MFBA Accident

[Firefighter Z]

WE had Bad day for MFBA... We had an accident today towards the end of the cruise...

Zach flipped his 96 Z when he lost control some how I dont know I was the second on the scence so allI really saw was the gravel dust , We dont know how it happend but he was taken to the hosptial with a head injury of some sort, he is responsive though which is a very good thing....

His car is bad shape so basically totalled...

We'll let ya know more or check out MFBA

But please put Zach in you prayers

[ricksws7]

Must have happened just after I left for home. Sorry to hear about it . He will be in our prayers. The cruise was going smoothly while I was there. Rick

[02hawk796]

One couple with a 2nd gen T/A lost all 5 lug nuts on rear wheel about 20 miles into the Cruise. Four hours later that car died.

I fully hope he will be allright. I tipped a car on it's side once, but not yet fully flipped one. Hope his car makes it, too.
Best wishes, Buddy.

[93RedDevilZ28]

http://forum.fbody.us/showthread.php?p=216258#post216258

[BAD LS1]

man that sucks!!! :stare

Sorry to hear about that man!!! glad it wasnt anymore severe than it was...

[MoreTorque]

Damn man!!! Glad you are okay!

[Firefighter Z]

Zach I just wanted to knowsomething.
Did my bad luck rub off on you??? Cause Im thinking it did cause Im really having a bad luck year...
Glad your doing ok though sorry about the car man but at least it saved you..

Shoot me an e mail at whitethunderz28@aol.com

Josh

[Cryptic]

omg, glad to here he made it out of that ok.

[Brian98GTP]

Glad to hear you're OK...and good luck with getting things straightened out so you can get back on the road again... :)

[Yooformula]

Sorry to hear that Zach. That sucks but very glad you are ok! The car is replaceable, your hairy mug isnt. Glad you had people around to help you out. So, will a little touch up fix the car or can I part it out for ya:goof J/K

[93RedDevilZ28]

Zach I just wanted to knowsomething.
Did my bad luck rub off on you??? Cause Im thinking it did cause Im really having a bad luck year...
Glad your doing ok though sorry about the car man but at least it saved you..

Shoot me an e mail at whitethunderz28@aol.com

Josh

Hey, I would have taken almost pegging the hiker and deer, and bloody nose any day over doing my evil knevil impression!

Nonetheless, I will be keeping my distance from you on the fall cruise! j/k :goof

[y2kws6]

Sorry to hear that Zack, I cannot read the MFBA Board from here because they have it set up as a forum and not a website base site, so I did not get what really happened, but it doesn't sound good.

Hope everything goes well and get well soon.

Dan

[93RedDevilZ28]

Thanks for the well wishes dan!

What happened was, that I spun out on some gravel going into a turn and I ended up rolling the car (some people say I flipped once, others twice....felt like 3 or 4 times to me...it seemed to last forever).

Either way, the car did it's job and protected me and it took all of the force of the accident. My worse injury was from the EMT's sticking me with IV's. This morning I'm just basically sore, primairly in my right knee (banged the steering wheel or dash) and the left side of my head where the roof caved in and I whacked it.

I'll be without an f-body for sometime....but when I return....well, can we say LS1? :3gears:

[BlkBeauty96]

Zach... well at least you're ok. Was pissed that my alarm didn't go off in time so i could ride with you :mad: ... but it's a miracle that it went off later. Other wise i'd prolly be dead... the way i ride in cars...

Just glad you're okie! :thumbsup

[93RedDevilZ28]

thank you to you and everyone else for their well wishes! :thumbsup

[Crawlin]

I'm glad your alright. Amazing that people say that these cars are SOOOO unsafe, but many people have proved that they are some of the safest vehicles around. And it's good to know that you'll be out and about again and maybe in an even meaner car ;)

[02hawk796]

Glad to hear you are OK, Zach. I really feel bad that this happened, as the rest of us did also, I'm sure.

For those wondering, this was on a negative or variable G curve. I understand his rear slid out, and while his rear was sliding sideways in the ditch, a driveway caught his tire, which flipped him (sideways). This could happen to anybody who has ever slid a rear end, especially on a road "without walls" or 'safety barricades'.

