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davidrab
11-12-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm going to take a look at a Dakota R/T and was wondering what anybody
had to say about the reliability of the 46re tranny (or anything else about a
98 R/T). I've read on the internet that they're not all that great, but I wonder
how widespread it is.

Dave

Plum Crazy
11-12-2009, 09:14 PM
Its hit or miss with Chrysler transmissions, you can go 200k on the original or you could be on number 6 with 120k. Its a crap shoot. Ive been lucky with my ram, so far so good, but it only has 42k on it. Ill ask one of the tranny guys at work, see if there is anything common on those.

Prince Valiant
11-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Depends on maintenance really...it's particular to the fluid you use. Many companies use unique fluids (honda, nissan, ford, toyota...) as does the 46re (requires minimum ATF+3 or +4). Many shops, even some dealers, will simply uses a less expensive universal fluid such as dexron, and simply use a bottle of additives to bring it up to the specs of ATF+4...this usually doesn't work though.

Basically what happens is this...use a fluid that's not recommended, and the transmission clutches and bands slips a little, for which the computer tries to compensate for...this leads to increased wear, more slippage, and greater tightening. In the old "ultra-drive" days (chryslers first computer controlled transmission), failure could occur within 30 miles of the fluid change....

Changing it back can help...when the wrong fluid was used in the old days, the computer had to be reflashed...not sure that this is the case now.

They used to blame the failures on a number of things...primarily not enough fluid circulation in O/D, particularly to the O/D unit itself (there were "fixes", but this wasn't the case), and a check-ball within the trans cooler line that tended to gunk up...turns out, they were misreading the cause of the failures...it was the fluid.

Basically, if you look up an R/T and it's got a good working trans then it should be fine...when you have it serviced, make sure actual ATF+4 is used when flushing the trans.

Prince Valiant
11-12-2009, 10:32 PM
oh, and on the Dak R/T in general, they make some nice upgrade parts for the magnum engine...the engine as it sits, is basically a regular magnum with a little more timing from the factory. At 250hp, they weren't horrible for their time....

there does seem to be some that are really strong, and some that are pretty weak. The weak ones will run mid/high 15's, while strong ones can hit mid/upper 14's.

A good mod recipe is to loose the beer keg manifold (on a 360, they're done making power at 4500 rpm!) for a mopar magnum M1 single plane. True full length headers (the down pipe from the manifolds are crush-bent for clearance to the firewall, but restricts flow/power) with a good exhaust. Upgrade the Throttle body and ECU, and it'll be a good strong truck capable of 13's. Some do 1.7:1 roller rocker upgrade, but I'd just invest 350 bucks and upgrade the cam to a more aggressive unit (hughes engines makes some good ones). Do all that, and you'll have a strong, good handling and braking (for a truck) vehicle for not a lot of money.

davidrab
11-13-2009, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the info:thumbsup

I went to take a look at it and seems pretty nice. It's got ~40,000 miles and I
have this funny feeling that all of those have been used to tow something. I've
always wanted one (well actually wanted a 318 Dakota sport before the R/T's
were out), so I might take a shot at it. I figure if I get it at the right price, I
can always throw a tranny in there if it goes.

It did shift nice. From what I read, they like to "slip" between gears even as a
regular occurance, but this one didn't seem to do it. Who knows, it might
already have a shift kit or something in it. It does have an Airaid intake on it
(which I thought might not be cool because it's at a dealer).

Prince Valiant
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
It shouldn't slip during the shifts...I had a 46re in my Ram SS/T (It was b/w the ram and r/t, but the ram was rated to tow, whereas the r/t has a very low rating due to the tires), and it didn't slip b/w shifts. Those guys who say it occurs regularly are probably the ones using the wrong trans fluid, lol.

