Guteman vs Milwaukee Police Department

[Guteman]

To brewcity. I know some of you guys are police officers or have links with the police department. Please chime in on your opinion about this situation. Am I really this terrible of a person? This all went down on the intersection of Farwell and North Ave. And the police thought THIS was more important at 1AM? Read below.

Menace to Society? Milwaukee thinks so. It's been a very long time since I had been disrespected and treated like a child by a police officer, WITHOUT REASON. I may have been a speed demon when I was younger, why am I still being punished? It's been well over two years since I had been pulled over by a cop and received a citation. I am a young, mature 23 year old young professional with a ton of hobbies. One of my hobbies being cars. Any car hobbyist will have a thing or two that "bends and breaks" the law, its part of our culture. It's not really a big deal, or so I thought. So, Thursday night of May 27, 2010 I decided to bring my Saab out for a drink at Hooligans after a relaxing stint at the driving range. Had a good time, shared some laughs. On my way home, driving slowly with my windows half down minding my own business...not even a tenth of a mile past Hooligans I got pulled over by one of the most interesting police officer I've met. To protect his privacy, I will refer to this person as Dick, because that's a legitimate name in many ways. Dick may have seen me exiting the bar, so hey, I just figured he was just going to ensure it was safe enough for me to drive. It's happened to me before. Respectable and not a big deal....nope, he thought there were MUCH worse things wrong with my vehicle than the possibility that I may have been drunk driving. Shame on me.

Alright, been pulled over a number of times, I know the drill. Get the car to the side of the road, hazards on, roll down all the windows so the officer feels safe approaching the vehicle. Done, done and done. I had one Guinness all night, not even worried about any sort of sobriety test, been there done that too. Dick gets out of the car, screams at me...

DISCLAIMER: I cant remember exactly what Dick was saying so don't take me word for word, but this is exactly what went down.

Dick - "SHUT THE VEHICLE OFF." Walks to the car, "I pulled you over for illegal window tint, license please."

I give him my license, happily but confused saying to myself.. Really? You pulled me over for illegal tint? Alright I'll play along. Dick sits down in his car, gets back out 2 minutes later...

Dick - "Did you know that these windows are illegal?"

Me - "Yessir. I'm sorry, they have been on this car since before I owned it."

True statement right there.

Dick - "I looked at your driving record, seems you really like to speed in this car. It also appears you have a defective speedometer, did you ever get that fixed?"

Me - "Speedo is good sir."

To myself, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I was beginning to get upset because I haven't been pulled over in quite some time and only twice in this car, but one was a WARNING and the other was me being stupid on an on-ramp over THREE years ago.

Dick - "It also appears that the plates on this vehicle do not match the vehicle."

Me - "WHAT? You're kidding me, right?"

Dick - "No. Step out of the vehicle, right now. You and your passenger. Let me have your ID passenger."

The second I stepped out I remembered I have my vehicle registration/proof of insurance right in my drivers side door. Did Dick want to see it? NOPE. Apparently my name, my license plate number,my insurance card, and my vehicle registration card was not sufficient enough to show Dick I do in-fact own this vehicle, according to my records. RED FLAG, this guy is lying. By now another cop shows up, a much nicer police officer, I was relieved. My record was 5 police cars, unfortunately did not get that intense tonight. They SIT US DOWN on the curb, like criminals, and ask for permission to search the vehicle. I couldn't help laughing. All that's in this car was two sets of golf clubs, and 2 seats, THAT'S IT. Literally. Everything from the front seats back is completely gutted.

Paul - "Search away officer, you wont find anything, literally."

Go right ahead Dick, if you find extra weight please be sure to let me know! It'll be removed by tomorrow.

Officer Nicer - "Does this make your vehicle faster?"

Me - "Makes it lighter. Work in progress, sir."

Officer Nicer - "Wheres the radio!?"

Me - "Its not there right now, sir."

Officer Nicer - "Oh come on, you need a radio."

I chuckled a little.

Dick walks around the vehicle...

Dick - "So, it appears all your windows are tinted illegally. What I am going to do for you tonight is I am going to write you a ticket for EACH ILLEGALLY TINTED WINDOW."

Is this even legal? I mean, if you get an exhaust ticket and you have a dual exhaust, does that mean you get two tickets? Do you get a ticket for each tail light bulb out? Apparently you do! Its so logical....???

Dick goes to the first window... "16%."
Dick goes to the second window... "16%."
Dick goes to the third window... "16%."

I'm sensing a pattern here...

Dick goes to the 4th window... oh hai... "16%."

For those keeping score at home, that's 4 tickets for the same violation.

Dick walks to the front of the car...

Dick - "Oh, it appears you don't have a license plate on your vehicle, I will being giving you a ticket for that, too."

Ding ding ding, we now are at 5 tickets. At this point I was ready to point out another 5 ticket worthy violations to go for some kind of record but I kept my mouth shut. Mind you, my rear window is tinted darker than the sides AND my front window has a tinted strip over the top. I thought I had 6 tint tickets coming. Those windows were not a security threat to Dick.

Me - "So what about this problem with my vehicle not matching my plates?"

That was way more important to me because this could end up in getting my car towed where the possibility that things will be stolen or screwed with are almost a guarantee. There's a ton of money put into this car.

Nicer Officer - "Oh that was a mistake, your plates check out fine."

RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. I'm not buying that for one second. They just wanted in my vehicle. Something was beginning to get very sketchy about this whole experience. I'm furious by now and just in shock. I couldn't speak I was so furious because it took every ounce of energy not to just snap. My passenger, Andy, was being observant though. He noticed that a vehicle parked right across the street did not have a front plate, THAT CRIMINAL. I can point out every three vehicles with at least 1 violation on their car. Every car in Milwaukee has some kind of violation thats along the lines of mine. Swedish is being singled out, perhaps because its a nice looking car? I think so :) We were allowed back in the vehicle, poor swedish, it has just been violated. Andy and I were stuck in one of those moments where there was very little say except "Fucking unbelievable." You know what I'm talking about people. Driver pissed off. Passenger afraid to say something. I'm still in shock thinking this is some kind of joke. Nope, 10 minutes later, Dick walks to my car bearing the ancient scrolls of Egypt, oh wait, never mind, that's my 5 tickets! A 5 foot long paper full of expenses and citations!

Me - "Thank you, sir."

I say thank you, every time I get pulled over. Dick was not very receiving of the thank you, hater. After cooling off. This brings me to a fundamental question, was I really doing anything wrong? I didn't accelerate quickly, rev my engine, or do anything to get attention directed towards me. Did this officer really have a GOOD reason to pull me over and grill me like this? I'm thinking NO. If I had done a smoky burnout right on North Ave I would happily take these tickets with a smile and then some. This is a totally different situation to me. I'm thinking of putting a lot of effort towards "sticking it to the man" to show this guy he was out of line. Writing me multiple tint tickets and a no front plate ticket is borderline unethical. I understand the issue behind window tinting and why its considered "illegal," and that is why I put all my windows down so the officer can get a great look into the car before approaching. As a matter of fact I was complimented for doing that by the first officer who pulled me over and gave me a warning in BROOKFIELD. The fact alone I got this grilling in downtown Milwaukee is a shock in itself. You really think theres nothing better to-do in Milwaukee but to spend 45 minutes looking over a car piloted by a stand up guy that didn't deserve this? I rarely drive the Saab, but when I do, it is seen by NUMEROUS cops and they don't even look twice. I'm talking cruising highway 100, going through Brookfield, past troopers, parked in Waukesha... Why was I singled out in Milwaukee? Am I completely in the wrong? If so, please educate me. If not, whats your opinion on this whole issue?

I'm not posting this note purely out of spite to share with everyone, but to have notes for when the court date rolls around. I'm not stupid, the cops write notes after they write tickets, so will I. Only I will be sharing my notes with everyone, thank you social networking. Has anyone experienced something along the lines of this? Feel free to post along side this note.

[British_Ben]

I have been pulled over MANY times for speeding and various other violations. I've never been treated like that, however. I had illegal tint on my Sonoma when I had it and never got bothered for it.

