good product.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f163/160300d1296401075-my-rebuild-k24-swap-abs-gone-center-drive-cage-some-other-goodies-mount1.jpg

[juicedimpss]

doesnt look like it would be too tough to make that mount murray..

[WhatsADSM]

doesnt look like it would be too tough to make that mount murray..

I hear ya.. who knows maybe you will get a call :) :thumbsup

But yea there are actually a bunch of pieces to the "kit", I just posted up that pic for reference of the quality of work and why at this point I am waiting.

The following would all need to be addressed:

Mount kit. 3 engine, 1 transmission IIRC.
New drive by cable pedal and throttle cable. Throttle cable mounting plate.
Shifter linkage kit. Mount the stock lotus shifter cables to the Honda transaxle.
Hydrolic clutch line
New custom axles: Honda inboard CV, lotus outboard CV, custom length axle.
Wiring
Dash interface
Headers
Misc lines (fuel, oil, water)

So of those I am comfortable that between myself and Jim we could resolve the clutch line, wiring, dash interface, headers, and the misc lines.

However the big pieces that are a little more difficult would be the mount kit, shifter linkage kit, new pedal and cable, and to some extent axles (although those can be sent out to a shop that can likely deal with them).

I'll keep ya posted though as it progresses. I'll definitely have to give you a call if I never end up with parts from innovative.

[Waver]

looking forward to seeing things as they progress

[Z33Art]

doesnt look like it would be too tough to make that mount murray..

Agreed!

[TURTLE]

if you need any help with this build murray, i'm always down to help turn a wrench whenever.... especially helping you swap out those junk billsteins... ;) lmao

looks good, can't wait to see the finished product....

[WhatsADSM]

So it has been quite a while and I am STILL waiting on parts to come in from innovative, although we are a lot closer than before. I have 2 of 3 full mounts, and the petal (but not the cable). Axles should be on their way.

So as for what route... So I honestly wanted to go the K20 + Rotrex supercharger route. However based on the location of the Rotrex supercharger on that kit (down by the A/C compressor) it simply would not fit in the Elise chassis :(. The kit manufacturer mentioned that they will have a new k-series kit coming out for the 06+ civic si that mounts the supercharger up top (which would probably work for me) however it wouldn't be out for a few months. So that really left me with two options:

A) Turbocharge the stock k20a2 I had here. (Likely the new BW EFR series - twin scroll, DBB, etc, etc)
B) All-motor K24

And so the following people were the closest:


About four years ago my good friend worked for Mike Cudahy at Prototype Composites in Glendale. They made a all Carbonfiber Lotus and also swapped a Acurs Rsx-Type S fully built engine with a dry sump and ITB's and more goodies and man that car was super fast even with only a 250whp ish NA four cylinder. When I say all Cabon I mean everything went carbon. All interior pieces, body panels and even the intake box and the runners after the ITB's. And with the ITB's the throttle response was insane. Sounded like a F-1 car. If I find the pics I took I'll post them.


Built k20, individual throttle bodies and have a ball with high revving vtec power. That car would fly with a built K-series in there. Aftermarket support, reliability, performance, and fun factor!

The final results are in and it will be a naturally aspirated Honda 4-cylinder taking place of a naturally aspirated Toyota 4-cylinder. :rolf

Not much of a change you say.. I know. So here is the quick run down on WHY I choose to go this route.

Well probably THE biggest reason is to maintain the balance/drivability/fun factor that the chassis is known for. An all-motor setup will have the BEST throttle response, and predictability especially when comparing to a turbocharged setup. Sure I won't make near the same power as a turbo setup, but it will be much more fun to drive. In a fragile car that is already ready to kill you (all fiberglass, light, wide, short wheelbase, mid engined) the last thing I really wanted to do was throw in a twitchy powerband like a turbo.

Next big reason is simplicity/reliability. I think this one goes without saying. No more worrying about heat from the turbo, blowing out turbo gaskets, pressure lines, I/C pipes, air-to-water lines, water pumps, etc. etc. Intake-->Engine-->Exhaust that's it. (As an aside it will be ~70ish pounds lighter I guesstimated going N/A)

And finally. I get a brand new engine out of it. Zero miles on the bearings, zero miles on the rings, zero miles on the gaskets, etc.

Interestingly enough cost was NOT a major concern. In fact given the fact I already had the k20 it was actually *more* money to go the N/A route.

So here is what the build looks like. It is a fairly simple mid level/mild k24 build. Although I don't think it will have any problem doing more than 2hp/ci (120hp/liter) N/A :stare.

Stock K24A4 (Honda accord/element) block and 99mm crank. Stock sleeves bored .020 over
Wiseco 12.5:1 forged pistons
Eagle forged H-beam rods
K20A2 (RSX-S) oil pump, and aluminum oil pan
Hytech or blueprint oil baffle kit (dry sump is too rich for my blood)
Stock K20A2 (RSX-S) head, with a light port around the bowls. These heads don't need much as they flow almost 300cfm at .550 out of the box :thumbsup
Supertech dual valve springs, with steel retainers
Kelford Type-B cams (IN 306*/13.5mm, EX 312*/12.5mm)
Skunk2 Intake manifold, and 74mm throttle body
800-1000cc injectors (so I can run 93 oct or e85)
Golden eagle fuel rail
Aeromotive FPR
BOE surge tank with internal 255.
Hondata K-pro ECU.
Headers are still up in the air. Either I will get a custom set from hytech if they are cheap enough, or else I will have to have them made and Jim says he is up for the challenge.

Also putting in a Competition Clutch "Super Single" (their single disk version of the twin disk), and a wavetrac limited slip diff.

And here is a picture of what I have so far for the swap kit. Clearly I am still missing quite a few pieces.

Hoping things will start arriving and I can start on it within 2 weeks or so. Engine builder is started on the project, and I am hoping to have some of the other major swap pieces in by then. We will see.

http://www.brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7502&d=1298858574

[SSLEVO]

looking good, that motor will be a lot of fun. They really have NO low end power though. A small fast spooling turbo would do wonders for the low/mid range. Something like a 16g or FPwhite. 800-1000cc injectors on that NA motor seems like overkill even for E85. I think the 1000's are good into the 450whp range on boost and e85.

[73MACH]

Damn, I wish I knew what the hell you were talking about......lol, ah well, it's in good hands. Good luck with the build Murray!

[WhatsADSM]

looking good, that motor will be a lot of fun. They really have NO low end power though. A small fast spooling turbo would do wonders for the low/mid range. Something like a 16g or FPwhite. 800-1000cc injectors on that NA motor seems like overkill even for E85. I think the 1000's are good into the 450whp range on boost and e85.

Yea its really all about the fun factor. As for the no low end power.. I think you are thinking of the 2zz (maybe k20). I am very confident that this engine will make ~200 ft.lbs at the wheels from about 3500 clear up to 7000 where it will start to taper off to the 8500 limit. That is actually roughlythe same torque to weight ratio as a new Ls3 Camaro (with clearly a lot better horsepower to weight ratio). Also the thing to remember about boost is not just when the turbo spools. That is NOT throttle response. Throttle response is about on, off, on response. Or on, off, half on, full on, which is important in a road race. A turbo car simply isn't good at delivering that response.

