parking structure accident @ summerfest...

[0TransAm0]

huge piece of concret fell off the front injuring 2 people and killing 1 :stare
@ the Odonnell parking garage...

[animal]

Maybe we can get obama to ban parking structures :goof

I should edit and at least add that I've long been suspicious of parking structures' safety for this reason.

[michelle]

Wow, that's horrible.

[Yooformula]

very sad and tragic.

[Nix]

I like how EVERY news station is beating this story lile a dead horse. Just leave it be, you've already reported on it. Let the family greave...

[johnny--2k]

Just confirmed it was a child that was killed on the news... it's a big piece of concrete too. the entire section probably about 30-40 feet long and about 6 feet wide...

[TheRX7Project]

Just confirmed it was a child that was killed on the news... it's a big piece of concrete too. the entire section probably about 30-40 feet long and about 6 feet wide...

They were saying about 8-10" thick too... that's a giant ass piece of concrete. Terrible what happened, there was no warning or anything it just fell.

[GTSLOW]

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/06/21/daily51.html

WOW

[Karps TA]

I'm guessing since this garage is maintained by the city that budget cuts are going to end up being the culprit. I expect more and more stuff like this since maintenance seems to be the first thing they cut always.

[Larrygto]

I'll bet it was loose and one of those car's above hit the wall while parking and knock it off.

[Lash]

Those are veneer panels. They get installed on building that I work on all the time. The are held on by steel angle clips and welded and/or bolted to steel imbeads in the concrete behind it. When I first saw it my first though was that a car on the second floor pulled into a parking spot too quick and hit it.

Seeing how concrete weighs roughly 145 lbs. per cubic foot (even though the veneer type is a lighter concrete) it's possible that the 35'x10"x6' slab was around 24,000 pounds.

[Car Guy]

My guess is metal securing this piece to the structure rusted and failed.....



I like how EVERY news station is beating this story lile a dead horse.

The first 7 minutes of channel 6's (Fox) newscast was about this incident.....:rolleyes:

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

I found out shortly after it happened that my wife parks in that garage every day and she left 15 minutes before the incident happened.

[lordairgtar]

I'm guessing since this garage is maintained by the city that budget cuts are going to end up being the culprit. I expect more and more stuff like this since maintenance seems to be the first thing they cut always.
I believe it is county owned.

[0TransAm0]

they were also talking about a earthquake that happened in canada yesterday that was felt in milwaukee.. and i bet somehow it gets blamed on that.
i also thought the possability of a car hitting it while parking on the upper level.

how much you wanna bet they try and sue the city over it.

and yes i do think it is sad and tragic.. just a case of wrong place wrong time. and no warning.

[Al]

This only adds to my lack of faith in local construction.

In the winter of 08-09, I saw the wall that used to be here a few hours after it collapsed. Apparently, this is the shaft used to get snow from the roof to the ground.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.037529,-87.906225&spn=0,0.010031&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.037522,-87.906361&panoid=HoGohNGPPLXdpB5lEP6M5w&cbp=12,36.53,,0,-1.45

[Lash]

This only adds to my lack of faith in local construction.




It has nothing to do with 'local' construction.
Things are built from the engineers construction spec. These engineers are from all over the country. Even if something in the plans/specs isn't the best way to do something, it's either the engineers way or the highway. It's a daily battle on any construction site. Sometimes all you can do is shrug your shoulders and say "Fine. If thats the way you want it, I guess we'll do it."

[Yooformula]

how much you wanna bet they try and sue the city over it.

confused. why wouldnt they sue the city over this? if its maintained by the city and built by the city and it failed killing someone, I would think in the LEAST the city should be held liable.

[Al]

It has nothing to do with 'local' construction.
Things are built from the engineers construction spec. These engineers are from all over the country. Even if something in the plans/specs isn't the best way to do something, it's either the engineers way or the highway. It's a daily battle on any construction site. Sometimes all you can do is shrug your shoulders and say "Fine. If thats the way you want it, I guess we'll do it."

I understand that.

Fact is, I have seen concrete fail (to be specific, those little metal anchor brackets) on more than one occasion.

[Lash]

Fact is, I have seen concrete fail (to be specific, those little metal anchor brackets) on more than one occasion.

No doubt!

It's a big revolving door. If the engineer A designs it for 316SS rods/clips with an epoxy anchoring system or S.S. imbeds and engineer B designs it for mild carbon steel rod/clips/imbeds the customer usually say "The engineering estimate for design A was more $ for the same look so we went with design B." So what if it falls apart. They saved 1.5% building the place! :rolleyes:

[Al]

No doubt!

It's a big revolving door. If the engineer A designs it for 316SS rods/clips with an epoxy anchoring system or S.S. imbeds and engineer B designs it for mild carbon steel rod/clips/imbeds the customer usually say "The engineering estimate for design A was more $ for the same look so we went with design B." So what if it falls apart. They saved 1.5% building the place! :rolleyes:

I bet more like 0.15%.

