Harley Buyout?

[nismodave]

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/03/15/daily18.html

[Feature Pony]

I wouldn't put it by this new CEO in charge. He knows nothing about bikes, he cut the shit out of Johnson controls so bad that the new Johnson controls CEO is scrambling to get things in order and it looks like he is doing the same thing with harley. F***ing Crooks if you ask me!

[Karps TA]

The previous people in charge didn't do the company too many favors either. Instead of depending on record growth every year, and spending billions on yearly b-day celebrations, they should have been planning a little more for the future should the growth stop or slow down. They got caught up in the boom like nearly everyone else did. Difference being their product is very much a toy, and it's a toy that doesn't change that much, so people don't need to buy a new one every year or two. They keep wanting to get into the new emerging world wide markets, but just don't have the price points to do it at.

Atleast my opinion from the outside looking in.

[Neal Steffek]

The previous people in charge didn't do the company too many favors either. Instead of depending on record growth every year, and spending billions on yearly b-day celebrations, they should have been planning a little more for the future should the growth stop or slow down. They got caught up in the boom like nearly everyone else did. Difference being their product is very much a toy, and it's a toy that doesn't change that much, so people don't need to buy a new one every year or two. They keep wanting to get into the new emerging world wide markets, but just don't have the price points to do it at.

Atleast my opinion from the outside looking in.

That pretty much sums it up. I don't see HD being around in 10 years to be honest. At best it will be like they were in the 70's early 80's when there were hardly open and hanging by a thread.

[0TransAm0]

^^wow.. i think thwy will be stronger than ever in 10 years.. yeah times are tuff but people are still spending.. in 10 years when the shit is back to normal or better people will be trading in there old bike and buying new..and no i don't own a harley...yet.

[wrath]

They sell an image and their product costs a lot of money. It's all discretionary and no one has $20k to spend on a whim. Their target population is aging fast and they've lost a ton of money also.

The current management is in the business of making money not leaving behind a legacy of a strong company.

[jbiscuit]

I agree Harley over the years has spent money carelessly but like said already, who didn't. With a lot of companies today, it has little to do about the actual product and more about the stock price. I hope this buyout doesn't go through. Its bad for the company, and bad for Milwaukee

[T-Bag]

^^wow.. i think thwy will be stronger than ever in 10 years.. yeah times are tuff but people are still spending.. in 10 years when the shit is back to normal or better people will be trading in there old bike and buying new..and no i don't own a harley...yet.

Harley's rider base is slowly dieing off, the newer generation aren't buying the overpriced pieces of garbage when they can get a nice jap cruiser for half the price with twice the engineering. This generation doesn't give a shit about their "legacy". I've seen more Shadows and Intruder's down the road every year it seems.

Not saying EVERYONE feels this way but it seems to be the general consensus.

[Karps TA]

I think they'll be around. I just think they need to either figure out a way to make their bikes affordable to more people - therefore sell more. OR be a niche company and be happy with that. Create high demand and lower production so you can keep the bikes at X amount. Nothing wrong with being sold out for the year. The people who really want a HD bike will either wait or figure a way to get one. Their enthusiasts are pretty hardcore and have shown they are willing to pay the price to buy anything with that logo on it.

They had a perfect storm a couple years ago, people could easily get money, and there was alot of excitement for the 100th anniversary. IMO they need to stop milking the anniversary stuff. Atleast cut down to every 10 years, make the moment mean something. I can understand the desire to cash in on the t-shirt market, but Harley people will buy the shirts every year regardless.

[jbiscuit]

^ and for me, I would rather have a vintage Harley over a new one anyways. I love the older bikes.

[Neal Steffek]

No one wants a new HD. And people who ride them are made fun of. It is going to take a miracle to come back to even a fraction of what they were 12 years ago.

[97z2801ss]

My dad herd these rumors last week, that company is really screwed up but the buyout might not be so bad, as the new CEO isnt doing much but collectiong his big ass pay check, Harley may be around in 10 years but with the way things are going they wont be in wisconsin.

[lordairgtar]

No one wants a new HD. And people who ride them are made fun of. It is going to take a miracle to come back to even a fraction of what they were 12 years ago.
That's a moot point Neal. People on Ninjas get made fun of too. Depends on the side of the fence you are on. That said, Either HD changes to modern style technology to get the younger demographic, or the bikes will be made in China. Most of the accessories and goodies you buy for them are Chinese anyway.

[Al]

No one wants a new HD. And people who ride them are made fun of. It is going to take a miracle to come back to even a fraction of what they were 12 years ago.