As for the injectors 650s would likely hit what I want them to but there is no need to run them hard. May as well get something a little bigger since control won't be much of an issue and cost to step up to 800s for example is nothing.


Damn, I wish I knew what the hell you were talking about......lol, ah well, it's in good hands. Good luck with the build Murray!

Thanks!

[srt4eh]

Nice...and to think I'm running about 650's on my srt-4 with a 20g lol

[SSLEVO]

Yea its really all about the fun factor. As for the no low end power.. I think you are thinking of the 2zz (maybe k20). I am very confident that this engine will make ~200 ft.lbs at the wheels from about 3500 clear up to 7000 where it will start to taper off to the 8500 limit. That is actually roughlythe same torque to weight ratio as a new Ls3 Camaro (with clearly a lot better horsepower to weight ratio). Also the thing to remember about boost is not just when the turbo spools. That is NOT throttle response. Throttle response is about on, off, on response. Or on, off, half on, full on, which is important in a road race. A turbo car simply isn't good at delivering that response.

As for the injectors 650s would likely hit what I want them to but there is no need to run them hard. May as well get something a little bigger since control won't be much of an issue and cost to step up to 800s for example is nothing.



Thanks!

I'm just talking about the K20 that's in my civic. I forget you are building the 2.4L up so that will help. I think my motor only makes about 140 ft-lbs, lol. I did a few trackdays in my old evo and didn't think the throttle response was horrible but i get what you are going for. I never really wound my car out in a twisty stretch until about a year after i got it. Surprisingly it was actually kind of fun, probably would be a hoot at blackhawk, road america, not so much, lol.

[TheRX7Project]

Lookin good! Now is this one going to end up in Eurotuner?

[HP ADDICT]

Murry there is still time to get a Z06 as a winter car..

[WhatsADSM]

My build: Status Update 03/21/11

So it has been a few weeks since my last update, and ordering parts and waiting has been the name of the game. Although at this point I basically have everything ordered and many of the parts in hand. All that is left to order/deal with is the custom stuff, that I will need to do once the engine is the car.. Such as the custom exhaust system, custom fuel lines, and intake.

The major parts I am still waiting to come in are the engine from the builder, and the remaining swap parts from Innovative. Although I know that I have another wave of swap parts in shipment which should be here early this week, and the engine is scheduled to arrive, according to the freight company, in the middle of the week.

So while I am waiting I have been trying to make the best use of my time as I could. So I have really done the following:

Ported the Skunk2 Intake Manifold to work with the 74mm throttle body. So I know it sounds kind of funny to have to port match two intake pieces from the same manufacturer, but the reason for this is because they design the manifold so that *most* normal throttle bodies can be bolted right on, like the stock RSX TB (which I think is a 64mm or something like that), or a few of the aftermarket ones which range in size up to about 70mm. However the skunk2 74mm is bigger than most so you need to port-match it, which is pretty easy. In fact here is a how-to that they released on it:
Skunk2 Racing: Skunk2 How-To: Throttle Body Port-Matching (http://cms.skunk2.com/id/469/Skunk2-How-To-Throttle-Body-Port-Matching/)

Here are a few shots of my work (kudos to my buddy Jim for helping smooth out my work a bit more as well):
Showing the template and me starting:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0511.jpg
Showing (pretty close to) the final result:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0513.jpg

While I was doing this my buddy took out the stock oil coolers cut off the BSP fitting, and welded on a -10AN fitting. I am doing this so that I can use the stock sport oil-coolers with my K24. I know there are cheaper ways of just using the stock lines, but given the issues that exist with the lines I wanted to just fix the problem before it ever happened. Busting an oil line and spewing oil under your tires is scary enough, off course the no oil pressure to the engine doesn't help much either.

Quick picture of the new -10AN fitting welded on to one of the stock coolers.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0514.jpg

Next I put on the two pieces of the mount that I could. This included the chassis portion of the driver side mount, as well as the chassis portion of the torque mount (rear).

Pictures of the chassis portion of the driver side mount:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0518.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0519.jpg

Picture of the chassis portion of the rear mount:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0517.jpg


Next I got in my toe-links from BOE, so I figured I may as well throw those in quick... Sure was easy to install those things with no clam or engine in the car.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0523.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0525.jpg


My dash converter project has been started. So I think eventually Innovative will be offering a converter than can be used with the Hondata K-pro to run the stock Lotus dash. Although I'm pretty sure it won't be ready on time for my swap. So I took matters into my own hands. I have started on my own dash converter. This is my comfort zone so it has been a pretty fun little project thus far. I am going to be running a PIC18F series uC with CAN, and interfacing directly to the signals from the Honda ECU/Lotus Chassis. Like coil signal for RPM, VSS sensor for speed, CTS (coolant temp sensor) for engine temp, and Fuel level (which I still have to do a little research on). I may also wire it to the CEL light and low oil pressure switch output on the K series as well to have a truly full solution. I was actually super excited because I found some off-the-shelf hardware that will do almost everything I need it to except the analog filtering.. and it was fairly inexpensive to boot!
So far I have the basics going. I got the uC flashed and I have it sending the proper CAN frames. Additionally I have added to the code that I can without a running car, which means I have the RPM signal interfaced, and I took a shot at the vehicle speed based on the tire size and guesstimated 4-pulse per turn honda VSS sensor. I can always calibrate it later like I will need to do for the water temp and fuel temp anyways.
If anyone is interested, I am willing to make more of these if need be, and I should be able to interface to just about any engine and convert it for the Lotus Dash. Just PM me :up:

Here are some little pictures of some of the hardware sitting on my desk:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0541.jpg
Picture of the pretty enclosure it will go into once its done:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0542.jpg

And finally the LSD install. I had the transmission and just got the LSD, and bearings, and speedo gear in. I decided to get new bearings and speedo gear while I was in there, and I was happy I did! When I opened the trans up I found that clearly someone had been in there before and the bearings had some decent scratches/dents in them and the speedo gear has some noticeable wear. Here are some pictures of the LSD install. For reference there is a GREAT writeup online that was done by modified magazine for the K-series:
Wavetrac LSD Installation - Interlock - Modified Magazine (http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-1003-wavetrac-lsd-installation/interlock.html)

Just a few steps after starting to removing lots of the little pieces on the case:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0533.jpg
Old Open Diff Out:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0535.jpg
Picture of the old open diff and LSD side-by-side. Note the ring gear will need to be swapped over, and the new bearings/speedo gear have not been pressed on yet:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0537.jpg
This is why you would buy new bearings/speedo gear.. Because the guy before you may have given you this (or your old stuff just might not be in great shape). Note the dented bearing shield from someone improperly removing that bearing, and the chewed up speedo gear, from being previously removed/reused:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0538.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0539.jpg
New LSD in.. buttoning it all back up. Actually I make it sound a little easier than it was. We actually had to take the case on/off 4 times... as the clip at the top by the countershaft kept getting in the way. You have to make sure you spread that clip as much as possible WHILE lowering the case on.. It's a little bit of a PITA, but it will go.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update3_21_11/IMAG0540.jpg

That's all. Stay tuned, hopefully should have more to come next weekend!

[GTSLOW]

Lookin good!

[Haulin' Oates]

Sweet car man, really enjoy watching your builds!

[Dr.Buick]

man that guy has some big EARS

[WhatsADSM]

Been a while since I updated so..