Honestly sounds like the cop was having a bad night. Doesn't give him the right to ruin your night, but he is human. He was pretty out of control so you could go to the cop shop and talk to his boss. Also, when you go to court, it is likely that you'll be sided with on the multiple tickets for the same violation and have all but one dropped. I've never heard of someone getting a tint ticket for each tinted window.

[michelle]

I didn't think you could get pulled over for window tint as the reason.

When I was pulled over in Elm Grove by a not-so-nice officer (coincidentally, he is the one that got hit by the train a year ago), he told me he was pulling me over for having strings hanging from my rear-view mirror and then said while he had me pulled over, he would check my window tint. What's legal - 35%? I think mine is 30% all the way around, so not that much different, but it does look darker on a black car.

But maybe they changed something, since that was many years ago. I simply got a letter from my eye doctor stating I have sensitive eyes and that before I sell this vehicle, I will remove the window tint. Took it to the Elm Grove police department and they took care of the ticket. The officer came out and checked the car and said he wouldn't give a ticket for window tint being so close to legal (although in the front it's 50% right?).

Doesn't seem like a good situation for you, but hopefully you can stand in front of a good judge and explain the situation rationally. Or grab the lawyer that's recommended here.

[Silver350]

I agree. Go to the PD and file a complaint against the officer also have your friend to go with you as a witness to the event. Once that is done I would find out how to speak to the DA about the citations.

[Russ Jerome]

I know both Milw city police and Milwaukee county sherrifs personely as ex and present neigbors, they would laugh and say the employee fields qualifications have dropped to stupid levels in last few yrs. Like me being a mechanic, we have more retarded people today in this field than qualified techs who actual "repair" vehicles not just "swap parts".

Bad day for the guy who grew up being picked on in school, pulled your record and it was game on, 1978 all over again but he is pulling your hair now.

[Neal Steffek]

Pics of car with tint?

[Moparjim]

That does seem pretty extreme. On the upside, in Milwaukee especially they will most likely drop every single one of those tickets if you rip the tint off and either leave it off or get legal limit tint and put the plate on and have an officer look at it.

You should rip the tint off anyways, ever since they changed the law a couple of years ago they can and will pull people over for it. I got pulled over 3 times in my Caddy (PROFILED!) before I finally just removed it since its not worth the hassle. My Caddy tint was not even that dark - somehwere between the old limit and the new limit I want to say like 25-30% or something. I even got pulled over on the expressway one time - the officer apparently saw my "dark" tint as I drove past at 55 MPH....

[Lash]

I've had illegal tint on every car since I was 16 and have never been pulled over or ticketed for it. *shrug*

[Yooformula]

they cant possibly give him a legitimate ticket for EACH window can they? arent the rear sides allowed to be tinted as dark as you want?

[Rocket Power]

He may have been a jag, but you knowingly have illegal tint and no front plate. I find it hard to feel sorry for people who get tickets for things they know aren't legal on their car.

[Feature Pony]

you can't give 4 or 5 tickets for each window that is harrassment and I would call the LT at district 5 and file a complaint and if that doesn't go any where I would then go to the captain!

[DRK]

For every good cop there are 10 psychos.

[Prince Valiant]

For every good cop there are 10 psychos.:rolf It's funny cause you think it's true.

[PureSound15]

I think this changed a year or 2 ago for the worse. I think the new law does allow for a ticket for each window, and points too?

I believe it was the same time as some kind of change to the front plate tickets

[WickedSix]

50% front side(35% with cotors note) 35% rear and rear side windows

and it states cops should give +/-3%

http://home.pcisys.net/~bpc/auto_law/tint/tint_wi.html

[Z28Envy]

Though the guy may have been a dick, You're mad because you drive your car illegally and know it then when you get pulled over and cited for it, it's a big deal? You're right in the fact that they wanted into the car and you made it easy for him. If you didn't want to be violated then you shouldn't have given consent. Pretty sure no lisence plate an illegal window tint doesn't make it ok to search but could be wrong.

I drive my car without a front plate and I'm pretty sure the tint is illegal but I understand that I may get pulled over for it and have many times for no front plate. It's just part of not obeying the law.

[Sprayaway Fox]

I have been hit like that too. Like you said be nice and polite cause it pisses them off more. I would of gotten a badge number but it should be on your ticket.

Theres no worse feeling then getting your car ripped apart on the side of the road because "they think"....Man soo many times for me in these situations. One reason why I dont drive my junk anymore.

[Guteman]

I hear all of you about the tint. I've had the tint on this on the car ever since I became owner of it. Of course I knew the tint was considered illegal. I had intentions of removing it when I first got the car, but I grew to like it. The whole events that went down I feel was worthy to share with other people. I have absolutely no idea why I got treated this way, wrong place wrong time wrong cop I'm thinking.

@Z28Envy: Quite the opposite. I'm not stomping around pissed off because I got tint tickets. Look @ your Comaro. No front plate, you criminal! We're all guilty here of something, but who stoops this low these days in downtown Milwaukee at peak drunk driving hours?

@MoparJim: Although I spent over 3 years driving around with this tint, I feel I must consider taking it off. I rarely drive the car, but when I do its around a lot of cops cruising around, going to events, and just generally hanging out with car friends.

@Rocket Power: Are you the guy who will count strokes for taking a mulligan on the golf course? Or maybe give you the two stroke penalty for not finish up the 2 inch putt? I feel sorry for you, sir. Just look around for a moment and take note of all the cars without a front plate or cars with window tinting or even a loud exhaust. We're all getting away with something.

@Lash: Your time will come, I just hope the delivery will be less of what I experienced.

Also on a side note, yes its points for front window tinting only. Its two points for the two front windows but zero points for the rear. When did this happen?

Here's a decent picture of the car during the day. Granted its way darker at night, but I always roll with at least my window down at night, always.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z172/Guteman/rimsInstalled1.jpg

[Guteman]

Heres another pic at its worst. Closed windows, not direct sunlight, closed moonroof. I think I even adjusted the contrast with photoshop to make this photo look better.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z172/Guteman/P6300040.jpg

[Guteman]

you can't give 4 or 5 tickets for each window that is harrassment and I would call the LT at district 5 and file a complaint and if that doesn't go any where I would then go to the captain!

Any advice for how I can find this information to make a phone call?

[u_say_go]

why do people continue to complain about getting tickets for window tint when they KNOW you can't have them?

[Prince Valiant]

Okay, please stop crying....yeah, the "Man" just wants to bring you down. Poor you. You're just so innocent. They're just haterz, They jus b hatyn'

Oh, but everyone does it, blah blah blah. Cops came out with an elaborate story just to bring you down, blah blah blah.

So mad you couldn't speak? Poor thing :rolleyes:

I've got 20% tint on my windows. I'm fully aware that I could easily get pulled over for it, fully prepared to get a ticket for it. It won't be a surprise if it happens, you won't see me cryin' on the internet about harrassment and that I'll take it to the supreme court, etc.

I mean, I don't disagree that it's a dumb law...I know the justification for the law, and I disagree with it, since I'm not even required to have a rear window, etc. Just make the guys put their windows all the way down, interior lights on, both hands on the steering wheel (and passengers need to have hands on the dash, rear seat passengers heads on the headrest in front of them), and don't preemptively get your license or other info...you simply wait for the police officer to ask for it, and as you get it, you tell them what you're reaching for (ie, "I'm reaching in my front pocket for my license", etc). You do all that, comply without trying to be a roadside lawyer, and yes, you'll probably still get a ticket, or they may just look the other way. Who knows? But if you are indeed breaking the law, be prepared to pay a price.

[Rocket Power]

why do people continue to complain about getting tickets for window tint when they KNOW you can't have them?

:thumbsup

[Guteman]

why do people continue to complain about getting tickets for window tint when they KNOW you can't have them?

Don't cha think this is a bit shallow of a comment?

[Lash]

Don't cha think this is a bit shallow of a comment?

Not really. I'm sure most people will agree with him.

