Toyota tells dealers to stop selling!! [Archive]

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07ROUSHSTG3

01-26-2010, 08:04 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35086922/ns/business-autos/?gt1=43001

this is getting crazy :rolf.

first there is a problem, then there isn't, then its the mats, then it isn;t, then there is no problem, now its the pedals?!?! i can;t keep it straight. this is the even worse than the engine sludge issue, or the frame rusting issue, or the minivan door issue.

way to go toyota :thumbsup. can't cover this one up i guess.

70challenger452

01-26-2010, 08:07 PM

hahaha, I always get a good laugh when ever I hear the toyota radio commercials where they guy is like "my tundra it's so solid and so we'll built" haha, fuckin idiots.

jbiscuit

01-26-2010, 08:37 PM

Memphis

01-26-2010, 08:50 PM

to me, this is a smart move. They are taking reponsibility with the issue until it can be remedied. Yes it will hurt their sales for month of January but its better than shelling out millions of dollars in lawsuits from cars crashing due to the faulty gas pedals issue.

You guys laughing at an automaker actually wanting to fix a problem before putting another car on the road kinda cracks me up :rolf

Remember back with GM had the pick-up trucks with the side-saddle gas tanks? They knew it was an issue and trucks were exploding in crashes all over the country but were still selling them on lots daily.

This seems like a responsible, safe-thinking solution to me!

so says the toyota owner. :goof

BOSS LX

01-26-2010, 08:57 PM

Buy American! Cars going wot at any time is pretty serious!:rolf

jbiscuit

01-26-2010, 08:59 PM

....and still driving my faulty floor mat and catastrophic gas pedal-infected truck every day without a hint of issue! If they want to replace a potential faulty part, so be it. BCM is just full of posters that want to see the company fail when they are trying to make right on the issue. I just think think its quite comical.

My WRX had a recall on weak lift gate shocks and a front seat bolt. WHAT HORROR!!!!! I hope the company goes bankrupt!!! :rolf

BOSS LX

01-26-2010, 09:06 PM

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2738/toyotamovingforward.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/toyotamovingforward.jpg/)

0TransAm0

01-26-2010, 09:11 PM

Lmao ^^ glad i didn't buy a tundra when i wanted to.. makes me want the GMC even more...

07ROUSHSTG3

01-26-2010, 09:16 PM

Yooformula

01-26-2010, 09:22 PM

Actually J, is it really that responsible that they came out with excuses and tried to cover up the issue blaming it something else? Auto manufacturers dont usually do massive recalls on vehicles unless the potential suits or loss of life are too high. If they were really responsible, IMO they would have done this a couple of years ago when the problems first arose, this didnt get big until the cop and his family died while on the phone with the police and it made the news!

Reverend Cooper

01-26-2010, 09:38 PM

Reverend Cooper

01-26-2010, 09:43 PM

This is part of the article no one is reading.

There are 2.3 million vehicles involved in the recall, which was announced last week. Toyota has said it was unaware of any accidents or injuries due to the pedal problems associated with the recall, but could not rule them out for sure.

So until it is proved that it has injured someone I would say they are going over and above by fixing them all regardless.
American car companys should be looking into this also they use the same setups and may even be useing same or similar units. Time will tell.

Windsors 03 Cobra

01-26-2010, 09:52 PM

I'm not a Yota fan and know that everyone designs some junk and think they are doing a good. Must be a helluva problem tho.

So is a bad design out of tokyo or did billy bob jimmy joe @ Denso of Shelbyville spit a dip a chaw into 3 million servo motors ?
I do think Yota is building some good looking/running/driving cars and I'm a hardcore domestic fan. Its easy to see why Yota has become what they have. I

Yooformula

01-26-2010, 09:56 PM

Coop this isnt JUST a recall, its a suspension of production as well. Not just dont sell but DONT BUILD too! Thats fucking huge! IMO they have to know something to halt complete production on 8 different models and not have any idea for how long!

"It was unclear how long Toyota would suspend production of the vehicles. In an e-mail to employees, company officials said, "we don't know yet how long this pause will last but we will make every effort to resume production soon."

If it was just a floor mat, they could remove all of the floor mats for the recall, this is something else imo and they know people have been hurt/killed. If a floor mat got stuck UNDER the pedal, wouldnt it be pushing the pedal UP making it hard to push down to accelerate? I could see a floor mat being stuck on TOP of the pedal keeping it down...

"The announcement followed a larger recall months earlier of 4.2 million vehicles because of problems with gas pedals becoming trapped under floor mats, causing sudden acceleration. That problem was the cause of several crashes, including some fatalities."

Reverend Cooper

01-26-2010, 10:00 PM

As I get more info I will be able to yell you more ^ the suspension is happening because they dont want anymore vehicles sent out with a problem until they know its fixed. Once the issue is dixed they will start producing and selling again. why make more cars with the same pedal and send them on the road to be recalled,its already unsafe,selling or producing more that way would be reckless.
They are doing the right thing.

Yooformula

01-26-2010, 10:04 PM

can I get a deal on a floor model now?

Reverend Cooper

01-26-2010, 10:05 PM

once they fix is out we will be busy as fuck fixing on lot cars,not to mention customer cars.
No deals for you

OxmanWI

01-26-2010, 10:20 PM

01-26-2010, 10:46 PM

Buy American!

Do you mean "made in america" or "name from america"

01-26-2010, 10:47 PM

can I get a deal on a floor model now?

Maybe a floored model! :goof

Windsors 03 Cobra

01-26-2010, 10:52 PM

Do you mean "made in america" or "name from america"

American car company, every car company builds cars all over the world so dont talk about Fords from Mexico or Yotas from Indiana all thats crap is irrelevant. I dont know why people get so hung up on such stupid crap.
Many Ford fans would rather have a Ford build in Europe or Australia than In Detroit. :thumbsup
Ford and Yota build cars every place imaginable but Ford=American and Yota=Japan. KaFeesh ? :shades

Beagle

01-26-2010, 11:07 PM

they did not cover anything up,there are two seperate issues ,one with the mats,and one with the pedals.some cars will fall under both.
I laugh when people say buy american lol its a american produced part and supplier that is having the pedal issues.

Most people dont know that Coop. I should post a picture of the parts/materials used to fix both floor mats and gas pedals, all it consists of is a different clip that slides into the hole on the mat to keep it from sliding. Then the gas pedal recall we get 1/4 inch thick rubber squares and a weird looking foam piece. Oh and a dewalt sawzall to cut the pedals which only two of are technicians are allowed to use on cars :rolf. What really sucks for us is that we can not sell trailer hitches anymore for any model car. Turns out that the EPA says the cars are certified without the hitch installed and therefore changes the emissions on the car due to the extra weight. The hitches weigh 50 pounds haha :chair:. So it is now illegal for Lexus dealerships to install hitches. :flipoff2: the EPA.

Prince Valiant

01-26-2010, 11:19 PM

Hey, don't worry....according to consumer reports Ford came in second (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/sudden-unintended-acceleration-sua-analysis-2008-toyota-lexus-ford-gm.html) in the unintended acceleration sweepstake! They could catch up! Though I'd worry...chrysler is still in the game at third place! (I'm not sure lawsuits involving ford unintended acceleration has been resolved yet...it was scheduled to go to trial a few years back)

According to the consumer reports, of 2008 model cars 52 out of 2.2 million cars reportedly had the problem...so the risk is apparently a whopping 0.00236%

And yes, I'm aware of tragic cases that have involved death of families, the ederly, etc...but regardless, some form of driver error must be occuring. The simple fact of the matter is even if you CAN'T put the car in neutral, even if you CAN'T turn off the car, the brakes will overpower the engine. car and driver test this (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept) on several different vehicles, including a 540hp Rousch stage three Mustang and found no significant difference in braking distance.

Everyone is quick to jump on Toyota for this...as right now, NHSTA hasn't been able to confirm that there is a problem (nor have they've been able to rule out a problem either)...so I don't blame toyota when they say they haven't been able to find a problem/solution either. Everyone likes to act like they know what's going on (or worse, some conspiracy is going on), but the truth is they don't.

And if this does hurt Toyota sales, do you really think that's automatically good for ford or GM? What keeps these drivers from going to Honda? Mazda? Nissan? Do you think US jobs aren't on the line here...from dealers, to mechanics, to suppliers, and manufacturing, this could hurt a lot of US families...and it could prove to do so unnecessarily. (and not accusing anyone on this board...but on other forums I've read, much of the toyota bashing has on occasion seemed stridently xenophobic)

lordairgtar

01-27-2010, 12:05 AM

t
Remember back with GM had the pick-up trucks with the side-saddle gas tanks? They knew it was an issue and trucks were exploding in crashes all over the country but were still selling them on lots daily.

I remember those days. Seems there was a truck exploding everyday....NOT. The tests by the news people that started all that admitted later that they rigged the tanks with explosives. BTW, I don't think the issue at hand affects the trucks Toyota makes, just the Corrola, Matrix, and the RAV4.

lordairgtar

01-27-2010, 12:07 AM

KaFeesh ? :shades
Who is this KaFeesh?

FoxStang

01-27-2010, 12:23 AM

I remember those days. Seems there was a truck exploding everyday....NOT. The tests by the news people that started all that admitted later that they rigged the tanks with explosives. BTW, I don't think the issue at hand affects the trucks Toyota makes, just the Corrola, Matrix, and the RAV4.
What about the Pontiac Vibe, I know they're built at different plants, but isn't it mechanically identical to the Matrix?

WilliamZ

01-27-2010, 01:18 AM

Now...if everyone would have bought a Ford in the first place we wouldn't be having this problem! :D

No, they would have a shitload of other problems :rolf:rolf

88Nightmare

01-27-2010, 01:48 AM

floaters

01-27-2010, 02:02 AM

so where does GM stand on sticking gas pedal problems?

theyre not running due to fuel pump issues :thumbsup

88Nightmare

01-27-2010, 02:46 AM

or intake gasket failure

letsrunem

01-27-2010, 03:44 AM

Honda ftw!

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 06:04 AM

As much as I dislike the automaker they are doing the right thing, people’s lives are at risk and they are trying to fix the problem. Now...if everyone would have bought a Ford in the first place we wouldn't be having this problem! :D

everyone forget the Ford Exploders,the burt into flames pinto and steering columns that catch on fire,give me a break.everyones longterm memory here sucks obviously lol

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 06:10 AM

I remember those days. Seems there was a truck exploding everyday....NOT. The tests by the news people that started all that admitted later that they rigged the tanks with explosives. BTW, I don't think the issue at hand affects the trucks Toyota makes, just the Corrola, Matrix, and the RAV4.

incorrect,there are 8 models tacoma,sequoia and tundra on the list,
and yeah Ford,Chrysler and I believe GM all have lawsuits pending on unintended accel. so it will be interesting to see what happens,Im sure bleeding heart Obama motor co will do the same lol

07ROUSHSTG3

01-27-2010, 07:15 AM

i love the CNN type spin. i think toyota must have hired a clinton.

"thats from 11-4-09 its been proven and stated by the nhtsa organization that there is NO problems with the acceleraors.they are now contacting the news companies and poss. Lawsuits due to false accusations."

coops quote from this thread:
http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42675&highlight=floor

animal

01-27-2010, 07:23 AM

BCM is just full of posters that want to see the company fail when they are trying to make right on the issue.

Is this a new revelation? ;)

07ROUSHSTG3

01-27-2010, 07:42 AM

i think that the government should mandate that all cars go back to "throttle by cable". fuck all this electronic shit, LOL!

jbiscuit

01-27-2010, 07:44 AM

everyone forget the Ford Exploders,the burt into flames pinto and steering columns that catch on fire,give me a break.everyones longterm memory here sucks obviously lol

EXACTLY! As much as BCM would like to see Toyota fail, they won't. If they can afford to shut down production until the problem is found and fixed, they have plenty of loot in the bank I'm afraid. I'll stand behind my original post that they are being responsible. No automaker can recall every vehicle sold everytime there is 1 issue. You guys are ridiculous. That's not a conspiracy or a coverup...thats being practical. Once they see a pattern of X-number of vehicles with the same problem, then they will research the issue and if the results are confirmed, then you may see a recall on it. The radio in my truck would go bonkers and shut off when I bought it. Maybe they should have recalled 300,000 Tacomas just because mine had a problem. :rolf

All joking aside, what do you prophets of knowledge and haters of Toyota suggest they should have done differently then if this is not the best way to handle the situation? :rolleyes:

07ROUSHSTG3

01-27-2010, 07:56 AM

All joking aside, what do you prophets of knowledge and haters of Toyota suggest they should have done differently then if this is not the best way to handle the situation? :rolleyes:

the problem has been going on for over 5 years. IMO, instead of trying to deny it, falsely claim that the government found "no issues" during its investigation, and pretending like the story would just go away like the others, they should have taken care of it 5 years ago. instead they let the problem snowball into stopping sales, halting production, and looking like a bunch of dumbasses.

great article. old and it doesn't have the last fiascos, but still worth the read. i love the comments.
http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-denied-customer-complaints-on-sudden-acceleration-problem-for-more-than-5-years.aspx?googleid=274028

another one:
http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/inaccurate-and-misleading-statements-on-toyota-sudden-acceleration-problem.aspx?googleid=274000

07ROUSHSTG3

01-27-2010, 07:58 AM

The radio in my truck would go bonkers and shut off when I bought it. Maybe they should have recalled 300,000 Tacomas just because mine had a problem. :rolf

generally recalls are brought on because of safety issues. this wouldn't qualify :thumbsup

animal

01-27-2010, 08:11 AM

Once they see a pattern of X-number of vehicles with the same problem, then they will research the issue and if the results are confirmed, then you may see a recall on it.