I was not aware of hiker or deer episodes. That stuff is usually duties assigned to me and my wildlife magnet Hawk. Anybody know where those places were?

[Firefighter Z]

Well I was the one that almost pegged the hiker and the deer...

We were on a country road and the speed limit was 55mph, well i was doing about 62mph and had some distance from the cars ahead of me... The lady saw the other cars pass her so she looked right first and then walked out in front of me and then looked left in my direction until i was basically on top of her.
I braked hard (not locking up the tires) hoping she'd move in which she did just in time, But when I ways braking I didnt go into the" OH SHIAT MODE" cause when she moved I got right back on the gas so myself and other cars wouldnt rear end each other and cause a pile up...

Now with the deer incident,
I was coming up on a right hand corner in the twistys when all I see in the big mass of brown coming from my left peripfial(sp?) vision, I got on the brakes but knowing that I was coming up on a corner quick I let off the brakes cause I knew I would of spun out and the only thing I would of hit was a tree.

So when this was all happening at the same time the deer ran across the road and came within inches from being hit and with me thinking that this deer is gonna end up on my lap...

But we came out of it fine, but I think Danny O that might of been behind me and the other cars were thinking that there was gonna be a big mess.

I had some of the guys that were behind me that came up to me asking at lunch how close I was to that deer and how it freaked some of the other drivers out cause of the sudden braking and me possible hitting the deer...

But what I really think is that this is an initiation for my first MFBA cruise lol

Zach you still gonna use that wax for you car??? Cause a little wax and the car would look good as new.... Just kidding, I hope your next car is better, whats that I hear LS1 you say?!?

Josh

[BAD LS1]

Being the hardcore drag racer i am, i dont really get into windy roads much in the first place... they make me have "un easy" feelings, especially when being pushed to go as fast as you can to avoid others from eating your ass and avoid confrontation from those riding behind you because you simply go to slow for them because of limitation of your car and or driving ability.

This was not a good choice on behalf of the planners, knowing these roads we were on is one thing, i did notice ALOT of out of state plates and these people are very much newbies to these roads.

This is all speaking out of my opinion of course and im entitled to it...
Frankly im pretty distraut about all this and i dont really care if people carry a bad attiude against me for what im writing about this... it has to be said!!

But when you get lots of amatuer drivers on top of each other, fueled by fear of someone bitching them out because them selves or the car they are is not up to the task in an uncontroled enviroment and basically giving them a crash coarse in pushing their cars to the limit and telling them to drive as quickly as possible through the curves, roll through stop signs and diss-obey speed limits, all this is the catalyst for disaster.

My self and Heather met up with Zach prior and even during the cruise he was always a couple cars ahead... needless to say if i would have stayed in it long enough and saw this go down in person i would have gone fu-cking balistic for Zachs behalf!! because obviously he was in no condtion at the time to be ringing peoples neck :mad: :guns1

This whole situation could have and can get very ugly from many legal stand points...

Granted everyone "kinda" new what they were getting into but i dont think NO ONE was expecting to driving balls out for hours on end around SE WI's most treturous roads, i welcomed the idea of this cruise because it was a chance to hang out with fellow F body enthusiast and enjoy the cars and enjoy scenery and what have you, not be stressed by many of my above mentioned points.

I feel the planners need to take one good long look at the planning of this event before and make it more safe and pleasureable for EVERYONE, not just people who like road racing... This needs to be done before some one else looses their car or even their life next time.

:flipoff2: to all who think im out of line with my post, once again someone needed to say something.

[Crawlin]

Tom I agree with everything you said. I went on a spring cruise awhile back. It was a fun time, but at the same time there are many people that don't know roads out in the coutry. Luckily the ones we were on when i went, were roads i had flown down countless hundreds of times on the motorcycle before. I was comfortable, but i know that many weren't at the same time. I don't think it's really poor planning of the roads more than the driver's not realizing that sometimes, the speed limits are there for a reason. And before I get jumped on for that statement, I know everyone speeds on every road. What happened to Zach I think would have happened even if he was 5 UNDER the speed limit. I just think that in an open road environment, not closed off to pedestrians/animals/etc.. that some rules need to be set. Cause this ain't the first time an accident has happened. The previous one that I remember clearly happened in the same kinda incident that Josh talked about, people riding a bit too close together and not leaving enough time to react to a slowing car or anything that jumps in front of them.

