Got the Cobra Setup w/Meth...

[Fast SVT]

Just sharing...I do feel like a traitor going from GM to Ford.

;)



Results, oddly the meth addition increased boost readings by about 1.5# over what was expected.

And to think everyone said meth is useless on twin screws.

Cooling results were 20-30 degrees cooler than without meth read from IATs. Solenoids ran just before the TB and staggered.

Just so no one forgets this is on PUMP GAS. Great work by Bob and crew. I'm still not home yet but will have the graph up soon.

Raw peak numbers do a poor job of showing the amount of under the curve power the race tune has...ft/lb is the only indicator.

Race 20psi = 632rwhp / 592rwtq
Street 18psi = 626rwhp / 564rwtq
Autobahn 18psi = 595rwhp / 542rwtq

Also the autobahn tune will double as my open track tune. It is uber safe and focused on cooling.

Edit: Graph

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/FastFLHX/Cobra/DynoSheet.jpg

[Prince Valiant]

Why would people say meth is useless on twin screws.

[HY35F2T]

Ill run you.......from a roll on the autobahn tune i get the hit lol.

[Fast SVT]

Why would people say meth is useless on twin screws.

That is what I thought, but trust me, it is a common perception.

People say it is useless because the drop in temps isn't as great as a non-intercooled setup or turbo's/prochargers etc...

Temps did drop with the meth kit and it provided the Octane boost we were looking for (i.e. tuning on 93 as if it were race gas..well not quite race gas but close).

Also much cheaper to run meth than race gas mixed with 93. E85 is the best of them all but you have to hope you live near a gas station that sells it and I travel too often to go that route.

[Prince Valiant]

It's one of those things where the energy required for a phase change from liquid to gas is the same given the same amount of volume of liquid methane. One would think that if all the other variables are the same (IE, volume of air, temp of air where the methane is being injected, and volume of methane), the temps will come out the same...while twin screws may produce much more heat than a turbo or procharger, meth should still give a sizeable reduction in temps.

Maybe they just think that the temp drop isn't enough to offset the considerably greater heat gain from the twin screws , or that methane alone isn't enough to offset that.

Either way, it's amazing how often conventional thinking is wrong, eh? Good job proving it wrong, lol.

[WhatsADSM]

Great numbers for 93.

[BAD LS1]

I really kinda want one of these cars as a project once... This would be the ONLY mod motor mustang worth doing any work to.

And are you using pure meth? or the ***** meth/water mix?

[BOSS LX]

I really kinda want one of these cars as a project once... This would be the ONLY mod motor mustang worth doing any work to.

Maybe in stock form Tom.

Nice numbers! Kurgan knows his stuff.

[Dr.Buick]

nice numbers. Meth works great HADit on my gn now its in the malibu

[Fast SVT]

I am running a mix...I talked to a few people and the power difference going 100% isn't worth it plus I read some scientific articles I have no understanding of that says that the optimal mix, scientifically, is 60/40.


Edit: I am embarrassed to admit it but after racing the auto GTO for so long I have some work to do with this manual Cobra.

lol!

[BAD LS1]

I am running a mix...I talked to a few people and the power difference going 100% isn't worth it plus I read some scientific articles I have no understanding of that says that the optimal mix, scientifically, is 60/40.

It goes against my understanding to mix it with water, when methanol is a very high octane fuel and has a great heat latent all by its self, so why inject something that doesnt chemically add power or burn for that matter?? Beside the shit is so cheap, i used to go to walmart and clean out the yellow bottles of heet and fill as needed. Not to mention that shit turns even more corrosive when combined with water.

[Fast SVT]

KB says it has no effect on their blowers. Let me find the article I read...it is a vendor article but I searched other sources that confirmed that straight meth isn't the be all end all and that the water plays an intimate role....

Edit: This is one article but not the one that talks about optimal mix:
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/WM101.pdf