[TURTLE]

i don't think it's the tickets he's complaining about, moreso the manner as to which the stop was conducted...

i've gotten tint tickets in the past, i'm not complaining about that, but i complain about a few other of the ways the officer in both my case, and paul's case handled the situation...

paul, i'd try to talk to a supervisor and explain the situation and you're stand on how things happened, not the tickets issued... the guy was trying to prove a point and not doing it the correct way...

[BoosTT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8

[BoosTT]

^^^ They like that when they pull you over

[Gregor]

I was thinking more like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8

[GTSLOW]

Is this even legal? I mean, if you get an exhaust ticket and you have a dual exhaust, does that mean you get two tickets? Do you get a ticket for each tail light bulb out? Apparently you do! Its so logical....???

That right there was funny shit. :rolf

[Slow Joe]

I remember getting pulled over with my 01 Stang for tint. I only got one ticket for tint and had to re-tint 4 windows.

That's weird how that stop was conducted...

Oh btw, your 9k is lookin nice!

[Russ Jerome]

i don't think it's the tickets he's complaining about, moreso the manner as to which the stop was conducted...

...

Thats what I read into the original post as well, ticket me fine but move on and catch the guy robbing my garage down the street please ,dont waste both our times.

[PB86MCSS]

He may have been a jag, but you knowingly have illegal tint and no front plate. I find it hard to feel sorry for people who get tickets for things they know aren't legal on their car.

Yup. I don't run a front plate on a couple vehicles but think the one car with tint is in the clear legally. I also realize I might get pulled over for this and won't bitch about it when it happens.

Try not to play the "everyone is doing something wrong" game to justify anything. Do you have a long driving record or other? That certainly won't help you avoid any future tickets. I've had an instance or two with a jerk cop (most times they have been nice) but I think more times than not when a driver complains he/she is probably in the wrong. Hopefully you didn't show any attitude when being pulled over...another reason for them to ticket the shit out of you :goof . Theres always two sides to the story....if you really think he was out of line, file a complaint with their department.

[theavenger333]

you're going to have to go to court at the very least. the citations will have the officer's badge number on it. when you call the MPD line, tell them where it happened, they're transfer you to the proper district. i can't remember which district that is. 3? ask to speak with the LT.

[Z28Envy]

I got pulled over tonight again. State Tropper was here in town and pulled me over. Got another warning for no front plate(3rd one so far), tint on front window is 1.5 inches below the "A" lines and he lectured me on how my empty nitrous bottle between the back seat can be issued as an open bottle ticket if it was full or he felt like writing it. I told him I would be happy to open the value so he could see it was empty and he said that he couldn't be sure it was the only valve on the bottle. LOL I was prepared for a ticket if I got one. I know it's a risk every time I'm out in my car.

[Guteman]

@Boost: I was thinking along the lines of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI

@GTSlow: We got more analogies. Best one so far is squealing tires tickets. If your FWD/RWD, two tickets for you. If your a Evo or STi, four to you good sir! Heaven forbid if the big rig breaks them loose.

@SlowJoe: I hope I never get another run-in like this. I think I'll be removing the tint and putting legitimate tint on it eventually. I rarely drive the car, so its hard for me to justify doing this even after this incident.

@PB86: I am pitching the both sides are wrong point. As for my record. My driving record has been clean for over two years. The total number of tickets on my record are 5, all when I was still in my teens. 2 of those 5 were reduced to defective speedo. 2 others were reduced to < 10 over. And the other I just paid bc it was 11 over. I understand your thinking about attitude, but I honestly did not give this cop any attitude. The second he stepped out of his car he was yelling. I've been in situations where the cop started nice then based on my reactions things escalated. In this case, I didn't have a chance because it was already bad from the get go so I (thankfully) avoided escalating an already bad situation.

@Turtle & RussJerome: THANK YOU. This is exactly what I'm getting at here.

@theAvenger: District 5 will be hearing from me early next week :)

@Z28Envy: I hate you, lol. You do help restore my confidence that I likely will not be pulled over for these matters in the near future.

Again, I get the whole "you broke the law cry baby" replies. Thats your opinion, wonderful. But honestly, would you enforce this "law" especially when a good majority of cars around you don't run front plates? Just observe sometime. Tinted windows are a better argument in this case as I was in Milwaukee where approaching a tinted vehicle is dangerous, but would you really write a ticket per illegally tinted window? Again, my windows were DOWN throughout this whole experience till I was told to roll them up for the tester.

[buttersgt350]

i have a f150 and i got the front windows tinted 20%. after driving for 2 years i got pulled over in brookfield. i thought it was cause i didnt have a front plate but it was the tint. i was also surprised it was a 2 point ticket. they dont even have a fix it ticket if you scrape it off. but it was only 1 ticket for 2 infractions. seems like you got a cop on a bad night.

[Reverend Cooper]

you can't give 4 or 5 tickets for each window that is harrassment and I would call the LT at district 5 and file a complaint and if that doesn't go any where I would then go to the captain!
ya at any time i feel harrased on a stop i tell the officer iwant to see his supervisor by law they have to oblige if they dont you will win in court every time. It also usually calms then down too

[Mr Twigbert]

Ok.. Where do I start..

1) Thanks for the good read.. I laughed several times..

2) Thanks for not bashing 'Dick' too much..

3) Yes, you can get stopped for what 'appeares' to be illegal window tint AND you can receive a citation for each window.. I do it for certain people in a certain area which I work..


See below:

Trans 305.32(4)(b)2. http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Administrative%20Code%20Related/code/img/pdf%20icon (http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans305.pdf)
2. The vent and front side windows are tinted by the application of tinting film to the inside of the glazing provided that the combination of the glazing and tinting film permits passage through the windows of at least 50% of the visible light striking the windows. Tinting films permitted under this subdivision may not be reflective.


Trans 305.32(5)(b)2. http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Administrative%20Code%20Related/code/img/pdf%20icon (http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans305.pdf)
2. The rear window is tinted by the application of tinting film to the inside of the glazing provided that the combination of the glazing and tinting film permits passage through the window of at least 35% of the visible light striking the window. The tinting films permitted under this subdivision may not be reflective.

Trans 305.32(6)(b) http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Administrative%20Code%20Related/code/img/pdf%20icon (http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans305.pdf)
(b) The rear side windows are tinted by the application of tinting film to the inside of the glazing provided that the combination of the glazing and tinting film permits passage through the windows of at least 35% of the visible light striking the window. The tinting films permitted under this subdivision may not be reflective.

Trans 305.34(6)(c) http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Administrative%20Code%20Related/code/img/pdf%20icon (http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans305.pdf)
(c) Application of windshield window tinting film or other nontransparent material to the inside of the windshield if it is attached only to that portion of the windshield which is both outside the critical area and above the horizontal line delineated by the mark "A" or "A." If no such mark was affixed to the windshield by its manufacturer, no window tinting film may be attached to the windshield.



As you can see, each has it's own Trans 305 (state statute) number.. Thus, EACH window in violation can be issued a ticket..



4) The no front plate is a citation.. You can be issued this citation.. It is a Fix-it-ticket and you have 10 days to get it put on and taken to any District and the citation will be released.

And I know while this ticket is being written you see 10 other cars around you that have the violation.. But keep in mind, the cop can only write one at a time.. I truly hate when I stop someone for window tint, loud music, ect, ect, ect and the person bring up, "What about that person?" I simply reply, "I can only get one at a time sir.. He might be the next one.."

5) You got fucked.. Sorry, but it happens..

Moral of my post is............. You held your temper and did good.. I'm proud of you.. When I get attitude, I issue tickets.. I may have stopped a person for speeding and KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO WRITE A TICKET.. Why stop them then you ask? Because the stop is recorded on the computer and supervisors can see this and they associate the stop with 'activity'. Even though the stop was created with no activaty (ticket) intended.. But when the driver starts with the, "I wasn't speeding and you must be wrong. Your only doing this because you have a quota." That right there is a "Your getting a ticket for failure to recognize you stupid &$^$&^ ((&(&&^#$(^("...