Zach, like i said, when you are ready you know who to turn to in search for another car. And for future cruises, i think that there should be some kinda limit on speeds. As hypocritical as i'm about to sound, but i know i was doing 100+ just trying to keep up with the group so i didn't get lost the one time i went, and even knowing those roads i wasn't comfortable.

Chris

[02hawk796]

This was not a good choice on behalf of the planners, knowing these roads we were on is one thing, i did notice ALOT of out of state plates and these people are very much newbies to these roads.

I feel the planners need to take one good long look at the planning of this event before and make it more safe and pleasureable for EVERYONE, not just people who like road racing...

Tom, I appreciate your comments, and Heather's. I did not know where you guys went, and wasn't able to talk to you guys. If I had heard somebody chastizing you, I would have chewed them out. I think if you guys would have talked to us at Delafield, we could have re-stressed to all (other drivers) that we were to drive at the speed each driver was comfortable with. NOBODY was expected to keep up with the car ahead of them, and I, for one, am really ticked that this was not adhered to.
Tom, I assume you were in Heather's car, is that right?
I wish more participants could read your comments. The roads and route segments were intended to allow cars to "break up" or separate without anybody getting lost or missing any turns. This allows for each driver to go their desired speed (some like faster, some prefer slower, all should feel welcome, confident, and safe). The lead cars were able to contact the tail cars, to always ensure everybody made a turn. Later in the day, many new route segments caused some to miss a turn, and the entire group waited to completely re-group each time. We were more than an hour ahead of schedule, so we were in no hurry.
It was assumed that almost nobody along would "know" the roads, but many of the roads prior to Subway had been on previous Cruises, so many of the drivers were familiar with them. 20 min after Subway, ALL of the roads were virgin turf for all but Damon, John, and me, since we drove them either 2 or 4 weeks ago.
It was not a competitive event, and was not any road race, and nobody should have thought it was.
Tom, maybe you and/or Heather would like to ride shotgun with me on another Cruise. My passengers have veto (or governing) power during a Cruise.

An idea: the route is posted, why not take it some time at a "leisurely" pace? It can be done individually, or in a group. Since it's not fast, you could invite other BCM drivers to tag along. If you want help or have questions, you can ask me, I've driven the route several times in the past month. If you want to go on a Thrus or Fri, I could lead you guys. (or answer Q's while you all set the pace.) The roads really are fun to drive on, no matter the speed, and they are quite scenic now, too. Some of Sat's drivers now know where most of the turns are, too - so they can recognize them.


Chris, the incident to which you refer happened when an F-bod owner was tagging along in his pickup truck and rear-ended 2 Collector's Camaros. I know of no moving F-bod that has touched another F-bod during a Cruise.

[93RedDevilZ28]

Zach you still gonna use that wax for you car??? Cause a little wax and the car would look good as new.... Just kidding, I hope your next car is better, whats that I hear LS1 you say?!?

Josh


From what I hear, the passenger side isn't too bad, so maybe if I just spray it on that side, it will be all good :thumbsup

[BlkBeauty96]

Sure.. passengers side ok my ass! If i was with you, it wouldn't have been ok... :goof

[JC70SS]

Tom I agree with everything you said. I went on a spring cruise awhile back. It was a fun time, but at the same time there are many people that don't know roads out in the coutry. Luckily the ones we were on when i went, were roads i had flown down countless hundreds of times on the motorcycle before. I was comfortable, but i know that many weren't at the same time. I don't think it's really poor planning of the roads more than the driver's not realizing that sometimes, the speed limits are there for a reason. And before I get jumped on for that statement, I know everyone speeds on every road. What happened to Zach I think would have happened even if he was 5 UNDER the speed limit. I just think that in an open road environment, not closed off to pedestrians/animals/etc.. that some rules need to be set. Cause this ain't the first time an accident has happened. The previous one that I remember clearly happened in the same kinda incident that Josh talked about, people riding a bit too close together and not leaving enough time to react to a slowing car or anything that jumps in front of them.