70challenger452
11-13-2009, 11:03 PM
My older brother made it 180,000(99 1/2 ton) before his first trans rebuild and I just did the 2nd trans rebuild of my trucks life(1st one was done before I owned it) and I was at 235,000. The most common problem with them is the 2-3 flare, as low as the 2-3 is good, I would assume the trans is in good shape, when I rebuilt my trans, it shifted just fine it was just that my converter was starting to loosen up some I ponied up and did the whole thing, and had my guy hot rod it up a little but with the shift kit and a 5:1 lever. The magnum motors are a lot of fun to play with. My truck stock ran 16.6 and now it should run a high 14. It ran 15.4 in shitty weather before I did roller rockers and the trans to it. A great resource for what to do to your dakota r/t is dakota-durango.com. I don't really post anymore because some of the guys are just retarded shit talkers and don't know what their talking about but you can do a search and find a TON of awesome information. I've got a 360 with a 2BBL M1 Intake manifold, custom made(older bro made it on the lathe) 55mm throttle body, 1.7 harland sharpe roller rockers, no cat and a flowmaster but other wise stock exhaust and thats it, she's a strong runner and should really pick up once I get some headers and an exhaust made up. The one problem with mine is no one really make a decent set for my truck so I'm gunna have to modify a set. I've been around these things for awhile so I know them pretty well, if u have any questions just ask.

Russ Jerome
11-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Make sure it has good/smooth OD engagment, the back half of the trans is the weak link and eat cases if left unrepaired. Repairing the back half (4th gear) takes a bit more work than just snap ring pliers and feeler gauges....not a driveway repair.

There are several running changes, the trans your looking at can be beefed up with newer parts designed for much heavier trucks.

Yeehaw
11-26-2009, 09:48 PM
dad bought his durango with 53k...trans went out at 56k...now with the rebuilt it has 90k and has towed cars and the skidster and no slips

davidrab
11-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Thanks again for all the info guys.

I'm still thinking about the R/T but I should probably get something 4wd. This
would be a lot more fun though :) I don't think they would go down to where
I think it should be anyway. Being the end of the month though (and Nov at
that) I could try and throw them a number.

http://www.bergstromauto.com/used-inventory/1998-Dodge-Dakota/f626d3be7f000001011185e7a756d450.htm

Yeehaw
11-26-2009, 10:01 PM
i wanted a r/t for soo long...then got a diesel...

Plum Crazy
11-27-2009, 07:05 PM
you can get 01-03 Dakota's in 4wd with the 5.9L, i worked on an 02 on Monday with that, it was a Quad cab though.

Or you can do what i did and buy a 1500 Reg cab 4x4 with a HEMI and call it a day.

Moparjim
12-03-2009, 11:27 AM
I had a 98 Dak R/T I believe. Whatever the first year was. It was a great truck for me - zero problems though I only owned it for about 38K miles. When I say zero problems I mean not a squeek not a rattle nothing it was rock solid, drove great, handled great for what it was.

Only reason I got rid of it was I "fell into" a great situation on it. The first year R/Ts Chrysler for some reason backed way off of the towing ratings after the fact. They were originally rated for around what you would think - a little more or about the same as a 318 regular Dakota I want to say like 5-6,000 Lbs or whatever. About a year and a half or so after I had mine, owners all got letters saying they had mis advertised it and they dropped it a ton, like in HALF to like 2,500 Lbs... I worked at Chrysler at the time and noone was willing to tell me why. The leading theory was something unique about the R/T package wasn't holding up under towing - the rim/tire combo, or the performance suspension or something and that there had been failures or lawsuits or whatever.