Incorrect statement.

A basic fight club knowledge would tell you the correct formula:

"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

:thumbsup

:goof

Exitspeed

01-27-2010, 09:29 AM

This won't deter me from buying a Toyota vehicle in the future. I'm sure people still have GM cars with 3800 series engines despite them starting themselves on fire. Or Explorers even though they killed people during the whole tire issue.

07ROUSHSTG3

01-27-2010, 09:30 AM

Exitspeed

01-27-2010, 09:32 AM

you should go buy one today!

oh wait...you can't :rolf

I said in the future. ;)

jbiscuit

01-27-2010, 09:54 AM

the problem has been going on for over 5 years.

You are right. They have been hiding the facts so BCM wouldn't find out about it. CONSPIRACY!! :alcoholic

animal

01-27-2010, 09:59 AM

ZYmhw297cEs

^I heard he didn't even have his foot on the pedal for this one :goof :durr

Exitspeed

01-27-2010, 10:18 AM

Anyone ever see the Top Gear where they try to destroy a Tocoma...but can't?

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/killing-a-toyota

This is worth the watch.

DirtyMax

01-27-2010, 10:29 AM

you should go buy one today!

oh wait...you can't :rolf

You can if you want a 4 Runner or a Camry.

I did have an inquiry in on a 4 Runner... maybe they will really want my trade in now so they can actually sell something.

Nix

01-27-2010, 10:41 AM

I'm sure people still have GM cars with 3800 series engines despite them starting themselves on fire. Or Explorers even though they killed people during the whole tire issue.

The whole 3800 issue was only related to specific years of the SC'd model and the tire issue with Ford was due to the tire manufacturer.

The 3800 is one of the best motors that GM ever built in my opnion. That motor N/A or charged (from the factory) is basically bullet proof.

What it comes down to is every car company is going to hit a snag every once and a while. It is what it is. I do have to agree that Toyota is doing the right thing by stopping production and taking care of the issue before anyone else gets hurt or killed.

Exitspeed

01-27-2010, 10:44 AM

The whole 3800 issue was only related to specific years of the SC'd model and the tire issue with Ford was due to the tire manufacturer.

The 3800 is one of the best motors that GM ever built in my opnion. That motor N/A or charged (from the factory) is basically bullet proof.

What it comes down to is every car company is going to hit a snag every once and a while. It is what it is. I do have to agree that Toyota is doing the right thing by stopping production and taking care of the issue before anyone else gets hurt or killed.

That was my point.

Nix

01-27-2010, 12:23 PM

That was my point.

Gotchya :D

OxmanWI

01-27-2010, 12:54 PM

No, they would have a shitload of other problems :rolf:rolf

haha-ha-ha...ha good one, how long did it take you to think of that one!:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf: rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf:goof

brotherbenn83

01-27-2010, 02:44 PM

The whole 3800 issue was only related to specific years of the SC'd model

WRONG! The issue with the 3.8L starting on fire was on N/A engines only!

1997-2003 Buick Regal

1998-1999 Chevrolet Lumina

1998-2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala

1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue

1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix

Equipped with 3.8L V6 Naturally Aspirated Engine (RPO L36 - VIN K)

The fix was not "remove the source of the oil leak" it was "remove the piece of plastic that starts on fire and continues the burning" Classic GM, but I would still never buy a Toyota...I prefer Aussie cars.

Nix

01-27-2010, 03:04 PM

WRONG! The issue with the 3.8L starting on fire was on N/A engines only!

1997-2003 Buick Regal

1998-1999 Chevrolet Lumina

1998-2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala

1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue

1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix

Equipped with 3.8L V6 Naturally Aspirated Engine (RPO L36 - VIN K)

The fix was not "remove the source of the oil leak" it was "remove the piece of plastic that starts on fire and continues the burning" Classic GM, but I would still never buy a Toyota...I prefer Aussie cars.

Damn dude, my apologies. Take a deep breath and roll back away from the keyboard... :rolf

Fuck I was wrong, whatever shall I do?? :durr

Oh and for the record it is an issue on the SC'd model, I know, I had one. It was a 2002 and got the card from Pontiac stating the issue.

brotherbenn83

01-27-2010, 03:10 PM

1997-03 Buick Regal GS

1997-03 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP

Equipped with 3.8L V6 Supercharged (RPO L67 - VIN 1) Engine

You were right, there are 2 separate recalls for the same thing, except on the sc'd car you actually replace the valve cover gasket and grommets on the bolts.

Nix

01-27-2010, 03:13 PM

Exitspeed

01-27-2010, 04:04 PM

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/01/60395969opt.jpg

forcefedss

01-27-2010, 06:31 PM

doesnt every car maker have issues that go hidden? or unresolved?

Sprayaway Fox

01-27-2010, 06:52 PM

Time to trade in my Pinto for a Yota

Josepy

01-27-2010, 07:58 PM

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 10:54 PM

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 11:02 PM

What are they doing to fix it? Lynn was at Andrew today with her New Rav4. The guy told her if it happens put it in neutral, pull over and call a tow truck. Thats awesome :thumbsup

thats all you can do,the chance of this happening is so miniscule its unfathomable.Toyota is coming up with the fix. cars are not be produced because dealers can not buy them if the cant sell them. it is a federal law that states no recalled cars may be sold until they are fixed. if the dealer cant sell them,why produce them. fix them at the plants and send parts to the dealers to fix them.
it makes no sense to build them with inferior parts,send them to the dealers then pay the dealer to correct it when it could be fixed at the plants.

Hey erice you may wanna start doing some digging yourself.Ford is #2 in uninteneded accel lawsuits that date back to 05 and have been stalled in the court system,chrysler is 3 and gm close to three in fourth.

and remember this is a stateside manufacture of the pedal assy. what if,just what if Toyota did this knowing they would be the first to do so and fix it properly,only to see others that maybe using this companies pedals do the same later?
Im very much looking forward to more info on my end as well on this.
remember any japanese produced cars and trucks are not on the list because they use the denso part,the CTS american produced and supplied part is the issue on all of these.

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 11:08 PM

Ford hmmm
http://www.productliabilitylawblog.com/2009/10/ford_recall_over_faulty_cruise.html#more

Reverend Cooper

01-27-2010, 11:10 PM

whoops chrysler and gm still paying
http://www.productliabilitylawblog.com/2009/07/products_liability_attorney_ji.html

07ROUSHSTG3

01-28-2010, 07:20 AM

Hey erice you may wanna start doing some digging yourself.Ford is #2 in uninteneded accel lawsuits that date back to 05 and have been stalled in the court system,chrysler is 3 and gm close to three in fourth.

classic!!

when the government tells ford that they have to stop sales and halt production, start your own thread :rolleyes:.

oh...what was that? toyota didn't mention that the gov made them do this in their press release?? all you that are saying how great of a company toyota is for doing this, i would love to hear what you think after reading this

http://jalopnik.com/5458241/toyota-neglects-to-mention-sale-of-vehicles-halted-because-feds-forced-them

:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf

and coop, i thought toyota was suing news channels because there was no problem?? quit trying to cover your ass like toyota and admit that you are wrong.

if a mod could please change the title to:

"government forces toyota to tell dealers to stop selling and stop production", it would be great, LOL!

BAD LS1

01-28-2010, 08:05 AM

Anyone catch the report on the local guy on fox 6 last night that had one stick? Was his accident caused by the pedal or something else? The stories are kinda unclear around here. I guess he works at briggs too.

Josepy

01-28-2010, 08:32 AM

Waver

01-28-2010, 09:27 AM

I find it funny that when an auto maker that is not GM has a recall or is forced to do something a lot of people get up all in arms. I also love the fact that even though this thread is about Toyota, Ford and Gm somehow get brought into the mix. Toyota was doing the fix before the federal government ordered the recall. I guess the suits in Washington thought that Toyota wasnt moving fast enough. However, Toyota did take steps to try to fix probable causes of this problem. I commend them for that.

A few other things
I believe the camry is part of the recall

For the Explorers was the airpressure settings as well as the tires that were put on the vehicles that were partial causes of the problem. The other is driver error. Many auto magazines did tests to see is the instant deflation of a tire would cause the vehicle to flip over. The result: Unless the driver freaked out and jerked the wheel suddenly, instead of letting off the gas and pulling over to the side like you would if you had a normal problem, the Explorer would NOT flip over.

Manufacturers have recalls all the time, lets face it, no part is perfect. Electronics fail at any time.

Finally: Throttle Cables FTW

07ROUSHSTG3

01-28-2010, 09:35 AM

Finally: Throttle Cables FTW

i agree. and don't worry ford is planning on offering extra incentives for people to trade in their toyotas, so you may see some cash because of their screw up :thumbsup.

Prince Valiant

01-28-2010, 09:40 AM

I also love the fact that even though this thread is about Toyota, Ford and Gm somehow get brought into the mix. Probably because other manufactures similar problems -IE, problems either with unintended acceleration (ford and chrysler) or ongoing denial about growing problems and the slow build up to deal with them (as ford did with the explorer)- is be relevant to the discussion...especially when it helps to put the problem into perspective (of which some posters have apparently lost).

It's fairly typical of most discussion...to use analogies and/or similar past or relatable experiences to help make a point.

Waver

01-28-2010, 10:01 AM

Probably because other manufactures similar problems -IE, problems either with unintended acceleration (ford and chrysler) or ongoing denial about growing problems and the slow build up to deal with them (as ford did with the explorer)- is be relevant to the discussion...especially when it helps to put the problem into perspective (of which some posters have apparently lost).

It's fairly typical of most discussion...to use analogies and/or similar past or relatable experiences to help make a point.

Like I said, Ford did make a mistake with the tire pressure on the explorer, however in that case it was the tire supplier (which Ford Sued) as well as the individual owners/drivers of the vehicles. For Gm's gas tank issues.....sure they could explode, however more people were talking about it because of a news agency putting a incinerary device to help start a fire in their news report.

I understand that people like using other things to put it into perspective, however THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT FORD or GM (except the vibe) for that matter WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAVE SEEN A RECALL ABOUT CHRYSLER, HONDA, OR NISSAN IN HERE? (oh yeah, that is right, they are infallible in your mind). Toyota is taking care of the problem, just like the brand you seem to have a hatefull hard on for, prince. They were fixing it before the government told them to stop production and the selling of the vehicles. No vehicle or make is going to be perfect, especially since they are all built by people or robots created by people. One of my former service managers said this, and it is true today "All vehicles are junk, no matter if it is an american, japaneese, or european made vehicle. Some just show how junky they are earlier than others."

Mr Twigbert

01-28-2010, 10:43 AM

they did not cover anything up,there are two seperate issues ,one with the mats,and one with the pedals.some cars will fall under both.
I laugh when people say buy american lol its a american produced part and supplier that is having the pedal issues.

IMO and it's ONLY my opinion that if a company is making pedals for a HUGE corp. like Toyota then that part had better be spot on to EXACT specs.. I really doub't some company would make the pedals too big and not EXACTLY what Toyota says they were to make them.. They would loose a HUGE contract.. I suspect the pedal company was making them to the right specs and Toyota just designed them to be too big.. But thats just my opinon.. I have no data or facts to back that up..

I am however a little scared about driving my Toyota.. Not really for me but for my wife.. I may have her stop driving it.. I truly believe the brakes will over power my 4 cyl. motor and the car will stop..

WhatsADSM

01-28-2010, 10:51 AM

... the CTS american produced and supplied part is the issue on all of these.

You are correct it is an American company that is making the part.

However they are making it per Toyota's design. Period.

http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/press_releases/nr100127.htm

Also to all those quick to blame the electronics. READ! It has always been a mechanical issue. The floor mat was a mechanical thing, now the component on the pedal assembly is a mechanical thing. This problem could have just as easily happened on a cable assembled car. In fact funny enough, the only car I have ever had get the pedal stuck WOT, was an old cable driven 240 of mine. The cable bound up once while WOT and the pedal didn't return! I remember it being a little scary but I just pushed in the clutch and turned off the car.

07ROUSHSTG3

01-28-2010, 10:54 AM

FYI: ford just announced that they are halting using the CTS pedals. they are used in china to produce the transit diesel. 1600 pedals have been used thus far.

way to go ford!! at the first sign of a problem you step up to the plate in the name of customer safety!!! more crow for people to eat.

Prince Valiant

01-28-2010, 11:38 AM

I understand that people like using other things to put it into perspective, however THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT FORD or GM (except the vibe) for that matter WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAVE SEEN A RECALL ABOUT CHRYSLER, HONDA, OR NISSAN IN HERE?Then you don't understand :rolleyes:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAVE SEEN A RECALL ABOUT CHRYSLER, HONDA, OR NISSAN IN HERE?(oh yeah, that is right, they are infallible in your mind).When have I ever started a thread about a recall? I don't hate of companies for issuing recalls. I don't ever feel vindicated by a company issuing a recall.

Hell, if you have read the thread, (a big "if" since you ostensibly have severe reading comprehension issues), you'll see that I defend toyota, and by extension, companies issuing recalls. Oh, and I supposedly impugn my "infallible" chrysler along the way.