Zach, like i said, when you are reading you know who to turn to in search for another car. And for future cruises, i think that there should be some kinda limit on speeds. As hypocritical as i'm about to sound, but i know i was doing 100+ just trying to keep up with the group so i didn't get lost the one time i went, and even knowing those roads i wasn't comfortable.

Chris
100+ mph?? Am I just a paranoid SOB or do these people not value their drivers license?? That is just dumb and dangerous. I would have been out of there in no time if I where there. Kinda reminds me of snowmobiling with my uncle down trails......have to be pushing 80+ mph all the time with complete danger or it is no fun :wtf

[DamonZ28]

100+ mph?? Am I just a paranoid SOB or do these people not value their drivers license?? That is just dumb and dangerous. I would have been out of there in no time if I where there. Kinda reminds me of snowmobiling with my uncle down trails......have to be pushing 80+ mph all the time with complete danger or it is no fun

Alright, this is getting blown a little out of proportion. We RARELY travel those speeds on the cruise. If you're hitting 100+ MPH to catch up, you're doing it by choice (which I did myself a couple times this year when I was near the end of the line, BY MY OWN CHOICE, ON A FLAT STRAIGHT-AWAY). It was stated at the beginning of the cruise that the leader would wait at the end of each road for everyone to catch up, or there would be a marker car at the next turn (and the marker car concept is new and needs refining). Ron & I had no idea that people were getting on Heather to speed up - we didn't find out about it until today.

Having said that - is the driving on the cruises too fast? I would have to say, "Yes." Zach's accident was a huge wakeup call to me as the planner of the cruises. All your suggestions are being taken into consideration. Safety needs to be the top priority.

Are we going to take future cruises at a "leisurely" pace, and feather-foot through all the turns? Probably not. Are we going to slow things down and be much more careful? Absolutely. But if you're looking for a Sunday afternoon-type cruise, you probably shouldn't come along because you're not likely to enjoy it.

I'll be posting an updated Cruise Protocol list within the next couple days or so, and will take everyone's suggestions into consideration. Once again, thanks to all for posting your honest suggestions.

[SMS 1]

Glad to hear you're ok Zach. Must have been one hell of a ride. Boy, lots of controversy goin on here huh? I will admit I didn't carefully read all of the large posts here from some of you guys, but I did sort of scan them.

Here is my take on it (for what its worth)

In the future I do plan on attending some of these cruises. First of all I will tell you right now that if you get pissed at someone not going fast enough for you, don't follow me. I'll get on the loud pedal plenty of times but usually only for short bursts or a couple of successive gear slams and then I'm done. I dont wanna lose my car, license, or life over this stuff especially on roads that I am not a total expert. Just my $.02

[02hawk796]

In the future I do plan on attending some of these cruises. First of all I will tell you right now that if you get pissed at someone not going fast enough for you, don't follow me.

That's the way to do it.
I have been told in the past that I drive too slow on the cruises, and as long as the slowness isn't causing a safety issue, I usually ignore them (yes, too slow can be unsafe, on blind hills and/or curves).
I have been asked to lead some segments sometimes, and I can say that if I had known that some participants had been pressured into driving faster than they wanted to, I would have made sure I saw bumper-to-bumper cars behind me - so than nobody was going too fast.
NOBODY wants to see an F-bod damaged, and I assume nobody wanted it prior to this weekend. Critters we can't do much about. Everything else is within the scope of participant's control, and group protocol.
Having fun is the reason we do things with our cars, and the ending of the Cruise was no fun whatsoever.

I would like to thank everybody who participated for their comments, and those who also added constructive criticism. Hearing from the speed freaks who often tell us they do 100+ in residential zones on Hwy 100, but are now chiming in about what they don't know are not impressing, and not helping here.