What Chrysler did to compensate was unreal - they sent a letter and I could either chose like $500 in Mopar stuff, a free 100,000 mile full warranty, or they offered to buy it back. I already had put a tonneau cover and stuff on it so I didn't really need the $500 in accessories, so for the hell of it I checked the buy it back box figuring they would offer some lowball offer since the truck was like 1.5-2 years old by then and had 38K miles on it. Turns out by "buy it back" they meant full original purchase price. Plus taxes. Plus anything I had receipts for like the tonneau cover. So they basically paid me back every cent I had into the truck, I drove it for free all those miles! The only thing I was out was interest paid on the loan. It was also like Fall/Winter so, obviously I jumped on it figuring I would just buy another brand new one in Spring. Somehow I ended up getting distracted and buying a Stealth RT/TT instead so I never ended up with another Dak R/T.

Rumor/Urban Legend has it all the ones they bought back were sent to Mexico and resold there...

68coronet
12-18-2009, 09:53 AM
The other thing to remember is that these transmissions don't circulate fluid in park. One thing I do before I take off in a car that has 727/904/A500... etc is I put it in neutral and let the fluid circulate or I put it in drive and don't move for about a minute or two. I read something about it on a Dodge truck forum plus there was a transmission site that stated the same fact as well.
The other thing that needs to be kept up on these transmissions is the kickdown adjustment plus the bands. Like other haves said the weak link is the overdrive gear going out. I think the best way to solve this is build the overdrive unit stronger. Meaning stronger clutch pack and misc parts. I know the overdrive portion isn't the strongest. Oh yeah one last thing there was problem with the transmission lines on some models so you might want to look at getting those replaced or run new lines plus a separate cooler.

70challenger452
12-18-2009, 07:55 PM
The other thing to remember is that these transmissions don't circulate fluid in park. One thing I do before I take off in a car that has 727/904/A500... etc is I put it in neutral and let the fluid circulate or I put it in drive and don't move for about a minute or two. I read something about it on a Dodge truck forum plus there was a transmission site that stated the same fact as well.
The other thing that needs to be kept up on these transmissions is the kickdown adjustment plus the bands. Like other haves said the weak link is the overdrive gear going out. I think the best way to solve this is build the overdrive unit stronger. Meaning stronger clutch pack and misc parts. I know the overdrive portion isn't the strongest. Oh yeah one last thing there was problem with the transmission lines on some models so you might want to look at getting those replaced or run new lines plus a separate cooler.

Very good point. I've always done this, until I did my trans and had the mod done so it'll circulate in park now, but any stock chrysler trans up until a couple years ago should always at least be given 30 seconds to fill up the converter and such after start up.

Irish
12-18-2009, 08:51 PM
...

68coronet
12-19-2009, 06:16 AM
I have a 5-45rfe on my 04 Ram with a 4.7 and I do this as well. I'm not sure if it has the same issues as the earlier based transmissions but, from what I recall reading it does. There is a mod that can fix this problem but, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head. I think it is a valve body thing but, not sure.

I can tell you if you have 4.7L V8 or 5.7L Hemi truck and like to use nitrous and have a ton of mods like 4.10 or 4.56 gears and you hit 4th gear at the of the 1/4 or on highway run the transmission will not last long unless you either lock it out of O/D which doesn't work on 04 up models because of the the different TCM (Transmission Control Module) or you build the overdrive unit stronger for this type of use. Sharadon? Performance in Minnesota has a 4x4 Rumblebee with a modded 5.7L Hemi Magnum running 12s I believe and had to beef up there 5-45 transmission.

68coronet
12-19-2009, 06:19 AM
Note: On 04 plus models my truck will shift into 4th gear but, not 5th but, on an 03 Dakota with a 4.7 it would stay in 3rd with OD Off. I know this because when I towed with my 04 on flat highways in Missouri I would be running 65 mph and the transmission went to 4th gear if there wasn't much load being sensed by the TPS.

68coronet
12-19-2009, 06:21 AM
oh, and on the Dak R/T in general, they make some nice upgrade parts for the magnum engine...the engine as it sits, is basically a regular magnum with a little more timing from the factory. At 250hp, they weren't horrible for their time....

there does seem to be some that are really strong, and some that are pretty weak. The weak ones will run mid/high 15's, while strong ones can hit mid/upper 14's.