My build: Status Update 04/14/11

So it has been a few weeks, and there has been some progress.

Most notably is the fact that I have essentially every Honda/engine related part I need. The engine came in along with all other minor parts, bolts, tensioner, wiring stuff, fuel stuff, exhaust stuff, etc.

Also some more swap parts came which included the throttle cable/bracket and both axles. However, I am STILL waiting on the final mount and shifter assembly.. but more on why that matters later.

So last I left off I mentioned that we had welded -10AN fittings on to the stock oil coolers as I planned to just change the entire hose system and everything over to AN fitings and hose so that I can eliminate the known issue of oil bursting that plagues the S2 Elise/Exige. So here are some pictures of the final result. Overall it turned out great, but I'm not going to lie to you running the oil lines through the rocker panels was a PITA! Honestly if I had to do it all over again I would probably just stick a decent sized oil cooler on the passenger side in the rear with maybe a fan on it and be done with it. I suspect that would have worked decently well, at least for my car which isn't a full blown race car, and just sees minor race duty. For reference for anyone pulling new oil lines through this is the method I used:
1) Take off underbelly protectors, including the one directly under the gas tank.
2) Remove plastic for door sill.
3) Unhook any clips holding the lines to the body in the back just as it goes into the body and in the front (via the access you opened up by removing the sill).
4) Cut off the BSP ends from the original hose.
5) Take new line and old line and butt them up together.
6) Drill a small hole about a half inch to an inch in on both lines and run wire between the two, twist the wire and flatten it as much as possible. Do this again so that you have 2 or 3 wire looped together holding the lines together.
7) Take some strong masking tape or duct tape and tape up the union you have made. Tape over the wire connections, but keep the tape to as minimal as possible. Any tape you add here is adding diameter to the union making it harder to pull through.
8) Rub the whole union down with a little bit of oil to help aid it through.
9) Attempt to pull the new line through with the old line. I found 2 people works best here, but one would probably work if you went back and forth between the front and back of the car ensuring there was slack on both ends as you go.

Close up picture of the Aeroquip push lock -10 line mated to the stock oil coolers:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0561.jpg
Picture of both new lines from the front of the car (The hoops in the front fenders)
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0563.jpg
Picture of the Mocal oil sandwich adapter I used. I will talk more about this later, but I got the one with thermostatic control (highly recommended for a street car).
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0568.jpg

The big news is that I got the engine assembled. I ordered a longblock (well I supplied the head as mentioned earlier), and so I was responsible for assembling all of the ancillaries. Here are a few quick pictures I snapped of the K24/20 on the stand once we got it in:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0007.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0089.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0129.jpg

So I put on the blueprint oil baffle (helps prevent any oil starvation), switched the k24 windage tray for the k20 version and switched the steel k24 oil pan for the aluminum k20a2 version:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0176.jpg

Now I was responsible for putting in a new tensioner, and after turning the engine over by hand and verifying static timing I had a few doubts about how it was set by the engine builder (to me it appeared the exhaust cam was retarded by one link), so I simply decided to redo the timing myself. On the K-series it is actually VERY VERY easy, well documented in the FSM. However here is a quick run down with some pictures.
Basically you first remove the tensioner as described in the manual (stick a pin in it, to make sure it isn't allowed to fully expand).
You then put the engine at TDC, along with the cams. For the crank there is a triangle that matches with a mark in the block. For the cams there is a punch mark in the cam gear that needs to be UP. You then essentially match up the "colored" links with the marks in the crank gear and cam gears, and ensure the lines in the cam gears are aligned straight across. Once the chain is around all 3 gears simple install the tensioner and pull the pin. Again, refer to the FSM for more detail but here are some quick pictures:

Crank set at TDC, and the timing chain aligned. Note the single colored link is aligned with the middle of the mark (applies to both k24 and k20):
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0251.jpg

Cam gears at TDC, anc the timing chain aligned. Note the marks are in between the 2 colored links for each cam gear (applies to k24, I believe k20 is just a single colored link), and note the cam gear lines are straight across (applies for both k24 and k20):
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0283.jpg

I am skipping a few steps here, as I did not take any pictures along the way. But I then installed the water pump and associated bracketry, along with the alternator. I then installed the skunk2 intake manifold, skunk2 74mm throttle body, and k20a2 crank pulley:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0287.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0284.jpg

I then installed the K-Tuned power steering eliminator kit. Something like this is needed for the K-series into an Elise since the Elise has a manual steering. In this case I used the K-Tuned power steering eliminator kit for the K24/20, this is not to be confused with their P.S. eliminator + alternator relocation kit. YOU DO NOT WANT TO RELOCATE THE ALTERNATOR (space reasons). I used the serpentine belt that came with the kit and it fit pretty well. Alternately you can use the cheaper OEM EP3 power steering idler, and then source your own belt depending on k20 or k24. I decided on the K-Tuned kit because it is just a little lighter, prettier, and most importantly does have some static adjustment which helps to ensure the auto-tensioner is operating within its normal range:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0575.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0286.jpg

I also installed my P2R motor mount bracket. Unfortunately I did not take a picture of it, but it is noteworthy. Because in terms of mounting all k-series kits are designed for the k20, the motor mount bracket on the front of the engine is the incorrect size with the k24, due to the physical size difference in the block. To counteract this you can use I believe it is the OEM CRV engine mount bracket, or simply use the aftermarket P2R bracket. I chose the P2R bracket again because it was light and a little prettier, and was only a few bucks more expensive.

I also installed the hybrid racing fuel rail with my FIC 775cc injectors. More about the fueling later, just thought I would mention it as a step here.

With the longblock assembled I then moved on to installing my clutch. I am using the competition clutch "super single" which is essentially a single disk version of their twin disk. It was recommended to me by Club RSX given my power level (and that I may throw some nitrous on there for ****s and giggles at some point), as well as competition clutch directly. I am not going to lie to you, to this day I wonder if I made the right decision here. I honestly think I may have went to much on the "Race" side and not enough on the "street" side. The more I think about it, the more I think I would have been really happy with the "Stage 2" full faced disk version with a increased pressure plate clamping force. It should hold the N/A power fine, and would be a lot more friendly on the street, and likely last a lot longer. Oh well for now I will stick with the super single it is certainly a very nice piece. The whole assembly with the flywheel weighs in at 15.6 lbs!! And it also included a very nice hydrolic TOB as well. I only got one picture of it going on, this is with the flywheel portion being bolted to the crank with the single assembly off. Don't forget loctite!
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0550.jpg

So before I bolted the transmission on I decided to check the clearance on the differential as mentioned earlier in this thread. The spec is 0.000"-.004" and the smallest my feeler gauge goes to is .005" What I found was that the .005 fit about right, maybe a hint too tight. So all-in-all I am on the loose side of spec, possibly less than a thousandth out... So be honest I don't really think I need to worry about it.

