Medical marijuana for Wisconsin?

[Goat Roper]

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/10/wis_gov_support.php

I do not recall Doyle saying this but honestly don't care enough to look and see if he did. Somebody here will have an opinion though.

[SSmike1]

my comment, has that idiot ever Stopped getting high????????

Doyle is Totally Brain dead!

[tommyt5078]

I read it earlier and this is the first thing I agree with him on :goof

[Holeshot]

I heard his comments yesterday on NPR. He basically said Dr prescribe far worse legal drugs and didn't see it as a bad thing . I say if it helps a cancer patient why not.

[Prince Valiant]

I'm completely against medical marijuana...it's barely an okay drug for all the ailments that it purports to treat (usually, it's always 3rd-5th best choice as far as "treatment" goes).

Instead, I'm wholly for decriminalization of marijuana....and most all drugs in general. I don't want to see either a "war on drugs" that only incentivizes increasingly criminal behaviour, or treatment for habitual abusers paid for by the society as a whole. Instead, put the cost/consequences on the user...that'll do far more to encourage responsible drug use (IE, hopefully most would sensibly avoid drugs altogether) than anything else you could throw out there.

[Holeshot]

I'm completely against medical marijuana...it's barely an okay drug for all the ailments that it purports to treat (usually, it's always 3rd-5th best choice as far as "treatment" goes).

Instead, I'm wholly for decriminalization of marijuana....and most all drugs in general. I don't want to see either a "war on drugs" that only incentivizes increasingly criminal behaviour, or treatment for habitual abusers paid for by the society as a whole. Instead, put the cost/consequences on the user...that'll do far more to encourage responsible drug use (IE, hopefully most would sensibly avoid drugs altogether) than anything else you could throw out there.

So why not legalize it and tax the shit out of it. Wouldn't that work ?

[BR3W CITY]

might as well allow it..if it helps anybody than its worth it. besides the tax revenue from the buisiness and fees (usually costs 75-125$ to get a medical card in the 13 states that offer it) would help the gov get some extra coin without raising taxes on stuff like registering your ride...again

[TheRX7Project]

Sweet.

[4eyedstang]

so does this mean ill have to pay taxes on my pot farm? j/k

I'm all for it if its for legitimate heath problem like cancer or glaucoma but not for any little thing like headaches ,PMS etc.like in california and you should have to go to a pharmacie not a head shop to "fill your prescription".

[TheRX7Project]

Are you really going to want some crappy no-name-strain pot from Walgreens?

I mean the places out in Cali sell some legitimate stuff, not some home-grown Mexican schwag. Not to mention different strains have different effects, some are more of a "head" high, while others are more of a "body" high. Some strains are better for different things.

Think of it like tires. You wouldn't want to put the same tires on a Corvette that you'd put on a Geo, you wouldn't get the required performance.

[Prince Valiant]

So why not legalize it and tax the shit out of it. Wouldn't that work ?I don't think taxing the crap out of drugs would work very well, as overtaxing a product that could otherwise be brought in cheaper leads to a black market on the item, and reintroduces the criminal elements to procuring drugs again.

Expounding further on medical marijuana, it's no surprise that if there was no "high" associated with the drug, very few would care for that much for what medical effects it has. That's the only reason people make such a big deal for and against medical marijuana.

[4eyedstang]

Are you really going to want some crappy no-name-strain pot from Walgreens?

I mean the places out in Cali sell some legitimate stuff, not some home-grown Mexican schwag. Not to mention different strains have different effects, some are more of a "head" high, while others are more of a "body" high. Some strains are better for different things.

Think of it like tires. You wouldn't want to put the same tires on a Corvette that you'd put on a Geo, you wouldn't get the required performance.

so your saying John Q Pothead is more qualified then a licensed pharmacist ? I'm sure they would be trained in the different verities/uses

the reason i am against "pot shops" is i simply don't want the scum that comes with it in my neighborhood.California is the perfect example for this where there are more pot shops then starbucks in town

[BR3W CITY]

so your saying John Q Pothead is more qualified then a licensed pharmacist ? I'm sure they would be trained in the different verities/uses

the reason i am against "pot shops" is i simply don't want the scum that comes with it in my neighborhood.California is the perfect example for this where there are more pot shops then starbucks in town