Toyota is taking care of the problem, just like the brand you seem to have a hatefull hard on for, prince. They were fixing it before the government told them to stop production and the selling of the vehicles. No vehicle or make is going to be perfect, especially since they are all built by people or robots created by people. One of my former service managers said this, and it is true today "All vehicles are junk, no matter if it is an american, japaneese, or european made vehicle. Some just show how junky they are earlier than others."See, here's quotable proof how disconnected from reality you are: Find where I admonish toyota, ford, chrysler, or anyone? Hell, find where I make any comment in a thread dealing with recalls?

:alcoholic

T-Bag

01-28-2010, 12:30 PM

I'd still buy one over any of the pieces of shit currently in gm/chrysler's lineup.

Prince Valiant

01-28-2010, 12:31 PM

classic!!

when the government tells ford that they have to stop sales and halt production, start your own thread :rolleyes:.

oh...what was that? toyota didn't mention that the gov made them do this in their press release?? all you that are saying how great of a company toyota is for doing this, i would love to hear what you think after reading this

http://jalopnik.com/5458241/toyota-neglects-to-mention-sale-of-vehicles-halted-because-feds-forced-them

:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf You know what's classic is that you make it seem with how you represent the event, as if the gov't swooped in, broke through the corporate doors, and forced toyota to stop selling cars against their will...and then made it look like their idea afterward.

A more balanced reading of the event shows something different, and not quite as nefarious as you make it out to be.

Here's the exact quote from head of the NHTSA, Dave Strickland:
"They consulted with the agency. We informed them of the obligations, and they complied..."

classic.

And honestly, under voluntary recall rules (of which this still is), I would have been under the impression that sales of the recalled model can still occur (it does with other products if the retailer chooses to). The fact that it's not is news to me...and it seems as if toyota was being cautious in moving forward with the scope of the recall.

Nix

01-28-2010, 12:41 PM

I'd still buy one over any of the pieces of shit currently in gm/chrysler's lineup.

Then maybe you would die in a fire too? :banana1: :goof

All car makers fuck up now and then. Blah blah blah

I wonder if any of the Lexus models are affected?

07ROUSHSTG3

01-28-2010, 01:40 PM

You know what's classic is that you make it seem with how you represent the event, as if the gov't swooped in, broke through the corporate doors, and forced toyota to stop selling cars against their will...and then made it look like their idea afterward.

A more balanced reading of the event shows something different, and not quite as nefarious as you make it out to be.

Here's the exact quote from head of the NHTSA, Dave Strickland:
"They consulted with the agency. We informed them of the obligations, and they complied..."

classic.

And honestly, under voluntary recall rules (of which this still is), I would have been under the impression that sales of the recalled model can still occur (it does with other products if the retailer chooses to). The fact that it's not is news to me...and it seems as if toyota was being cautious in moving forward with the scope of the recall.

ugh, your posts used to be worth the time they took to read. i now tend to look at your posts like i look at wrath's housing market posts.

fact is, toyota failed to mention that this action they took was mandated by the government. no place in my post did i make i suggest that they "swooped in"?!?!? i posted a link to an article that i didn't write. since this has been announced, people across the world, and even here on BCM have been trying to spin this story. "what a great thing they are doing", "FORD and GM would never stop production like toyota is doing", "this goes to show that safety is more important than money". turns out that toyota's hand was forced into doing the right thing. however you believe or interpret it happened is completely up to you. i presented the facts.

Waver

01-28-2010, 02:26 PM

Then you don't understand :rolleyes:

When have I ever started a thread about a recall? I don't hate of companies for issuing recalls. I don't ever feel vindicated by a company issuing a recall.

Hell, if you have read the thread, (a big "if" since you ostensibly have severe reading comprehension issues), you'll see that I defend toyota, and by extension, companies issuing recalls. Oh, and I supposedly impugn my "infallible" chrysler along the way.

See, here's quotable proof how disconnected from reality you are: Find where I admonish toyota, ford, chrysler, or anyone? Hell, find where I make any comment in a thread dealing with recalls?

:alcoholic

You havent, However, I do find it funny that in your defense of Toyota, you brought ford into this....I actually have great reading comprehension. The title says it all "toyota tells its dealers to stop selling".........I dont see anywhere in the title where is says "ford", do you? For that matter, you were the first to say "Ford is the 2nd highest with this problem"...........How is that a defense of Toyota? What you seem to be missing is that, from what I have read, Toyota is not 100% sure of the problem. As a result, they are stopping the production, as well as selling of the affected models. Now I gave Kudos to Toyota for trying to fix the possible causes of this. I guess your reading comprehension skills are the ones that are lacking, not mine. Since you must of taken an extra strong dose of that "wacky tobacca", let me break it down for you.

1)It is true you dont start these recall threads, however lately, you seem to be one of the first to bring Ford into them. You also seem to be the first to want to rip ford apart in the different Ford threads that have been going on....I expect this from an asshat like Wraith, not you.

2) Since you have reading comprehension issues your self, I will say this again: I said that Toyota should be given credit for trying to fix any and all of the possible causes of the sticking gas pedals......Just like you would do if you were trying to diagnose a car, check the easiest answer first and go on from there.

3) My first post in this thread was to do two things. One, give credit to toyota, and two, try to stop people from bringing other manufactures into it. It is not Ford who is in the news for this recall, it is not Gm.....It is just Toyota. Give your opinions on just toyota. Other manufactures who have this problem arnt in the news, and are fixing them......That is not on the nightly news either. So therefore, KEEP THIS THREAD ON TOYOTA......Coop has a right to say that Toyota is fixing the problem, and that it is not really toyotas fault, and that they should be commended for trying to take care of this. Why because he is an insider...He brought up Ford and Gm saying that they have recalls too, and a lot of them got blown out of proportion by the media...........Just like this.

DynoTom

01-28-2010, 03:40 PM

Toyota Avalon displays unintended acceleration without floor mat
01/15/2010, 3:26 PMBy Mark Kleis
In a rather bizarre instance, a driver reportedly began to experience unintended acceleration from his Toyota Avalon and was able to drive the car to a nearby dealer with the vehicle still displaying wide open throttle, despite having the floormat removed. Dealer techs witnessed the problem and have reportedly offered to repair the vehicle free of charge.

According to a report from The Safety Record, on December 29, 2009, the driver of a 2007 Toyota Avalon experienced a bizarre case of sudden and unintended acceleration while driving on the highway, just miles from a local Toyota dealer. The driver managed to switch the vehicle between Neutral and Drive multiple times, while en route to the dealer in order to show the dealer the problem as it was still occurring.

The driver was able to reach the dealer, place the vehicle into neutral, and allow it to continue operating at wide open throttle. The dealer sent out a tech who verified that the floor mat was removed, and pushing the gas pedal had no effect on the acceleration. The dealer was unable to stop the wide open throttle and was forced to shut the vehicle off.

This incident was apparently not the first for the driver, either, who had been to the dealer before about the problem. The first time the unintended acceleration occurred, the driver was able to slow the vehicle with the brakes and switch the vehicle into neutral where the engine continued to hit maximum rpms. At the time of the first incident, dealer diagnostics revealed no problems in the computer.

The dealer eventually offered to replace the throttle body, accelerator pedal and associated sensors free of charge for the driver after the second incident.

This incident may prove to be a crucial step in finding the true cause of the many reported cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. Toyota began its largest-ever recall in 2009 to replace the floor mats and accelerator pedals in over 3.8 million vehicles that could experience unintended acceleration. Critics and survivors of unintended acceleration cases argued that the problem was not a result of the floor mats or accelerator pedals, but instead insist that the computer controlling the acceleration of the vehicle is at fault.

The Safety Record also reported on a one-car crash that occurred in Dallas, Texas the day after Christmas involving a Toyota Avalon. According to the accident report, the vehicle inexplicably left the road and ended up crashing through a fence, and landing upside down in a pond killing all four occupants. The floor mats were found in the trunk of the car ruling out the possibility of the floor mat causing the accident.

The official cause of the Dallas crash has not yet been determined.

Windsors 03 Cobra

01-28-2010, 03:44 PM

I'd still buy one over any of the pieces of shit currently in gm/chrysler's lineup.

I would too, I love the Solara and the Camry is a good looking car as well. In addition to all the good Lexi. I did see a Buick Lucerne today that actually caught my eye and the new Bu is nice as well but I dont trust small GM V6's as far as I can throw them.
Also spotted a new probably brand new Accord coupe today, helluva good looking car there too. Nissan also has many nice looking cars.
I dont even see how Chrysler can still be in business with what they are marketing, the only decent autos they seem to have are the Challenger and a couple of Jeeps.

I was a little relieved to hear Yota's recall has extended to Europe and China, ATLEAST WE CAN EXPORT SOMETHING FROM THE UNITED STATES IF EVEN FOR A FOREIGN CAR.

Reverend Cooper

01-28-2010, 06:36 PM

Toyota stopped production because again,the dealers under federal law are not supposed to sell recalled vehicles,if the dealer cant sell them the factories have no need to produce them,and again why produce them with a inferior part just to pay the dealer to change it. Toyota was not made by the government to shut down period. Toyota did this voluntarily even after nhts said there was no reason. no confirm deny it was a issue.
Anyone on here that thinks its a pedal issue is a retard,its the internal spring in the pedal assy. which is produced by cts for Toyota pedal made to specs,parts not made by them failing.
This will in the long run benefit Toyota because they are the first to come out and admit to and VOLUNTARILY take care of it.
There will be other companies affected by this,I may be wrong but If not it will make me laugh. I have heard Gm,Chrysler,Ford,Honda and Nissan use the same company for more than one model.
Toyota is in the process of getting the parts to fix the issue,anyone who thinks they have no clue really has no clue themselves.
I cant wait to see if this actually causes them to drop from the #1 slot for the year,or if it actually boosts sales by the end of the year.
I just hope if there are other manufacturer's that are affected the recall isnt so huge it puts them out of business.

CATNHAT

01-28-2010, 09:10 PM

Toyota stopped production because again,the dealers under federal law are not supposed to sell recalled vehicles,if the dealer cant sell them the factories have no need to produce them,and again why produce them with a inferior part just to pay the dealer to change it. Toyota was not made by the government to shut down period. Toyota did this voluntarily even after nhts said there was no reason. no confirm deny it was a issue.
Anyone on here that thinks its a pedal issue is a retard,its the internal spring in the pedal assy. which is produced by cts for Toyota pedal made to specs,parts not made by them failing.

I talked to a guy to guy today who was in upper management at CTS in the 90's when they were developing TBW (throttle by wire) Volvo was the first company to engage CTS on TBW design and there were WOT (wide open throttle) issues at the onset of this program. Volvo blamed CTS engineering for the problem. CTS said not us, and the problem was discovered in the software written to control the devices (throttle positioning sensor etc.) Not sure who wrote the software yet.

This could very well be a software issue and not a mechanical issue ie defective spring.

I tried to get more info but he said "no one is talking, I mean, no one"

Very interesting times in the auto biz......

The messiah of auto reliabilty has taken a hit. A big one. And I think it is overdue.

brotherbenn83

01-28-2010, 09:32 PM

Please rename this thread "Pissing Match: Prince vs. Nut"

DynoTom

01-28-2010, 11:58 PM

Tuesday's move to stop production on eight vehicles follows two recent recalls aimed at preventing Toyota-made vehicles from surging out of control, a problem that has been blamed in at least 19 deaths and scores of injuries over the last decade -- more than for all other automakers combined.

07ROUSHSTG3

01-29-2010, 08:04 AM

it appears that they have found a fix. looks like they are replacing all the pedals

http://news.globaltv.com/money/Toyota+finds/2496547/story.html

wouldn't it be possible to simply reprogram the pcm to shut down accel in the event that the brake pedal is pushed?!?! someone mentioned a switch, but i wonder if that would even be needed. if the car is under accel, which would be known with the pedal position sensor or tps, and the brake pedal is pushed at the same time, which could be detected by numerous switches, the car completely overrides the pedal.

just a thought. seems like it would save a shitload of money and time.

FoxStang

01-29-2010, 11:57 AM

DynoTom

01-29-2010, 11:31 PM

I thought this was kinda funny....:D

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/rossmusick/toyotafordummies.jpg

Reverend Cooper

01-31-2010, 01:47 PM

I talked to a guy to guy today who was in upper management at CTS in the 90's when they were developing TBW (throttle by wire) Volvo was the first company to engage CTS on TBW design and there were WOT (wide open throttle) issues at the onset of this program. Volvo blamed CTS engineering for the problem. CTS said not us, and the problem was discovered in the software written to control the devices (throttle positioning sensor etc.) Not sure who wrote the software yet.

This could very well be a software issue and not a mechanical issue ie defective spring.

I tried to get more info but he said "no one is talking, I mean, no one"

Very interesting times in the auto biz......

The messiah of auto reliabilty has taken a hit. A big one. And I think it is overdue.

What hit is that? The one where they protected and voluntarily recalled a part in the pedal that was defective and made by CTS. software upodates will be done on most mdels as well if it see no change in pedal and brake is applied. this has nothing to do with sensors or software its a part issue from its producer.
and as far as being the messiah of reliability,uh they still are and will be.

Holeshot

01-31-2010, 02:08 PM

I'd still consider a Toyota as a DD. We will be looking to replace one of our Pontiac's this fall.