So I then bolted on the mount for the drivers side (i.e. the transmission mount). Here is a shot of it. Well made piece, fit very well:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0567.jpg

Additionally I bolted on the rear mount. This mount goes through the ear of the engine block and into the transmission. I did this with the engine still in the air before I attempted to lower the assembly into the chassis. What I found though, was that doing it this way it really gets in the way of lowering the engine/transmission assembly past the (rear most crossmember of the) aluminum subframe. I suggest getting the whole assembly past the subframe first, and then bolting this piece on, which is what I did eventually.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0566.jpg

About to lower the engine in. For those doing the swap remove the charcoal canister. I am not sure if the swap will actually allow for this to be used, although most people won't bother with it anyways:
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0570.jpg

AND.... the moment of truth. Does it fit?
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0574.jpg
^^ Sure looks awefully natural in there.
Additionally I decided to test fit the rear clam just to see how much room I had to work with the fueling stuff, header, etc. Looks like all will fit :)
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0577.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0578.jpg

So finally I moved on to the fuel system. I eventually found a home for my surge tank, my fuel filter, my fuel pressure regulator, and all my lines. Ok quick explanation about my fuel setup.
A) I wanted to eliminate the fuel starve issue before I ever ran into it.
B) I am a forced induction guy at heart. And so it is a bit of a holdover from my forced induction learning to always make sure you have enough fuel
C) I am a midwesterner and e85 is cheap and plentiful. So my fuel setup even N/A is setup so that it can be run if need be. e85 requires roughly 30% more fuel than a comparable gasoline setup.
D) Prep in case I want to go forced induction (read lots more airflow in the future). All I would need is a decent pump in the tank and I'm good to go.
Ok so please don't as me why I went so overboard on my fuel setup. It is FIC 775s (good size of e85 N/A 300whp with a bit of headroom - i.e. reasonable duty cycles). Integrated Engineering surge tank with Bosch 044 fuel pump (http://www.intengineering.com/Integrated-Engineering-p8917398-1-2.html). Quick rant walbros are total junk, I have killed 4 of them in my years of modifying (mostly due to low gas). Bosch flows more than a 255hp and has better reliability. Bosch fuel filter. Aeromotive compact EFI universal regulator, all -6AN lines. Here are some quick pictures of the fuel setup. Note, I have taken Phil's advice and simply ran the -6AN line directly to the barb coming off the tank.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0576.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0583.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0586.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0585.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0588.jpg

So I think that's about it. At this point I am still waiting on the parts from Innovative to come in. I really can't make much more progress until I get those namely the passenger side mount, since I can not assume the location of the engine is correct. I currently have a floor jack holding up that side of the engine. Once those parts come in Jim will be moving on to making the header, and in the mean time I will be researching all I can about how to run all of the water lines, vac lines, and of course the wiring.

As promised here are some pictures of fitment. As I stated these may change slightly based on the exact fitment of the passenger mount. But they are generally good. I am also including the closest area of fitment which is the IAC valve and its connector. I will need to remove the metal plate at the firewall and likely cut away some of the carpeting to ensure that there is better clearance for the wiring/connector. As it sits it's an accident waiting to happen.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0571.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0572.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0573.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/Build/Update4_10_11/IMAG0584.jpg

[badass88gt]

Very impressive.

[srt4eh]

sweet dude....

[WhatsADSM]

Alright I could keep going with the build thread... but I figure you are more interested in seeing the car go than all the nitty gritty.

Drove the K24 elise to the work today and one of my coworkers (also an avid Elise/Exige lover) was kind enough to take some videos for me. So here are a few acceleration videos, as well as a little drive by I did (off the limiter none-the-less).

Anyways enjoy, she scoots. Especially for not being all the way tuned in and with a passenger:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVALzpn5Wlk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrbNR8XT2cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk2d-YfkGEM

Muther-fuckin vtec bitches! Seriously though moves pretty damn well for an all-motor 4 popper. One of the first nights I got it back I was having fun and datalogging for shits and grins. I have a few logs with 0-60 times in the low to mid 3s :stare

[Josepy]

Very Nice that thing moves out well.

[stealthy1ss]

When can I get a ride?

[WhatsADSM]

When can I get a ride?

Whenever. I'm sure I'll be out and about and meeting up with people now that it is all together. Not to mention it is actually cheaper on gas than my DD (Murano). So when I don't have the dog and the weather is decent, I'm driving it.

P.S. I may hit you up about your go pro, assuming all goes well and I make it to some HPDEs.

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Murray,

Car is impressive. If you want a GoPro, i can get a discount on a brand new one. Just let me know.

[jbiscuit]

very sweet Murray! Can't wait to check it out in person. I will always love the sound of a Honda mill...rice or not VTEC sings

[stealthy1ss]

Whenever. I'm sure I'll be out and about and meeting up with people now that it is all together. Not to mention it is actually cheaper on gas than my DD (Murano). So when I don't have the dog and the weather is decent, I'm driving it.

P.S. I may hit you up about your go pro, assuming all goes well and I make it to some HPDEs.

Anytime you want to borrow the camera just let me know. If you are going to RSD this Friday it might be sweet to get video of you pulling on cars that don't see it coming.

[GTSLOW]

Fuckin awesome! Glad to hear the hard work panned out.

[srt4eh]

love it....I need to make a trip to Wisconsin meow

[TheRX7Project]

When can I get a ride?

+1 bad ass dude

[Flicktitty]

Very cool Murray, looks like a RIOT!

Maybe next friday after you tune Liz's 240 you could take me for a ride.

[WhatsADSM]

Thanks guys! Yea its been a lot of work getting to this point especially with "the incident" with the oil line popping off and hurting the engine.

In any case I did want to thank everyone that helped out. Had a few people online, some over the phone help, and of course help from a few BCMers. And of course Jim (Dr. Buick) for spending many late nights out there with me, and being kind enough to let me use his garage for WAY longer than I should have ;). No doubt without everyone's help it wouldn't be where it is today. :headbang

[Wagonbacker9]

In before bad news.....

Left GLD, turned left onto the onramp and my headlights swept past a yellow Lotus sitting on the shoulder... :sadface:

[michelle]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294657_729148740118_219700023_36500706_4431729_n.j pg

Yep. It's back home now, safe and sound.

[Dr.Buick]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294657_729148740118_219700023_36500706_4431729_n.j pg

Yep. It's back home now, safe and sound.

Its not sound it has some added sounds. I feel bad for the little guy!

[DR.FORD]

Damn-feel bad for Murray.
That thing was flyin'!!
I got a feeling it will get more added features while being repaired!!!!

[Wagonbacker9]

Damn-feel bad for Murray.
That thing was flyin'!!
I got a feeling it will get more added features while being repaired!!!!

When I stopped to talk to him and see if there was anything I could do for em, he mentioned something like that... it sounded like a great idea to me.

[FoxStang]

So what happened, and what possible upgrades might come of it?

[jbiscuit]

sad news for the swapped Lotus. Hoping it will be back and better than ever soon

[LIZMO]

that sucks man, what ended up happening to the car?

[BlackLightning]

sucks to see you hurt the lotus. that thing was moving and the people in the stands seemed to love it.

I went to see boost12 vs turbo gt and was surprised it was such a good turnout this time. The last few I went to seemed to have low car counts.

[Wagonbacker9]

that sucks man, what ended up happening to the car?

he was hearing a rod knock. Had oil pressure though.

[GTSLOW]

So what did it turn before going down?

[srt4eh]

oh no....I'm sad now :(

[michelle]

So what did it turn before going down?