[som2002]

Being the hardcore drag racer i am, i dont really get into windy roads much in the first place... they make me have "un easy" feelings, especially when being pushed to go as fast as you can to avoid others from eating your ass and avoid confrontation from those riding behind you because you simply go to slow for them because of limitation of your car and or driving ability.

This was not a good choice on behalf of the planners, knowing these roads we were on is one thing, i did notice ALOT of out of state plates and these people are very much newbies to these roads.

This is all speaking out of my opinion of course and im entitled to it...
Frankly im pretty distraut about all this and i dont really care if people carry a bad attiude against me for what im writing about this... it has to be said!!

But when you get lots of amatuer drivers on top of each other, fueled by fear of someone bitching them out because them selves or the car they are is not up to the task in an uncontroled enviroment and basically giving them a crash coarse in pushing their cars to the limit and telling them to drive as quickly as possible through the curves, roll through stop signs and diss-obey speed limits, all this is the catalyst for disaster.

My self and Heather met up with Zach prior and even during the cruise he was always a couple cars ahead... needless to say if i would have stayed in it long enough and saw this go down in person i would have gone fu-cking balistic for Zachs behalf!! because obviously he was in no condtion at the time to be ringing peoples neck :mad: :guns1

This whole situation could have and can get very ugly from many legal stand points...

Granted everyone "kinda" new what they were getting into but i dont think NO ONE was expecting to driving balls out for hours on end around SE WI's most treturous roads, i welcomed the idea of this cruise because it was a chance to hang out with fellow F body enthusiast and enjoy the cars and enjoy scenery and what have you, not be stressed by many of my above mentioned points.

I feel the planners need to take one good long look at the planning of this event before and make it more safe and pleasureable for EVERYONE, not just people who like road racing... This needs to be done before some one else looses their car or even their life next time.

:.
I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I've never went on it all the years they've asked me to. It is basically an accident waiting to happen for all the above mentioned reasons. I'm not suprised that something finally happened but I'm more suprised that it took this long for something to happen. Thank God Zach wasn't seriosly injured but maybe this is a wake-up call for the rest of you. :S: Again, something needed to be said, and if people don't like me for saying it, it surely wouldn't be the first time. BRETT

[Crawlin]

let me reiterate that portion of my comment....

i was doing that to CATCH UP. I got stock between traffic and not knowing the whole route, i had to catch up. these things just happen on public roads. and it was just a long straight country road. i didn't like doing it, just was necessary since it was last minute that i came on the cruise and i was the only one in my car, so no navigator. the whole group doesn't do that the whole cruise. Although there were some times some people in the back were pushing a little harder then they had to. This was 2 years ago. maybe different protocol has been made since then. Damon just stated that the person would wait at the next turn, but on the one I was on, I know that was not happening, because many people got lost on the way to Mike's house for the cookout.

[Crawlin]

And Ron, it's been a long time and as fun as the cruises sound, they are just not my "thing" so i don't pay attention to specifics. If I remember right, i twas Darrin who's 30th SS was rear ended. Either way, that proves one of a couple things...
1.) speeds were too fast
2.) driver was following too closely
3.) drivers were not paying attention
4.) driver's didn't know the route

Either way, it was an accident. And for you to say that a MOVING f-body wasn't involved is stupid as hell. Why don't you get more specific and just say that "no NBM '98 Z28's have been injured ever on a cruise".

[y2kws6]

I have been on almost all the cruisees except for the last couple due to different reasons.

Personally I think it is the drivers fault if somnething happens to them...Hear me out.

1. They have the ability to accuire the map of the cruise ahead of time from point to point with times of arrival and departures.
2. They have the choice to go the speed that they are comfortable with. If someone behind doesn't like it, tough. They can go around.
3. They take the responsibility to follow at a safe distance.

I am sorry for zack and what happened, but it was not an organizers fault for a accident that happened by zack mistakenly going too fast for conditions. That accident could have happened anytime anywhere. That is the main problem that happens at the RA event and the drivers know it; "I was just try to get a little more out of it and it was just a little too much"

I will stand by with the statement:
It is the drivers ability to take control of a situation, not rely on someone else to do it for them.