CATNHAT

01-31-2010, 05:41 PM

What hit is that? The one where they protected and voluntarily recalled a part in the pedal that was defective and made by CTS. software upodates will be done on most mdels as well if it see no change in pedal and brake is applied. this has nothing to do with sensors or software its a part issue from its producer.
and as far as being the messiah of reliability,uh they still are and will be.

Taking 2.3 MILLION cars on recall and shutting down production and ceasing sales on 8 models qualifies as a hit, don't you?

We'll see what comes out of Elkhart, like to know what there opinion is on the issue.

As far as the messiah of reliability is concerned, I guess we will have to wait and see what the market thinks. I was always told that a toyota product was the best and most reliable thing ever made. This recall does not convey that message very well.

CATNHAT

01-31-2010, 06:01 PM

made by CTS. software upodates will be done on most mdels as well if it see no change in pedal and brake is applied. this has nothing to do with sensors or software its a part issue from its producer.
and as far as being the messiah of reliability,uh they still are and will be.

Try reading this article in USA Today, not a CTS problem.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-01-29-toyotacts29_CV_N.htm?csp=hf

Reverend Cooper

01-31-2010, 09:16 PM

^ why is it not,the CTS pedal was designed by toyota,as the denso model is,yet the interpretation of the pedal design is completely diff. than that of the denso, toyotas denso design is good no failures,but the cts that looks totaly diff. and has the issues. simply put each interpreted their own way,one works one sticks, It appears as it is a mechanical issue with lack of spring tension.
Toyota has had slim to no recall concerns untill now that have the potential to be deadly unlike other domestics out there. Most people would think that a recall has nothing to do with reliability,once fixed any question of reliability should be gone and consumer confidence will return,I would take a camy with a poss. of a sticking pedal over any other foregn or domestic sedan in its class. Why? because we all know it will last longer and cost less to maintain 9 out of 10 times period, as is true on most toyota models.
Toyota will rebound and be fine. I have that confidence in them for sure.

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 10:00 AM

Funny Coop, you should maybe check facts before spouting off. Everyone (you included) assumes Toyota, particularly the Camry has still been the benchmark for quality. That ship sailed 5 or so years ago.

Toyota has had a shitload of recalls the last five years. Leading all manufacturers many of those years. As for one recent example, the Tacoma was just recalled for serious frame rust issues, causing it to drop the spare tire carrier and spare into the road behind them into traffic. I would call that a major safety defect...

The Camry has been 6th or 7th or so in the JD Power Initial Quality rankings for many years now. Thats 6th or 7th just in the midsize sedan category. 3 GM sedans beat it last year.

The new Tundra that they advertised the shit out of was so bad with engine/camshaft issues, tranny noise and issues, box going out of square issues, tailgates breaking off issues, you name it that they ended up pulling the plug on the entire brand new plant in San Antonio for like 9 months while they completely redid the truck and plant...

Oil sludging V6's, someone on here just recently posted a thread about their 4 cylinder issues, you name it they have had every bit as many and in several cases quite a bit more major screwups in the last 5-10 years than any other manufacturer.

As far as cost to maintain that's a joke as well. Here's one of many personal anecdotes - I just had to replace the serpentine belt tensioner on an 05 Camry. A 4 year old car with 70K miles on it. Its apparently such a common problem that when you buy the belt at Autozone it comes up on their screen and is even printed right on the Dayco belt packaging to be sure to check the tensioner since they fail. The tensioner rather than being a simple wind up spring design like practically every other car I have seen and worked on is some wierd shock absorber and bracket contraption. Cost at a dealer to fix - $800. List price for part alone - $400. Price even at cheapest parts retailer - $200. The extra kick in the nuts from Toyota is that their brilliant engineering has the pivot bolt so long and the front of the engine so close to the frame which coincidentally lines up right with the bolt that it cannot be removed with the engine in place. Had to remove the motor mount on that side and jack the engine up just to get clearance to get the bolt out. My domestic Caddy had recently needed the belt and it took 15 minutes tops I did it in the street with a 1/2" bar and a $15 belt.

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 10:04 AM

Also, they have known about and tried to hide the problem since 2003. Blamed it on driver error, floormats, you name it until now they finally owned up.

http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-is-toyota-really-putting-you-first.aspx?googleid=277558

WhatsADSM

02-01-2010, 10:12 AM

Yea ultimately it is Toyota's fault for the pedal. CTS makes the pedal however it is the toyota design and Toyota signs off on it at the end of the day. Also it is a mechanical issue, not a software issue, like I have said many times before.

As for toyota's quality.. personally I still don't have a problem steering anyone looking for a car into a new corolla or camry or pretty much anything made by toyota. However, I also think they are VERY overrated. IMO in foreign land honda is superior, and even the domestics have pretty much caught up. For as many bad experiences people post up about the domestics I have the same with the toyos. Hell even my mother in laws 05 camry with like 65k on it has every single dash light on. Some powertrain sensor is bad, as well as an ABS light likely due to a sensor. At only 65k... really? She drives that thing like an old lady.

Neal Steffek

02-01-2010, 10:21 AM

Has anyone said anything about GM recalling all the 3.8's out there becasue they will burn your car to the ground?

I can think of 20 threads on ClubGP.com where people had there GP burn down right after driving it. Go GM! :rolleyes:

Nix

02-01-2010, 10:32 AM

Neal Steffek

02-01-2010, 10:44 AM

That issue was addressed some time ago, this is now the issue at hand. :thumbsup

Ok, just want to make sure no one says GM has never done anything stupid. I am not going to read 5 pages of people swinging there car dicks around.

animal

02-01-2010, 11:27 AM

As for one recent example, the Tacoma was just recalled for serious frame rust issues, causing it to drop the spare tire carrier and spare into the road behind them into traffic. I would call that a major safety defect...

This apparently does concern them, they just put a brand new frame, brake lines, and suspension on my dad's 2001 tacoma... for free. It was like a $14k "cost" involved on a 9 year old truck.

Nix

02-01-2010, 12:28 PM

Ok, just want to make sure no one says GM has never done anything stupid. I am not going to read 5 pages of people swinging there car dicks around.

No need to worry about that. I'am failry confident that no one on here would say GM has never done anything wrong. If there was someone on here that said that they need to be shot in the face. :rolf

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 12:33 PM

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 12:35 PM

This apparently does concern them, they just put a brand new frame, brake lines, and suspension on my dad's 2001 tacoma... for free. It was like a $14k "cost" involved on a 9 year old truck.

I didn't say it didn't concern them, just responding to Coops post that:

"Toyota has had slim to no recall concerns untill now that have the potential to be deadly unlike other domestics out there. "

animal

02-01-2010, 12:45 PM

No i agree. I was just illustrating what you were talking about. :)

CATNHAT

02-01-2010, 01:25 PM

My experience with mfgs is this:

98 Durango POS
2000 Durango POS
2001 Honda Odyssey, small problems, nothing major
2002 Dodge 1500 Crew: Blown tranny 50,000 miles.
2004 Dodge 2500 Crew Hemi: Bought back by Modine MFG
2004 F-150 FX4 Super Crew. Zero problems
2005 F-150 Roush Platinum. Zero probs.
2005 Roush Mustang zero probs
2008 GMC Yukon Denali: a few probs, nothing major, windshield wiper motor and fuse block $500
2005 Honda Odyssey: hydraulic motor mount ($700, power steering $650, master cylinder $??, Power steering reservoir $??
2008 Mustang GT vert zero probs.

To me, Ford seems to be the most reliable and I am not impressed with Honda at all. This Odyssey will be the last foreign car I ever own. Unless I win Powerball then I will have to make an exception for Ferrari, Lotus, Astin Martin, Maserati, those would be OK.:drool:

My point is that I do not think toyota is as great as a lot of people think they are and as the media portrays them to be.

Exitspeed

02-01-2010, 01:53 PM

Everyone can give their experiences with any amount of given cars, but it still doesn't change the statistics.

I wanna see how long I can actually keep my Camry. Outside of a belt, changing fluids, pads/rotors, and a blower motor resister I've not done NOTHING to this car and I just rape it with miles. The motor still runs practically like it did when we got it some 170,000 miles ago. It needs new struts, but that's expected with over 200k, and I'm pretty sure they are original.

I'm sure a lot of people on here have had cars they put over 200,000 miles on but in all honesty how many can say they never had to change an alternator, starter, tranny, etc etc? Not many.

For dependability I still have complete confidence in Toyota. Every manufacturer fucks up from time to time.

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 04:03 PM

Detailed NYT article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35181415/ns/business-the_new_york_times

Reverend Cooper

02-01-2010, 08:13 PM

CATNHAT

02-01-2010, 09:10 PM

Here are some facts:

http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/sudden-acceleration-toyotas-history-of-covering-up-potential-safety-problems.aspx?googleid=276070

http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-is-toyota-really-putting-you-first.aspx?googleid=277558

Toyota Recall: Is Toyota Really Putting "You" First?

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Posted by Brett Emison (http://www.injuryboard.com/Brett-Emison/)January 31, 2010 3:57 PM

Tags: Toyota (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/Toyota/), Lexus (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/Lexus/), Pontiac (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/Pontiac/), recall (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/recall/), sudden acceleration (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/sudden+acceleration/), unintended acceleration (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/unintended+acceleration/), gas pedal (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/gas+pedal/), accelerator (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/accelerator/), pedal (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/pedal/), throttle (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/throttle/), sticky (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/sticky/), CTS (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/CTS/), safety (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/safety/), accountability (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/accountability/), responsibility (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/responsibility/), Langdon & Emison (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/tag/Langdon+%26+Emison/)
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As USA Today reports (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/01/toyota-asks-for-patience-in-sorting-out-dual-recalls-in-ads-today/1), Toyota has introduced an advertising campaign designed to convince the public that Toyota is putting you first. But is it really putting its drivers first?
http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/uploadedimages/InjuryBoardcom_Content/Blogs/Regional_Blogs/kansas-cityinjuryboardcom/Toyota%20Ad.jpg
Since Toyota first became aware of the unintended acceleration problem, there have been more than 815 sudden acceleration crashes, at least 314 injuries and at least 19 deaths. You can learn about the numbers behind the Toyota recall here (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/the-numbers-behind-the-toyota-sudden-acceleration-recall.aspx?googleid=277512).
After ignoring the sudden acceleration problem for more than five years (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-denied-customer-complaints-on-sudden-acceleration-problem-for-more-than-5-years.aspx?googleid=274028), Toyota has expanded its multiple gas pedal recalls (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-expands-recall-again.aspx?googleid=277452) of more than 9 million vehicles (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/business/30toyota.html) for a fifth time to include Toyota vehicles sold in Israel (http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000535156&fid=942).
Today we also learned that Toyota fixed the "sticky" pedal problem in Europe last year (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-toyota-fixed-sticky-pedal-problem-in-europe-before-usa.aspx?googleid=277564) while it was still denying the problem in the US. Why did Toyota fix its European cars while Americans were getting injured and killed by the exact same defect?
Now, it appears the president of Toyota may have lied on the Today Show (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-did-toyota-president-lie-on-national-tv.aspx?googleid=277594) in an intervie with Matt Lauer.
We also learned that a "smart brake" system would have prevented nearly all of the sudden acceleration crashes, has been around for 15 years and would have cost less than $1 (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-smart-pedal-would-prevent-deaths-costs-less-than-1.aspx?googleid=277464) per vehicle. Now, Toyota has developed a fix for the "sticky" pedal problem, but is keeping the parts for itself (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-toyota-says-it-has-a-fix-but-keeps-parts-for-itself-rather-than-send-to-dealerscustomers.aspx?googleid=277488) rather than sending them out dealers and Toyota's customers to fix these deadly vehicles that are already on American roads.
Toyota is attempting to take credit for this "voluntary" recall when the truth is that safety regulators demanded that Toyota stop selling these deadly vehicles (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-accelerator-recall-the-truth-behind-toyotas-sales-halt.aspx?googleid=277426).

"The truth is, the reason Toyota decided to do the recall and to stop manufacturing is because we asked them to," [Transportation Secretary Ray] LaHood told WGN Radio.
Does it sound like Toyota is putting you first?
What is sounds like is another notch in Toyota's well-documented history of attempted cover-ups of safety problems (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/sudden-acceleration-toyotas-history-of-covering-up-potential-safety-problems.aspx?googleid=276070). The Detroit Free Press has documented (http://www.freep.com/article/20100131/BUSINESS01/1310523/1014/business01) how Toyota has stonewalled the investigation of these problems since at least 2003.

A Free Press review of documents from nine U.S. investigations since 2003 into sudden acceleration complaints show Toyota repeatedly ruled out many owner complaints, dismissed several concerns as posing no danger and modified models in production without offering similar changes to vehicles already on the road. Not until the 2007 floor mat investigation did any of the complaints lead to a recall.
Safety advocates and attorneys for owners suing over sudden acceleration say Toyota has simply stonewalled.
Instead of doing the right thing and fixing these problems on its own, Toyota had to be pressured into finally fixing these problems. While Toyota waited, innocent people died.