He made three passes. I'm not sure if he is announcing what he ran, but the crowd sounded like they were watching fireworks "oooooh aaaaah". :goof

[spooln30]

Yeah that Lotus is def fast. Really suprised me at the tracka

[Dr.Buick]

So what did it turn before going down?

easy to get a rough guess 285 rwhp and a 1900 pound car = 10 sec pass HIGH if all is perfect in his case he had tire spin bad

[WhatsADSM]

Definately a ways off a 10 second pass. But none the less for a road racer it had plenty of go.. had a lot more mph than i expected. With the literally road race street tires (star specs) it was a low 12 second far would have probably been a mid 11 on a drag radial.

As for what happened.. it spun number 1 rod bearing. The question is why. Oil pressure was good, nothing off about the tune, and i had the bottom end professionly done by blueprint racing out in California. They are going to get a very nice call this week ;) I'm pissed to say the least. This will be the THIRD time his engine is built and going into this car in 500 miles.

[nismodave]

sr20det...:)

But seriously, I hope you can find out why this keeps happening, and fix it permannently.

[srt4eh]

They definitely better fix it....good luck

[WhatsADSM]

sr20det...:)

But seriously, I hope you can find out why this keeps happening, and fix it permannently.

Yea so for those who don't know this is the second honda engine that has been in here.

The first was built by RS Machine, in CA. This engine failed because I had a pushloc line on my oil cooler pop off on the dyno and the thing lost all of its oil and oil pressure at around 7000 RPM while WOT. The engine wasn't knocking but when I pulled some bearing they looked pretty bad and were ready to spin. So I think took that engine out and disassembled it and paid King Motorsports to look it over. King noticed a few things. A) They used ACL bearings which in a Honda is kind of like cutting a corner. Honda specs tolerances to .0001" (that's a tenth of a thousandth. i.e. 10x higher than most other manufacturers). So to get those kind of tolerances you need to use color coded honda bearings. Also King found that the hone on 2 of the cylinders was too coarse and had eaten away most of my rings on those cylinders anyways. So although my oil line blew, had it not occured the engine would have likely eaten its rings to death shortly there after. (Mind you this engine had only about 50 miles and 2 hours of dyno time on it).

So honestly there wasn't much I could say to RS machines since clearly the major cause of failure here was the oil line popping off... However there were some corners cut my RS machines that would have eventually showed. Sooo...

I had to now shop around for a new shop and ideally one that would let me do a core exchange (since my block now needed to be rehoned and doing so would have left too large of a piston-to-wall clearance.

I eventually settled on Blueprint Racing also in California. They are fairly well known in the Honda engine world with generally good reviews. I shipped them my engine along with my rods/pistons/crank and got this shortblock in return. I also had King clean up the head to ensure no lingering metal pieces were there, and I disassembled, inspected, and clean my oil pump. I put the engine back together and everything looked good. I followed Blueprint's break in guide and the engine was on its 3rd oil change (standard dino oil) within 300-400 miles. Oil pressure looked good. Drove around for a week or 2 watching things closely and everything honestly looked great, so I took it to the track. Car ran great, got three logs and everything looked great. It wasn't until I started it to go home that I heard the knock.

So moral of the story.. We know why it blew the first time, and it was unfortunate, but it wasn't the builders fault (well partially). The second time though we don't know why it failed, but it sure doesn't seem like anything that I/we did. The engines failed for entirely different reasons

I am certainly spooked about the whole ordeal. The most ironic part is that I built this car N/A for 2 reasons.
A) For great linear response. It delivered with two thumbs up on that one.
B) Reliability. N/A and Honda, what's not to like. I should be able to beat this thing for 25 minute sessions HPDE sessions no problem. And of course the irony is, I've never had a more unreliable engine setup in my life. I don't believe for one second that it's Honda's fault. More so that I have been generally unlucky and my engine builders don't appear to be checking and taking the time that they should.



They definitely better fix it....good luck

I will certainly keep this thread updated with what happens.

I got the rear clam off again, and hope to have the engine out, on a stand and torn down by the end of the week.

[WhatsADSM]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294657_729148740118_219700023_36500706_4431729_n.j pg

Yep. It's back home now, safe and sound.

Big thanks to Jim, Adam, and Michelle. They were kind enough to go back out to Hubertus from Racine and pickup their trailer late at night. All I know is I got home just shortly after 2. I'd bet they got back to their houses after 3!
I really do appreciate the help!


Damn-feel bad for Murray.
That thing was flyin'!!
I got a feeling it will get more added features while being repaired!!!!

Thanks! Nice seeing you again, it's certainly been a while. I was a little bummed I didn't get to see the Fearmont. It looked pretty bad ass on the vids I saw of it at one of the last RSDs!


When I stopped to talk to him and see if there was anything I could do for em, he mentioned something like that... it sounded like a great idea to me.

Thanks for stopping, GTO did sound good ;).


So what happened, and what possible upgrades might come of it?

So to be honest.... when it blew the last time I told myself that if it cost me over 2k to fix it, it would have to sit until next year. Blueprint did the rings/bearings for just under that, but now that it blew... I am basically telling myself, no more money. Or certainly not much. Sometimes you just have to know when to call it quits. I love the car, and as I told my wife - "it's pretty much the most fun you can have on 4 wheels" but ultimately my family life does have to take priority.

What I am starting to look into is this. I am so spooked about the whole thing I am honestly thinking about just putting in an OEM honda engine. That way I don't have to worry about any of these aftermarket builders or aftermarket parts. The stock 2.4l from the TSX (likely with the head off my current engine) is starting to look like a very real possibility. If I go that route and keep it N/A it will CERTAINLY loose a considerable amount of power since it will have lower compression and will not be able to be revved nearly as high making my cams kind of useless and the whole setup just not right. The upside to this is that I may actually even lower the compression even more with a larger headgasket when I swap heads. That would give me a fairly boost happy compression ratio (10 to 10.5). Which means I would be considering using some form of a supercharger on the car. Unfortunately all of the supercharger options kind of suck (i.e. are way to small for an engine that flows that well). But none-the-less if I did supercharge the stock TSX engine, I'm sure I could get at least what I got out of the N/A setup. Problem is I doubt I will have the cash for the supercharger since I got screwed with all this rebuilding crap.

[GTSLOW]

Man that's to bad. Well hopefully the situation falls on the most recent builder and you can get a new engine for free. Or at least the money back.

Hats off to them for helping out with their trailer.

[WilliamZ]

Wow, how frustrating... Like you said, supposed to be a reliable setup. I hope it works out for you somehow!

[Wagonbacker9]

Thanks for stopping, GTO did sound good ;).

lol thanks, thats the number 1 thing I hear about the car.

[Wagonbacker9]

any update on this thing?

[WhatsADSM]

any update on this thing?

Somehow missed this post. Sorry about this.

Well the engine is back at Blueprint in Cali.... and as I worried they are being a bit reluctant to even start on the thing. I am getting pretty pissed to say the least!

However the good news is I have decided that I am just going to be done with it and go the supercharger route. I absolutely LOVED the N/A route and it was plenty fast I just got burned with bad luck and engine builders/parts that didn't work as designed.