I appreciate you not bashing all cops because you had one back experience.. I won't guess why he/she acted this way.. But I will say there are good cops (me) and bad ones.. A good one usually has several years experience and can detect a 'good, tax paying citizen'.. A bad one can't.. You got a bad one.. But, keep in mind that with only a few years of the job he may evolve into a good one.. Time will tell..

Get the fix-it-ticket taken care of.. Then go to the court date on the rest of the tickets.. From experience, the City Attorney will release all but 1.. You will get stuck with the $88.80 ticket but then again you did have illegal window tint.. Chock it up as a learning experience..

Someone above posted you should go see his/her supervisor.. And you can.. But nothing will happen.. NOT because WE COVER STUFF UP.. But because what you described did not violate any rule or procedure from what I can tell.. He didn't beat you, he didn't call you names, he didn't take you in an alley and do god knows what.. He simply fucked you.. And fucking you is not a violation of our SOP.. He didn't leave you with a good feeling about the stop but that could be because a number of reasons.. He was having a bad night.. He's newer and hasn't reached that 'good cop' level.. He's just abrasive.. But if there was no rule violation then there is nothing the supervisor can do.. People bitch about me all the time.. I'm sure I left a few people with negative feelings about my stops.. But never once have I been talked to because I don't violate SOP.. It's WAY common for people to bitch when they receive tickets.. But yes, I do acknowledge that you got fucked..

[Mr Twigbert]

From reading the above posts I thought I would clarify some things:

1) The cop can't search your car because of no front plate or illegal window tint.. He can however ask for consent... Which you gave..

A cop may search a car if:

- Consent
- Arrest and the cop has reason to believe there will be additional evidence from which the arrest was made. Example: Robbery suspect where they just used a firearm.. The arrest is for the robbery and the search is to recover additional evidence (fireame). Or drunk driving. We can search the vehicle because the arrest was from the OWI and the vehicle may contain additional evidence (intoxicants) which caused the person to be come intoxicated..
- Probable cause. The smell of marijuana is probable cause to search the vehicle to recover the narcotic..
- Inventroy search.. If we tow a vehicle we can search it for valuables to be placed on inventory..

The recent GANT RULING changed search incident to arrest.. We used to be able to search a vehicle ever time someone was arrested.. We no longer can unless the above..




It's not harrasment to receive multiple tickets.. No where in state statute does it say a person can receive only X number of tickets.. Nor does it say officers have to issue X number of tickets.. Again, you got fucked.. Not illegal..


Edit: Ohh yeah.. Forgot.. Per case law (don't ask me which one) a cop can order you out of the vehicle. It's not to treat you like a thug or what ever you called it but is legal.. Something I often do.. Not always but sometimes.. And if you had then not given consent for him to search your vehicle then he would not have been able to.. He can also request your passengers IDs.. If there was a violation of law (not wearing a seatbelt) then he can demand your passengers IDs.. If there was no violation the passengers are not required to show ID for the sake of them being in the car.. Again, he can 'request' but if they refused and there is no violation then there is nothing the cop can do..

[Car Guy]

I am still curious about two things: (Guteman) was consent to search the vehicle given and (Mr. Twigbert) is blatantly lying about registration not being legit SOP...???


Dick - "It also appears that the plates on this vehicle do not match the vehicle."

Me - "WHAT? You're kidding me, right?"

Dick - "No. Step out of the vehicle, right now. You and your passenger. Let me have your ID passenger."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me - "So what about this problem with my vehicle not matching my plates?"

That was way more important to me because this could end up in getting my car towed where the possibility that things will be stolen or screwed with are almost a guarantee. There's a ton of money put into this car.

Nicer Officer - "Oh that was a mistake, your plates check out fine."


.

[Mr Twigbert]

I am still curious about two things: (Guteman) was consent to search the vehicle given and (Mr. Twigbert) is blatantly lying about registration not being legit SOP...???


Dick - "It also appears that the plates on this vehicle do not match the vehicle."

Me - "WHAT? You're kidding me, right?"

Dick - "No. Step out of the vehicle, right now. You and your passenger. Let me have your ID passenger."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me - "So what about this problem with my vehicle not matching my plates?"

That was way more important to me because this could end up in getting my car towed where the possibility that things will be stolen or screwed with are almost a guarantee. There's a ton of money put into this car.

Nicer Officer - "Oh that was a mistake, your plates check out fine."


.


This is what we call, FAT FINGERING THE KEYBOARD.. I have typed in the wrong plate HUNDREDS of times.. Having to type in up to 7 digits in a keyboard (sometimes down by your knees) that is filled with soft drink residue and potato chip particles is not easy.. I've stopped no less than 100 people for typing in the plate wrong, then stopped the vehicle, then talked to the people who give me that 'WTF are you talking about my plates don't list to the vehicle' look, go back to the car to double check my work and find out I made an error.. Sorry, but I'm human.. I then go back up and explain my error and let them go.. UNLESS, I find a violation that is so important to write and then I write it.. I docment my mistake in the citation narrative and let the court sort it out.. No big deal..

Thanks for pointing it out but no, I was not "Blatantly lieing about SOP".. :durr

[Car Guy]

Thanks for pointing it out but no, I was not "Blatantly lieing about SOP".. :durr

In no way was I accusing you of anything, your name was in parenthesies becasue the question was directed at you.....:thumbsup

[-stew-]

This is what we call, FAT FINGERING THE KEYBOARD.. I have typed in the wrong plate HUNDREDS of times.. Having to type in up to 7 digits in a keyboard (sometimes down by your knees) that is filled with soft drink residue and potato chip particles is not easy.. I've stopped no less than 100 people for typing in the plate wrong, then stopped the vehicle, then talked to the people who give me that 'WTF are you talking about my plates don't list to the vehicle' look, go back to the car to double check my work and find out I made an error.. Sorry, but I'm human.. I then go back up and explain my error and let them go.. UNLESS, I find a violation that is so important to write and then I write it.. I docment my mistake in the citation narrative and let the court sort it out.. No big deal..

Thanks for pointing it out but no, I was not "Blatantly lieing about SOP".. :durr

Twigbert, with all due respect, if a cop cannot correctly type in a plate number 99 times out of 100, he should be in a different line of work. There is a huge responsibility on the shoulders of law enforcement. While every one does make mistakes, they should be above the old "opps, I made a mistake." Something as simple as "fat fingering the keyboard" can really fuck up someones world, there should be more account accountability for those doing the fingering.

[Mr Twigbert]

In no way was I accusing you of anything, your name was in parenthesies becasue the question was directed at you.....:thumbsup


Sorry, I must have read it wrong.. See, that is an example of reading something wrong.. Just like reading/typing plates in wrong.. Chit happens..

But, you did mention lieing and I feel I can shed some light on this too..

Contrary to what many people think, cops are permitted to 'lie'.. And we can also use deception..

Example: Somone is arrested for an offense.. A cop grabs a blank video tape and sits down with the subject.. The cop puts the blank video tape on the table and says they have the entire event cought on tape.. The suspect then breaks down and tells the story.. Totally legal.. The cop lied and used deception but the confession is still useable in court..


Now the stated incident.. Lets look at the offenses at hand, location and over all enviorment.. The cop stated something that was false.. What could be his reasoning for this? The only thing that comes to mind is if he wanted to get a confession and he was hoping the driver would state, "I stole them off another car." But this does not jive with the offenses, location and over all enviorment.. So this has me a bit confused to why he would state this..

However, seeing I can't make any sense of the cop lieing and useing deception in this situation then I would tend to believe he just thought, for what ever reason, he plates didn't list.. Maybe he typed in the plate wrong, maybe he read the screen wrong.. Maybe he saw SAAB when he ran the plate but when he approached the vehicle he thought it was a different type of car..

Example: When I saw this photo I thought 100% it was an older VW Jetta..

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z172/Guteman/rimsInstalled1.jpg

I also know SAABs have 'SAAB' in the back of the car in big bold letters for all to see.. But I could also see how standing next to this thing would lead me to think it was a VW..