Toyota had to be pressured With its decision to recall vehicles for faulty gas pedals, Toyota reversed calls it made in 2007 and 2008 that the same pedals weren't a safety threat in response to consumer complaints in the United States and Europe.
***
Sean Kane, a safety researcher who works with attorneys pursuing cases against Toyota, said Friday that he had found 19 deaths and 341 injuries stemming from 815 separate crashes involving Toyotas and sudden acceleration.
"This company is not being frank about the causes of sudden acceleration," Kane said. "We need to get down to the cause, and get it resolved quickly."
Since 2003, Toyota and government safety investigators have ignored hundreds of sudden acceleration complaints. Instead, Toyota blamed the sudden acceleration events on driver error, saying it was impossible for the electronics to malfunction.

Since the 1990s, NHTSA had concluded that most sudden acceleration complaints were caused by drivers mistakenly hitting the gas pedal instead of the brake. When a Massachusetts man asked in April 2003 for an investigation of 1997-2000 model Lexus sedans, citing 271 complaints of unintended acceleration, the agency rejected his request without querying Toyota for data.
On Jan. 22, 2004, an elderly Las Vegas couple died after the 2002 Camry they were driving sped off the fourth floor of a parking deck at the Golden Nugget casino. Their son later told NHTSA that witnesses saw the car stop, then accelerate off the deck.
In February 2004, a nurse from Maryland asked the agency to review the 2002 and 2003 Lexus ES350 sedans, saying her throttle had malfunctioned several times and led to one crash. A month later, NHTSA launched a wider investigation into the electronic throttles on nearly 1 million Lexus and Toyota sedans, citing more than 100 complaints.
From the start, Toyota pushed NHTSA to narrowly define the problem as short bursts where the engine surged to "something less than a wide-open throttle." It compared many of the complaints to the prior sudden acceleration cases that NHTSA had deemed driver error. Toyota also said the computer could not open the throttle without the accelerator pedal being pressed, and said even if built-in safety checks failed, stepping on the brakes would stop the car.
If Toyota was putting you first, it would have fixed this problem when it first became known in 2002 and 2003. If Toyota was putting you first, it would have spent pennies per vehicle to install a "smart brake" system that would prevent runaway vehicles. If Toyota was putting you first, it would not have lied to its own customers and drivers. If Toyota was putting you first, it would not have made "inaccurate and misleading" statements (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/inaccurate-and-misleading-statements-on-toyota-sudden-acceleration-problem.aspx?googleid=274000) about the sudden acceleration problem. If Toyota was putting you first, it would not have kept replacement parts for itself instead of sending them to dealers so repairs could be made.
Instead, Toyota put itself first in every instance and you should be outraged. Toyota is playing with innocent lives in order keep pennies per vehicle for itself. Toyota put profits and image over safety.
Keep the pressure on Toyota so that it finally fixes the whole problem once and for all.
I have been documenting the Toyota sudden acceleration and "sticky throttle" problems for months and you can learn more at our auto safety blog (http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/).

CATNHAT

02-01-2010, 09:19 PM

Detailed NYT article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35181415/ns/business-the_new_york_times

Interesting read.

Moparjim

02-01-2010, 10:22 PM

^ you should check you facts the tacoma is not a recall it is a csp. they are well out of any type of warranty and its a customer goodwill. You will never catch ford or chevy doing that.
the new tundra had some issues most of which are tsbs not recalls.the cam issue was on 30k units. no matter how much you wanna say toyota is washed up you are wrong.
And from experience i have see alot of sludeg motors,and not alot of proof or reciepts to back up proper oil changes even at 7500 mile int. again not a recall. try some more

Its simple fact I can't easily search on my phone. Many of the last five years they have had more recalls than anyone else. Some years several times the rate of domestics. This last one is the largest ever by far, so they will be leading this year as well. I have no problem with Toyota, they obviously make a decent car in most cases. I do have a problem with brainwashed jackasess that continue to spout off like they are all plated in gold even in the face of recalls and quality problems that easily match those of every other manufacturer. Let me guess your a Packers fan too?

lordairgtar

02-01-2010, 11:39 PM

^ You will never catch ford or chevy doing that.

Not true. I had a very well used Grand Marquis that was already 15 years old when I bought it. Ford sent the former owner a letter and she passed it on to me. They totally replaced the entire exhaust system plus emission controls that had a problem. On top of that, the dealer replaced the ignition switch because they detected abnormal heat emanating from the switch and had a service bulletin on that as well.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-02-2010, 07:18 AM

And from experience i have see alot of sludeg motors,and not alot of proof or reciepts to back up proper oil changes even at 7500 mile int. again not a recall. try some more

:rolf:rolf:rolf:rolf
coop, take the glasses off man. you are digging yourself deeper and deeper.

Moparjim

02-02-2010, 10:21 AM

I erroneously said Tacoma when referring to the recent truck/frame/dropping the spare tire into the road recall. It was the Tundra:

NOVEMBER 2009 -- Toyota is recalling model year 2000-2003 Tundra vehicles originally sold in or currently registered in the following states: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and the District of Columbia. Excessive corrosion of the rear cross member may cause the separation of the spare tire stowed under the truck bed which would present a road hazard that could cause a crash. Also, corrosion of the rear cross member could affect the rear brake lines and the proportioning valve resulting in diminished braking capability. Separation of the spare tire and diminished brake capacity could increase the risk of a crash. Toyota is asking owners of the affected vehicles to remove the spare tire from under the vehicle until a remedy can be obtained. Dealers will inspect the rear cross member and related components, including the brake lines, and replace them if necessary. If the cross member does not need to be replaced, it will be sprayed with a corrosion protection compound. These services will be performed free of charge, however multiple visits to the dealer may be required. The safety recall is expected to begin on or before December 15, 2009. 09V-44

Its hard to google search results of recent recalls now, sincethe web is spammed with articles about the huge current recall it is all that comes up in searches. When I worked in the auto industry though I recall article after article in trade magazines such as Wards, and got info on all the new recalls as they came out, and received the JD Power report every year. As I have said Toyota has had huge recalls over the past 5 years or so, many years putting them in the "lead". They have had many biggies that were actual real safety related recalls such as a big steering system one in the last few years. I saw one article on the web that stated that eveery single Toyota model made since 2000 has had at least one major recall... Here is one article I found referring to 2006 and 2005 big recalls.

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jul2006/bw20060717_855947.htm

And this one mentions the big 2005 steering recall of 2 million plus cars and trucks, which had them leading that year:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/26/business/la-fi-toyota-cost26-2009nov26

Heres some recent Tundra years info:

http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/toyota/toyota_tundra.htm

Remember.... Only 27 people officially died from Ford Pinto fires and it is still talked about... Compare that to the number of acceleration lawsuits popping out of the woodwork.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-02-2010, 02:18 PM

interesting read:

Toyota's reputation for quality went long ago Published On Fri Jan 29 2010Toronto StarBy David OliveMy friend Mary Lou in Michigan knows that Toyota's reputation for quality is a sham. On a recent visit, she swept her arm across the width of the dashboard of her year-old Camry, bought new. "Every piece of this trim has fallen off or warped," she said of America's best-selling car. An analyst at J.D. Power and Associates, the sine qua non in rating vehicle quality, told The Canadian Press Wednesday Toyota's recall of 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. and 270,000 in Canada "signifies that (Toyota is) not afraid of doing the right thing for the right reasons, that short-term sales and profits are less important than taking care of the consumer and making sure they're safe in Toyota vehicles.''I'd argue that not one word of that is true.To start with, Toyota took the extraordinary step this week of suspending production at three U.S. and its two Canadian assembly plants because it was forced to by U.S. law. "It's not a voluntary thing," Toyota spokesman Mike Michels told the Wall Street Journal Wednesday. More important, Toyota's quality problems go back many years, before the latest recall and last year's massive 4.2-million vehicle recall.As it embarked on a goal of becoming the world's biggest automaker, Toyota failed to insulate itself from the "big-company disease" that humbled General Motors Co. As Toyota quickly ramped up production of its vehicles, its employees strayed from the automaker's "Toyota Way" of exacting quality control and continuous improvement in manufacturing methods. It almost had to turn out that way. By 2007 Toyota was adding an average of two new factories a year to its global network, including a second Canadian plant in Woodstock that opened in 2008. Toyota's annual volume growth of about 500,000 vehicles equalled the entire production of Ford Motor Co.'s Volvo brand. By that same year, some 200,000, or two-thirds, of Toyota's workforce was located outside Japan. Toyota could no longer rely on word of mouth to convey the firm's managerial and manufacturing methods.From 2004 to 2007, Toyota recalled a staggering 9.3 million vehicles – a number exceeding its total annual output, and up from 2.5 million recalls in the three years previous to 2004. In 2005, Toyota's rate of recalls as a percentage of vehicles on the road hit 10.1 per cent, compared with 6.8 per cent from GM and 2.5 per cent at Chrysler Group. In 2006, Tokyo censured Toyota over improper business practices for failing for eight years to disclose and act on reports of a design flaw implicated in loss-of-control incidents. Loss of control due to accelerator pedals caught under floor mats triggered last year's huge recall, and caused four deaths after a Lexus abruptly went off the road in California.In the 2007 J.D. Power survey, the Toyota brand scored below that of Hyundai Motor Co., a firm better known for price than quality. And the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety withheld its "top-pick" rating from Toyota's Camry and RAV4 SUV after their substandard performance in whiplash tests.Also in 2007, Toyota's U.S. division settled a class-action lawsuit brought by motorists claiming that oil-sludge buildup destroyed their engines despite compliance with Toyota's maintenance guidelines.A long three years ago, then-CEO Katsuaki Watanabe acknowledged to reporters that Toyota's long run of shoddiness was jeopardizing the company. "The world-class quality that we've built is our lifeline."Yet, despite opening two quality "institutes" in each of North America and Europe to inculcate the "Toyota Way," there has been no meaningful improvement in Toyota quality. Like GM, stuck with too many plants as its market share dropped in half, Toyota has been compelled to keep all its new plants running flat-out to generate the cash flow to finance their construction, even as customer complaints have mounted.Unlike Honda, Toyota is not an engineering trailblazer. And no one would accuse Toyota of being a trendsetter in styling akin to, say, BMW. Quality is principally what Toyota offers the market. Toyota realized its goal of eclipsing GM as the world's largest automaker last year. The goal was a dubious one, given the risks. In any case, by late last year, Toyota had been overtaken by Volkswagen. The only thing saving Toyota is a decades-long reputation for quality that people who still buy its cars don't realize the firm has not lived up to for more than half a decade.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-02-2010, 02:36 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35201553/ns/business-autos

torque.hit

02-02-2010, 02:53 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35201553/ns/business-autos

Haha yeah I just read that. So much for Toyota being on the ball and looking out for our safety :rolf

Prince Valiant

02-02-2010, 03:21 PM

So the gov't, which could have compelled them to do a safety recall, only "pushed" for it? Why is that? Likewise, Mr. LaHood says that they had conducted several investigations...did they turn up the problem? I'm unimpressed with an article that seems more CYA than anything.

Moparjim

02-02-2010, 03:26 PM

"From 2004 to 2007, Toyota recalled a staggering 9.3 million vehicles – a number exceeding its total annual output, and up from 2.5 million recalls in the three years previous to 2004. In 2005, Toyota's rate of recalls as a percentage of vehicles on the road hit 10.1 per cent, compared with 6.8 per cent from GM and 2.5 per cent at Chrysler Group."

Exactly the type of data I saw every year the last 5 or so years...

But apparently the people that work at the dealership - COOP - haven't heard or seen any recalls lol.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-02-2010, 03:38 PM

But apparently the people that work at the dealership - COOP - haven't heard or seen any recalls lol.

some dealership employees are more brand loyal than others. some people have trouble biting the hand that feeds even if that hand is feeding them tainted food. coop seems to be one of them which is his right.

coop's statements in this thread and the many others would be like me saying that the ford 6.0 diesel problems are related to bad maintenance by the owners. just not true, no matter how many times ford tells me that it is. ford can send me all the statements they want but i know better and have no problem saying it like it is. :thumbsup

edit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35200833/ns/business-autos/?GT1=43001

Greg@GLD

02-02-2010, 06:03 PM

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/toyota-should-fix-computer-not-pedals.jpg

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/11/16/toyota-gas-pedal-recall-computer-upgrade/

Toyota's gas pedal "fix" isn't the best solution for preventing run-away throttles.

New gas pedals are probably a cheaper “solution” to this problem, but they’re not the best way to solve the problem.

As you probably know, this all started when Toyota issued a voluntary floor mat recall in late September, 2009 asking owners to remove their driver’s side floor mats pending a more permanent fix. This voluntary recall was in response to a tragic accident involving an out-of-control Lexus that killed four people.

The Lexus that crashed was a loaner car provided by a California Lexus dealership. After a comprehensive investigation, NHTSA concluded that this accident was caused by an over-sized floor mat that interfered with the gas pedal. The floor mat (which was the actual cause of the problem) was not designed for the Lexus it was installed in, nor was it secured. While this accident was tragic, it was NOT a result of a design flaw. It was simply the wrong floor mat.

Nonetheless, NHTSA and/or Toyota have decided to make some sort of change to the design of the gas pedal. Perhaps there is evidence of a more severe problem, or perhaps Toyota feels this is the best way to resolve this issue with the public. While there’s no reason NOT to change the gas pedal design (it’s probably reduces the possibility of a stuck pedal), changing the engine computer software seems like a much better fix. After all, the notorious Lexus loaner car accident wasn’t caused by a poor gas pedal design. There were a number of factors at work:

1. The driver’s floor mats (one on top of another) were too large. It’s certainly possible a smaller pedal would have helped, but the news reported there were TWO floor mats installed, one of which was a big rubber all-weather mat designed for an SUV. Pedal size might not have mattered at all in this particular case.
2. The driver was unfamiliar with the vehicle he was driving (he didn’t know how to shut it off, nor how to put the vehicle in neutral).
3. The driver was in a state of panic.

