WTF is my car doing!!??

[Voodoo Chick]

I am truly at my wit's end.......all of you out there, if you have ever had any similar problems/experiences or think you know what it could be, PLEASE speak up....here goes: My '89 RS Camaro has been doing this thing where, as you turn her key, the fuel gauge (regardless of how much gas is in the tank) shoots way past the F, and this is the clue-in that the car is then not going to start. Usually, disconnecting the injectors, and trying to start the car, then reconnecting was enough to make the problem temporarily dissipate, and the car would start, and the gauge would go back to normal. That has recently stopped working. Now, I must disconnect only 1 injector, and the car starts.......i have had the car looked over from nose to tail by a VERY good mechanic, he has tested and inspected every conceivable thing, and so far, nothing is showing up.....soooo......what the hell?? Bad injector, possibly? Ground wire? What are we missing? :confused The car has a throttle body, by the way.

[lordairgtar]

Sounds like a problem with the computer thing that monitors the engine fuel controls. Does your check engine light function?

[88Nightmare]

FYI the car has the 305 TBI motor

[Voodoo Chick]

Sounds like a problem with the computer thing that monitors the engine fuel controls. Does your check engine light function?

Check engine light works fine, but it is not coming on when this happens. Once running, the car runs strong.......but, there's no garauntee she'll start back up. Also, the problem seems to be more likely to occur when the car is warm.

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Have you checed the mass air flow sensor? It is located between the air filter and the throttle body.

[Voodoo Chick]

Have you checed the mass air flow sensor? It is located between the air filter and the throttle body.


Yup, all's well with it.

[HY35F2T]

Yup, all's well with it.
You know you dont have a mas air flow sensor right?You have a map sensor.

[Voodoo Chick]

You know you dont have a mas air flow sensor right?You have a map sensor.

Yeah, know what it is, just not exactly what it was called. It's functioning just fine, as tested 3 days ago at the mechanic's shop. This problem is driving me insane.

[HY35F2T]

Yeah, know what it is, just not exactly what it was called. It's functioning just fine, as tested 3 days ago at the mechanic's shop. This problem is driving me insane.
convert it to carb if you dont figure it out.:goof

[Voodoo Chick]

convert it to carb if you dont figure it out.:goof



Oh, if I had the money, that car would have a carburetor put in so fast it wouldn't even be funny. I HATE fuel injection, sensors, computers, and so on......No offense at all to those that enjoy them. I however, DO NOT WANT. :mad: ......oh, and I just went outside to throw out the garbage, and thought what the hell, try the car........she of course started right up. :chair:

[HY35F2T]

Oh, if I had the money, that car would have a carburetor put in so fast it wouldn't even be funny. I HATE fuel injection, sensors, computers, and so on......No offense at all to those that enjoy them. I however, DO NOT WANT. :mad: ......oh, and I just went outside to throw out the garbage, and thought what the hell, try the car........she of course started right up. :chair:
really its not that much money maybe $300 bux Hei disty from vato zone is like $40 afpr aeromotive i have one brand new $50 was $97.Carb just a edlecrap $70.Intake manifold used is the most seeing as your running new sbc heads.Inless you want to try to get it to fit by grinding the 4 center intake bolts and use a older intake manifold.

[Voodoo Chick]

really its not that much money maybe $300 bux Hei disty from vato zone is like $40 afpr aeromotive i have one brand new $50 was $97.Carb just a edlecrap $70.Intake manifold used is the most seeing as your running new sbc heads.Inless you want to try to get it to fit by grinding the 4 center intake bolts and use a older intake manifold.

Seriously, only about $300?? Damn.......I think I might just have to do that ASAP!!!

[93 Coupe]

Because it starts after you crank the motor with the injectors disconnected, it sounds like your having an issue creating fuel pressure. Possibly an issue with the fuel pump, I would tap into the fuel rail somewhere and make sure its consistantly creating adequate fuel pressure when you turn the key to the "on" position.

Can you hear the pump run? Instead of disconnecting the injectors, try toggling the key on then off to create more fuel pressure then see if it starts.

[HY35F2T]

Because it starts after you crank the motor with the injectors disconnected, it sounds like your having an issue creating fuel pressure. Possibly an issue with the fuel pump, I would tap into the fuel rail somewhere and make sure its consistantly creating adequate fuel pressure when you turn the key to the "on" position.

Can you hear the pump run? Instead of disconnecting the injectors, try toggling the key on then off to create more fuel pressure then see if it starts.
No fuel rail on these cars (tbi).All you have to do is cut the metal line or rubber line that comes up on the driverside sub-frame rail and put a t fitting there with a gauge.Dont have to get high pressure line as it wont be over 14-15 psi.


Seriously, only about $300?? Damn.......I think I might just have to do that ASAP!!!


Yeah i did it to my car when i was in highschool cuz i was dumb and throw heads and a stock lt1 cam in it.Then converted to carb instead of fucking with bowl shit tbi.

[wrath]

Likely a bad ground related to the fuel pump/sender. The giveaway is the fact that the gas gauge goes to Full (GM senders operate on 0-90ohms [more like 92ohms when full]). You probably have a floating ground at the sending unit.

[michelle]

Maybe someone has a voodoo model of your car. :goof

[eyeball]

Likely a bad ground related to the fuel pump/sender. The giveaway is the fact that the gas gauge goes to Full (GM senders operate on 0-90ohms [more like 92ohms when full]). You probably have a floating ground at the sending unit.