Does anyone else see this thing looking like an older Jetta or it it just me? Fuck me, I hope it's not just me..

[Mr Twigbert]

Twigbert, with all due respect, if a cop cannot correctly type in a plate number 99 times out of 100, he should be in a different line of work. There is a huge responsibility on the shoulders of law enforcement. While every one does make mistakes, they should be above the old "opps, I made a mistake." Something as simple as "fat fingering the keyboard" can really fuck up someones world, there should be more account accountability for those doing the fingering.

Boy, I didn't know cops had to be machines who don't make mistakes..

WI just signed into a law that you can not text and drive.. Because it could cause an accident.. But yet a cop is supposed to drive, listen to the radio, type on the keyboard (text) AND read a computer screen and be 99% accurate????

Let's just toss this out.. You get into an accident while texting.. You are given a ticket and your INS Co covers the damage.. Imagine causing an accident in a police car and injuring someone, in uniform while simple 'texting' with the keyboard.. I think there is a bit more stress that goes on the cops shoulders..

Try it some time.. PLEASE, try it sometime.. Let me know how it goes..

And if I typed in 100 plates wrong it sounds like alot.. But 100 plates over 6 years, which could be tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands.. Hell, maybe I've even typed in a million plates by now.. That 100 wrong plates don't sound too bad to me..

[OxmanWI]

If you know you've got illegal tint and no front plate expect your ass to get pulled over once and a while. Police officers can just about pull you over for anything. Your best bet is to know the drill and be respectful. If you feel you've been wronged, that's why you go to court and handle it. Otherwise get the car fixed up right so this wont happen again.

[Car Guy]

Sorry, I must have read it wrong.. See, that is an example of reading something wrong.. Just like reading/typing plates in wrong.. Chit happens..

But, you did mention lieing and I feel I can shed some light on this too..

Contrary to what many people think, cops are permitted to 'lie'.. And we can also use deception..

Example: Somone is arrested for an offense.. A cop grabs a blank video tape and sits down with the subject.. The cop puts the blank video tape on the table and says they have the entire event cought on tape.. The suspect then breaks down and tells the story.. Totally legal.. The cop lied and used deception but the confession is still useable in court..


Now the stated incident.. Lets look at the offenses at hand, location and over all enviorment.. The cop stated something that was false.. What could be his reasoning for this? The only thing that comes to mind is if he wanted to get a confession and he was hoping the driver would state, "I stole them off another car." But this does not jive with the offenses, location and over all enviorment.. So this has me a bit confused to why he would state this..

However, seeing I can't make any sense of the cop lieing and useing deception in this situation then I would tend to believe he just thought, for what ever reason, he plates didn't list.. Maybe he typed in the plate wrong, maybe he read the screen wrong.. Maybe he saw SAAB when he ran the plate but when he approached the vehicle he thought it was a different type of car.


I appreciate the clarification.....


.

[Korndogg]

I see no consent being given or probable cause for searching his vehicle....


Its says right in the first post he gave permission...

[ThatWhiteCivic]

Lots of good info Twigbert :thumbsup

[Guteman]

@Mr Twigbert: First of all, thank you! you were exactly the person I was hoping to hear from. If was a very informative post especially on what tinting percentages can be used and where. The cop rolled off those rules but I hope you can understand I wasn't too interested in hearing what he had to say at the time. One comment I want to make is this cop is in his 40's. I know this because hes on facebook, lol. I'm half tempted to add him as a friend to see if he'll sit down for a cup of coffee, perhaps a donut? I joke I joke I kid I kid.

Question 1: Can you be issued multiple tickets for the same trans id number in the same traffic stop? This is what I got. I got two vent and front side window (2 points each) and two rear side window (0 points) tickets. The last being the front plate.

Question 2: Thinking hypothetically (put on your pissed off cop hat), what if I were to not consent to the search of the vehicle? Where could things escalate from there if your in this state of mind? I had a feeling this police officer was willing to do anything to add on to the rap sheet that evening.

Question 3: Why was the cop not interested in seeing my proof of ownership? I have indeed been pulled over for plates not matching the car in my DAILY DRIVER. Not the Saab. I had to provide proof of ownership via insurance card and registration and things were cleared up and I got new plates in the mail later in the week. The fact that he said NO then started looking around my car ready for a search is sketchy.

The whole searching of the vehicle is sketchy. A cop saying your plates don't match this vehicle, ORDERING you out of the vehicle, ORDERING to see my friends ID, and pretty much ORDERING to search the vehicle. It wasn't much of a Q&A in my opinion. By that time I was ready to let the officer do whatever he wanted to get this over with. I had nothing to hide, but the answer I get from question 2 will help drive whether or not I will let officers search my vehicle. He moved my golf clubs all over the place and shuffled around my gauge modules to the point they were out of their mountings. It seriously looked like he just tossed stuff around and left it all there for me to clean later. Disrespect.

On topic of classic screws up of what my car is. All I have to say is mission accomplished (except maybe in this case). The purpose of the car is its something different, sleeper as car people call it. I heard a number of things like the VW, some type of Honda, a Volvo, and the best was a MINI VAN. The rear is completely debadged except the Saab griffin logo.

No worries about fat keyboard syndrome. That's a pety mistake. If somebody is going to call you out on something like that is a hypocrite. I'm a web developer, and I make typo's on a daily basis, some that can completely fudge a website or database if you're not careful.

More to come later, but thanks for the info. Where in WI are you patrolling?

[Guteman]

Me and my big mouth. An editor (a friend of mine) liked my note on facebook (where the OP originated) so much she put it on suburban bully, a popular milwaukee metro area website.

http://www.suburbanbully.com/Articles/Mil%20PD

[agent orange acr]

I have a side question for Mr. Twigbert in your squad cars do you have a large or medium size book with laws and violations in it and if you do what color is it? I got pulled over once and one officer walked over to the other in the van and they started to page through a book while i was waiting?

[Car Guy]

Its says right in the first post he gave permission...

You are correct, permission was given.....

[Mr Twigbert]

Question 1: Can you be issued multiple tickets for the same trans id number in the same traffic stop? This is what I got. I got two vent and front side window (2 points each) and two rear side window (0 points) tickets. The last being the front plate.

Yes.. If you have two front side windows that are in violation then you can receive a ticket for each window.. Which is what he did.. But if you only have 1 window that is tinted and he issues you 2 two tickets then that is a no no..

Again, go to the court date.. You will only pay one.. The others will be released.. And of that one I bet it will be a 0 point violation..


Question 2: Thinking hypothetically (put on your pissed off cop hat), what if I were to not consent to the search of the vehicle? Where could things escalate from there if your in this state of mind? I had a feeling this police officer was willing to do anything to add on to the rap sheet that evening.

If you refuse then he can't search the car.. If he does and finds something illegal then it can't be used aginst you.. It's called 'fruit of the poisonous tree'.. Meaning if anything is done illegally then any and all evidence obtained after that point is illegal.. That could be actualy hard evidence, statments, everything..

As far as things escalating, I dunno.. I've been plenty pissed off and straight wanna Rodney King their ass but I stop because I need my job.. Not to mention 80% of our cars have cameras.. I've seen some shady stuff in my time but nothing that is over the top..

Question 3: Why was the cop not interested in seeing my proof of ownership? I have indeed been pulled over for plates not matching the car in my DAILY DRIVER. Not the Saab. I had to provide proof of ownership via insurance card and registration and things were cleared up and I got new plates in the mail later in the week. The fact that he said NO then started looking around my car ready for a search is sketchy.

Now I wasn't there and I'm not him.. But I have been assigned to the traffic squad for two years now.. All I do, 8 hours a day is traffic stops.. So I can say I have had similuar situations.. If I believed the plates didn't match and I ask the driver to get out of the car for any reason then my NEXT step is to get the driver to the rear of the car.. Which it sounds like he did.. I can understand you wanting to explain it right then and there at the driver door but standing in the roadway isn't the time.. Once at the back of the car and the driver being adamant that the plates list I would probably say keep your paperwork and look at the last 4 numbers of the vin and check the computer screen.. If it didn't match up from there then I would ask to see the paperwork.. But you can tell when someone is bullshiting about something and they are like 'WTF! I know those are the right plates!' When I get the 'WTF' look I know I probably made a mistake.. 95% of the time the DMV screen is right.. Not always but dam near always.. I'm about 90% I wouldn't have wanted to see the paper work either.. But that's just me..