A good mod recipe is to loose the beer keg manifold (on a 360, they're done making power at 4500 rpm!) for a mopar magnum M1 single plane. True full length headers (the down pipe from the manifolds are crush-bent for clearance to the firewall, but restricts flow/power) with a good exhaust. Upgrade the Throttle body and ECU, and it'll be a good strong truck capable of 13's. Some do 1.7:1 roller rocker upgrade, but I'd just invest 350 bucks and upgrade the cam to a more aggressive unit (hughes engines makes some good ones). Do all that, and you'll have a strong, good handling and braking (for a truck) vehicle for not a lot of money.

One thing you forgot to mention is that some of these trucks plus the Rams got a PCM with a program that was called "Death Flash." I can't remember specific years but, that cause poor performance on these trucks plus a few other driveability issues.

68coronet
12-19-2009, 06:31 AM
Depends on maintenance really...it's particular to the fluid you use. Many companies use unique fluids (honda, nissan, ford, toyota...) as does the 46re (requires minimum ATF+3 or +4). Many shops, even some dealers, will simply uses a less expensive universal fluid such as dexron, and simply use a bottle of additives to bring it up to the specs of ATF+4...this usually doesn't work though.

Basically what happens is this...use a fluid that's not recommended, and the transmission clutches and bands slips a little, for which the computer tries to compensate for...this leads to increased wear, more slippage, and greater tightening. In the old "ultra-drive" days (chryslers first computer controlled transmission), failure could occur within 30 miles of the fluid change....

Changing it back can help...when the wrong fluid was used in the old days, the computer had to be reflashed...not sure that this is the case now.

They used to blame the failures on a number of things...primarily not enough fluid circulation in O/D, particularly to the O/D unit itself (there were "fixes", but this wasn't the case), and a check-ball within the trans cooler line that tended to gunk up...turns out, they were misreading the cause of the failures...it was the fluid.

Basically, if you look up an R/T and it's got a good working trans then it should be fine...when you have it serviced, make sure actual ATF+4 is used when flushing the trans.

If you used the wrong fluid for quite some time then you can bet on a transmission failure. The newer units like the W5A580 are very sensitive to fluid levels. In fact, they require you take the vehicle into a service department so that the transmission can be checked for fluid level because there is no dipstick. From what I recall if this unit is 1/2 a quart low I believe the transmission will not shift properly or go into "Limp" Mode.

davidrab
12-23-2009, 11:33 AM
Thanks for all the great info guys.

I decided that while the R/T would be fun, it would somewhat impractical for
me right now. Also the one I saw had low miles and should be taken care of
better than I probably would.

So, I decided to get a 04 Grand Cherokee. It's a Limited, 4.7l, with QuadraDrive.
Seems like a pretty nice vehicle and, while not as useful or fun as an R/T, it
should be OK. Call me crazy, but I've always wanted a QuadraDrive vehicle
since I first read about them.

From what I read, the 545rfe should be better than the 46re but it has the
same sensitivity to fluids (as do the transfer case and differentials).

I have to remember about putting in neutral for a bit before drive. Probably
hasn't been done until now, but at least I can start.

68coronet
12-29-2009, 09:46 AM
Congrats on the Jeep. I had the chance to drive an "Overland" package that had the 4.7 HO in it. It's more than just a small package. The 4.7s are completely different. Look on WK Jeeps for more info. If you ever decide to do any mods to the Jeep a set of HO Cams from your Mopar Dealer will give you the power you need. You should pick up 20 ponies across the board plus extra torque. Mileage shouldn't be affected. Your intake is the same setup as the HO one and your throttle body is fine as the later ones I believe are 68mm vs the earlier 65mm ones on 99-2001 models I think. You may also want to check and see if Superchips has a programmer for your application if you want to go that route. TransGo also has a shift kit (resistor for the 5-45 transmission). Have fun.