http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html



1. Maximum Torque occurs at a 13.2:1 Air Fuel Ratio.
2. Transitional Fueling and Maximum Boost Air Fuel Ratios are about 12.5:1.
3. Water Injection is most efficient with a 50/50 water alcohol (or methanol) mixture.
4. Methanol, as an additive, is not a practical choice as it is prone to pre-ignition in higher than 50/50 percentages, is not safe to handle, and is not readily available. It's a good choice, but not necessarily the most practical one when you need some in a hurry. Methanol is usually found where racing fuels are sold.
5. Denatured (ethanol) alcohol, typically 95% pure, is available in paint, hardware, and Home Depot type stores in gallon containers for about $10.00. Expensive but available everywhere. Isopropyl alcohol can be used but it is often 30% or more water by content.
6. Water Injection allows ignition timing to be more aggressive or closer to stock. In other words boost does not automatically mean retard your timing.
7. Excessive amounts of ignition retard will cause a loss of power and overheating.
8. Water to Fuel ratios should be based on weight and not volume.
9 . Water weighs 8.33 lb per gallon.
10. Alcohol weighs 6.63 lb per gallon.
11. Air weighs .080645 lb per cubic foot. It takes about 150 cubic feet of air per 100 horsepower. It takes about 12 lb of air per 100 horsepower.
12. Water or Water / Alcohol to Fuel Ratios are between 12.5% to 25%. This means Air to Fluid Ratios are between 11.1:1 and 10.0:1 with water injection.
13. Maximum water delivery should be in higher load low to mid rpm ranges tapering somewhat at peak rpms where load is less.
14. Atomization of the water mixture is directly related to it effectiveness. Finer droplets cool the inlet charge better and with less mass they navigate the inlet plenum easier for more equal water distribution.
15. Don’t flow water through an intercooler.
16. Atomized water, just like fuel , does not like to make turns thus making accurate distribution something to think about. This is why port fuel injection is the norm. Water is a fluid just like your fuel. Using two staged nozzles at high pressure is the best practical solution. Using individual port nozzles is a bit complicated for a large # of cylinders and makes control difficult.
17. The introduction of water will allow higher boost pressures to be run without detonation. Higher pressures will increase torque. It’s always about torque.
18. Racing high octane gasoline should be used for all forms of competition and for higher than normal boost levels. Water injection as well as charge cooling should be used with racing gas. 91/92 Octane pump gas simply will not cut it. Water spray cooling of the intercooler is a good idea.
19. Fuel Injectors operate in the 1 Millisecond range (.001 second) and are not capable of long term usage for H20 as they will corrode or rust shut in a very short period of time. Unless a solenoid can open as fast as a fuel injector it should not be used to "pulse" water injection events as flow is not directly related to "duty cycle".
20. Varying voltage to water injection pumps or using similar schemes is a recipe for disaster. You have to eliminate the variables, not increase them.
21. Fuel Injection pumps cannot be used for water injection. Water is conductive. Gasoline is not. Water will corrode an efi pump shut in a very short period of time.
22. Water injection has a cooling effect on the engine head, valves, and cylinder. Exhaust temperatures (EGT) are largely unaffected at recommended water / fuel ratios.
23. The cooling of potential hot spots in the combustion chamber defeats pre-ignition, the most destructive form of uncontrolled or unplanned combustion.
24. Higher static compression ratios will require a higher percentage of water or water / alcohol.
25. No, water does not burn. We are not combusting the hydrogen in the H2O.
26. At around 13.2:1 or fuel air ratios of .75, EGT’s will peak.
27. People will try to selectively edit their way to get you to use water injection by stating "One can basically double the power output of an engine using water/methanol" and "It was used effectively in Formula 1 before being banned for adding too much power". This is pure bunk. Water or water/alcohol/methanol does not make power...superchargers and turbochargers make power. The cooling effect of the water injection only allows you to run higher boost pressures and leaner mixtures without engine damage. The increased density or higher pressure ratio is what makes the power, not the water. The last time we checked water wasn't a very good fuel. Water Injection definitely does not give "a 5-15% increase in fuel economy" as some marketers clain.
28. Ferrari suspended water in their fuel during their 1980’s Formula1 period. We don’t recommend that you try this...although Acetone will mix with water.

[BAD LS1]

KB says it has no effect on their blowers. Let me find the article I read...it is a vendor article but I searched other sources that confirmed that straight meth isn't the be all end all and that the water plays an intimate role....

The water slows the burn rate, thus having more control over abnormal combustion events with stupid high cylinder pressure. Provided you can atomize it good enough it "shouldnt" make it loose power. The one KB setup i had experience didnt gain shit from methanol injection, mainly in part because the intake temps were still nearly 200 degrees after the fact, couldnt get any timing into it to make cylinder pressure.

[Fast SVT]

The water slows the burn rate, thus having more control over abnormal combustion events with stupid high cylinder pressure. Provided you can atomize it good enough it "shouldnt" make it loose power. The one KB setup i had experience didnt gain shit from methanol injection, mainly in part because the intake temps were still nearly 200 degrees after the fact, couldnt get any timing into it to make cylinder pressure.

Bob said he ran this on a stock eaton with no gains as far as air temp, he was shocked my KB unit saw a significant benefit from cooling (i.e. 20-30 degrees measured via IAT2's).

There is probably additional temp gains in the combustion chamber as well which just are not monitored.

All in all though I am happy...better than paying for race gas.

[nismodave]

Another reason why the 03-04 Termys are the only Mustang I would seriously considering buying.

Congrats!

[Fast SVT]

Just stupid how much TQ it made...almost too much...almost.

[BAD LS1]

Bob said he ran this on a stock eaton with no gains as far as air temp, he was shocked my KB unit saw a significant benefit from cooling (i.e. 20-30 degrees measured via IAT2's).

There is probably additional temp gains in the combustion chamber as well which just are not monitored.

All in all though I am happy...better than paying for race gas.