The whole searching of the vehicle is sketchy. A cop saying your plates don't match this vehicle, ORDERING you out of the vehicle, ORDERING to see my friends ID, and pretty much ORDERING to search the vehicle. It wasn't much of a Q&A in my opinion. By that time I was ready to let the officer do whatever he wanted to get this over with. I had nothing to hide, but the answer I get from question 2 will help drive whether or not I will let officers search my vehicle. He moved my golf clubs all over the place and shuffled around my gauge modules to the point they were out of their mountings. It seriously looked like he just tossed stuff around and left it all there for me to clean later. Disrespect.

Again, case law says a cop can order you out of the car during a traffic stop.. And there doesn't have to be a reason for it either.. It just can be done.. I 'think' it was ruled this way because it may be safer for the cop not to have to stand at the driver door, maybe because the cop might not be able to hear the driver with the other road noises, maybe so the cop can get a better look at the driver and use his other senses (smell).. I dunno why it's rules like that but it can be done with no other justification..

As far as ordering to see everyone's IDs.. Now we are splitting hairs.. When I have a car stopped and I want to see everyone's IDs I say, "I want to see everyones IDs.. Brake them out now.." But's lets analyze this: I used a form of verbal judo.. I said it in such a way that the people in the car think they have to give me their IDs.. It was straight forward and doesn't leave alot of wiggle room.. HOWEVER, if they refused and I don't see a violation (open container, no seatbelt) then I can't demand it.. So when you say he 'ORDERED' it I have a feeling he used a bit of verbal judo.. But if he had said, 'GIVE ME YOUR ID'S OR YOUR GOING TO JAIL' and there is no violation then were getting into that area gray area.. I suppose you could even say that but if the person still refuses and there is no violation then you can't act on it and they called your bluff..



If your so bothered then call and speak to a Sgt.. District 5's phone number is 935-7253..

If your REALLY pissed then stop in at any district station and grab a blue complaint form.. They will be out in the lobby.. Hell, grab two of them in case you get long winded with your statement..

I assure you, it WILL be investigated..

I think you did the right thing and held your mouth closed.. Sometimes you have to and it's hard to do.. TRUST ME, I KNOW! People can be nasty.. VERY nasty.. And it hurts.. I've found when I write handicapped parking tickets, $200, people say just about anything to get under my skin.. Even though THEY were so lazy they couldn't park 10 more feet away..

I say roll it off your back.. Not worth staying angry.. You've clearly been stopped alot and had some decent experiences.. This was just a crappy one.. But then again, fight for what you believe..

Either way, wish ya luck..

And I work for MPD, District Three..

[Al]

And if I typed in 100 plates wrong it sounds like alot.. But 100 plates over 6 years, which could be tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands.. Hell, maybe I've even typed in a million plates by now.. That 100 wrong plates don't sound too bad to me..

How long till you get those automatic scanners that check plates for you?

[PureSound15]

I've found when I write handicapped parking tickets, $200, people say just about anything to get under my skin.. Even though THEY were so lazy they couldn't park 10 more feet away.. .

FTR - I am happy to hear that you write those tickets. One of the few things that can inspire me to open my mouth to a stranger when they do it. :thumbsup

[Waver]

ftr - i am happy to hear that you write those tickets. One of the few things that can inspire me to open my mouth to a stranger when they do it. :thumbsup

+1

[Mr Twigbert]

How long till you get those automatic scanners that check plates for you?

Some Districts have them but we don't. That's ok though. Have you seen those things? They look funky. 4 big boxes on the corners. Almost as stupid looking as that night vision thing Greenfield has on the top of their cars.

[03CVLX]

Almost as stupid looking as that night vision thing Greenfield has on the top of their cars.

Wait, What????

[Yooformula]

nice job Sean! And I agree about keeping a level head and playing it cool Guteman. Sometimes it seems like just arent READING the threads entirely before posting. It should be clear by now that your post was about the treatment you received, which even Sean said was bs, not the tickets themselves.

Sucks to catch a cop in a bad mood but tempers never settle anything. I once got 4 tickets on the spot then when they towed my truck I gave the cop the finger and ended up with a 5th ticket. I only did it because I came home from a gym class and it was snowing and he wouldnt let me get my jacket out of the car so I walked home several miles freezing my ass off in the snow with just a t-shirt and sweatpants on. Later when a family friend introduced me to the cop, he told me had I just shut my "fucking mouth" he would have just let me go.

[GTSLOW]

Some Districts have them but we don't. That's ok though. Have you seen those things? They look funky. 4 big boxes on the corners. Almost as stupid looking as that night vision thing Greenfield has on the top of their cars.

You should see the dumbass parking ticket cars here in Madison. The freaking thing has like 20 cameras on it all over suspended by metal rods.

[wrath]

I got a ticket for doing a fscking U-turn in Pewaukee on 74/F when there was NO ONE around. The cop was hiding in Steinhafel's driveway. The guy even wrote on the ticket that I was cooperative and friendly. It still got me two points (as opposed to four).

I'm sure that cop didn't have any consideration for the ramifications of his actions. Why bother writing someone up who clearly isn't a menace for such a minuscule citation? All it did was change my mind from thinking all those people I see them pull over on 164 got caught being stupid to thinking the cops are fscking over another fellow citizen.

I had never been pulled over in Wisconsin prior to that.


And as far as being accurate in typing information in the computer... fatfingering can have an impact on people's lives. Say someone keeps getting pulled over because their plate looks like some douchebag's plate and some cop has difficulty typing it in (because it's similar). So this guy has a ton of stops on his record and it really isn't his fault... he maybe drives tons of miles AND has plates similar to some other douchebag. As time goes on he gets pulled over more and more because this particular car has a bunch of stops so it must be worth pulling over for the next cop that runs his plate.


And if I make a fatfinger mistake there is potential for ENTIRE COMMUNITIES to lose their power. So I don't commit unless I'm 100% sure.

[animal]

As far as ordering to see everyone's IDs.. Now we are splitting hairs.. When I have a car stopped and I want to see everyone's IDs I say, "I want to see everyones IDs.. Brake them out now.." But's lets analyze this: I used a form of verbal judo.. I said it in such a way that the people in the car think they have to give me their IDs.. It was straight forward and doesn't leave alot of wiggle room.. HOWEVER, if they refused and I don't see a violation (open container, no seatbelt) then I can't demand it.. So when you say he 'ORDERED' it I have a feeling he used a bit of verbal judo.. But if he had said, 'GIVE ME YOUR ID'S OR YOUR GOING TO JAIL' and there is no violation then were getting into that area gray area.. I suppose you could even say that but if the person still refuses and there is no violation then you can't act on it and they called your bluff..

Any idea where we can get a breakdown of a person's rights on a stop? I'd have never known they can't require a passenger ID without reason, nor some of the other stuff you mentioned. It's all in the "good to know" category. I fully realize if you become a rules lawyer you're less likely to get out of a traffic stop with a warning but I do like to be informed of what they can and can't require of someone.

[Lash]

Me and my big mouth. An editor (a friend of mine) liked my note on facebook (where the OP originated) so much she put it on suburban bully, a popular milwaukee metro area website.

http://www.suburbanbully.com/Articles/Mil%20PD

You should maybe take down the BCM link.

[Irish]

Some Districts have them but we don't. That's ok though. Have you seen those things? They look funky. 4 big boxes on the corners. Almost as stupid looking as that night vision thing Greenfield has on the top of their cars.

Isn't it a heat sensor to detect someone's body heat when searching for them in the dark?