In all likelihood, none of these problems could have been prevented by a smaller gas pedal. However, ALL of these problems could have been prevented by a software fix that prevented the engine computer from allowing simultaneous brake and throttle inputs. There aren’t any normal driving scenarios where a vehicle’s electronically-controlled throttle should stay open while the brakes are being depressed (that’s a racing-only situation).

In Toyota’s defense, this was a freak accident that could have been prevented any number of ways. If the driver had been more familiar with the car he would have known how to shift into neutral and/or kill the engine. Had the dealership been more careful about the floor mats they used, the pedal might not ever have gotten stuck in the first place. Toyota really shouldn’t have to do anything here…but the negative publicity from this incident has led Toyota to take action.

However, if Toyota is really wants to fix this problem, why not update the engine computers? Toyota is famous for quality, yet this is a half-ass fix.

Sounds too logical....

Reverend Cooper

02-02-2010, 06:43 PM

^ really thats part of the floor mat recall. they are.

Greg@GLD

02-02-2010, 06:48 PM

^ really thats part of the floor mat recall. they are.

Mike, it seems like that would make the most sense, to prevent WOT and brake at the same time...

Reverend Cooper

02-02-2010, 06:49 PM

Reverend Cooper

02-02-2010, 06:57 PM

The pedal fix consists of a shim to keep wearing parts away from each other,some models will get it,and some will get the floormat recall,pedal update and shim with ecm reprogram.
Toyota may not be on the top of everyones list right now but they will come back from this and return to the number one manufacturer in the world again.
Say what you will about the companies screw up,but they are taking care of it and more,whether its the frames on 15 year old trucks,sludge motors or what have you.They are taking care of their customers where most manufacturers would never even think about touching it.
kinda neat how since Gm is owned by Obama now that the approval threw nhtsa took so long and how the media is up in arms and just railing on them,would this happen if Gm was still a private company?
ah doesnt matter GM prolly wont survive the next decade anyways,unless it goes back to private hands,or we keep bailing them out as a country.lolz

Nix

02-02-2010, 06:57 PM

Fuck man, they got sloppy. People need to get over it and accept it. Every car company (and Ive said this a million times like everyone else) fucks up every now and again.

It just happens to be Toyota that is killing people this time.

I just saw on MSN that Ford and Chevy sales have jumped significantly since this happened so some good is coming of this, I guess?

I thought this was kinda funny, lol.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z266/nix2kta/toyota.jpg

Reverend Cooper

02-02-2010, 06:59 PM

Mike, it seems like that would make the most sense, to prevent WOT and brake at the same time...

right it was part of the whole floormat recall all the time,the shimming would need to be done anyhow because of the issues with the sticking pedals.
Do any other companies out there do that in the ecm?

Moparjim

02-02-2010, 07:18 PM

Moparjim

02-02-2010, 07:24 PM

some dealership employees are more brand loyal than others. some people have trouble biting the hand that feeds even if that hand is feeding them tainted food. coop seems to be one of them which is his right.

coop's statements in this thread and the many others would be like me saying that the ford 6.0 diesel problems are related to bad maintenance by the owners. just not true, no matter how many times ford tells me that it is. ford can send me all the statements they want but i know better and have no problem saying it like it is. :thumbsup

edit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35200833/ns/business-autos/?GT1=43001

Ahhh. So since I'm a Chrysler guy this means I can just chalk up things like 2.7L sludging up to people not changing their oil (just like Coop dismissing the Toyota V6 sludge issues). How about Durango ball joints, Jeep and Dodge truck brake rotors? Those are just vendor parts like the Toyota gas pedal right? Wow I like this living in denial thing a lot!

Greg@GLD

02-02-2010, 08:46 PM

right it was part of the whole floormat recall all the time,the shimming would need to be done anyhow because of the issues with the sticking pedals.
Do any other companies out there do that in the ecm?

Ask Marv about this- it's not the same concept as "no WOT when brakes are applied" but there IS some sort of logic in the Spanish Oak programming where it senses "runaway throttle condition" and dumps the car into limp mode. That '05 I bought from SMOKDU would activate this safety when running a full 1/4 mile pass, (like 1 out of ten runs and once or twice when I was playing on the street) and Marv would make some adjustment in the programming. The first time it happened, I called Marv and he explained it to me and said it was a safety calibration. I can't recall all the details, but there was some threshold that had to set a tick higher to get it to not activate in the 1/4 mile. It would take until all the way into near the top of 4th, then the car would lay down and the wrench lite would come on, and then it barely would rev unless you reset it. There was a point where it stopped doing it after the last adjustment he made. I guess it was in the older versions and SCT programmers can do away with it completely, but Marv didn't like to do that...

Greg@GLD

02-02-2010, 08:50 PM

No brake and WOT??? How would one be able to do a brake stand then!!! Or heat up the tires at Da Grove!!!

(Not that any Toyotas other than MAYBE the Tundra have the power or owners that actually still have their testicles to do either...)

I dunno Jim, I do my fair share of burnouts at GLD, I've never had to come close to flooring the gas pedal to either get my burnout started or maintain wheelspin until I drive out of it... I get your point, but I'm just saying... WOT is not required to do a decent burnout. if it is, something's wrong.

jbiscuit

02-02-2010, 08:54 PM

I can say that the Tundra has plenty of power to nuke the tires. The one I test drove broke the tires loose at any sort of quick accel from a stop

BAD LS1

02-02-2010, 09:12 PM

Ask Marv about this- it's not the same concept as "no WOT when brakes are applied" but there IS some sort of logic in the Spanish Oak programming where it senses "runaway throttle condition" and dumps the car into limp mode. That '05 I bought from SMOKDU would activate this safety when running a full 1/4 mile pass, (like 1 out of ten runs and once or twice when I was playing on the street) and Marv would make some adjustment in the programming. The first time it happened, I called Marv and he explained it to me and said it was a safety calibration. I can't recall all the details, but there was some threshold that had to set a tick higher to get it to not activate in the 1/4 mile. It would take until all the way into near the top of 4th, then the car would lay down and the wrench lite would come on, and then it barely would rev unless you reset it. There was a point where it stopped doing it after the last adjustment he made. I guess it was in the older versions and SCT programmers can do away with it completely, but Marv didn't like to do that...

That's correct, GM cars have the same function, which it sets the same codes P1514 or P0068 error as they share that same OBDII code layout. Ive had to move that airflow table on forced induction S197's before so it wouldn't set part way through a dyno pull. And that's the rule of thumb is to set it just out of reach of what the car is capable of in the circumstances you have to work with.This way if you had an over-boost condition it would kill the power so it wouldn't burn its self down. This same issue plagues GM cars and will go into "reduced power".

This wouldn't do shit for a pedal that's stuck to the floor though, as this table ONLY monitors the max airflow the throttle body should be passing at a certain TPS position and RPM. Only if the throttle blade stuck in the bore at 100% and the TPS in the pedal was reading 0%.

Greg@GLD

02-02-2010, 09:20 PM

That's correct, GM cars have the same function, which it sets the same codes P1514 or P0068 error as they share that same OBDII code layout. Ive had to move that airflow table on forced induction S197's before so it wouldn't set part way through a dyno pull. And that's the rule of thumb is to set it just out of reach of what the car is capable of in the circumstances you have to work with.This way if you had an over-boost condition it would kill the power so it wouldn't burn its self down. This same issue plagues GM cars and will go into "reduced power".

This wouldn't do shit for a pedal that's stuck to the floor though, as this table ONLY monitors the max airflow the throttle body should be passing at a certain TPS position and RPM. Only if the throttle blade stuck in the bore at 100% and the TPS in the pedal was reading 0%.

Good info Tom...

CATNHAT

02-02-2010, 09:21 PM

Everyone can give their experiences with any amount of given cars, but it still doesn't change the statistics.

For dependability I still have complete confidence in Toyota. Every manufacturer fucks up from time to time.

"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt."

This example uses the similarity between the way the name of the river, "The Nile" and the theraputic term "denial" sound when spoken (a homophone). It is a humourous way of saying that some one refuses to see what is obvious to every one else, usually as a way of protecting himself from the pain the truth would cause.

animal

02-03-2010, 07:46 AM

Do any other companies out there do that in the ecm?

FTR, your lightning does it to a degree with the ecm. It obviously can't back down on the throttle for you being a cable throttle, but when it senses brakes applied and a wot or near wot throttle position it'll dump the boost through the solenoid to limit power. It'll do the same for nearly any situation in which you hit the limiter. Can be a real bummer... that's why you keep that solenoid unplugged :devil

Maybe toyrota could just install an engine-grenade panic button on the dash in case of runaway throttle. :goof
http://www.spacebums.co.uk/avpack/avpack_images/icons/grenade_icon.png

07ROUSHSTG3

02-03-2010, 08:06 AM

http://gulfnews.com/business/general/japan-receives-complaints-about-brake-problems-with-toyota-s-prius-1.577693

BAD LS1

02-03-2010, 08:11 AM

^^^^^Someone insert that "end of the world as we know it" song in a toyota commercial now! The tree huggers will be in an uproar now that the "what would jesus drive" mobile has a slight issue haha. Ok im done.

Greg@GLD

02-03-2010, 08:36 AM

http://gulfnews.com/business/general/japan-receives-complaints-about-brake-problems-with-toyota-s-prius-1.577693

Ouch... Not the almighty PRIUS!!?!!! :wooo

Moparjim

02-03-2010, 09:41 AM

Ouch... Not the almighty PRIUS!!?!!! :wooo

The Prius is another joke. Regular ole diesel cars get pretty much the same real world mileage, and the Prius batteries are the most environmentally disasterous thing ever put in an automobile. Each Prius has the environmental impact of 1000 Hummers or something like that. Apparently tree huggers are unable to google "Prius envirnmental impact" or "nickel metal hydride" or they would stop buying them. I'm on my phone again so I will post links later lol.

BAD LS1

02-03-2010, 09:45 AM

The Prius is another joke. Regular ole diesel cars get pretty much the same real world mileage, and the Prius batteries are the most environmentally disasterous thing ever put in an automobile. Each Prius has the environmental impact of 1000 Hummers or something like that. Apparently tree huggers are unable to google "Prius envirnmental impact" or "nickel metal hydride" or they would stop buying them. I'm on my phone again so I will post links later lol.

Right on!

TDI FTW!!! They get almost identical highway mileage to a prius and with todays diesel technology, they polute as little or actually less than todays gas engines.

Crawlin

02-03-2010, 10:28 AM

WhatsADSM

02-03-2010, 11:42 AM

I don't mean to be too big of an ass on this one. But I feel some obligation to speak to it because I'm almost positive I have more knowledge about safety electronics than anyone on this board.

Its not a flaw of the computer. It is a mechanical issue!
Just as Toyota mentions in their press releases, its not a software issue. Period. It IS something that could be remedied by a change in safety (or non-safety) software. However the root of the issue is mechanical. It was a poor design in relation to the mechanics on the pedal assembly... Why do you think there is so much talk about the pedal assembly? Sounds like the sensor itself gets physically stuck in a specific position. This is akin to a poor mechanical design in a cable system where the cable physically gets stuck (which BTW as I have mentioned before actually did happen on a previous vehicle of mine).

As for an ECM flash to remedy the issue... Yes it is possible to put a bandaid over the problem and put software in place whereby anytime the brakes are depressed the throttle is only allowed into an idle position. However my gut feeling is that the ECM software itself is considered non-safety certified. So you *technically* can't rely on that fix saving the problem in every situation.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-03-2010, 11:47 AM

Prince Valiant

02-03-2010, 11:49 AM

Pressure for a new probe follows Toyota's recall in January of 2.4 million vehicles for an accelerator pedal defect. LaHood said his agency had to pressure Toyota into taking that action.
not so voluntarily as one may think?Here's the thing...the gov't has the power and authority to compel a safety recall...if the recall was in such an obvious need, and this was as clear cut an issue, why didn't they just do so?

Moparjim

02-03-2010, 12:23 PM

I dunno Jim, I do my fair share of burnouts at GLD, I've never had to come close to flooring the gas pedal to either get my burnout started or maintain wheelspin until I drive out of it... I get your point, but I'm just saying... WOT is not required to do a decent burnout. if it is, something's wrong.

Neither do I, but you have a Shelby and I have a Dodge lol. Pretty sure a Camry owner would need full throttle! :goof

Exitspeed

02-03-2010, 01:17 PM

Neither do I, but you have a Shelby and I have a Dodge lol. Pretty sure a Camry owner would need full throttle! :goof

Pretty sure my Camry won't even do a burnout. :banana

DirtyMax

02-03-2010, 01:48 PM

I have hardly had a free second to follow this on the news or on here. This question may have been asked and/or answered amongst the previous 8 pages so excuse me if it was....

Can a driver whose pedal sticks just turn the key off or shift the car into neutral?

Not that everyone would be that quick on their toes in a panic situation but is this an option?

07ROUSHSTG3

02-03-2010, 01:58 PM

bwahahahaha!! this is great! READ!

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/83184417.html

has some balls if he did it on purpose!