So I will be going with a nearly 100% stock longblock from an 06-08 Acura TSX, and bolting on a nice supercharger kit. Only mods on the engine will be a k20a2 oil pump (better resistance to cavitation), and my oil baffle kit. The supercharger will be an MPx90 kit from Magnum Powers which is a MUCH larger blower roots style blower than the MP62 that most use - Although given how well the Honda mill flows it the right supercharger. I know I will be running primarily e85 and so I will need to step up in injector again to somewhere around 1000cc, and I am currently trying to decide whether I should aftercool it or not. I think for now I will just plan on running lower boost, e85, no aftercooler (intercooler). Keep it simple.

What I expect to see:
1) Lower rev limit. The stock k24 just can't spin like my built N/A motor did. My redline will come down from 8400 to 7600. This will also mean my gears will expire quicker :(
2) More power. Even with the lower redline, at the end of the day its forced induction. I am expecting somewhere around 10-12psi and somewhere between 320 and 350whp (for reference my old setup was just shy of 290whp). 320-350 is what I originally wanted for power. :)
3) TORQUE!!! Lots of it, and because it is still a roots (positive displacement) blower nearly all of the torque will be available at just off idle :) I used to have 200ft/lbs of torque at the wheels and it felt extremely torquey, I suspect the new figure will be 250-270lb-ft at the wheels! Its going to feel like a god-damn viper in a tiny go-kart :wow Road racing should be amazing... I will probably find myself tooting around the track one gear higher than I really should, just due to the excess torque.
4) Reliability! That's the plan at least. This time it is a 100% OEM setup, and I am not worried about getting it tuned in well. In the past I have had great luck putting boost to OEM motors with a good tune, and I hope/expect this to be no different.

I'll keep everyone posted with how it goes. I'm hoping to get it out for at least a few weeks yet this year before it gets too cold.

[Haulin' Oates]

Sorry to hear about all your troubles Murray, I suspect an impressive rise from the ashes is about to occur though!

[spooln30]

Is Blueprint taking any of the blame for the last engines mishaps?

[WhatsADSM]

Is Blueprint taking any of the blame for the last engines mishaps?

They haven't said yet. They made me ship it back to them, but eventually after enough talking to them the sales guy (who doesn't actually call the shots) said if what I (and King Motorsports) are telling them is true then they will cover most of it. However once they got it they immediately told me they didn't have any time to tear it down and look and that there were other things that were of higher priority.

Honestly I have been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them fix things, but I am just getting sick of it. I am very close to calling my CC company about it. I'm gonna give them this week to at least start on it, but that's it.

[Reverend Cooper]

dont waste more time call your credit card co. and get the ball rolling once they find out your serious they may do something,if not at least you got your money back.

[WhatsADSM]

dont waste more time call your credit card co. and get the ball rolling once they find out your serious they may do something,if not at least you got your money back.

Yea I have been pretty nice thus far. I really don't want to be "that guy" and certainly didn't want to be quick to pull the trigger on charging anything back. I wanted to give them a chance to make it right, even though financially it is NOT a smart thing for me to do. As is I have paid $200 to have King document their findings, and $135 just to ship it to them. And now I am starting to get the run around now that it is there. I am going to call them tomorrow and see what they have done/will do for me, if I am unhappy at this point I have done all I can, I can't keep getting dicked around and throw good money after bad.

[Reverend Cooper]

sounds to me like you need to be that guy

[Irish]

Fuck 'em.

Get your money back. Then commence to flaming on them, on every board you can think of. Finally, call the bbb.

If they CHOOSE to be assholes about it and decide to not work with you, the gloves coming off would be completely appropriate.

[srt4eh]

wow....I hope they pull their heads out of their asses and that you get your money back so you can finish this project :)

[WhatsADSM]

Said they would look at it monday and let me know. So we will see.

[michelle]

Hope it all turns out how you want it to.

[Dr.Buick]

Hows the ASS FEEL! :wow Mine hurts

[jbiscuit]

I wouldn't play games with these guys. I would demand your money back or at least get your CC involved. You will save yourself the stress as well. The new setup should be fun though I liked your original plan of a high revving NA motor. Not sure what it is about NA hondas but they are a blast. If anything I woulda put individual throttle bodies on it and beat the hell out of it! :)

[FoxStang]

So, what'd they say?

:popcorn:popcorn

[WhatsADSM]

They eventually got back to me and didn't want to admit blame... which I expected.

They wanted roughly $600+ to put everything back together (getting a new used crank) and get it back to me. Mind you my initial bill with them was ~$1800, just to assemble a rotating assembly with all the parts already paid for and provided to them. Like put in rods/pistons/bearings and of course blueprint.
I basically told them I expected to get most of my money back since the problem was nothing I did and I'm already out tons of money and time. They offered to keep all of my parts and give me like $475 back for labor.

So... yea.

[noeggs4u]

What a bunch of bs.

[Bliz35]

Both cars look crazy! Love the Lotus for sure!

[WhatsADSM]

So as I eluded to the new setup is going to be a (essentially) bone stock 2006 Acura TSX engine with a bolt-on supercharger kit.

I picked up the motor from a local salvage yard and it has about 51k on it. Overall looks pretty clean, the worse part being that it looks like it was sitting for a year or so, and just needs some cleaning.

After about a month of waiting I finally got in the supercharger kit. Well most of it, I am still awaiting the blower pulley. However I did receive enough to do a test fit to see if/how much of the firewall I would need to modify to fit the supercharger in the engine bay. For now here are the pictures. Overall I am very happy. I knew it would be close and it fits but touches the carpet on the firewall. It looks like if I remove a little excess material from the supercharger inlet piece and play with the engine mounts a bit I should be able to get it to fit (just barely) without having to touch my firewall!

Once the test fit was complete I pulled the engine back out of the car and pulled the engine further apart so that I could install a new RSX oil pump and a baffled oil pan (of some sort). I got the oil pump in over the weekend along with some general clean up of the engine, however I am kind of stuck when it comes to the baffled pan. When I shipped my last engine back to Blueprint to have them look at it I shipped them my very nice aluminum RSX oil pan... And of course I never got that back. So I can either buy a used RSX oil pan along with the Blueprint baffle kit (which kind of sucks BTW), or I can buy this new trap door baffled (much nicer) pan from Moroso which literally JUST came out. I am going to do some calling around tomorrow to see if I can find someone with it in stock and if so I will go the Moroso route, otherwise I will have to use my existing cheapy baffle kit and buy a used RSX pan :(

On to the pics:
Pictures of the test fit. I will need to move a few things around and do some modifying, but all-in-all I am pretty happy.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/mpx_test1/IMAG0941.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/mpx_test1/IMAG0943.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/mpx_test1/IMAG0947.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/mpx_test1/IMAG0953.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/mpx_test1/IMAG0958.jpg

[Wagonbacker9]

Lookin good. love the mockup pulley!

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Agreed. Looks great Murray.

[PureSound15]

Any worry of the amount of heat between the roots style blower and it being sandwiched between the motor and the firewall?

Maybe meth might help?

[stealthy1ss]

If that mock up is the size of pulley your going to run it looks too big! :shades


Any worry of the amount of heat between the roots style blower and it being sandwiched between the motor and the firewall?

Maybe meth might help?

It should be okay since I am pretty sure he is going to run E85 and with the proper after cooler/ heat exchanger the heat shouldn't be a big issue.

[BlackLightning]

where can I get a whipple pulley like that? :thumbsup

Charles at magnum powers does good work. I wonder how that one will compare to the Lightning one which likes big boost before it outshines the ported eaton.