No kidding on the butt end of all motorcycle jokes. Then again, there is still a stigma of the memories of HD AMF engines.

12 years ago, HD made the mistake of judging bike sales by dealership orders and not showroom sales. On paper, they looked good, but the real world the numbers caught up after a year or two.

Some might recall when a person had to wait a year to get the specific bike they wanted. This was not due to a backlog of factory production, but the way HD sold bikes. Truth is that there were plenty of bikes on the showroom floor that jsut were not moving.


I think HD needs to do some additional updating to their lineup. The air cooled bikes are nice, but it should eventually be relegated to just the Sportster. That engine in the Vrod is amazingly reliable, powerful, and efficient. It should be in every heavy cruiser. If I worked for HD, I'd put that engine in the Road King as fast as I could.

[Al]

That said, Either HD changes to modern style technology to get the younger demographic,

Then again, other than the use of air cooling on most of the bikes, HD is up to date on all other technologies.

[Neal Steffek]

When I saw this eps of SP I almost pee'd my pants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hQN4Amaeg&feature=related

[FoxStang]

Sounds like there's some bike-curious people in this thread...

[05caddyext]

The statement that a few years ago when people had to wait and there being bikes on the showroom floor is totally false. The dealerships were paying top dollar for used bikes, often not allowing you to even purchase a new bike without a trade. There were many models such as the fatboy that just weren't available. My dad waited over a year for a fatboy because he didn't have a trade in. He had cash to make a deal but there were more interested in having bikes on their floor than money at the time. Since that time they have ramped up production right at the wrong time when the economy took a dive. But the notion that there were plenty of bikes on the showroom floor is just false.

[juicedimpss]

Im not sure what to think about the whole thing.


I will say to those who say it is overpriced and under-engineered..remember the whole unions/higher paying jobs part of the whole equation. If you ever go to the factory for the tour or can somehow get to walk the halls of one of the other plants you wikll understand the amount of manpower they employ.The money has gotta come from somewhere. They have a target customer demographic,and its NOT 19yo kids.

IMO it would be devastating to the Milwaukee area job market if HD were to fold up or move all operations somewhere else.

[Crawlin]

FUnny, I see just as many 25-35y/o riders coming into service as I do the 36-up crowd.

So younger people are buying them. If I wasn't in school, there'd be a '09 Street Glide in my garage along with the sportbike.

A "bike enthusiast" is a bike enthusiast and doesn't make fun of one brand or the other. There are plenty on both sides that do, but there are also alot that don't and will actually compliment my bike when it's outside the service doors.

I hope they stay in WI cause like Ron said, there's alot of people that would be severely impacted by this move if it happens.

[CATNHAT]

I think HD needs to do some additional updating to their lineup. The air cooled bikes are nice, but it should eventually be relegated to just the Sportster. That engine in the Vrod is amazingly reliable, powerful, and efficient. It should be in every heavy cruiser. If I worked for HD, I'd put that engine in the Road King as fast as I could.

I looked at a V-Rod muscle the other day, candy apple red, nice looking bike. But I have been concerned about the sound of that engine--not the traditional Harley rumble. I youtubed some V-rod exhaust videos, doesnt sound great to me, sounds kind of like a helicopter???

NZvLvXD2Y-I

Putting that engine in other bikes would be good for performance, not sure what it would do to sales? Also, a Harley engine designed by Porsche? Some harley guys I know dont like that b/c it is not a "pure" Harley.

[Moparjim]

I can't believe some of the business decisions they have made the last few years. The Buell thing still has me scratching my head. They JUST spent jillions buying Buell, then jillions more on engineering and retooling the plant for the newer bikes just within the last few years, and jillions winning the championship with it, then they just close it down. They didn't even sell it for anything, they basically just closed it and fire saled the tools and equipment. Makes no sense, they already had spent the money on engineering, tooling, etc. even if sales are slow why not keep making em and selling em to try to recover SOME of that huge investment.

[T-Bag]

FUnny, I see just as many 25-35y/o riders coming into service as I do the 36-up crowd.

So younger people are buying them. If I wasn't in school, there'd be a '09 Street Glide in my garage along with the sportbike.

A "bike enthusiast" is a bike enthusiast and doesn't make fun of one brand or the other. There are plenty on both sides that do, but there are also alot that don't and will actually compliment my bike when it's outside the service doors.

I hope they stay in WI cause like Ron said, there's alot of people that would be severely impacted by this move if it happens.