If they believe that the person behind them is a danger to them; let them pass and you(the driver) can control the senerio themselves.

Dan <-- Will be at the next cruise with the wife and kids if available.

[som2002]

I guess I just don't understand the word "Cruise". Every car event cruise I've ever been to/read about is just a casual cruise to show off your pride and joy and to get with others that share the same idea. More of a rolling car show where instead of looking at a parked showcar, you actually get to hear the rumble of the exhaust etc. I don't understand why it still can't be fun just getting everybody together and just going on a lesiurely(sp) scenic weekend cruise. Or at least don't call it a "cruise" because that definately is not what I and I'm sure many others think of as a cruise. Something you can take the whole family out to. If you still have the need to want to push the limits of your vehicle, I really don't see the point in doing it in a whole pack of cars with the same intent. That'd be something more that you should be doing all by yourself, when you are not putting multiple lives and vehicles in danger. Or better yet, do it all legal at a Road America type event. Again, just one guys opinion and I'm entitled to it.

[BAD LS1]

Yeah but you cant avoid every situation... not EVERYONE can drive like a mofo in intense situations like others can. So why put these people into these situations and just assume that its all good they can handle them selves. Doing this sorta thing at RA is one thing.. its a sanctioned course, there is saftey personel everywhere, and alot less trees at the roads edge.

Yes the driver is responsible for their own actions but unless you screen each driver and make them pass a test knowing they can be trusted to recover from a spin or slide w/o incident they i would say these wild ass cannonball run things would be acceptable.

You cant do nothing about on coming traffic, predestrians, wild life, road debris, un even road surfaces, equipment failure,the list goes on... all of which can lead to very bad situations very quickly.

If these roads were traveled at less brisk of pace i think it would have been more enjoy able, but i for one have always been a little nervous about somebody doing mach 3 behind me around turns and coming over hills with stops signs just feet below the hill...

Its a shame one of our beloved F body's had to become a total loss for this learning experience and luckily we didnt have to learn from a loss of life.

Im not trying to look at all the negatives of this event but something this go around made me take a very personal note and its my choice to defend how i feel and be very vocal about it.

[93RedDevilZ28]

I am sorry for zack and what happened, but it was not an organizers fault for a accident that happened by zack mistakenly going too fast for conditions. That accident could have happened anytime anywhere. That is the main problem that happens at the RA event and the drivers know it; "I was just try to get a little more out of it and it was just a little too much"

I will stand by with the statement:
It is the drivers ability to take control of a situation, not rely on someone else to do it for them.

If they believe that the person behind them is a danger to them; let them pass and you(the driver) can control the senerio themselves.

Dan <-- Will be at the next cruise with the wife and kids if available.

Whoa buddy, let's take it down a step....Let me make it clear: MY ACCIDENT WAS NOT DUE TO SPEEDING, I WAS NOT GOING TOO FAST. The reason for what happened was gravel, which snapped my rear end out from under me. As Chris stated earlier, this probably would have even happened if I was going 5 under. It was a freak thing that happened, and I don't want other peoples' issues with the speed of the cruise being associated with what happened to me.

I'm more concerned with the conditions of the roads we are driving on, rather than the speed. I don't like the gravel because of the danger is posses, not because it might ding my car up. I saw several cars, as well as myself, get squirrly because of it, and we weren't pushing it at all.

[DamonZ28]

I'm more concerned with the conditions of the roads we are driving on, rather than the speed. I don't like the gravel because of the danger is posses, not because it might ding my car up. I saw several cars, as well as myself, get squirrly because of it, and we weren't pushing it at all.

Regarding the gravel situation - particularly on the section of Kettle Moraine drive that was very twisty and heavily wooded - there isn't much we can do other than keep your eyes on the road and watch out for it. The heavy rains leading up to the cruise deposited that gravel on the road - most of it wasn't there when we scouted for the cruise.

I don't mean to say you weren't watching the road - I know that gravel can sometimes be as difficult to spot as black ice in the winter.

I do know that I don't like those first few curves on Trout Spring Rd, where the accident happened. They can be difficult to navigate, because they're not banked at all - maybe even slightly banked on the wrong side. I think we'll avoid that road in the future.

