Automotive 12 Biggest Busts in the last decade

[Exitspeed]

Good read. I agree 100% with every one of them.

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/dirty-dozen-biggest-busts-in-last-decade/#2

If I was going to rank them in their failness I'd put them like this:

1. Aztek
2. Sebring/Avenger
3. Tundra
4. Crossfire
5. 500
6. X-Type
7. Pheaton
8. Maybach
9. Ion
10. STS
11. Accord Hybrid
12. Insight

[xFullThrottlex]

My girlfriend has an ION and other then an odd PASSLOCK problem it hasn't been that bad of a car. Otherwise, I agree with the list for the most part.

[Exitspeed]

My girlfriend has an ION and other then an odd PASSLOCK problem it hasn't been that bad of a car. Otherwise, I agree with the list for the most part.

It's that it's a non-dependable car, it's that it's just it's wrong in oh so many ways. The third door that just never caught on, the center gauge cluster that is retarded in any car (although IIRC the ION was the first to be retarded), the cheap rental car interior, that over-all shape, etc. It was just poorly executed from start to finish.

Unfortunately that came out before GM really really got serious about being competitive again. They were just coasting through designs at that point.

[MoCkiN U]

My girlfriend has an ION and other then an odd PASSLOCK problem it hasn't been that bad of a car. Otherwise, I agree with the list for the most part.

ours has that same damn problem. i use it as daily driver/beater now but cant use the key fob for shit now cause the damn car wont start if I use it.

[Nix]

My god is the Aztek a piece of ugly shit. I don't agree with the Sebring/Avenger though, the rest yes. Just my 2 cents.

[jbiscuit]

i loved the tundra when i drove one. Lots of power, easy to drive, great features...I can't believe I read that the HVAC knobs were a "fail" on the Tundra. Who gives a shit :rolf Yes the first ones had some bugs to work out like camshafts breaking but I have a coworker that put STUPID miles on his without any isuues...he has I believe 95K on a 2008

[Cryptic]

My brother's 2007 Tundra CrewMax beats the shit out of any other 1/2 ton 2007 truck around 5.7L. Not sure why that's thrown in as a "bust".

[Flicktitty]

the Tundra shouldn't be on the list.

my mom has a 09 Seqouia that thing is a BEAST, i love everything about it.

i'd be hard pressed to buy any truck or SUV other then a toyota.

[JC70SS]

STS....NO!!

I'd love to have one of those. Maybe I am getting old?

Just another pro-JAP car magazine. Suprised they put the tundra on there.

[zerepdivad]

Any gm ignition switch with passlock is a pile. Pontiacs, impalas, saturns etc. Dealers love fisting people over those.

[johnny--2k]

My brother's 2007 Tundra CrewMax beats the shit out of any other 1/2 ton 2007 truck around 5.7L. Not sure why that's thrown in as a "bust".

This might be why.... Sorry, but I think as a "TRUCK" the tundra is just a joke, more of a tonka toy IMO...

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[Exitspeed]

I don't agree with the Sebring/Avenger though, the rest yes. Just my 2 cents.

Seriously have you seen those cars? They are the DEFINITION of why Chrysler sucks so bad right now.


STS....NO!!

I'd love to have one of those. Maybe I am getting old?

Just another pro-JAP car magazine. Suprised they put the tundra on there.

No. Autoblog is not even close to por-Japanese.

Guys the Tundra is on there because it's failing hard against Toyota's projected sales figures for it. The list doesn't consist of crappy vehicles necessarily, but vehicles that have been a huge bust. Toyota put a LOT into the Tundra and it hasn't even come close to paying off. Add that to the issues both the previous gen had and the current gen and it's a MAJOR blunder for Toyota.


This might be why.... Sorry, but I think as a "TRUCK" the tundra is just a joke, more of a tonka toy IMO...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EWjTbiYo3x0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EWjTbiYo3x0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Aahhahaa, that is hilarious. Another reason it's such a big bust.

[zerepdivad]

That tundra video is just hilarious. They should do that with some of those ones that had the rust recall and see how that goes!

[07ROUSHSTG3]

the Tundra shouldn't be on the list.

my mom has a 09 Seqouia that thing is a BEAST, i love everything about it.