Or Jumping on the E85 bandwagon. Again, awesome results and fortifies the fact this is the only mustang id ever remotely entertain the idea of.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Should be a good little runner. Sounds sweet.
I like shifting 50% of the time and wish I had an auto 50% of the time. Always love the blower whine. :D

[JC70SS]

Fast GTO what are the mods on your car?

[Z28Envy]

Sounds like it's time for a name change

[Fast SVT]

I'm up for a name change to Fast SVT. ;)

2.2L KB, Shorty Headers, Bassani Catback...

[SSLEVO]

And it will still run 11's, haha. Just messing with ya. It is kind of funny that those things will struggle to break out of the 12's with 400+ rwhp. Are you on the stock rear? Those are some sick numbers for just bolt ons and a blower swap, that is for sure.

On a side note, how is the traction with that thing:goof

[PureSound15]

It is kind of funny that those things will struggle to break out of the 12's with 400+ rwhp.

:confused:confused I think there are more than a few folks that will disagree with that. There are N/A cobras running 4.56 gears that get into the high 11's

[Yooformula]

I'm up for a name change to Fast SVT.

I offered when you first changed cars;) we will only change user names now if you swap out cars.:thumbsup

[srt4eh]

nice numbers :)

[SSLEVO]

:confused:confused I think there are more than a few folks that will disagree with that. There are N/A cobras running 4.56 gears that get into the high 11's

I had a bolt on cammed lt1 camaro making 360 rwhp, i was running with bolt on pully/tunned cars all day at 12.2-12.3 up at Rock falls a few years back. They had 4-5 of them from TCstangs up in the twin cities, I don't think a single one of them got into the 11's. Maybe they were shitty drivers, idk. I don't really follow the cobra scene, they are badass cars for the price.

[OxmanWI]

What a slow Mustang, can't even get 700 rwhp! :rolleyes::D

[spooln30]

E85 + blue juice...... Hint. Is a great mix.

[1320PNY]

Looks from the graph that it will be a handful. Nice numbers. I love the fact that everyone loves their own car and would never entertain the thought of change until someone does something cool with another car. I too was all GM before 2006, but now I won't be going back any time soon.

[Fast SVT]

By far the fit and finish is no where near the GTO I had and the GTO was eye pleasing on the inside. The Cobra is just a brute and looks like a true muscle car on the outside. I have not been able to redline it at all with the cold roads and winter tires it has on now without tossing the rear end out....I have to short shift the hell out of it.

[OxmanWI]

How about some pictures now, jeez you're going to have us drool over your numbers but not the car? Post em up!

[Fast SVT]

I only have shitty ones right now but here you go:

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/FastFLHX/Cobra/_MG_6024.jpg

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/FastFLHX/Cobra/IMG_5975.jpg

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

I agree the GTO interior was much better. The interior in my car feels like a black hole.
Myself ? I bought a powertrain. I didnt really care about the rest, almost like a Dodge Cummin's owner, buy an engine and settle for the rest. :)

RE: The engine bay pics. Got billet ?

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Oh and any IRS mods or upgrades ?

[Fast SVT]

Yeah, came that way, can't say I am all the fond of it but like you said bought a powertrain.

MMS IRS bushes, Steeda IRS brace, subframe connectors, Steeda Tri Ax shifter, 26 spline input shaft

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Sounds like you got a good one. How many miles on the thing ? Original engine ?

[Fast SVT]

Sounds like you got a good one. How many miles on the thing ? Original engine ?

Original motor, 15K miles, 10th Anniversary Edition (2001 total made)...I didn't even know what I was getting with it being a 10th ann....

Interior is immaculate and the exterior only has 1 super small ding in it that I have found so far...I'm sure I'll find more small issues when I claybar/wash/wax it.

I have four modifications I want to do to it still (of course I'll inevitably come up with more).

1) Cobra R front brakes
2) Upgraded CV shafts/stubs
3) CCW SP500's or Turn 8 True Forged Wheels
4) Head Cooling Mod

Eventually I'll likely need a new clutch or trans.

[Deggy]

Nice Termy, and very nice numbers!

[Fast SVT]

Some new pics:

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/FastFLHX/Cobra/IMG_0656.jpg

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/FastFLHX/Cobra/IMG_0658.jpg

[Feature Pony]

Original motor, 15K miles, 10th Anniversary Edition (2001 total made)...I didn't even know what I was getting with it being a 10th ann....

Interior is immaculate and the exterior only has 1 super small ding in it that I have found so far...I'm sure I'll find more small issues when I claybar/wash/wax it.

I have four modifications I want to do to it still (of course I'll inevitably come up with more).

1) Cobra R front brakes
2) Upgraded CV shafts/stubs
3) CCW SP500's or Turn 8 True Forged Wheels
4) Head Cooling Mod

Eventually I'll likely need a new clutch or trans.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3826824551_a40c005360.jpg

True forged wheels FTW!! Steve is a cool guy to deal with :thumbsup

[FoxStang]

Great numbers and very sharp car, did you have any reservations with mods with that millage or did it come pre modified for the most part?