[BR3W CITY]

so your saying John Q Pothead is more qualified then a licensed pharmacist ? I'm sure they would be trained in the different verities/uses

the reason i am against "pot shops" is i simply don't want the scum that comes with it in my neighborhood.California is the perfect example for this where there are more pot shops then starbucks in town

In terms of the "licensed pharmacist", ya actually I would expect John Q Pothead to be more qualified. You can get a pharm tech certificate in like 6months thru one of those cutrate online colleges, and the Pharm Techs are the ones who actually tend to handle the distribution of the medication to the customer.
I HIGHLY doubt they would actually train pharmacists in subtle variations in strains, Indica vs Sativa, effects and the like. In my opinion some effects of THC you can't teach, without having experienced them. Honestly I would think a Botanist would be more suited than a pharmacist. I have personally spoken to a number of "Coffee Shop" owners and growers in Amsterdam, most of which could school you on A-Z of bud. Those ARE the people who know every aspect of whats involved.


Prince Valiant: You mention the overtaxing could lead to the creating of a black market. I have to respectfully disagree on this; without the existing laws in place (think full legalization, no restriction) the average value of mj would drop to below $50 an OUNCE! When the current street price avg's $50 for 1/8th of that (if not more!). It could be grown, taxed, marked up for buisiness profit and the end user would still be able to get it for less than the current going rate. Also, since the medical law tends to allow possesion and growth of plants, I don't think any large scale black market would exist as it does today. Who would want to deal with hustlers? When if you REALLY wanted it and REALLY couldn't drum up enough brain cells to get a Medi Card, chances are you could easily pick up from a friend/relative etc. I don't regard that much different than buying a bottle of booze for your younger bro.

[ND4SPD]

So why not legalize it and tax the shit out of it. Wouldn't that work ?

Not really, because we're going to be dealing with a whole host of other issues. What about the teen that just ended up dead basically because his mom was doing drugs with him. The vast majority of abusive family environments involve parents with drug and alcohol problems. Increasing access through legalization will only make the problems surrounding drugs worse. I realize that there are already existing laws against abusing children, etc... but until those laws are being aggressively enforced I see no reason to make things worse just so people can get high without the legal consequences.

[TheRX7Project]

There's not enough pot in every issue of High Times combined to kill someone. You CANNOT DIE from smoking too much marijuana. You simply can't. While a single bottle of Vodka could be enough to kill someone, all the weed in all the fields of all the USA couldn't (solely) cause a single death.

As far as "the types" of people that run marijuana dispensaries, most of them a GOOD PEOPLE running a business. Have you ever been to a "pot shop"? The vast majority of them go out of their way to be a good, legitimate business.

If you're talking about the pot USERS being scum, I'm pretty sure they already live in your neighborhood. I know more people that do drugs than don't... and a lot of them are truly surprising. Just because you smoke pot doesn't mean you can't be a good, upstanding citizen. We're not talking about meth or crack here (and for the record, I used to room with a crackhead who was actually a good guy. Held a job, paid all his bills, never stole anything. He just liked to smoke some crack once in a while).

[Prince Valiant]

Prince Valiant: You mention the overtaxing could lead to the creating of a black market. I have to respectfully disagree on thisOf course overtaxing would create a black market. Anytime you artificially raise the price on an item, especially if it's more than the market is willing to bear, a black market will crop up. If someone can produce essentially the same product and sell it cheaper, while making substatial money on it themselves, they WILL do so.

Cigarettes are a perfect example (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/10/higher-cigarette-taxes-lu_n_96094.html). Take something even easier to produce/distribute such as pot, and the black market would be even bigger.

And though a botanist/growers might be able to speak with considerable knowledge about pot, suggesting that they "...know every aspect of whats involved" is patently false. They may have authority about pot, experience with it's use, but I would not even begin to suggest either of those gives them intimate knowledge of how THC acts on the brain/brian chemistry to produce a high...much less, simply how the brain operates



There's not enough pot in every issue of High Times combined to kill someone.We don't know this...and actually, it's probably false. Just because an OD has never been documented, doesn't mean it's not possible. The fact that no one has OD'd suggest to me that the delivery systems aren't efficient enough.

The fact we can OD on something like water suggest given enough THC, say intraveneously, there is probably an amount at which it becomes toxic.