You're seeing this because we live in a niche market. If this was thecase everywhere harley wouldn't be near the shitter.
I generally make fun of people who are idiots on all bikes...I like the way a lot of harley's are designed asthetically...but their engineering is way outdated aned price point is absoutely ridiculous for the little you get.
It would suck to see harley fail, but they do need to make a change.

p.s. I'd love to have a nice 02 or so heritage softail if they werent 12 grand.

[Feature Pony]

It boils down to the CEO in charge, if they don't know what there product is or what it is used for they could care less what the cut as long as they get the bonus of $$ in their pockets!! Pretty much every company in the US has this mind set CEO of what can the company GIVE ME, CAUSE I WANT MORE!!! I will call every CEO in AMERICA a CROOK, their Ideas are we can get cheaper workers in Mexico or China, it wont effect me I already have millions, SCREW EVERYBODY ELSE!

Buell was a step in the right direction but this CEO only wants his money he can give 2 shits about the company and Wisconsin, for all we know he is probably a FIB and hates Wisconsin anyways!

[juicedimpss]

I can't believe some of the business decisions they have made the last few years. The Buell thing still has me scratching my head. They JUST spent jillions buying Buell, then jillions more on engineering and retooling the plant for the newer bikes just within the last few years, and jillions winning the championship with it, then they just close it down. They didn't even sell it for anything, they basically just closed it and fire saled the tools and equipment. Makes no sense, they already had spent the money on engineering, tooling, etc. even if sales are slow why not keep making em and selling em to try to recover SOME of that huge investment.

they didnt even consider selling buell off because it used alot of H-D proprietary engineering and r&d. for harley it was better to dissolve the company

[Crawlin]

You're seeing this because we live in a niche market. If this was thecase everywhere harley wouldn't be near the shitter.
I generally make fun of people who are idiots on all bikes...I like the way a lot of harley's are designed asthetically...but their engineering is way outdated aned price point is absoutely ridiculous for the little you get.
It would suck to see harley fail, but they do need to make a change.

p.s. I'd love to have a nice 02 or so heritage softail if they werent 12 grand.

When we stopped at the dealership in Mississippi, it was the same reaction. When we stopped at the one in Memphis, it was the same thing.

It's not just THIS area. But I understand why someone would think that.

The Buell thing we saw coming for a couple months before. They had a contract with my father's construction company to build a new building that joined all process of their manufacturering. The new CEO got in, they stopped that idea. They still had to pay though ;)

[WickedSix]

well if u worked for them u were scratching ur head a bit earlier...

first they bought a controlling share in MV Agusta another niche brand in the sport bike world that offered acceptional motorcycles

if you want to see the fate of harley i'd look at the buell product for an example. the v-twins buell used in the XB lineup were harley engines with as much technology as you could cram into an engine concept that was nearly a century old. It held its own in a very selective market but couldn't compete with other motorcycles out there. With the rotax engine came a big departure. The 1125r, 1125cr and 1125rr motorcycles represented the most capable motorcycles the company ever built...and one of the most sucessful..and the biggest part on that bike that was an HD part was the damn battery. Thats why Eric has the racing business with those bikes because that was the future of the company and he knows it. I have no doubt sometime in the future you will see Buell motorcycle return to the road market and it will not be with HD components.

Originally the v-rod engine was being developed for the buell motorcycle... HD engineers got their hands on it and made it more stylized and portly and subsequently made it completely unusable for what buell needed. They kept choosing style over substance because thats their target market. HD doesn't build the fastest bikes, the most powerful, they build a bike that caters to a dream, a lifestyle and they are adept at making that work for them. They need to reach out to other markets and make the bike affordable yes, but in doing so they risk their 'members only' appeal. It is a difficult balance they have to maintain, but they need to find a way to keep the company viable

[juicedimpss]

HD doesn't build the fastest bikes, the most powerful, they build a bike that caters to a dream, a lifestyle and they are adept at making that work for them. They need to reach out to other markets and make the bike affordable yes, but in doing so they risk their 'members only' appeal. It is a difficult balance they have to maintain, but they need to find a way to keep the company viable

and with that i have taken you off my "ignore" list

:thumbsup

[-stew-]

You're seeing this because we live in a niche market. If this was thecase everywhere harley wouldn't be near the shitter.
I generally make fun of people who are idiots on all bikes...I like the way a lot of harley's are designed asthetically...but their engineering is way outdated aned price point is absoutely ridiculous for the little you get.
It would suck to see harley fail, but they do need to make a change.

p.s. I'd love to have a nice 02 or so heritage softail if they werent 12 grand.