[DamonZ28]

I feel the planners need to take one good long look at the planning of this event before and make it more safe and pleasureable for EVERYONE, not just people who like road racing... This needs to be done before some one else looses their car or even their life next time.

No, your post was not out of line at all. I am disappointed and embarrassed that it has turned into this. One of the MFBA members was shocked when he read the MFBA thread about this - he thought the 2001 spring cruise was very much a "Sunday drive" cruise, and it was. It's just gotten out of hand, and we're working to bring it back into line. If it's not your bag of tea anyway, so to speak, then I can understand that this is very upsetting.

Read the discussion on the MFBA board regarding upcoming changes, and feel free to add your .02, here or there. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD FIRST before posting your comments. I have changed my stance on some of the issues that I started out with.

http://forum.fbody.us/showthread.php?t=29924&page=1&pp=40

[Yooformula]

Damon, I always thought the cruise well organized and a blast to be in. I never felt pressured to drive any different than I already would/do. I might drive slower on the roads that I didnt know but not by much. Regrettably I didnt get to go to the last 2 cruises but speaking from memory of the 3 that I have gone on they didnt seem to be risky to me. I even took my wife once and she loved but then again she is an agressive driver also but as we stayed to the back of the pack at a slower rate I didnt feel the need to push it too nor was I pressured to do so. I think the changes you are making can only make an already awesome event that much better but I wouldnt get down on yourself about it, you do a great job with them and I think alot of people forget that. "Hindsight is 20/20" as the saying goes now that something happened everyone has something to say. Pretty funny actually considering how most people fly to get from one hangout to another, whether its hwy 100 cruising, oscars or bk. Bottom line is nobody got seriously hurt, Zach is alive and doing well and some changes will come out of all of this to hopefully make it more enjoyable for others as well now.

My .02 worth and opinion.

[Heat Seeker WS6]

Unless if you were on this particular cruise, you just don't know how this one went. I have done several cruises and none were this "brisk".

I don't believe speed was the issue with Zachs accident. If Zach would have been going faster into that turn, his car would have ended up in a different spot on that hill, not just slid along the side of the road like it did. His rear right tire left the pavement, the car hooked around causing it to become perpendicular to the road and then it slid parallel to the road before hitting the embankment caushing him to roll over.

[Yooformula]

Unless if you were on this particular cruise, you just don't know how this one went. I have done several cruises and none were this "brisk".

I don't believe speed was the issue with Zachs accident. If Zach would have been going faster into that turn, his car would have ended up in a different spot on that hill, not just slid along the side of the road like it did. His rear right tire left the pavement, the car hooked around causing it to become perpendicular to the road and then it slid parallel to the road before hitting the embankment caushing him to roll over.

Holy smokes! That sounds pretty farked up.

[Sexy83TA]

I guess I just don't understand the word "Cruise". Every car event cruise I've ever been to/read about is just a casual cruise to show off your pride and joy and to get with others that share the same idea. More of a rolling car show where instead of looking at a parked showcar, you actually get to hear the rumble of the exhaust etc. I don't understand why it still can't be fun just getting everybody together and just going on a lesiurely(sp) scenic weekend cruise. Or at least don't call it a "cruise" because that definately is not what I and I'm sure many others think of as a cruise. Something you can take the whole family out to. If you still have the need to want to push the limits of your vehicle, I really don't see the point in doing it in a whole pack of cars with the same intent. That'd be something more that you should be doing all by yourself, when you are not putting multiple lives and vehicles in danger. Or better yet, do it all legal at a Road America type event. Again, just one guys opinion and I'm entitled to it.


I think that just sumed up my opinion pretty well. When its described as a cruise and nobody ever really explains the intensity of it to anyone else. I got the impression that it was more or less a casual type of deal. I was taken off guard I guess you could say.

[02hawk796]

Heather, it would appear you have better instincts than I.
Apparently I have misjudged some people.
I have seen the light.
You are correct in your assessment.
I was wrong.
I am sorry. I regret my ill-advised endorsements.

Hope to see you around again somethime.