[BR3W CITY]

^^ ya but you ignored the entire justification. Its ALREADY a blackmarket item, and the medical status would increase availability, and production, and actually LOWER demand...while generally offering a higher quality product. Illegal growers would not bother, if pot was worth much less. I have never seen black market prices be cheaper for the exact same thing (in terms of drugs).. IE Buying OC's on the street is much more expensive that if you were to obtain them with an RX from a drugstore, same with almost any RX drug. If you could go buy a real nice strain (say Strawberry Haze? yummy) from a dispensary for $40-50 1/8th, I really don't see a "price war" against the drug dealers.
Your saying that it would create a huge blackmarket...Its worth so much BECAUSE its illegal (was booze cheap during prohibition?). The blackmarket you fear creating is actually what drives the existing problem...
Were it never banned (keep in mind at one point it was not concidered and elicit substance). There wouldn't be the same money behind it. Greed/profit is what aided in the criminalizing of marijuana, which started as a ban on hemp because William Randolph Hurst (news baron and legendary biz asshole) felt it would threaten his paper and fiber profits.

[Karps TA]

Legalize and tax it. I don't use it, but there's plenty of things I do use that I'd like to see my tax lowered on. When this country finally taxes cig smokers out of buying cigs they are going to need to replace that money from somewhere. And I sure they hell don't want to pay it.

Legalize and tax gambling and prostitution while they are at it as well. People make it sound like it the shit doesn't currently exists. It does, it always will. Matter of fact the people making the rules are some of the biggest customers of all the "illegal" things in this country.

[Prince Valiant]

Its ALREADY a blackmarket item,and per the discussion I was having prior to you disagreeing with me, it hypothetically would be a regular market item that people might try to control demand artificially by making the price excessively high via taxation.



and the medical status would increase availability, and production, and actually LOWER demandIncreasing availability/production decreases demand? :confused



I have never seen black market prices be cheaper for the exact same thing (in terms of drugs).. IE Buying OC's on the street is much more expensive that if you were to obtain them with an RX from a drugstore, same with almost any RX drug.Two problems with this:

1. OC's don't require prescriptions. This is why they are "over the counter."

2. But what you are trying to suggest is this: It's more expensive to purchase Rx drugs w/o a prescription on the black market than with a prescription at a drug store...why? There is no such thing as a white market for rx painkillers w/o a prescription. You are not comparing two like things.

I mean, why then would people go and buy them more expensively on the street if they could simply get it at the drug store? Oh yeah! It's because they actually CAN'T get what they want at the drug store!

Similarly for prohibition...there was no white market for alcohol, thus the black market arose to fill a demand. Since supplies were limited due to the difficulties of procuring/producing the alcohol and the difficulties in maintaining places which to serve them (ie, the speak easy's), low supply + high demand = high prices!

When the supply increased because it became legal to produce again, and you had a flood of legal producers rushing to satisfy demand, high demand + high supply = low prices!


The blackmarket you fear creating is actually what drives the existing problem...
Were it never banned (keep in mind at one point it was not concidered and elicit substance). There wouldn't be the same money behind it. Greed/profit is what aided in the criminalizing of marijuana, which started as a ban on hemp because William Randolph Hurst (news baron and legendary biz asshole) felt it would threaten his paper and fiber profits.It's post like yours that really refutes any arguments some put forth that marijuana has no negative side-effects, particularly to logic, reasoning capacity, or paranoia.

[lordairgtar]

so does this mean ill have to pay taxes on my pot farm? j/k

not for any little thing like headaches ,PMS etc.
I think peopel with severe migraines and severe PMS issues would disagree with you on them being a "little thing".

[4eyedstang]

I think peopel with severe migraines and severe PMS issues would disagree with you on them being a "little thing".

they already make legitimate drugs for these conditions.
weed is pretty much a recreational drug and people use these "conditions" as a exuse to get hi.

[Karps TA]

Yes we must make sure the big drug companies are the only ones making money off of curing people. They always have our best interests in mind.

They are the first ones that are pounding their fists on the table to make the OTC drugs that can make Meth perscription only. Oh wait that's right they are making billions on things like Sudafed which are being bought probably more for illegal reasons, then legit.

