Head question

[lilws6]

So i've been dicking around with the idea of doing a head cam in the car lately. i was wondering if i should just look for a set of used 6.0 heads and have them machined? then put some springs valves you know the whole works in the heads so there drop on ready. but i also want a decent size cam in there so would they flow good enough? since i'm right down the road i was thinkin i could drop the heads off at rocket racing and call it a day. Any suggestions?

[WickedSix]

only one don't send GM parts to RR

[sloLs1]

get the prc 2.5 heads from texas speed and performance.... ive got all my stuff from there and am happier than ever. just go check out there site and those heads.... youll be suprised on the power gains and the price. once you do all the work on a set of gm heads youll be damn near the price of those heads

[BAD LS1]

You will end op lowering the CR too much and they wont gain shit really. Not mention milling them brings the valves closer to the pistons which is grounds for notching the pistons.

^^^^ You cant beat the PRC heads for performance to dollar. Also dont go bat shit crazy on a cam size either! Iver personally gotten 2 ls1's with stock 241's, an ls6 intake on them over 400whp with nothing more than a 222/224 cam. If you want more detail on a combo, hit me up because its too easy to look at peak power gains but miss the fact you just tooka sledge hammer to all the power under the curve.

[lilws6]

the only reason i want a big cam is i want some lope. and i wasn't talking about machining the deck height i was talking ports and what not and maybe some biger valves and such? just trying to keep it cheaper i was thinking like a texas magic stick 3 or something not shure what a good cam is any more.

[Josepy]

big cam is not needed for lope. its the lsa that does a lot of that. i had a 224/224 on a 112 and it loped pretty hard

[0TransAm0]

what they have already said.. ^^ i have the comp SI2-- 224/224 .581/.581 112 lsa with the PRC stage 2.5 cnc ported/polished heads 660 lift valve springs yadda yadda yadda... has a really good lope to it and tons of power through out the RPM range. i have yet to get it on a dyno to get numbers tho... just ask tom he did the install of the heads and tuned it...

[sloLs1]

big cam is not needed for lope. its the lsa that does a lot of that. i had a 224/224 on a 112 and it loped pretty hard

and duration play a part in lope of the exhaust note.... lsa helps determine the rpm range in the cams sweet spot.




what they have already said.. ^^ i have the comp SI2-- 224/224 .581/.581 112 lsa with the PRC stage 2.5 cnc ported/polished heads 660 lift valve springs yadda yadda yadda... has a really good lope to it and tons of power through out the RPM range. i have yet to get it on a dyno to get numbers tho... just ask tom he did the install of the heads and tuned it...


thats kind of a similar setup to mine.... prc 2.5, torquer v2(232/234 .595/.598) on a 114... she definatly lopes, way more than i expected!

[Reverend Cooper]

duration has alot more to do with lope

[Josepy]

and duration play a part in lope of the exhaust note.... lsa helps determine the rpm range in the cams sweet spot.


Correct. they both make a big difference. cause my blower cam on the 115 lsa, has more duration than my previous cam. my previous cam was on a 112 with less duration but not by much and it pretty much rocked me to sleep in the car. loved it. cams are just about the same otherwise. crazy what small differences can do in sound and lope.

[Prince Valiant]

Well, lope is more overlap...which both are influenced by duration and LSA...the wider the LSA, the more duration required to achieve significant enough overlap to cause exhaust reversion, which then gives us that satisfying lopey idle characteristic.

Narrower the LSA, less duration warranted to achieve that magic amount of overlap.

Though older hands could speak more on this, THAT used to be what was listed and not LSA per se when you looked in the cam catalog.

A redneck way to get more "lope" is to simply retard the cam 6-8 degrees...

[BAD LS1]

the only reason i want a big cam is i want some lope. and i wasn't talking about machining the deck height i was talking ports and what not and maybe some biger valves and such? just trying to keep it cheaper i was thinking like a texas magic stick 3 or something not shure what a good cam is any more.

Buying a set of heads for $1200 shipped is alot further ahead. by the time you spend money on doing all the above mentioned to a set of 317 heads, all you created is a gutless wonder that has to live at 7k to be fast.

Albeit duration does play a part in lope sound, but its been my experience, from a "sound" standpoint on these engines, the LSA affect the chop at idle the most. While on paper the LSA just determines the usuable powerband.