"A man who attempted to return his recalled Toyota pickup truck to All Star Toyota on Airline Highway on Saturday crashed into the dealership building when his allegedly faulty accelerator stuck"

Crawlin

02-03-2010, 02:13 PM

THAT's AWESOME

I definitely wouldn't shut off the car until you got it to the stop. Just like with any other car, shutting it off and losing the power steering isn't gonna be all that fun for many people.

I think just putting it in neutral, and keeping the power brakes and steering until you are to the side of the road and then shut it off. Fuck it, these things have rev limiters, haha.

Reverend Cooper

02-03-2010, 06:44 PM

you guys make me laugh,Your recalls are a coming,and you can talk smack all ya want but they are coming.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-04-2010, 07:35 AM

this prius brake story is getting even better. they discovered the problem, addressed it on the assembly line, but failed to fix the cars that were already sold?!?! they were investigating how to inform the people??? huh?? in the meantime the cars stayed in the hands of customers, on the road, and faulty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35214248/ns/business-autos

at least they told the dealers, lol: "A major Toyota dealership in Tokyo said the automaker had informed dealers that Prius brakes can sometimes fail to work for less than a second but it had not told owners."

Crawlin

02-04-2010, 07:44 AM

you guys make me laugh,Your recalls are a coming,and you can talk smack all ya want but they are coming.

Absolutely... but I bought a chevy expecting their to be issues, hahaha.

Moparjim

02-04-2010, 10:31 AM

you guys make me laugh,Your recalls are a coming,and you can talk smack all ya want but they are coming.

I'm sure they are... Every manufacturer has hundreds of recalls, Toyota included - 567 since 1990, 57 of them on the Camry.

What I am also fairly confident in is that noone is going to clome close to your beloved company's EPIC FAIL the last 5 years.

9 million or so cars in a 3 year period prior to this, up to a 10% recall rate compared to Chrysler's 2.5%. That is 4 times the rate of Chrysler, a company not exactly known for their quality!

Now this one alone looks to be 8 million or so more cars, what is that going to do to their rate?

They have BLOWN AWAY any other company's recall numbers the last five years.

Other indicators of quality - we've discussed the Tacoma, Tundra, Camry issues that didn't make it to the recall list.

JD Power? 7th is far from the 1st that they used to be. The Camry ranks lower than both the GM and Ford midsize cars - beaten by the Malibu, Lucerne, and the Fusion...

Over the last few years they have quietly been dropping off of Consumer Reports and other major "recommended" and "top" lists...
Keep your head in the sand all you want, but you can't dismiss ALL the recent recalls and quality issues as just flukes.

Show me one major quality indicator - recalls, JD Power, media lists that doesn't show Toyota in a major tailspin the last 5 years.

I worked in the auto industry as an engineer for 12 years and read every trade magazine, received every year's JD Power report, read online industry news every day. I had access to engineering specs, comparisons, etc. for every car produced the last dozen or so years. I've been in dozens of auto plants, including Toyota Georgetown and San Antonio. Sure I worked for Chrysler but at least I had the common sense and intelligence to be able to objectively look at the facts. We knew we had plenty of issues, we worked had to try to be better, that's why we benchmarked every other company and studied all that information... We didn't bury our head in the sand and blanketly claim that our cars we the best and every piece of data to teh contrary was a fluke.

Try posting something other than your personal biased opinion that "I work at a dealer and I say its still the best".

07ROUSHSTG3

02-04-2010, 10:33 AM

coop, you are missing the point.

CATNHAT

02-04-2010, 12:30 PM

I'm sure they are... Every manufacturer has hundreds of recalls, Toyota included - 567 since 1990, 57 of them on the Camry.

What I am also fairly confident in is that noone is going to clome close to your beloved company's EPIC FAIL the last 5 years.

9 million or so cars in a 3 year period prior to this, up to a 10% recall rate compared to Chrysler's 2.5%. That is 4 times the rate of Chrysler, a company not exactly known for their quality!

Now this one alone looks to be 8 million or so more cars, what is that going to do to their rate?

They have BLOWN AWAY any other company's recall numbers the last five years.

Other indicators of quality - we've discussed the Tacoma, Tundra, Camry issues that didn't make it to the recall list.

JD Power? 7th is far from the 1st that they used to be. The Camry ranks lower than both the GM and Ford midsize cars - beaten by the Malibu, Lucerne, and the Fusion...

Over the last few years they have quietly been dropping off of Consumer Reports and other major "recommended" and "top" lists...
Keep your head in the sand all you want, but you can't dismiss ALL the recent recalls and quality issues as just flukes.

Show me one major quality indicator - recalls, JD Power, media lists that doesn't show Toyota in a major tailspin the last 5 years.

I worked in the auto industry as an engineer for 12 years and read every trade magazine, received every year's JD Power report, read online industry news every day. I had access to engineering specs, comparisons, etc. for every car produced the last dozen or so years. I've been in dozens of auto plants, including Toyota Georgetown and San Antonio. Sure I worked for Chrysler but at least I had the common sense and intelligence to be able to objectively look at the facts. We knew we had plenty of issues, we worked had to try to be better, that's why we benchmarked every other company and studied all that information... We didn't bury our head in the sand and blanketly claim that our cars we the best and every piece of data to teh contrary was a fluke.

Try posting something other than your personal biased opinion that "I work at a dealer and I say its still the best".

Hard to argue with that post.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-10-2010, 02:05 PM

seems that the story is still continuing. the lobbyists are in washington having closed meetings, the commercials are on tv, andthe cars are getting fixed. just a link to an interesting article. if you don't want to read it, don't click it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-toyota-lawyer-tells-abc-news-automaker-hides/story?id=9751262

the guy could be full of shit who knows, but he is certainly painting a bad picture.

jbiscuit

02-10-2010, 03:20 PM

Conspiracy!! BCM has uncovered the truth! Thank god for the wisemen of BCM. Have you guys thought about starting a petition party? To stand up against big bad Toyota that lies to you. Maybe offer baked good and Pampered Chef items for sale at a discount to get people to show up :rolf

Reverend Cooper

02-10-2010, 06:43 PM

LOL the guy is a mental headcase,lets believe him OMG what are you guys gonna come up with next. Kinda like how GM lied about all the deaths in their trucks and Fords exploder problem. come on guys. Eric you have no point all of you guys are throwing stones in a glass house.
Your right Toyota is going down the tubes and will never recover lol. the best cars GM ever had were toyotas and doesnt Ford use our Hybrid stuff? lol

Reverend Cooper

02-10-2010, 06:47 PM

Reverend Cooper

02-10-2010, 06:49 PM

coop, you are missing the point.

No I see your point and don't have to agree with it.

88Nightmare

02-11-2010, 12:56 AM

so just how many people died from Chevy truck failures? You keep mentioning it, but I haven't seen any facts. I'm not taking any sides here, but at least these guys are posting up plethora's of links

07ROUSHSTG3

02-11-2010, 08:15 AM

No I see your point and don't have to agree with it.

no coop. you must not see it. you admitted there is a problem in the pedals, how ever critical of you (sarcasm intended). talk to some other toyota dealership employees around the country, the ones that do not wear toyota underwear. not on the company forums, in the real world. many are pissed at how toyota handled this whole situation. it is going to ultimately end up costing them money, the dealers, not toyota. you guys are the ones that will lose out here. how much did your dealership gross over the last 3 weeks. who;s fault is that? where does that blame go...i sure wouldn't blame you or your dealership.

if you think that toyota handled this whole situation 100% honestly and in the right, then so be it, your opinion. i think that you are smarter than that though. there has to be a little bit of coop that wishes that toyota handled it differently, that part just isn't allowed to post on BCM.

as for throwing stones. I will throw stones all I want. I do not live in a glass house, i live in a wooden house with vinyl siding. Start a thread about Fords recent major fuck ups, i will be right there with you. here are some topics for you: the 6.0 or 6.4 diesel, the tranny issues on the escapes/mariners, the contour/mystique, the horrible fuel economy of the 5.4, the ball joints being garbage on the superdutys, the horrible seat material used on the explorers, the shitty brakes on the 06-08 milan/fushion, the horrible towing characteristics of the expeditions, the bad handling of the focus', the squeeks and rattles in the new focus', the bad rear ends in the early 00s explorers, the spark plugs seizing in the 5.4, ford denying warranty for using aftermarket filters, the f450s being too small for the towing capacity that ford claims, the lame ass mustangs put out from 94-2004, the shitty v6 that ford used in the stang forever, the ford taurus coil springs breaking and blowing tires, ford not paying for new struts when said coil springs break, the shitty coil paks that ford uses that when hit with even a little water they fry, the new age mercury cougar, bad 7-pins on the new ford trucks that cause MILs, ford using continental tires, bad differential paks in many 8.8s, junk rims used on numerous vehicles, late 90s rust on body panels, the ford flex, the cvt tranny, the ford particulate filters clogging, the bad alignments that the new f150s left the factory with, and so on.

i am not a blind brand loyalist like you apparently are. i am critical of every manufacturer, whether it be cars, snowmobiles, tires, the candy bar i eat or the soda i drink. i am just entertained by this whole debacle and find it an interesting topic.

<---- done posting about toyota so people don't get butthurt.

88Nightmare

02-11-2010, 11:16 AM

don't forget the early 5.4's launching spark plugs out of the head lol

07ROUSHSTG3

02-11-2010, 11:21 AM

don't forget the early 5.4's launching spark plugs out of the head lol

oh yeah, or the manifolds rusting where the block was made incorrectly :thumbsup ford has some great ideas, that is for sure.

88Nightmare

02-11-2010, 11:32 AM

or if you go back even farther, everything about Ford's 2.9L V6 is pretty laughable. From the valvetrain to the head design, and the valve cover damn near making contact with the exhaust manifold. how the hell is a rubber valve cover gasket expected to withstand the heat of an exhaust manifold?

but what about dodge's transmissions?

or GM's intake gasket problem? or dex-cool in general?

lordairgtar

02-11-2010, 06:20 PM

Ford's 3.8 V6 with the water tubes in the intake manifold that will get loose and back out causing leaks. All car makes have their issues now and then, but Toyota sure has endured the shit storm lately.

Reverend Cooper

02-12-2010, 12:46 AM

no coop. you must not see it. you admitted there is a problem in the pedals, how ever critical of you (sarcasm intended). talk to some other toyota dealership employees around the country, the ones that do not wear toyota underwear. not on the company forums, in the real world. many are pissed at how toyota handled this whole situation. it is going to ultimately end up costing them money, the dealers, not toyota. you guys are the ones that will lose out here. how much did your dealership gross over the last 3 weeks. who;s fault is that? where does that blame go...i sure wouldn't blame you or your dealership.

if you think that toyota handled this whole situation 100% honestly and in the right, then so be it, your opinion. i think that you are smarter than that though. there has to be a little bit of coop that wishes that toyota handled it differently, that part just isn't allowed to post on BCM.

as for throwing stones. I will throw stones all I want. I do not live in a glass house, i live in a wooden house with vinyl siding. Start a thread about Fords recent major fuck ups, i will be right there with you. here are some topics for you: the 6.0 or 6.4 diesel, the tranny issues on the escapes/mariners, the contour/mystique, the horrible fuel economy of the 5.4, the ball joints being garbage on the superdutys, the horrible seat material used on the explorers, the shitty brakes on the 06-08 milan/fushion, the horrible towing characteristics of the expeditions, the bad handling of the focus', the squeeks and rattles in the new focus', the bad rear ends in the early 00s explorers, the spark plugs seizing in the 5.4, ford denying warranty for using aftermarket filters, the f450s being too small for the towing capacity that ford claims, the lame ass mustangs put out from 94-2004, the shitty v6 that ford used in the stang forever, the ford taurus coil springs breaking and blowing tires, ford not paying for new struts when said coil springs break, the shitty coil paks that ford uses that when hit with even a little water they fry, the new age mercury cougar, bad 7-pins on the new ford trucks that cause MILs, ford using continental tires, bad differential paks in many 8.8s, junk rims used on numerous vehicles, late 90s rust on body panels, the ford flex, the cvt tranny, the ford particulate filters clogging, the bad alignments that the new f150s left the factory with, and so on.

i am not a blind brand loyalist like you apparently are. i am critical of every manufacturer, whether it be cars, snowmobiles, tires, the candy bar i eat or the soda i drink. i am just entertained by this whole debacle and find it an interesting topic.

<---- done posting about toyota so people don't get butthurt.

Eric,I'm by far butthurt lol you guys,sit there bag on Toyota all you want,I don't make them,i just find it laughable again until the glass house statement you and others make it seem like Ford.Gm and Chrysler make the best cars ever.
How could they have handled it better? They launched the floor mat recall which was proven to be the crash related issue,then when testing for that Toyota also found the issue with the sticking pedals,contrary to the crinminal liberal media the pedal shim issue has not been linked to any deaths or accidents.
So again how else would they have known,or done something faster.
Any manu. can have the same issue with the mats but Toyota is doing something about it why is that?
And as far as gross? our service dept is so far ahead of out best month its unreal,car sales are down but used car sales are up and we still have 10 other models that are still selling,plus a majority of the new ones now are updated.
Like I said before other companies should be happy this may help keep them around for awhile.lol
There are more domestic recalls headed your way.

88Nightmare

02-12-2010, 02:40 AM

I've never seen any other car's floormat kill someone before. Only issue I've ever had, with OEM or aftermarket floormats is when it gets bunched up under the pedal and I can't press it down.