[4eyedstang]

what does weed cure?

oh thats right nothing.

[gottwins?]

BTW as far as weed having negative side effects, lets get a grip here...smoking is smoking. Unless digested which I don't know enough about to put down some hard facts it does do damage to your body in one way or another (as far as smoking is considered).

With that in mind, putting it up next to cigs and beer/alcohol it is less dangerous. I would rather have someone high out of their mind with me who is "chill" and just plain ol' high than some intoxicated drunk who more than likely is working off his testosterone.

Also, I have seen people smoke ALL DAY and be just fine...maybe lungs a little soar if they aren't accustomed to it, and I have seen my cousin dying getting his stomach pumped from drinking too much alcohol rather fast...

[Karps TA]

There's no cure for the common cold, but there's a fucking Walgreens on every corner with shelves full of overpriced shit that will make you think it does. I've never taken Nyquil and been magically cured, but I've gotten buzzed and had a great sleep because of it.

Nothing cures a bunch of ailments. But if it relieves the person of the pain for even 15 minutes I'd say it's doing something.

[gottwins?]

There's no cure for the common cold, but there's a fucking Walgreens on every corner with shelves full of overpriced shit that will make you think it does. I've never taken Nyquil and been magically cured, but I've gotten buzzed and had a great sleep because of it.

Nothing cures a bunch of ailments. But if it relieves the person of the pain for even 15 minutes I'd say it's doing something.

Well said...is it just me or do the tablets not have the same effects as the liquid? I would drink the nyquil liquid and get knocked out no matter how badly I was sick, for some reason the tablets make me tired enough to sleep but not to the same extent. :-/

[HP ADDICT]

1. OC's don't require prescriptions. This is why they are "over the counter."

Wait oxycotin doesn't require a prescription???

[BR3W CITY]

Really wasnt looking for a pissing match, NOT the intention. The Hurst shit has a measure of legitemacy to it, Im not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not trying to bitch just seems like your looking at it a bit too personal.

I dont think oxycontin is over the counter as its a highly addictive painkiller..at least not at any pharmacy ive ever seen.

I understand what your saying about prohibition but your saying that when it became legal the supply increased and prices dropped, and I agree. I just think for the mostpart there really isn't a good reason not to allow it. It doesn't make bad people, it really doesn't breed crime (the legal alternative i think would be the preffered choice for most users, as the fear of legal reprocussion would be minimized). I think that the "hard drugs" have a much more signifigant effect on crime, violince, trafficking etc.

This topic probably won't be settled easily.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

what does weed cure?

oh thats right nothing.

Can you prove this as concrete fact?

[70 cutlass 442]

In terms of the "licensed pharmacist", ya actually I would expect John Q Pothead to be more qualified. You can get a pharm tech certificate in like 6months thru one of those cutrate online colleges, and the Pharm Techs are the ones who actually tend to handle the distribution of the medication to the customer.
I HIGHLY doubt they would actually train pharmacists in subtle variations in strains, Indica vs Sativa, effects and the like. In my opinion some effects of THC you can't teach, without having experienced them. Honestly I would think a Botanist would be more suited than a pharmacist. I have personally spoken to a number of "Coffee Shop" owners and growers in Amsterdam, most of which could school you on A-Z of bud. Those ARE the people who know every aspect of whats involved.





This is a HORRIBLE analagy (spelling) A Pharm tech works under direct supervision of a pharmacist, they will dispense a drug that was prescribed fomr a dr. or PAC whos is operating under the supervision of a Dr. Everyone here has either a general or a specific idea of what the drugs intended uses, contradictions, side effect, ect are. To say that you would have to "experiance it" to be a good distrubitor is SHIT. Does this mean that a pharmacist should suffer from ED to dispense viagra, or hypertension to dispense blood pressure meds, or asthema to dispense albuterol.... you get the idea. Think of how many different opiats there are that all can manage pain...... the people who pescribe and dispense these are all fluant with that eash one does and how it works......


Not really, because we're going to be dealing with a whole host of other issues. What about the teen that just ended up dead basically because his mom was doing drugs with him. The vast majority of abusive family environments involve parents with drug and alcohol problems. Increasing access through legalization will only make the problems surrounding drugs worse. I realize that there are already existing laws against abusing children, etc... but until those laws are being aggressively enforced I see no reason to make things worse just so people can get high without the legal consequences.