.

so since the seqouia is nice the tundra shouldn't be on the list :confused.

[johnny--2k]

so since the seqouia is nice the tundra shouldn't be on the list :confused.

:rolf

[Flicktitty]

so since the seqouia is nice the tundra shouldn't be on the list :confused.

i'm pretty sure there build on the same chassis. interior is very much the same as well.

i could be wrong but i think it's based off it.

Either way i drove a 09 Tundra with a TRD Intake and Exhaust a few months back,i don't think theres another non performance based truck/suv on the market that could keep up with it.

[Exitspeed]

so since the seqouia is nice the tundra shouldn't be on the list :confused.

He probably thought they were on the same platform since they share the same front end. I don't believe they are though. The Sequoia, Land Cruiser, and the GX are all the the same platform though.


i'm pretty sure there build on the same chassis. interior is very much the same as well.

i could be wrong but i think it's based off it.

Either way i drove a 09 Tundra with a TRD Intake and Exhaust a few months back,i don't think theres another non performance based truck/suv on the market that could keep up with it.

Maybe, but I wouldn't buy a truck to go 0-60. Fast trucks are the stupidest thing to me. I know a lotta people on here dig them but I just think they are retarded. It's like building a 240 for offroading. Sure you could, but why? I dunno. Just my 2 cents.

[Flicktitty]

Toyota unveiled the 2008 Toyota Sequoia at the 2007 Los Angeles Auto Show, with sales beginning that following December. Like the previous Sequoia, the new model is based on the new Tundra. However major differences with the Tundra include a fully-boxed frame, a rear independent suspension featuring double wishbones with coil springs for improved ride comfort and room, and a locking center differential on 4-wheel drive models. The new suspension helps give the Sequoia a tighter turning radius of 19 feet (5.8 m) and allows for a fold-flat rear seat.[2] Toyota stated the new frame is 70 percent more resistant to bending flex with torsional rigidity up 30 percent[3] However, the new model weighs more than 500 lb (230 kg) more than the previous Sequoia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sequoia

[Exitspeed]

Toyota unveiled the 2008 Toyota Sequoia at the 2007 Los Angeles Auto Show, with sales beginning that following December. Like the previous Sequoia, the new model is based on the new Tundra. However major differences with the Tundra include a fully-boxed frame, a rear independent suspension featuring double wishbones with coil springs for improved ride comfort and room, and a locking center differential on 4-wheel drive models. The new suspension helps give the Sequoia a tighter turning radius of 19 feet (5.8 m) and allows for a fold-flat rear seat.[2] Toyota stated the new frame is 70 percent more resistant to bending flex with torsional rigidity up 30 percent[3] However, the new model weighs more than 500 lb (230 kg) more than the previous Sequoia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sequoia

And there you have it. ;) I stand corrected.

[Moparjim]

The Tundra was a horrible flop.

Had all sorts of problems ranging from bad camshafts, terrible transmission issues - they were called the "rumble strip transmission" since whatever the issue was caused it to make a horible rumble strip type noise, the tailgates were breaking off, the box/bed is weak and gets out of square, you name it.

Since it was a Toyota and thus automatically made of gold, the mainstream media hardly said a thing about the problems. Auto industry type websites, mags, media, etc. were the only place to report it.

They sold like 25% as many as they targeted, possibly worse. They also spent a jillion dollars on the new plant, supplier park, and ADVERTISING. Remember you couldn't turn on the TV without seeing an ad - and they were all fantastic bullshit ads as well, depicting the truck doing crazy shit.

The end result was they lost so much money on the truck, and it had so many issues, they went through several waves of layoffs at the brand new plant in San Antonio, and eventually shut production down entirely for like 6-9 months to practically completely redo the plant and truck.

[Cryptic]

That test is kinda silly for 95% of driving that anyone would do. I pulled my 24' enclosed car trailer loaded to the tilt with no issues and without a brake controller. That truck controls weight very well. The 6 speed transmission didn't hunt for gears. It did really well through the Rockies. The cab is quiet and comfortable. It passed my real world test as far as I am concerned. The truck is far from a "bust"

The 2007 F-150 he test drove felt no different than the 1997 F-150 he traded in.