[michelle]

Adam's ready for another nap. I mean ride.

[WhatsADSM]

Any worry of the amount of heat between the roots style blower and it being sandwiched between the motor and the firewall?

Maybe meth might help?

Its going to be an E85 car so that should do anything meth would do and more.

I actually decided to just keep it simple and go without an aftercooler (I know). Plus with all the blowing up of shit and a kid on the way the money just isn't there to blow right now. I need to get the car done and finished ASAP without breaking the bank.

I am still a little worried about the heat but I think it should be okay and will play it by ear.


If that mock up is the size of pulley your going to run it looks too big! :shades

It should be okay since I am pretty sure he is going to run E85 and with the proper after cooler/ heat exchanger the heat shouldn't be a big issue.

Its actually bigger than the mock up pulley. The mockup is a 3.5" exactly... which is the pulley size, however the ridges on the side would add another 1/8" or so in terms of looks. Interestingly no aftercooler... Wish the funds/time was there for one, but oh well that's just the way it goes.

I expect somewhere around 12psi which isn't too much, certainly a lot for no cooling, but then again e85 should help dramatically there.


where can I get a whipple pulley like that? :thumbsup

Charles at magnum powers does good work. I wonder how that one will compare to the Lightning one which likes big boost before it outshines the ported eaton.

I can crank out those pulleys left and right... Maybe I can start a group buy. Sell it as a kit the WhatsADSM pulley and string... I mean super lightweight belt, kit ;)

Yea Charles has been really helpful thus far... And when he heard of the build and the packaging constraints he told me he would be willing to make a special spacer just for my kit in an attempt to help move it up and away from the firewall if need be.


Adam's ready for another nap. I mean ride.

He was the last person to get a ride in the thing fully functioning last time... I'm scared to give him another ride

[srt4eh]

looking good :)

[stealthy1ss]

I actually decided to just keep it simple and go without an aftercooler (I know). Plus with all the blowing up of shit and a kid on the way the money just isn't there to blow right now. I need to get the car done and finished ASAP without breaking the bank.

I have something that you might be able to use for an aftercooler if I change compressors. I will keep you informed.

[PureSound15]

Forgot about it being an e85 build, but I'd also hate to see all of that work become a bummer due to heat - sounds like you've got it covered!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigSnailBuick]

Damn that thing is going to fly! Looking good!

[WhatsADSM]

So as I said I would update this thread once I got my stuff up and going. This past week I spent a ton of time getting my car in a drivable state. I still have some body panels to install (gas filler, side scoops, diffuser, etc) but it is at least drivable. Also thanks to Dr. Buick for helping me finish up the exhaust tonight!

I was able to drive it around the area a bit including a decent freeway trip to Jim's. The cold 35-45 degree weather here in Wisconsin certainly helps but I must say the thing is pretty damn fast even with my rough road tune in it. This setup has a considerable amount more torque than the last naturally aspirated K24/20 I had in the car, and torque seems awfully flat and VERY predictable. If it wasn't for unbelievable whine coming from back there you would think it was a big v8!

Not sure of the exact numbers it makes, but I should be able to stop by the dyno some time this week and at least get some WOT tuning done on it. If I were to venture a guess I would guess its making somewhere around 350whp and maybe 260ish lb/ft of torque. If I could get there the Power/Weight and Torque/Weight would be somewhere between a C6 Z06 and ZR1! So my initial guesstimates that it would feel like a "Viper Go-Kart" are actually pretty accurate.

Don't have any cool videos of it yet. I'll try to get a coworker to take some video of it tomorrow at lunch. Here is a little teaser I have of the first day it was running.

cgcP7yjeXWs

That's it for now, I'll be sure to post back up once I have some "spirited" driving videos and/or a dyno sheet. ;)

[Wagonbacker9]

Awesome.... can't wait to see this thing out again... and not on the side of the road on my way home this time I hope.

[michelle]

Awesome.... can't wait to see this thing out again... and not on the side of the road on my way home this time I hope.

Agreed. Adam doesn't want to take another nap.

[Want_Notch]

Was that your Lotus going throught the business park in Mequon this morning?
If so it sounds nice!

[WhatsADSM]

Was that your Lotus going throught the business park in Mequon this morning?
If so it sounds nice!

HA... It most certainly was! I work at Rockwell Automation on Enterprise Drive there in the subdivision. I sometimes have a little fun coming around that corner just before I pull into the lot.

So what does the car sound like on the outside? From inside its mostly just supercharger at WOT. Just wondering if you hear more supercharger or more exhaust from the outside.

[Want_Notch]

I just heard exhaust. No S/C.
It is pretty loud. Good tone though.

What department do you work in? I work for a controls integrator. We use AB PLC's and drives all the time.

[juicedimpss]

oh snap!

nice to see its back together Murray!

[WhatsADSM]

I just heard exhaust. No S/C.
It is pretty loud. Good tone though.

What department do you work in? I work for a controls integrator. We use AB PLC's and drives all the time.

Interesting... the supercharger is LOUD from in the car. Too bad it can't be heard from outside :(

As for your job, very cool.Won't be surprised if we know some of the same people. I do firmware for motor drives in the Kinetix (motion) division for AB. If you have ever used a Kinetix 6200 or 6500 drive some of my stuff is in those :thumbsup

[WhatsADSM]

Some videos of the craziness. Granted its cold out... But this gives you an idea.

The car is a HANDFUL now and I haven't even fine tuned it in on the dyno. Honestly if it stays like this even in the warm weather in hindsight it might actually be *too* much power for its own good. My gut tells me though that the warm weather will help dramatically.

For all these videos I apologize in advance. The gauges aren't working well under WOT as there is an EMI issue or weak engine ground I believe that I need to track down.

This one is me accelerating from about 10 mph to about 90. Through first and second I just petalled it maybe 50% throttle or so. Third was rolled into but was 100% at the end, then when I shifted to 4th hard it started to spin and wheelhop at about 90 and I had to get out of it :(
XvShF9Xena4

This one is me going from about 50 to 110. Again the gauges are acting up a bit so aren't accurate. I eased into it in 3rd and then shifted a bit slower into 4th which helped.
ju13Qh1evlw

[Want_Notch]

We have used the 6000 series alot. Waiting for a customer to allow us to use the 6200 or 6500 series stuff.

I think I heard you leaving today too. From a distance you cannot hear the S/C at all. I am up Baehr Road Past the turn onto Executive Drive.

Congrats on getting it going. THats a badass ride!

Holy Crap that S/C is loud in the vid!

[Wagonbacker9]

HA... It most certainly was! I work at Rockwell Automation on Enterprise Drive there in the subdivision. I sometimes have a little fun coming around that corner just before I pull into the lot.

So what does the car sound like on the outside? From inside its mostly just supercharger at WOT. Just wondering if you hear more supercharger or more exhaust from the outside.

Stop by... I'll drive it so you can test-listen.

Actually, I'd even be willing to come to you..

[srt4eh]

badass Murray....I like :)

[stealthy1ss]

Somebody is going to need some r-comps or true slicks to keep this go-kart on the track this summer!

[WhatsADSM]

Was able to stop by the dyno and get the partial throttle stuff done quickly on a Viper so I was able to get mine up there for some quick tuning.