Reverend Cooper

02-12-2010, 05:40 AM

I've never seen any other car's floormat kill someone before. Only issue I've ever had, with OEM or aftermarket floormats is when it gets bunched up under the pedal and I can't press it down.

thats part of the issue,people ar doubliing up mats some are tripling them. the lexus that killed four had completer wrong,to big of mats in the car tha caught on the peddle.
Just be cause you have never seen it doesnt mean it hasnt happened,the new design willl make it virtually impossible for it to ever happen again.

Waver

02-12-2010, 10:19 AM

Lets just face it...........ALL CARS ARE JUNK some are just not as big of a junk pile as others. Why? because they are made by the most imperfect machine out there, Man

88Nightmare

02-12-2010, 11:21 AM

actually nick, man is still the best machine. any machine on this earth was built by man. designed, built, and programmed by man. a machine is only as good as the man who built it.

nismodave

02-12-2010, 12:00 PM

Waver

02-12-2010, 12:54 PM

actually nick, man is still the best machine. any machine on this earth was built by man. designed, built, and programmed by man. a machine is only as good as the man who built it.

But man is still flawed as well......therefor, because of that, no vehicle will ever be perfect. Hence why they say there are Monday cars and Wednesday cars

88Nightmare

02-12-2010, 01:01 PM

and friday cars lol

Exitspeed

02-12-2010, 01:22 PM

I find it funny that you see the Domestic loyalists here, JUMP on Toyota.

Every manufature has had Major problems over the years, Exploding Tires, Exploding Gas Tanks, Junk Transmissions, ETC ETC.

I think Toyota is doing the best they can to get this handled.

I do too. It's pretty comical. Especially because there has been countless studies over the years that statistically show that Toyotas and Hondas are far more dependable cars. Now that the domestic loyalists have some ammo they won't stop talking about it.

They all have issues at some point.

I am not a loyalist to any brand. I choose to not be so blind.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-16-2010, 02:46 PM

interesting article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35422148/ns/business-autos

BAD LS1

02-17-2010, 08:08 AM

Heard on the radio this morning that Corolla's will possibly be recalled soon for Power steering issues...

animal

02-17-2010, 09:16 AM

So how many jobless people on monster.com are former toyota QA personnel? :)

Plum Crazy

02-17-2010, 09:21 AM

I've never seen any other car's floormat kill someone before. Only issue I've ever had, with OEM or aftermarket floormats is when it gets bunched up under the pedal and I can't press it down.
i did it in my ram, had slush mats on top for my floor liner, i put it to the floor at a stop light, and the pedal stayed there. I didnt panic or have the car going 120 and die, i was able to turn the key off and pull over before it even went over 55 mph.

Got Boost

02-17-2010, 09:55 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100217/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall :thumbsup

Reverend Cooper

02-17-2010, 08:44 PM

Wow didn't Chevy just have the same one for the Coblats,funny scarcely read a thing about it. lol Obarfma to the rescue

07ROUSHSTG3

02-17-2010, 09:44 PM

Wow didn't Chevy just have the same one for the Coblats,funny scarcely read a thing about it. lol Obarfma to the rescue

there is going to be a "made for cable tv movie" once this saga works out. it is getting a bit crazy.

BAD LS1

02-17-2010, 10:09 PM

there is going to be a "made for cable tv movie" once this saga works out. it is getting a bit crazy.

Yeah and probably will be written and directed by Michael Moore too :goof

07ROUSHSTG3

02-17-2010, 10:13 PM

Yeah and probably will be written and directed by Michael Moore too :goof

:rolf:rolf:rolf

Crawlin

02-17-2010, 10:14 PM

LMAO at tom....

"like the time i outfarted michael moore"

y2kws6

02-17-2010, 10:18 PM

Toyota Corrola now on the list for the steering issue.....

nitrous

02-17-2010, 10:20 PM

Someone needs to make decals for Prius': "I'm not tailgating, my cruise control is broke." (Mocking the "I'm not tailgating, I'm drafting." famous decal for those who don't know)

brotherbenn83

02-17-2010, 11:54 PM

How bout one that says "If you can read this, I haven't crashed yet"

brotherbenn83

02-17-2010, 11:55 PM

Wow didn't Chevy just have the same one for the Coblats,funny scarcely read a thing about it. lol Obarfma to the rescue

The Cobalt is a GREAT value. If you crash one, it doubles as a coffin. Everything in the front end fails on those turds:sway bar links, struts leak, control arm bushings, steering columns. For those that thought the Cavalier was a POS, it looks like a Bentley next to a Cobalt.

DynoTom

02-18-2010, 12:44 AM

Whenever an airplane crashes, investigators focus on the black-box data, which may explain why the plane went down. Though most drivers don't realize it, two thirds of new U.S. automobiles have black boxes, too. They're called "event data recorders." These devices tell the airbags when to deploy, but they also record the car's speed, whether the brake or gas pedal was engaged, and if seat belts were fastened. They've become such a vital tool to car-crash investigators that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has issued new requirements, which take effect in 2012, standardizing exactly what data the devices measure.

SUBSCRIBE Click Here to subscribe to NEWSWEEK and save up to 88% >>
In theory these black boxes could help explain what's causing the sudden acceleration problems that led Toyota to recall millions of vehicles. There's just one catch: Toyota keeps its data secret. Ford, GM, and Chrysler's black boxes use an open platform that allows law-enforcement officials to download data. But only Toyota is able to download the proprietary data off its devices. In fact, there's just one laptop in the entire country capable of reading a Toyota data recorder, and Toyota will download one only under court order, or at the request of law enforcement or the NHTSA.

Though Honda and Nissan also use proprietary data recorders, Toyota's closely guarded system is raising concerns among safety experts. "Every time Toyota downloads these things, they say there's no indication of a problem," says Sean Kane, founder of Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., a consumer safety group. "It's the most opaque system I've ever seen." It's also causing frustration among accident investigators. "Even when they do perform a download, it's usually not that useful," says April Yergin, a Houston-based accident-reconstruction expert. Last month Yergin watched a Toyota rep download data in Southlake, Texas, after a 2009 Avalon hit a tree and landed upside down in a pond, killing all four passengers. A Toyota rep showed up with the special laptop, but it yielded only the car's speed when it struck the tree: 44mph.

Even though Toyota models have had data recorders since 1999, the company downplays the usefulness of the data, saying the devices were intended to aid research on safety systems like airbags. "It was not designed as a tool for accident reconstruction, and we do not believe it yields consistent or reliable data," says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. Toyota says it's supplied data in about 200 accident cases, and just once did the case turn on the numbers.

Regardless, with lawyers across the country preparing lawsuits against Toyota, there's likely to be a clamor for more data. Michigan Rep. John Dingell is interested in the issue, too: his office supplied NEWSWEEK with a Feb. 3 letter he wrote to Toyota's CEO asking if its black-box data could be easily read by people other than Toyota employees—and if not, why? Yergin says, "They're going to be sorry they've made the system so closed." As Toyota's problems move into the courtroom, the company may have to learn to share.

With Mark Hosenball

FoxStang

02-18-2010, 01:40 AM

Save up to 88% on Newsweek, eh? :) ^^^

While it's interesting and somewhat suspicious that Toyota keeps that info locked up, I don't disagree with it. I'm not a huge fan of insurance companies having the option of looking at this data, while I don't drive like a jackass, I have a feeling that they wouldn't hesitate to drop you on some accidents in the future even if you were going 1 mph over the speed limit. Sure, they love to take your money but when it comes time to pay out for seemingly reasonable reasons, it can be a nightmare. It's aspects of technology like this that I'd rather not see.

Will be interesting to see if they pull these for any court cases.

88Nightmare

02-18-2010, 02:39 AM

i did it in my ram

that says it all.....

I have a factory carpeted mat in the TBSS with another carpeted mat ontop. They slide around constantly. And there has never been any interference with the gas or brake.

BAD LS1

02-18-2010, 06:16 AM

LMAO at tom....

"like the time i outfarted michael moore"

Oh im sure there is something in the works, last i heard he drove a prius!

GTSLOW

02-18-2010, 12:18 PM

Nebraska woman sues Toyota over husband's death
February 12, 2010

2010-02-12 17:10:00 PST Los Angeles, CA 90000, United States — (02-12) 17:10 PST Los Angeles, CA (AP) --

A Nebraska widow has filed suit against Toyota in Los Angeles federal court, seeking compensation for the death of her husband in an alleged sudden unintended acceleration accident.

Jacquelyn Donoghue of Holdrege, Neb., filed the complaint against Toyota in U.S. District Court in downtown Los Angeles Friday. The automaker's North American headquarters is located in Torrance.

Donoghue, a 67-year-old nurse, claims her 2006 Toyota Prius suddenly accelerated and went out of control in December 2009, slamming into another vehicle, killing her husband John and injuring her.

Her attorney, Robert Nelson says the Prius is not equipped with a safety feature that can override the electronic throttle.

A message requesting comment from Toyota was not immediately returned.

Reverend Cooper

02-18-2010, 07:11 PM

everyone wil sue now thats just how its gonna work out.

07ROUSHSTG3

02-21-2010, 08:17 PM

i hate to keep bumping this because it is "beating a dead horse", but this is a soap opera!!

By KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – Toyota officials claimed they saved the company $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall of floor mats in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles, according to new documents shared with congressional investigators.

Toyota, in an internal presentation in July 2009 at its Washington office, said it saved $100 million or more by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota — Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.

The documents could set off alarms in Congress over whether Toyota put profits ahead of customer safety and pushed regulators to narrow the scope of recalls. Two House committees are holding hearings this week on the Japanese automaker's recall of 8.5 million vehicles in recent months to deal with safety problems involving gas pedals, floor mats and brakes.

The world's largest automaker has been criticized for responding too slowly to complaints of sudden acceleration in its vehicles, threatening to undermine its reputation for quality and safety.

The documents were turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and obtained by The Associated Press on Sunday. The presentation was first reported by The Detroit News.

Toyota said in a statement: "Our first priority is the safety of our customers and to conclude otherwise on the basis of one internal presentation is wrong. Our values have always been to put the customer first and ensure the highest levels of safety and quality."

Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the top Republican on the Oversight Committee, said the documents raise questions on "whether Toyota was lobbying for less rigid actions from regulators to protect their bottom line."

Transportation Department spokeswoman Olivia Alair called the document "very telling. And that's why Secretary (Ray) LaHood has been saying we're going to hold Toyota's feet to the fire and make sure they do what's necessary to make their cars safe for the driving public."

The new documents show the financial benefit of delay. In the presentation, Toyota said a phase-in to new safety regulations for side air bags saved the company $124 million and 50,000 man hours. Delaying a rule for tougher door locks saved $11 million.

On defect regulations, the document boasts that Toyota "avoided investigation" on rusting Tacoma pickup trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigated the case in 2008 but closed it without finding a safety defect. Toyota agreed to buy back certain rusty pickups, inspect other and extend warranties.

The document lists seven "Wins for Toyota & Industry," including "favorable recall outcomes," "secured safety rulemaking favorable to Toyota" and "vehicles not in climate legislation." Another page lists "key safety issues," including "Sudden acceleration on ES/Camry, Tacoma, LS etc."

In one passage, the document says Toyota "negotiated 'equipment' recall on Camry/ES re SA; saved $100M+, w/ no defect found."

NHTSA had launched an investigation in March 2007 over allegations that floor mats were interfering with accelerator pedals. Toyota told the government a month later that there was "no possibility of the pedal interference with the all-weather floor mat if it's placed properly and secured."

By that August, the government had connected the problem to a dozen deaths and a survey of 600 Lexus owners discovered 10 percent reported sudden or unexpected acceleration. But the recall in September 2007 was limited to 55,000 Camry and ES350 vehicles to replace the floor mats.

The 10-page internal presentation was dated July 6, 2009, less than two months before a high-speed crash near San Diego killed a California highway patrol officer and his family and reignited concerns over sudden acceleration in Toyotas.

In October 2009, Toyota issued its largest-ever U.S. recall, involving about 4 million vehicles, over concerns of pedals getting stuck in floor mats.

The presentation lists Yoshi Inaba, Toyota's chief executive in North America, on its cover. Inaba is scheduled to testify before the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Wednesday, along with Toyota president Akio Toyoda and Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA. The committee is also expected to hear from LaHood, NHTSA Administrator David Strickland and safety advocates.

The Oversight Committee is holding a hearing Tuesday with Lentz, LaHood and Strickland. A Senate committee is planning a March 2 hearing.

Toyota has said it will create an outside review of company operations, do a better job of responding to customer complaints and improve communication with federal officials.

Separately, the government said Sunday it was already investigating reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles when the nation's largest auto insurer shared complaints about the issue.

The Transportation Department released documents showing that in December 2003 it began investigating 39 complaints of sudden acceleration involving 2002-03 Toyota Camry sedans. That was about three months before State Farm shared with NHTSA complaints of sudden acceleration in 2003-04 Lexus ES300s and 2002-04 Camrys.

The document released by LaHood said the department had received allegations of 26 crashes and 4 injuries involving drivers complaining of their vehicles surging when backing up, pulling in and out of parking spaces and shifting gears.

Reports of deaths in the U.S. connected to sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles have surged in recent weeks, with the toll of deaths allegedly attributed to the problem reaching 34 since 2000, according to new consumer data gathered by the U.S. government.