Jim wasn't that the 2006 and prior Tundra? Not the 2007 and later?


2004-2006
http://www.3cwired.com/store/images/tundra.jpg

2007+
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8817/2007tundra128ee.jpg

[WhatsADSM]

yea tundra is a bust because it is not living up to people's expectations simple as that. Sales are low and in many cases they aren't that reliable. IMO the ridgeline is a bust as well, although reliable.

[Cryptic]

Sales are low because truck people are die hard Chevy or Ford.

Hey, guess what... my Chevy truck has issues too... Where do i start?

[jbiscuit]

boy anyone that wants to bash the Tundra sure better have driven one. I'd suggest you do that in fact. I was impressed. Like Andy said, a real WORLD test is a good test. Pulling a trailer. See how it performs!

Don't believe everything you see/hear though boys and girls. The administrator of this "bed bounce test" could have easily set up the course, driving speed etc to create a problem that not ONE of us would every experience in everyday life. You can also create a test to make your product stand out. Or make a competitor's product look worse than yours. Like for instance if Tundra has the best acceleration of any fullsize truck, show ads and test videos that show your product doing what it does best.

Advertising 101 boys and girls!

[Flicktitty]

Sales are low because truck people are die hard Chevy or Ford.

Hey, guess what... my Chevy truck has issues too... Where do i start?

exfuckinactly.

My dad has 05 F150. Truck has so many stupid little problem.

Gear selector lights are out, The black on the F150 badges is completely off,The truck sounds like it's cammed, the exterior temp gauge reads 92 degrees all the time. truck has 25K miles on it. Plus that thing hauling any more then a snowmobile trailer feels like it is starting to struggle, i can't imagine anyone pulling a car.

Mom has a 09 Seqouia with 23k on it Not 1 single rattle,clink nothing. and the pulling power makes it feel like there is nothing on the back of it, i pulled a 6 place snowmobile trailler loaded didn't even notice it was back there.

I too see many American truck buyers either A- Need a truck stronger then what toyota makes (1 ton /diesel) or they just can't see them self in some sort of "Jap Crap"

[Exitspeed]

.

I too see many American truck buyers either A- Need a truck stronger then what toyota makes (1 ton /diesel) or they just can't see them self in some sort of "Jap Crap"

I am not like like obviously. I actually only buy Japanese cars. But I wouldn't buy the Tundra over a Silverado.

Actually I'd buy a Titan over a Tundra. It's gonna do what I need it to do just fine. Any of the full size trucks on the market would do what I need them to do (haul drywall, construction supplies, my boat, the trailer), but I just don't have faith in the Tundra for some reason. I also don't like how it looks personally. Again, I could care less actually how well of goes over continuous speed bumps at 28mph (because that would never happen), or the 0-60, or any serious off roading.

However good the Tundra is, doesn't change the fact that it was a serious bust for Toyota. I'm actually surprised we haven't' heard of any suicides on the Japanese end of things in relation to how big of a failure it's been for Toyota. And yes they DO kill themselves over that kind of stuff in Japan.




Advertising 101 boys and girls!

Here's some now!
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/toyota-tundra-frame-rust.jpg
http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201156f664afb970c-800wi
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/tundra-rust.jpg

Some Toyota Tundra owners are reportedly experiencing inordinately heavy amounts of premature rust, and they want the Japanese automaker to take action to address the problem. WCVB TV in Boston has been investigating the Toyota rust situation for about a year, and they're reporting that at least two dozen 2000-2001 Tundra owners have complained to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Owners of 1995-2001 Toyota pickups say their vehicles had inadequate corrosion protection, and many feel that the automaker should recall the vehicles.

When we mention excessive rust, we're not talking about some corroded quarter panels or a little dusting around the wheel wells. Drivers have complained of trucks so rusty that the frames are cracking, panels are falling off, and, in some cases, the trucks are too unsafe to drive. One owner is reportedly dealing with a power steering rack in need of repair, but the rust is so bad a new rack can't be bolted to the frame. The Boston TV station also investigated the smaller Tacoma for rust issues last year and found several frames that were disintegrating due to excessive corrosion.