Same thing goes when building a house: Fewer screws can be used and $ can be saved. Besides, who knows when the next tornado will rip through town and even if the house gets leveled, who will be there to check the # of screws?

[turbogarrett]

It's all about the benjamins these days, it will be interesting to see what fails in the future that is being built right now. I believe that structure was built in better economic times, imagine the shortcuts on the few jobs you see around town today:stare If you "win" a big contract right now you may have missed something on the plans.

Sad story, I doubt whomever is ultimately responsible for this will be held accountable, whether it be shitty engineering, installation or material.

[flyin_blue_egg]

I'm guessing since this garage is maintained by the city that budget cuts are going to end up being the culprit. I expect more and more stuff like this since maintenance seems to be the first thing they cut always.

wrong. it's owned by the county.

[flyin_blue_egg]

Those are veneer panels. They get installed on building that I work on all the time. The are held on by steel angle clips and welded and/or bolted to steel imbeads in the concrete behind it. When I first saw it my first though was that a car on the second floor pulled into a parking spot too quick and hit it.

Seeing how concrete weighs roughly 145 lbs. per cubic foot (even though the veneer type is a lighter concrete) it's possible that the 35'x10"x6' slab was around 24,000 pounds.


i work at the jail and one of the capts. told us that it weighed almost 31,000 lbs.

[flyin_blue_egg]

they were also talking about a earthquake that happened in canada yesterday that was felt in milwaukee.. and i bet somehow it gets blamed on that.
i also thought the possability of a car hitting it while parking on the upper level.

how much you wanna bet they try and sue the city over it.

and yes i do think it is sad and tragic.. just a case of wrong place wrong time. and no warning.


what you mean how much you wanna bet they try and sue the city?? (even though it'd be the county they'd sue as the county owns it)

you're damn right the childs family should sue the county, and they deserve every $ of the millions they get. the families of the two injured should also sue. i've heard from a lot of people that this place was plagued w/ problems since the day it opened in 92.

[Lash]

i work at the jail and one of the capts. told us that it weighed almost 31,000 lbs.

The news is reporting it as 27,000. There was probably no real way to tell until the crane picked it up (they have weight indicator on the controls). Either way.... thats heavy as fuk.

[flyin_blue_egg]

The news is reporting it as 27,000. There was probably no real way to tell until the crane picked it up (they have weight indicator on the controls). Either way.... thats heavy as fuk.


31,000 or 27,000 at that those weights it really doesn't matter does it??? either way you're fvcked

[Voodoo Chick]

I feel so bad for the person that got killed, what a HORRIBLE way to die....and for the witnesses.......omfg, how awful to see it happen.....

[Arigmaster]

Why would anyone use 30' long and 27,000 lb. pieces of Concrete for Aesthetics? Then merely bolt them to concrete pillars and decking. The structure it's self had issues with load capacity when it was first built. Under-sized pillars for capacity and the decking was cracking under the pressure of the dirt, flat work and planters in the park on the top.

Granted there were corrections made to the pillars and decking before the structure was opened but no one paid much attention to the rest of the design at that time. Common sense should tell you that if there were flaws in the rest of the design... There will be other ones too. How many times was that piece bumped by a car parking? How many times was it struck by taller vehicles entering the structure? Then add the effects of vibration from nearby construction, traffic in and around the structure...

Oh, let's not forget that the mounting plates and seams were covered with mortar and then caulked with flexible construction filler. (That should hide any indications of cracking or separation) Here in Wisconsin we use salt in the winter. Salt and variable weather make steel rust. Concrete is porous, especially the "light weight" mix used for these pieces. (They use fired clay as opposed to stone) and the nice mist of salty water seeps in and will rust the reinforcement... (rust will separate welds) Just look at older bridges in the area where normal concrete is used... You can see rust seeping out of every crack.

It's like hanging a sofa size painting with a thumb tack. I'm sorry for the rant, but just because I don't have a piece of paper saying XYZ school of engineering doesn't mean I am incapable of figuring this out. So... As a result of some guy drawing a pretty picture and another guy who had a piece of paper saying he was smart... Common sense went out the window.

I am sure there is going to be plenty of finger pointing next but that is not going to change the events of that day or bring back the child who went for a day of fun with their family only to have it end so abruptly.

In a nut shell, The design was flawed from the beginning. Although the product (Spancrete I think) is used in many other applications, I do not feel that this is a correct one.

[GRM-REPR]

I like how EVERY news station is beating this story lile a dead horse. Just leave it be, you've already reported on it. Let the family greave...

X a million.......

[flyin_blue_egg]

you know what kinda sucks for the family of the child that died, they'll prob. get less $$ then the family of the two that got hurt. mostly due to the fact that wasn't one of the people that got hurt but survived a parent?? my mom and i were talking about this and she said that since one of the people that got hurt has a job and has children to support that the payout will include lost wages, and hospital bills.

[GTSLOW]

Law suit on the way.