I totally agree. Except I'd have an XR1200 Sportster if they weren't 12 grand poser machines.


HD really needs to step up their game. The group of people who are willing to pay tomorrows prices for yesterdays technology is getting smaller. It's hard to drum up sales when you've been building the same bike for 40 years. Why would someone buy an oh'10 YadaYadaGlide, if it is essentially the same as thier Y2K YadaYadaGlide? I don't want to see them leave Milwaukee, I don't want them to die. I want them to build a bike I want. Fuck image. Fuck lifestyle. Fuck wearing a costume. I don't want that; I want a cool motorcycle. You've proved you can build sex on wheels, now just build a competitive bike, comparatively priced and I'll buy one!

And show me a dealership with a floor covered with bikes, walls draped in chrome and speed parts, a stand with helmets, a rack of jackets and gloves and maybe three t-shirts. I want the the guy at the service desk to have dirty hands and a cigarette in his mouth. He should be a lil bit crabby, too. And the bench in the waiting area should be a seat out of a van. If I want clothes I'll go to Kohls, if I want dog toys, I'll go to PetWorld. I don't want this shit at my bike dealer. They need to stop hemorrhaging money every five years to pat them selves on the ass.


I want to want a HD, I really do. But I just can't get behind the company as it stands or what it offers.

[Exitspeed]

Man if HD had something like the Thruxton (cafe inspired) I'd become a fan.

And the reason why is because in a couple years I'd like to buy a newer bike and I just don't think a Japanese sport bike is my thing. I'd like to buy a HD, but other then that one Sportser that comes super blacked out they don't have anything that interests me.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/12/triumph_thruxton_se.jpg
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/thruxton04101805.jpg

[lordairgtar]

Harley years ago had a cafe racer type bike that had a blacked out engine and siamesed exhaust to even out the pulses. It had a small seat with fairing too. I remember it next door to my work in Santa Barbara in the window of the HD store. Orange and black of course.
Might be making a new one...
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Harley-XLCR-1000-Caf%C3%A9-Racer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rumors/harley-davidson-cafe-racer-rumor/&h=465&w=720&sz=39&tbnid=zTPrhZN9WLvscM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dharley%2Bcafe%2Bracer&usg=__FMGSVoDc4oGWCJEIhN_wU_qQZcI=&ei=02KhS5qNGtGUtgfBy9nyBw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&ved=0CAoQ9QEwAg

[pOrk]

I like old Harleys and what they stood for THEN, not now. They need to change their image to pull the young crowds in. I knew a few guys that have harleys, and a TON that own imported motorcycles. You just get MORE. My uncle Jeff had motorcycles his entire life, and turning the bed at 40 he decided it was time to buy a brand new Harley Davidson. Not even a year passed, he sold it cause he HATED IT. It was a full dresser, ALL the bells and whistles. If you asked him why, he would tell you its NOTHING compared to his 6500 dollar out the door Honda. THAT, is ridiculous.

They treat their employees grand, and they pay WELL. There is no doubt about it.

The Harley Anniversarys crack me up, dopes clad in brand new leathers that ride 100 or so miles a year. This isn't what Harley Davidson used to be, they are just too expensive. I'll sport a shovel any day of the week, pissing oil and all. But you wont catch me on a new Harley.

[lilws6]

I want a sport bike for play and a V-rod muscle to sit right next to it. i rode one and think its incredibly comfortable for what it was. the motors do sound a little funny but i think i could get over that. if i had the money i would have one already but there not too badly priced. is is less of a harley i guess thats what pulls me toward it. all black or flat black would be my choice i'm not all about the bling factor any way.

[Slow Joe]

The v-rod is a bit different because it's designed by Porsche and Harley, it's not just your plane jane Harley...

I'm not a Harley fan as it is, however I hope they stay open and in Milwaukee just for the sake of the local economy...

[97z2801ss]

I Just did a SWOT analaysis on HD for a Class I have and many of your statements are true they have alot of work to do, but they could expand with better overseas marketing and gearing stuff towards younger people and more females, The company has alot of strengths but when 42% of your buyers are previous hd owners and those owners are dying off or switching to cheaper brands it will be tough for them.

One of the weakness's I found was that they have an over confident president and Ceo, and they are relying on repurchase buyers way too much. They have room for expansion though like India and Europe and even Asian markets so they have alot of opportunity there. But as they loose there biggest market share of riders (america) to foriegn companys its gonna be hard for them too keep paying people what they pay and such being here in wisconsin when it can be done cheaper else where.