For Toyota's part, the station reports that the automaker is buying back select models at 1.5 times their Blue Book value, but there are other truck owners who are still clamoring for resolution. The Japanese automaker says it is investing every case individually and that it's using lessons learned from the Tacoma incident to proactively investigate vehicles made with similar production techniques. Toyota won't comment on how many rust problem complaints it has received. Hat tip to Chris!

[Source: The Boston Channel]

[Cryptic]

Rust HA!
Ford and Chevy know all about that too... I've owned both brands. There's going to be that extreme with every brand with someone who has a terrible experience.

I had rust all the way through the hub of the rotor on my 98' 3/4 ton. Ohh and there a real fvckin joy to replace the way they are joined/connected to the wheel bearing. You pretty much end up destroying the wheel hub/bearing. So there's another 400 bucks in parts. Just to do rotors.
(not my pic, but you get the idea)
http://www.streetriderscustoms.com/frontbrakes15.jpg


Or the time my brakes lines rotted away and I went sailing into red light on my F-150.

[jbiscuit]

at least two dozen 2000-2001 Tundra owners have complained to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Owners of 1995-2001 Toyota pickups say their vehicles had inadequate corrosion protection, and many feel that the automaker should recall the vehicles.

I'll use your own quote since it was brilliant. 2 dozen owners out of HOW MANY experienced severe rusting? I agree this is a problem and it should be remedied. Was it handled in your opinion? Buying back vehicles for MUCH more than they were worth. Is that satisfactory action in your mind? Granted your argument about the Tundra being a bust isn't even the correct model year truck with the rusting frames but we can look past that here since you tried really hard to make a point. :rolf

[Prince Valiant]

I can't take seriously a list of bust/flops that didn't include the '02-04 Ford thunderbird. End of story.

[Exitspeed]

I'll use your own quote since it was brilliant. 2 dozen owners out of HOW MANY experienced severe rusting? I agree this is a problem and it should be remedied. Was it handled in your opinion? Buying back vehicles for MUCH more than they were worth. Is that satisfactory action in your mind? Granted your argument about the Tundra being a bust isn't even the correct model year truck with the rusting frames but we can look past that here since you tried really hard to make a point. :rolf

I said in my post "[Source: The Boston Channel]" I was quoting them. Hence the [Source: The Boston Channel].

the Tundra is a bust. It's been pointed out why. Period.

PS. I own a Camry and is easily the best car I've ever owned. I'm about to roll 210,000k on it. Toyota is a great company. They've made some mistakes recently but it wouldn't stop me from buying a Toyota in the future. I'm not being biased here, I'm merely calling it a bust off of fact.

Fact: They spent a damn fortune building the damn thing and it's failed to come even close to sales expectations.

Fact: They've had serious tranny issues.

Fact: They've had serious rust issues.

Fact: They've had serious driveshaft issues.

Fact: Sales will never be as good as the F150 or Silverado (or even the Ram) because of THESE issues, not the fact it's a Toyota.


I can't take seriously a list of bust/flops that didn't include the '02-04 Ford thunderbird. End of story.

I agree with this statement 100%.

[xFullThrottlex]

It's that it's a non-dependable car, it's that it's just it's wrong in oh so many ways. The third door that just never caught on, the center gauge cluster that is retarded in any car (although IIRC the ION was the first to be retarded), the cheap rental car interior, that over-all shape, etc. It was just poorly executed from start to finish.

Unfortunately that came out before GM really really got serious about being competitive again. They were just coasting through designs at that point.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

My gf's has four doors (Quad Coupe) I actually like the styling of the quad coupes (haha but I am into weird stuff... I do own an el camino.)
I didn't like the gauge cluster at first, but it is really nice at night... the lights from the instrument panel don't strain your eyes and I check my speedometer more in that car haha. I'll give you the interior but then again if that's the requirement for making it a flop... every pontiac g5, saturn vue, chevy cobalt, cavailer, etc are all flops and I see plently of these cars all day long.

and Mockin U ....

If your ever in a bind and have to get somewhere fast.. heat up your ignition key and go on your way. They have a problem with the grease keeping the contacts open and not allowing the car to start.