[Mr Twigbert]

Any idea where we can get a breakdown of a person's rights on a stop? I'd have never known they can't require a passenger ID without reason, nor some of the other stuff you mentioned. It's all in the "good to know" category. I fully realize if you become a rules lawyer you're less likely to get out of a traffic stop with a warning but I do like to be informed of what they can and can't require of someone.

There is no one book that has it all..

Most of what police can and can't do is based off of other states case law.. And what I mean is some where, in some state a judge ruled that it is acceptable for a cop to order a driver out of the car. Thus, all cops in all states can do it.. That was a good ruling for police..

In another state a judge ruled police can no longer search a car just because you arrest the driver.. There has to be additional elements to search the car.. That's known as the Grant ruling.. And I can only remember this because it was a big change and happened about a year ago..

So you see there is no one book and as you can see with the Grant ruling stuff changes too.. But ask and I will fill your brain full of knowledge that you will probably never need..

[Yooformula]

You should maybe take down the BCM link.

yes, please do. :thumbsup

[PureSound15]

I got a ticket for doing a fscking U-turn in Pewaukee on 74/F when there was NO ONE around. The cop was hiding in Steinhafel's driveway. The guy even wrote on the ticket that I was cooperative and friendly. It still got me two points (as opposed to four).

I'm sure that cop didn't have any consideration for the ramifications of his actions. Why bother writing someone up who clearly isn't a menace for such a minuscule citation? All it did was change my mind from thinking all those people I see them pull over on 164 got caught being stupid to thinking the cops are fscking over another fellow citizen.

I had never been pulled over in Wisconsin prior to that.


And as far as being accurate in typing information in the computer... fatfingering can have an impact on people's lives. Say someone keeps getting pulled over because their plate looks like some douchebag's plate and some cop has difficulty typing it in (because it's similar). So this guy has a ton of stops on his record and it really isn't his fault... he maybe drives tons of miles AND has plates similar to some other douchebag. As time goes on he gets pulled over more and more because this particular car has a bunch of stops so it must be worth pulling over for the next cop that runs his plate.


And if I make a fatfinger mistake there is potential for ENTIRE COMMUNITIES to lose their power. So I don't commit unless I'm 100% sure.

Another rendition of "the world against wrath" with an additional "a slip of wraths finger can impact the world!"

[Yooformula]

And as far as being accurate in typing information in the computer... fatfingering can have an impact on people's lives. Say someone keeps getting pulled over because their plate looks like some douchebag's plate and some cop has difficulty typing it in (because it's similar). So this guy has a ton of stops on his record and it really isn't his fault... he maybe drives tons of miles AND has plates similar to some other douchebag. As time goes on he gets pulled over more and more because this particular car has a bunch of stops so it must be worth pulling over for the next cop that runs his plate.


And if I make a fatfinger mistake there is potential for ENTIRE COMMUNITIES to lose their power. So I don't commit unless I'm 100% sure.

you are reaching there wrath. how many people do you personally know that have been pulled over for a mistaken plate number? that someone you mentioned would be a 1 in a million case and how bad of a driver must he be to be constantly pulled over for it? I couldnt fit my driving record in this thread but I have never once been pulled over or even questioned for a mistaken plate.....and I have been pulled over ALOT in my younger days.

[wrath]

Another rendition of "the world against wrath" with an additional "a slip of wraths finger can impact the world!"

The world is full of stupid people and what I do is of little consequence to the world.


you are reaching there wrath. how many people do you personally know that have been pulled over for a mistaken plate number? that someone you mentioned would be a 1 in a million case and how bad of a driver must he be to be constantly pulled over for it? I couldnt fit my driving record in this thread but I have never once been pulled over or even questioned for a mistaken plate.....and I have been pulled over ALOT in my younger days.

My neighbor has a Toyota pickup and it gets pulled over all the time because someone else has a black Toyota pickup with similar license plates... only my neighbor is just as boring as me... the other guy apparently likes DUI-ing.

I've been pulled over a lot with my old Silverado... I don't know what 1226HM could possibly look like besides 1226HM.

The more someone gets pulled over, the more likely they are to get pulled over regardless if they did anything wrong. "10 pages of shit yo? Fark, let's pull 'em over and maybe I'll get lucky".

[Rocket Power]

It should be clear by now that your post was about the treatment you received, which even Sean said was bs, not the tickets themselves.

I realized that the cop was being a jag, but he most likely would have been let go with nothing but a small inconvenience, had he not been driving around in an illegal vehicle, esp around bartime.

[Guteman]

I realized that the cop was being a jag, but he most likely would have been let go with nothing but a small inconvenience, had he not been driving around in an illegal vehicle, esp around bartime.

With SO many cars exactly like mine around Milwaukee some other person would of probably gotten the same treatment and disrespect if my car had been free of evil deeds such as tint and no front plate. :rolleyes: Would said person post it on discussion forums and social networking sites like me? Probably not, but it still doesn't take away from the treatment received. Please stop pointing out the obvious things everyone knows.

I did not post this link on Suburban Bully, so I cannot remove it myself. Is there a good reason to get rid it? It's probably driving traffic to this site. If you want it gone I'm sure I can request to get it removed.

My Twigbert, thank you again for your replies. I don't think I will be escalating this any further by calling captains because I understand that these captains aren't interested in hearing traffic violations involving window tint and front plates especially when you (and I) believe the cop really did not step out of the code of conduct. I basically got fucked over within the bounds of the law. The captain is probably more concerned about the bigger crimes going on around Milwaukee as he should be.

Right now I'm deciding whether or not to get a lawyer to be my mediator or just show up in court myself and get this resolved.

[pOrk]

The points will likely be dropped reguardless of the outcome because window tint is an equipment modification.

After my car was tore apart in West Allis after allowing them to search my car a few years ago, I would NEVER allow for a search of my vehicle again and have denied a few times now. If I am asked to step out of my car, I close the windows and lock the doors.

As for the multiple tickets, I don't think those will hold up in court either.

[Al]

There is no one book that has it all..

What I am curious about is how I should respond to a police officer when asked to do something. That is, if he says "can I search your car," what would be the best thing to say?

Should I respond:
-do I have to?
-do I have a choice?
-what are my options in this situation?
-if I say no, will that be held against me?
-I would prefer that you do not?

I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago where the police said they could impound a car and arrest the owner if the owner refused to consent to a search.

[Car Guy]

What I am curious about is how I should respond to a police officer when asked to do something. That is, if he says "can I search your car," what would be the best thing to say?

No.....:thumbsup

[JaMichaels]

My quick police rant..

Pulled over on 164 in between Pewaukee/Sussex.. Waukesha County Sheriff on the first day I bought my GTP. I had traded plates from my Grand AM to my Grand Prix and sent the paperwork out and had my copies from the DMV for proof of ownerships whatever.

I was speeding, he pulled me over and before he even got to the window I handed him allllll my paperwork. Long story short, he thought it was stolen, found out it wasn't and just issued me a ticket for speeding.

Here's the fun part, he released me after issuing my ticket and never returned my plate transfer paperwork/title. Next day, my ma found it IN our mailbox, no letter with postage or anything. Is it legal for cops to break federal law? Just curious lol

[70 cutlass 442]

My quick police rant..

Pulled over on 164 in between Pewaukee/Sussex.. Waukesha County Sheriff on the first day I bought my GTP. I had traded plates from my Grand AM to my Grand Prix and sent the paperwork out and had my copies from the DMV for proof of ownerships whatever.

I was speeding, he pulled me over and before he even got to the window I handed him allllll my paperwork. Long story short, he thought it was stolen, found out it wasn't and just issued me a ticket for speeding.