Or maybe a bad frame to engine or chassis ground. While your at it, check the ground at the thermostat housing. That's the ECM ground and they are frequently corroded.

[Voodoo Chick]

Maybe someone has a voodoo model of your car. :goof

I'm starting to think the car has a voodoo doll of me......I think she secretly hates me for driving her in winter, and wants to drive me to the nuthouse. She's doing a pretty good job, too. :durr

[Voodoo Chick]

The thing that keeps bothering me is the damn fuel gauge. You know on some gauges, past the F, there's a little pic of a gas pump? Well, when the car is doing "the bad, not-starting-thing," the needle goes all the way past that little pic. Not even in the "FULL" position, by WAAAY to the right of it, this is the one VERY consistent thing about the problem. To me, this seems it would have to be a bad ground....that fuel needle is the key symptom, it would seem.....

[Karps TA]

My guess is you have 2 separate problems, that are coincidently happening at the same time. Check out connector C315. The fuel pump power is in cavity C, while the fuel gauge signal is in cavity B (adjacent). Any corrosion or conductivity between the two terminals could explain the erratic fuel gauge function.

For winter I'd take EFI over a carb every single day of the week and 7 times on sunday.

You'll need more then just a carb and a distibutor anyways. You'll need to deal with the higher fuel pressure coming from the EFI fuel pump which is way higher then the 6 psi the carb will take. Not too mention screwing around with the lines and crap. Not worth the hassle for a driver.

[subliminal1284]

Its an electrical problem, youre going to have to get an Ohm meter and start testing wires.

[HY35F2T]

My guess is you have 2 separate problems, that are coincidently happening at the same time. Check out connector C315. The fuel pump power is in cavity C, while the fuel gauge signal is in cavity B (adjacent). Any corrosion or conductivity between the two terminals could explain the erratic fuel gauge function.

For winter I'd take EFI over a carb every single day of the week and 7 times on sunday.

You'll need more then just a carb and a distibutor anyways. You'll need to deal with the higher fuel pressure coming from the EFI fuel pump which is way higher then the 6 psi the carb will take. Not too mention screwing around with the lines and crap. Not worth the hassle for a driver.
That would be why i mentioned i have a afpr return style.And need one power wire for the h.e.i so whats the issue?If thats hassle then yeah idk what to tell yah lol.

[Karps TA]

Does either injector spray when the fuel pump is on but the engine isn't turning?

What is standing fuel pressure? It should be 9-13, but can be run up to about 16 before the stock injectors leak through after the first pulse.

[Karps TA]

The hassle is carbs typically run like shit in the winter. Why not just fix the problem the right way and in the end have a better running car?

If she was modding the motor and doing shit like that I can see making the switch since the stock TBI isn't the most mod friendly induction setup. But if it's a stock anemic 180hp 305 that she drives daily, then what's the point? For $300 she could probably just fix the actual problem instead of hilljacking it.

[HY35F2T]

The hassle is carbs typically run like shit in the winter. Why not just fix the problem the right way and in the end have a better running car?

If she was modding the motor and doing shit like that I can see making the switch since the stock TBI isn't the most mod friendly induction setup. But if it's a stock anemic 180hp 305 that she drives daily, then what's the point? For $300 she could probably just fix the actual problem instead of hilljacking it.
Im not saying to not fix it the so called "right" way.Im saying dont make it sound like its some huge swap that takes a weekend.It serioulsly takes about an hr.

[team beater]

Likely a bad ground related to the fuel pump/sender. The giveaway is the fact that the gas gauge goes to Full (GM senders operate on 0-90ohms [more like 92ohms when full]). You probably have a floating ground at the sending unit.

x2 i would replace the pump and clean up connections

[hrsp]

had i crazy no start on my 3rd gen...nothing with the fuel gauge tweaking though...

it was the V.A.T.S...grrrr

[Voodoo Chick]

Does either injector spray when the fuel pump is on but the engine isn't turning?

What is standing fuel pressure? It should be 9-13, but can be run up to about 16 before the stock injectors leak through after the first pulse.


Fuel pressure is fine (just tested), you can hear the fuel pump engage, and both injectors spray, but engine won't "catch."

[HY35F2T]

had i crazy no start on my 3rd gen...nothing with the fuel gauge tweaking though...

it was the V.A.T.S...grrrr
:):)

[-stew-]

This is better than TV!

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Fuel pressure is fine (just tested), you can hear the fuel pump engage, and both injectors spray, but engine won't "catch."

Sounds like you have a spark problem and a gas gauge problem.
100% you unplugging an injector or 2 does absolutely nothing and that it does make it run/work is wishful thinking/all in your head.
Good luck.

[Voodoo Chick]

Sounds like you have a spark problem and a gas gauge problem.
100% you unplugging an injector or 2 does absolutely nothing and that it does make it run/work is wishful thinking/all in your head.
Good luck.


Nope, not "all in my head." That is actually the only thing that will get the car to start when it happens. No spark problems, gas gauge, unknown as yet......but unplugging the injectors has been one of the consistent things.

[OxmanWI]

Is your battery backwards or bad? If the gauges are acting wacky sometimes that means your battery is done.

[Voodoo Chick]

Battery is fine.....fairly new.