If you plan on staying stock CI for a while, these heads are all you need. If you go batshit crazy on heads like 215+ CC IR's and 2.08 IV's you will kill the low end off badly, and then coupled with a donkey dick cam like an MS3 its to the point where you will NEED 4.56's. You can never have too much head, just not enough motor under that head! Thats easiest way i can describe this w/o getting too technical and ill be typing for the next hour.

You may make 450 the wheels with the right parts but at 6500, where another car with 400 peak to the wheels but with alot meatier power band will crush you by cars lengths everytime.

Don im not trying to sound like a condesending asshole here and cut you down, im just sick of people making combination decisions based off peak numbers and also on how it sounds and are never happy with the car after that and wonder why it gets its doors ripped off by lesser stuff.

[Josepy]

my old cam 237/242 112lsa low end power kinda sucked but it sounded good. my 224/224 112lsa was better. wish i could find the videos of it.

http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/josepy121380/?action=view&current=Corsa001.flv

[Crawlin]

those old TR224 cams were the shit. I remember those guys going fast as hell cam-only when they came out.

And yes, what Tom said about the heads is true. You get a set of proven heads for $1200 compared to having a set you have to purchase, then get cleaned and redo the valve seals and all kinds of other bullshit that you'd end up right around $800 for crappy ported heads.

Hell if you need a pair of cores, just let me know. I got a pair of them sitting around doing nothing since I won't have a car for a long time.

[BAD LS1]

^^^ That 224 i put in my red car first was my fav cam of all time, that thing rocked on the street and trapped 119 on stock heads!

[lilws6]

No its ok Tom i'm trying to learn some stuff obviously learned what how weak a ten bolt was no on to the motor. if i would be fine running stock heads for a while whats the best cam i could slap in with out having to run springs and stuff in the heads then? or will i have to change them out any way. I'm not going for peak numbers by any means. I'm not looking to win any dyno contests or anything like that just some some more power at a fairly little cost with the additional sound change would be nice. i know these things can be wicked with a head cam combo but if i'm better off stayin with the stock heads and rocking a decent cam thats what i'll do :)

[Josepy]

224/224 .581 112lsa cam, springs, titanium retainers, 7.4 hardened push rods.

that is what i did on my car for the first cam. I still have the stock heads on my car. You know what my car has in it.

[BAD LS1]

Well it is mandatory to upgrade springs and pushrods when going with an aggressive aftermarket cam, no way around that. The parts arent terribly expensive and they can be swapped out IN the car. Id wager your car with current mods, stock heads (with springs and pushrods) and a 224/228 581/581 112lsa cam when tuned would lay down 415 all day long and still be plenty balzy down low, i would strongly suggest 4.10s even with the stock cam to help it maintain its power application after shifts. I have the spring install tool and keep-a-lifter-from-dropping rods if you chose to do it your self.

[lilws6]

i may have to look into that then. Since i'm not even half way to a 9" yet :( i think i'm gana just kinda fix the rear for now with that kit i got to replace the crush sleeve. of course i might just wait until i can get the 9" and then i'll get a cam and get it all tuned out finally ;)

[lilws6]

so a texas speed 224r 112 lsa chromoly push rods and some single beehive springs the kits under $600 not to bad :) i cant choose the cam or a 12 bolt god damn it lol

[JMG853]

What is your budget Don?

I do not know a lot about F-bodies, but I would look at AFR Heads (Again, not sure if this is in your budget). My friend Tony Mamo has a really nice package with cam that makes power throughout the band. Peak numbers mean nothing to me unless your car is driven on the track all of the time and you are in those RPM Ranges all of the time. Otherwise, you want torque, and you want it to hit down low.

Again, no expert on F-Bodies. But I would go with AFR if it is in your budget, get a FAST 92 Intake (Ported), with a LS2 TB (ported), the appropriate cam (I like Mamo's cam or LG Motorsports cams), cam kit (Springs, seats, seals, retainers, pushrods), and a underdrive pulley. this is assuming you have cold air intake and headers on the car so it can breathe.

I would stick with Mamo or LG Motorsports. My LG C5Z put down 492 RWHP and 432 RW Torque - H/C set-up from Lou G at LG Motorsports with Tony Mamo heads and FAST Intake. Power was across the board...

Joel G