Unfortunately I only had time to really concentrate on the 30* high cam, which is where it likes to spend a lot of time. I have a feeling there is a bit more to be picked up with some cam tuning, and I *could* get more aggressive with the timing. But honestly given where it was at and given that it will spend lots of time being road raced for 20-25 minute sessions I like keeping the tunes away from the ragged edge.

Without further adu, here it is. Stock K24, MPx90 at ~12.5psi, No intercooling, No meth, E85.... and of course a *cough*real, no bull**** numbers*cough* Mustang dyno.

This is an overlay of my old N/A K24/20 setup and the new stock K24 + MPx90 setup. Yea there is a bit more area under that curve :)

N/A was SAE corrected 284.4whp/198.0lb-ft
SC was SAE corrected 343.7whp/242.6lb-ft

http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/dyno/resized/Dyno_overlay.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/dyno/resized/SC_K24_Coversheet.jpg

A bit more playing and I think I can get it right around, maybe even a bit over 350whp. I know there is more mid-range in it with some cam tuning. Overall though I am pretty happy with the numbers for such a simple setup.

Oh one thing to note. I did experience a problem with the belt. I suspected when I got the supercharger that the blower pulley was not aligned perfectly with the rest of the pulleys and it must not be. After all the dyno pulls it hurt itself and actually managed to move itself one rib off in the direction that it was misaligned. The belt eventually lost that rib. It is something that will HAVE to be addressed somehow. I'll have get in contact with MP and figure out how to proceed.

[Ricky Bobby]

looks like a fun little go-kart, squirrely little bugger i bet

[srt4eh]

Sick!!!!!!

[Crawlin]

I'm just more impressed with how close you actual guess was to these numbers, hahaha. 350/260 compared to the 344/243 haha

Awesome car and well deserving of all the work you put into it

[Waver]

I'm just more impressed with how close you actual guess was to these numbers, hahaha. 350/260 compared to the 344/243 haha

Awesome car and well deserving of all the work you put into it

Yeah no kidding. Huge difference in the numbers on what should be a more reliable setup.

[Reverend Cooper]

Uh I call driiving it. yours should be able to whoop the shit outta mine now

[DRK]

WOW! That will be a ton of fun at R.A, not so much slaying cones though

[WhatsADSM]

Uh I call driiving it. yours should be able to whoop the shit outta mine now

Ahh you got more mods coming anyways. I doubt mine will ever really have an advantage in a straight line.


WOW! That will be a ton of fun at R.A, not so much slaying cones though

Yea it should be a beast on nearly every road course. It will be nice to be able to hold my own in a Lotus on the straights, that's usually not the case.

It is definitely extremely predictable and the power delivery is very linear, the problem of course is that where stock you used to have to use the 100% throttle travel to get 200 horse you now only need like 30%, so it is a lot more touchy when trying to auto-x. Yea its going to be more difficult to pilot around cones than before, no doubt about that.

[Haulin' Oates]

So awesome man, I love it.

License; Butthead

haha

[WhatsADSM]

So, had an issue with the blower making noise which apparently was 2 things. A poorly cut pulley and a bracket that I had welded that cracked. I played around with the bracket and got a better solution for that, and also had Charles at MP cut me a new pulley.

Since everything was apart I decided to just go ahead and put in at least *some* form of an aftercooler. So it is just a "drop-in" core from MercRacing along with a heatexchanger from BOE fabrication, the latter designed for the Lotus. Neither of the pieces are ideal in terms of cooling however given the spacial constraints of my car I will just have to make due. Certainly better than nothing. And of course since the pulley was being recut, and it now had an intercooler Charles convinced me to run a smaller blower pulley - 3.25" pulley as opposed to the 3.5" I had on there before.

I buttoned everything up and took it to an auto-x with WAI over this past weekend. Had a great time and it was my first ever auto-x and first time really running this car up to (and beyond) its limits. Clearly the thing lacking the most was not the car but rather the nut behind the wheel ;) Honestly the car was better than expected. While it does have quite a bit of power it is EXTREMELY controllable. Feeling a little better about taking the car to a road course, but will probably take it to some more autocross as well to continue honing my slower speed and car control skills as well.

And finally yesterday I had a chance to take the car with me to the dyno. The car I was there to tune ended up having issues, and so I had a chance to throw mine back up on the rollers. Here are the results. The difference between this one and the last is the intercooler + about a pound and a half more. Pretty impressive. Makes me wish I would have went the cheap junkyard Honda K24 + blower route from the beginning! It has an absolutely BEAUTIFUL torque curve.
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/dyno/383_Coversheet.jpg
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/dyno/383_Graph.jpg

And now for a very cool overlay. This is my overlay of all my different K-series engine setups I have had in my car. These include:
1) (Current Setup) Stock K24A2, MPx90, ~14psi, Intercooled. E85. 383whp/278wtq
2) Stock K24A2, MPx90, 12.5psi, no cooling. E85. 342whp/243wtq
3) 12.5:1 built k24/20. (Lightly ported K20 head, upgraded valvetrain Kelford B cams, Sk2 intake manifold). 93 octane. 284whp/198wtq
http://www.murlynna.com/pics/Lotus/dyno/AllSetups_Overlay.jpg

[nismodave]

Congrats! Nice #s. Hope you dont have to pull THIS motor out for a long long time.

[WhatsADSM]

Hope you dont have to pull THIS motor out for a long long time.

Tell me about it!

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Sounds brutally awesome Murray.

[stealthy1ss]

Impressive Murray. You were right on with your estimation of the power. After I riding along with you through the cones I think you are ready to take this beast out on the track.

[SSDude]

Bad ass project Murray. Impressive numbers!

[Prince Valiant]

lol...I'll be happy if my truck puts down the "blue" numbers....that thing has got to be brutally fast.

Thought you were sticking to N/A? By the S/C choice I'm guessing you still wanted the N/A power delivery w/ boosted power :D

[jakedrew]

Very cool. Thanks for keeping the post updated.

[WhatsADSM]

lol...I'll be happy if my truck puts down the "blue" numbers....that thing has got to be brutally fast.

Thought you were sticking to N/A? By the S/C choice I'm guessing you still wanted the N/A power delivery w/ boosted power :D

Yea to be honest I actually really liked the naturally aspirated engine. It was a good amount of power and had some extra rpm (8400 versus 7600). Just that I had such bad luck with the various engine builders and it is more expensive to build per HP I just decided to get a stock TSX engine and just boost it. Ultimately I don't plan to really compete with the car in a specific class, as it is basically just a fun car, so it just made more sense to boost.

But yea my choice for supercharging versus turbo was the fact that like you said I want a linear torque curve along with instant response much more than just sheer power. So the roots blower made the most sense. While the old M90 may not be the most efficient, it gets the job done and the torque curve is unbelievable... Like you said basically has an NA response and power just with more oomph. Once we have a little BCM get together ill have to take you for a ride!

[Prince Valiant]

Once we have a little BCM get together ill have to take you for a ride!
Or just stick your shepherd in the passenger seat and ride on over...meg will watch the dogs while we ride :D

[srt4eh]

very nice...can't wait to see it in action

[Reverend Cooper]

looks awesome cant wait for a ride in it Murray!

[Josepy]

Awesome setup. Hope to see you next weekend.

[Cryptic]

Sounds sick. Cant wait to see this in person!