[Nix]

Seriously have you seen those cars? They are the DEFINITION of why Chrysler sucks so bad right now.

My wife and I owned one for a while. It was previously owned by my fahter inlaw. roughly 136K on it and it never skipped a beat, maybe if the new owner sees this post he may chime in. We never had one problem with that car, I guess we got lucky...

[jbiscuit]

Fact: They've had serious rust issues.


That was the OLDER trucks not this new bodystyle. Completely different :rolf

[Myles]

Andy, no one fucking cares what you think about toyota. Stfu.

[Cryptic]

^ escort lover

[hrsp]

My wife and I owned one for a while. It was previously owned by my fahter inlaw. roughly 136K on it and it never skipped a beat, maybe if the new owner sees this post he may chime in. We never had one problem with that car, I guess we got lucky...

in that article it says 2007-present...which wouldnt include the 98 that you sold me..that yes has been very reliable so far (knock on wood)!!! lol

it now has 146,143 miles...

[hrsp]

the aztek is the worst thing ever!! ugh

[Exitspeed]

AGAIN, the list is not a reliability list. A car can be a bust for a lot more reasons.

[hrsp]

AGAIN, the list is not a reliability list. A car can be a bust for a lot more reasons.

true i was pointing out that it says 07 to present....for that car...

[Nix]

Poop on me. I fail... I still hate the Aztek thing, I remember it had a little shelter/camper option you could hook up to the tail gate when it was open. Garbage... :rolf

[Prince Valiant]

The 07 up sebring showed what a disaster Diamler's handling of chrysler was. Both generations prior were considered excellent cars, both among class leaders when they made their debut (the 95 cirrus/stratus was MT coy, and the 01 sebring/stratus were head of the class their first 2-3 years, until they were getting long in the tooth around 05 MY)....but the 07 was such a letdown by comparison.

The reason I use sebrings as an example of Diamler's mishandling was because the sebring, like the caliber, showed how little diamler knew about lower end cars in the US automarket. They could build great cars for higher end markets, but the average joe stuff, they misread badly.

It also showed how badly they decimated chrysler engineering. Most of their effort went into the "world engine" 4 cylinder, rather than the optional v6's...so the v6's were not as efficient/powerful as they could have been, the trans weren't tuned as sharply as they could have been, and the 4 banger, while decent, was still in a car too large.

Also, chrysler used to have tremendous cash reserves....but most was held/used by diamler for mercedes benefit...leaving chrysler unable to engineer new four cylinder 6 to 8 speed transmission, which would have made the 4 cylinders competitive, perhaps with mid-range v6's.

Styling had always been a big chrysler strength fell by the wayside...again, in the 'merger of equals", many of the old chrysler hands in the styling depts were chased off, leaving them rather directionless. Originally they tried to style the sebring similarly to the 300C...when that wasn't working, they hastily put on a front end resembling the crossfire....to poor effect.

Aside from the styling, handling really fell by the wayside too....whereas the previous gens generally tended to have sharp, crisp handling, the 07 up were wallowy by comparisson. The avengers escaped much of this problem though. The chassis itself is good...but the suspension tunning leaves much to be desired.

They are coming out with a refresh...one that should hopefully address many of the short-comings of the current ones. Revamped styling, new /revamped engines (re-engineered 2.4 "world engines" and the new pentestar v6), and hopefully, a minimum of 6 speeds for all engines.

[theavenger333]

from what i see, Tundra was declared a bust, because ANYTHING toyota has put this much time, effort, development into has succeeded. the goal was for the Tundra to surpass the big 3, or ANY of the big 3, and it hasn't. good truck, but a bust for what they wanted it to become

[Exitspeed]

The 07 up sebring showed what a disaster Diamler's handling of chrysler was...


from what i see, Tundra was declared a bust, because ANYTHING toyota has put this much time, effort, development into has succeeded. the goal was for the Tundra to surpass the big 3, or ANY of the big 3, and it hasn't. good truck, but a bust for what they wanted it to become

OMG some actual sense in this thread.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

OMG some actual sense in this thread.

agreed. some people sure get worked up about nothing. if you like any of the vehicles on the list, good for you.:rolleyes:

[Exitspeed]

agreed. some people sure get worked up about nothing. if you like any of the vehicles on the list, good for you.:rolleyes:

Exactly.