You will not die form smoking weed.... laced with something is a different story.




1. OC's don't require prescriptions. This is why they are "over the counter."



He was reffeing to Oxyconton.



what does weed cure?

oh thats right nothing.

what does Vicodin, percoset, oxyconton, morphine, fentonal, albuterol, atrovent, paxil, zanex, lithium, acetmpephin..... I could go on, but the point is non of these drugs cures a condition. It will help manage one, possibly saving someones live if used at the right time for the right incident, but THC is being viewed as the same concept.

[lordairgtar]

they already make legitimate drugs for these conditions.
weed is pretty much a recreational drug and people use these "conditions" as a exuse to get hi.
Some people cannot tolerate the "legitimate" drugs, which is why weed is an option.

[lordairgtar]

what does weed cure?

oh thats right nothing.
There is a difference between cure and relief. weed relieves the symptoms of the chemo and radiation treatment of cancer patients. It also relieves the symptoms of migraine and PMS. Never was meant as a cure all, just relief. However, I cannot speak for the glaucoma patients as I don't understand the efficacy of the treatment there.

[Goat Roper]

However, I cannot speak for the glaucoma patients as I don't understand the efficacy of the treatment there.

http://www.glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.php

[madmike]

So let me get this straight, if I am installing headers on my BBC Camaro and bust a knuckle I can go to the Docs and get a bag of weed?

[That_Guy]

I think peopel with severe migraines and severe PMS issues would disagree with you on them being a "little thing".

i get migraines... like something fearce i have cyst in in my brain its not life threatening but i do get awful complete shut down headaches and migraines once a month. i take imitrex and that shit numbs my head..:rolf i couldnt ever see smoking pot curing what imitrex does.

[lordairgtar]

i get migraines... like something fearce i have cyst in in my brain its not life threatening but i do get awful complete shut down headaches and migraines once a month. i take imitrex and that shit numbs my head..:rolf i couldnt ever see smoking pot curing what imitrex does.
Might I remind you that Imitrex is relieving the symptom, not curing it. If it did cure your migraine from the cyst, you'd only have to take it once. Your drug is managing the pain, not getting rid of the cyst.

[That_Guy]

Might I remind you that Imitrex is relieving the symptom, not curing it. If it did cure your migraine from the cyst, you'd only have to take it once. Your drug is managing the pain, not getting rid of the cyst.

i understand that. does pot cure the cyst.. no.. and your point is? it more then numbs the pain. it numbs my who freakin head.:D

[Yooformula]

Might I remind you that Imitrex is relieving the symptom, not curing it. If it did cure your migraine from the cyst, you'd only have to take it once. Your drug is managing the pain, not getting rid of the cyst.

sorry but I suffered from migraines my entire life and no amount of pot was going to stop the tumor in my brain that was causing them. same thing goes for cysts and you are right drugs just treat the symptoms not the cause and pot is no different, it wont treat the cause!

[Yooformula]

When this country finally taxes cig smokers out of buying cigs they are going to need to replace that money from somewhere. And I sure they hell don't want to pay it.

cigs wont ever be gone, the govt has subsidized that industry for too long and gets too much money from them to let it go not to mention being ingrained in this country's history.

[TheRX7Project]

LOL this thread got cleaned up pretty good.

Back on topic, Medi-Pot has been shown to help AIDS patients as well. A lot of AIDS patients have severe lack of appetite, and marijuana is an appetite actuator (i.e. the "munchies"). It won't cure AIDS, but it definitely helps with the problems associated with it (depression, loss of appetite, etc.)

Marijuana may not CURE anything, but it sure as hell does help patients' symptoms for MANY medical problems. I'm not saying give every Tom, Dick and Harry a medi-pot card, but some people surely could benefit from it.

My ex-mother-in-law had a bad heart condition and was in a lot of pain ALL THE TIME. I'd hook her up with some pot sometimes, she'd smoke it, and she'd feel alright for a while. The only other thing able to take her pain away was morphine, and then she would just be loopy and sleep for days. At least with pot she was able to get up and hang out, watch TV, eat, and not think about her teminal heart condition for a while.

Off topic but she had an experimental adult stem cell surgery and is doing 100% better now.