Here's the fun part, he released me after issuing my ticket and never returned my plate transfer paperwork/title. Next day, my ma found it IN our mailbox, no letter with postage or anything. Is it legal for cops to break federal law? Just curious lol


Are you serious? you are ranting that you were speeding, then got a speeding ticket, then he made a simple mistake of not returning your paperwork, which obviously you made the same mistake because you forgot that you didnt have the paperwork in hand before you drove off..... and tampering with a mailbox is a federal offense, but when you tamper with something it is done with malicious intentions.. im sure returning your paperwork was done witout malicious intentions :goof

[70 cutlass 442]

Twigbert, with all due respect, if a cop cannot correctly type in a plate number 99 times out of 100, he should be in a different line of work. There is a huge responsibility on the shoulders of law enforcement. While every one does make mistakes, they should be above the old "opps, I made a mistake." Something as simple as "fat fingering the keyboard" can really fuck up someones world, there should be more account accountability for those doing the fingering.

so 1 of every 1000 plates he runs may be mistyped.... so his accuracy is 99.99%.... are you 99.99% accurate at your job at all times???

[JaMichaels]

Are you serious? you are ranting that you were speeding, then got a speeding ticket, then he made a simple mistake of not returning your paperwork, which obviously you made the same mistake because you forgot that you didnt have the paperwork in hand before you drove off..... and tampering with a mailbox is a federal offense, but when you tamper with something it is done with malicious intentions.. im sure returning your paperwork was done witout malicious intentions :goof


Lol, I agree, but was I speeding with malicious intentions? I was doing 9 over in a 45 at like 11:30pm with no one on the road.

Breaking the law is breaking the law, malicious or not, you can't go around opening peoples mailbox's no matter your intentions. I broke a speed law, he broke a Federal law. He still won lol

[GTSLOW]

I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago where the police said they could impound a car and arrest the owner if the owner refused to consent to a search.

I've never heard of this but I'd have to say if that was the case then why do they even ask? Now not consenting to a breathalizer/sobriety test is a different case.

[PureSound15]

Lol, I agree, but was I speeding with malicious intentions? I was doing 9 over in a 45 at like 11:30pm with no one on the road.



I'm surprised you got stopped for that. I do 10 over all the time :confused

Maybe I'm lucky!

[70 cutlass 442]

Lol, I agree, but was I speeding with malicious intentions? I was doing 9 over in a 45 at like 11:30pm with no one on the road.

Breaking the law is breaking the law, malicious or not, you can't go around opening peoples mailbox's no matter your intentions. I broke a speed law, he broke a Federal law. He still won lol

Im saying you are wrong about the law and mail boxes:

For you to find the defendant guilty of this offense, the state must have proven beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of the following essential elements:1

(1) that the defendant [damaged] [destroyed] [removed] [otherwise

tampered with] a [residential mailbox] [container the defendant knew,

or reasonably should have known, was used for the receipt or deposit

of United States mail];

and

(2) that the defendant acted knowingly.

"Knowingly" means that a person acts knowingly with respect to the conduct or to circumstances surrounding the conduct when the person is aware of the nature of the conduct or that the circumstances exist. A person acts knowingly with respect to the result of the person's conduct when the person is aware that the conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result.2

The requirement of "knowingly" is also established if it is shown that the defendant acted intentionally.3

"Intentionally" means that a person acts intentionally with respect to the nature of the conduct when it is the person's conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.4

FOOTNOTES

1. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-14-412(a).

2. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(20).

3. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-301(a)(2).

4. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(18).

[Guteman]

Wait, what? You're complaining that the cop returned your information to your mailbox? That's not a federal offense, that's delivering mail. I'd call the officer and thank him.

[JaMichaels]

Lol, cops are now postal employees.

The USPS Domestic Mail Manual states that “no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items of matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle.” In other words, the mailbox may not be used for anything other than for pieces of mail with postage attached. The USPS Domestic Mail Manual goes on to states that it is a federal offense and there is a significant penalty for violating this law.

Anyone other then the postal employee himself touching my mailbox, is a federal offense. I didn't say I wanted to take him to the supreme court to reign justice on his candy ass, just that he was an idiot. My mother being a postal employee concurred and we had a laugh. Just sharing.

Many other ways of returning my information, and him being a Brookfield Cop, a letter would have been delivered the same day to Hartland. Or he could have simply rang my doorbell..

[Al]

No.....:thumbsup

But what if they have just-cause to do so? If I say "no," can I get in trouble for that despite me not knowing if they actually have a proper reason to do so.

[Mr Twigbert]

What I am curious about is how I should respond to a police officer when asked to do something. That is, if he says "can I search your car," what would be the best thing to say?

Should I respond:
-do I have to?
-do I have a choice?
-what are my options in this situation?
-if I say no, will that be held against me?
-I would prefer that you do not?

I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago where the police said they could impound a car and arrest the owner if the owner refused to consent to a search.

If they ask to search your car car and you don't want them to do so then just say "No"... Remember, they asked didn't they?

And there is nothing wrong with saying it either.. It won't be held against you..

If they just start to search it then they must have a reason so just let them do it.. Unless you know the law don't try to be a roadside lawyer.. If they find something illegal then you will have your day in court.. If it was an illegal search then it will get tossed out..

There is no law or will there ever be a law that allows police to arrest a person and tow their car if they don't get consent to a search..

Remember, JUST BE POLITE and 90% of the stuff you are concerned about will never happen.. When I get pulled over I am SUPER polite.. I mean SUPER, DUPER, COULDN'T be any more polite and everything works out.. That is the key to having good traffic stop..

You want to know how to get back at a cop that gives you a ticket? Look at him/her while you are getting the ticket and say, "Thank you officer".. You may want to be an ass but that is the worst thing you can do to a cop.. When I give a person a ticket and they just look at me and say those words and TRULY MEAN IT I often take the ticket back and void it out.. There might have even been a situation where someone said, "I'm sorry for speeding officer.. I hope I didn't ruin your day by my actions".. Needless to say that guy got let go and repulled over two blocks away and the ticket voided out..

Even if you get the ticket and say those magic words the cop will still go back to his/her car and be like.. Fawk.. That person was so nice and I just gave them a ticket?? /sigh.. Trust me.. It happens! And then they feel bad.. So who won then?


But what if they have just-cause to do so? If I say "no," can I get in trouble for that despite me not knowing if they actually have a proper reason to do so.

If they have just-cause to search your car then they will just do it.. They won't ask.. If they search I suggest you don't get up and try to stop them.. Remember, MOST cars have cameras these days.. If something was done illegally then it's all cought on tape.. Pick and choose your battles.. Remember my golden rule.. BE POLITE and battle it some other time.. Not then and there on the side of the road.. Heck, take it to a forum and I will offer some advice..

Trust me.. I WANT to side with the cops but that won't keep me from offering unbias advice..

[Guteman]

There is no law or will there ever be a law that allows police to arrest a person and tow their car if they don't get consent to a search..

When you put it this way, it makes sense. My question lies in what allows a police officer to tow a vehicle? Can it be towed for reasons regarding its has violations on it that require changing and cannot be driven on the street until the problems have been fixed? Basically what I'm getting at is "if you don't let me search this vehicle, this is how I can screw you even further." I've got nothing to hide, but after the disrespect I received from Dick, I hesitate letting a stranger look through my car.

I'm always polite, even when I'm enraged. Long time ago a police officer wrote in his notes that I was respectful and polite. I know this because the lawyer I got for this case told me and used it as leverage for a lesser violation. I don't get how some people are total dicks to officers and get let off, it happens. Maybe its just the girls with big tits. Discuss. :headbang

[Gregor]

Twigbert, that's first day shit on how to avoid getting a ticket.

Attitude is 90% on whether you get a ticket or not. The officer is just doing his job like we all have to do. Getting shitty with the guy/gal isn't going to help matters. I never had a problem with getting pulled over, in fact 70% percent of the time I get a warning. If you get busted doing 80 on the freeway your screwed end of story.

I have been pulled over, informed to get out of the car, searched and then asked if they could go through my car. "Sure man have at it" I replied. After a few minutes of that I was let go. No harm no foul.

If they didn't do it and I was a killer with a body in the trunk, and they let me go the same people that cry " I'm being harassed", would be crying "why didn't they search the guy?"

BTW if you acknowledge their rank (Corporal, Sargent, Sheriff) does it help you on getting a warning?

[-stew-]

I'm stupid.

[GTSLOW]

I'm stupid.

QFT :goof