Another car I'd add to the list that came to mind was the GTO.

Naming that car the GTO was one of the biggest blunders GM has made in recent history. Also bumping the HP up 50 hp in one model year was just retarded.

I actually like the GTO (I'd buy one) in either 5.7 or 6.0 but it was a serious bust for GM to say the least.

[Crawlin]

Where the hell is the Thunderbird on that list from Ford? We couldn't GIVE these away when I was at Braeger Ford...

http://www.dreams-cars.org/images/Galerie/Ford/Ford_Thunderbird_2002/Ford_Thunderbird_2002_01.jpg

[07ROUSHSTG3]

Exactly.

Another car I'd add to the list that came to mind was the GTO.

Naming that car the GTO was one of the biggest blunders GM has made in recent history. Also bumping the HP up 50 hp in one model year was just retarded.

I actually like the GTO (I'd buy one) in either 5.7 or 6.0 but it was a serious bust for GM to say the least.

that was brought up right away on another forum that is discussing this list. was brought up by a gto owner nonetheless.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

Where the hell is the Thunderbird on that list from Ford? We couldn't GIVE these away when I was at Braeger Ford...

http://www.dreams-cars.org/images/Galerie/Ford/Ford_Thunderbird_2002/Ford_Thunderbird_2002_01.jpg

yeah, but that was too be expected, so technically not a bust.

[hrsp]

thunderbird...yuck

[BR3W CITY]

My aunt has an aztek...she loves it. It does a few things well that matter to her ; easy rear height for groceries etc, lots of room for storage, big buttons and console, and it sits high up. Its by no means barely even an suv, and ass ugly...but it does work.

My uncle bought a tundra because his company would kick in towards the price if he bought a toyota. He says that its the perfect truck....for people who just like the look of a truck. It doesn't tow shi*t compared to his beat ass 97 chevy. His wife likes it, it DOES ride pretty comfy.

[Cryptic]

It doesn't tow shi*t compared to his beat ass 97 chevy. His wife likes it, it DOES ride pretty comfy.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Unless you're talking about a diesel. My 98 5.7L is no comparison to the Tundra 5.7L

[Exitspeed]

Looks like the Tow Capacity of the 09 Tundra SR5 is 10,400.

A 98 1500HD is 10,300.

At least that's what the internets say.

[VroomPshhTsi]

x2 on the Ion being on that list. After working a summer as a lot attendant for saturn of greenfield, I grew a very large amount of hate for that car.

[BR3W CITY]

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Unless you're talking about a diesel. My 98 5.7L is no comparison to the Tundra 5.7L


Im not commenting based on posted numbers, just on the "butt feel" according to him. He said the Tundra was a great daily with light "truck" use, but just didn't compare when it came to really workin it.

From a start and on the highway, his chevy always felt strong towing his trailer with his jeeps (he collects military jeeps). The Tundra always seemed to be working harder and showing it. The chevy however always rode and acted like a truck; wasn't nearly as passenger friendly.

[Prince Valiant]

A 98 1500HD is 10,300.
Sure about that? I'm not sure the 2500/3500's of 1998 were rated to tow more than 10,500 that year/style truck.

[Exitspeed]

Sure about that? I'm not sure the 2500/3500's of 1998 were rated to tow more than 10,500 that year/style truck.

Nope. That's why I added:




At least that's what the internets say.

[pjturkey]

ya know, I actually liked the styling of the new t-birds. I think they would've been better if they had the headlight brows like the mid-50s t-birds.
I think of all the car companies that went "retro" Ford did the best with the t-bird and mustang. Dodge did a good job styling the Challenger as well.

Does anyone know the numbers on the Charger? Personally I'm not a fan of it. Why does everything Dodge makes now have to look like a Ram?

All that aside, am I the only one here who thinks the new Camaro is ass-ugly? I respect the amount of power it makes but to me, it looks aweful and doesn't do the 1st gen camaro credit. Is it headed for the greatbist list?

[pjturkey]

oops...I meant "great bust list"

[Exitspeed]

ya know, I actually liked the styling of the new t-birds. I think they would've been better if they had the headlight brows like the mid-50s t-birds.
I think of all the car companies that went "retro" Ford did the best with the t-bird and mustang. Dodge did a good job styling the Challenger as well.

Does anyone know the numbers on the Charger? Personally I'm not a fan of it. Why does everything Dodge makes now have to look like a Ram?

All that aside, am I the only one here who thinks the new Camaro is ass-ugly? I respect the amount of power it makes but to me, it looks aweful and doesn't do the 1st gen camaro credit. Is it headed for the greatbist list?

Well styling is subjective so usually styling alone won't make or brake a car. Some vehicles like the Aztek are just that special.

I personally like the Camaro. Styling wise I think it's one of GM's best designs as of late. Plus it's outselling the Mustang every month since it's been out so I don't see it going on any "bust" list for any reason. Especially because it's also a great bang for your buck.

[Prince Valiant]

Nope. That's why I added:Even the '06 HD1500 was rated for 8300. It's only been a recent thing to see 1500's rated for 10K+.

Even many of the 2500/3500 chevy's of that time were around 8500-9500 lbs...Until the durumax came on line, chevy wasn't in the HD towing market as Dodge/Ford were w/ 14+K lbs towing capacities.

[Reverend Cooper]

i'm pretty sure there build on the same chassis. interior is very much the same as well.

i could be wrong but i think it's based off it.

Either way i drove a 09 Tundra with a TRD Intake and Exhaust a few months back,i don't think theres another non performance based truck/suv on the market that could keep up with it.

tundra and the sequoia are identicle except for the bed

[Reverend Cooper]

i cant believe the GTO isnt on there.

[HY35F2T]

This might be why.... Sorry, but I think as a "TRUCK" the tundra is just a joke, more of a tonka toy IMO...

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Ill be sure to stay clear of that road if i ever get a tundra thanks for the heads up:goof

[pjturkey]

The Aztek truly was an abortion, any way you look at it. It sucks that somebody got paid so much money to design it. Also, if Pontiac had made the GTO some sort of rear wheel drive, V-8 Grand Prix, I would have no problems with it. They just slapped the name on another blah-ass car that looks exactly like all the other cars on the road. GM just shouldve went belly-up completely so the couldn't pollute the car market with crap! Ok I'm getting carried away here, sorry.

[Moparjim]

[QUOTE=Cryptic;602987]That test is kinda silly for 95% of driving that anyone would do. I pulled my 24' enclosed car trailer loaded to the tilt with no issues and without a brake controller. That truck controls weight very well. The 6 speed transmission didn't hunt for gears. It did really well through the Rockies. The cab is quiet and comfortable. It passed my real world test as far as I am concerned. The truck is far from a "bust"

The 2007 F-150 he test drove felt no different than the 1997 F-150 he traded in.
Jim wasn't that the 2006 and prior Tundra? Not the 2007 and later?


It was the new 2007 one. I got offered a job down there right as the plant was starting up and was following it pretty closely. I was basically glas I didn't move down there as the housing market dumped right at that time, and I may well have been unemployed, in San Antonio, with two houses one in WI and one down there....

[BOSS LX]

Just so everyone knows, the 2009-2010 F150 is the best 1/2 ton ever made. :rolf

I am not a fan of the 2004-2008 f150, but the new ones are simply awesome!

[SLOWC5]

i'm pretty sure there build on the same chassis. interior is very much the same as well.

i could be wrong but i think it's based off it.

Either way i drove a 09 Tundra with a TRD Intake and Exhaust a few months back,i don't think theres another non performance based truck/suv on the market that could keep up with it.

I'd be willing to guess otherwise...

[SLOWC5]

Just so everyone knows, the 2009-2010 F150 is the best 1/2 ton ever made. :rolf

I am not a fan of the 2004-2008 f150, but the new ones are simply awesome!

2010 F150 HARLEY EDITION
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/02/2010-Ford-Harley_Davidson-F_150.jpg

Nice hood lines..... That is all I am pointing out.

2007 GMC Sierra
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200610/2007-gmc-sierra-all-terra_460x0w.jpg