Wisconsin Headlight Laws [Archive]

xopher

10-06-2009, 02:23 PM

So randomly at night, my headlights have been cutting out, although luckily my foglights are working fine. I haven't yet diagnosed it, but I suspect it's the LCM, which I will figure out.

I'm wondering what the actual Wisconsin headlight laws are. I remember hearing about no more than 4 forward facing white lights on at any time while on a public road, brights off if within 500 feet, and needing lights from 30 mins after sunset to 30 mins before sunrise. I'm trying to figure out how legal running foglights only is. Does anyone know the actual law that defines headlights? Or any precedent/story about people running foglights only?

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 02:40 PM

pOrk

10-06-2009, 02:48 PM

In Wi you can get ticketed for running w/ headlights and foglights on in clear conditions, not sure about just foglights...

Waver

10-06-2009, 02:49 PM

I thought foglights were only supposed to be used during the rain/fog. I know in some states that is their law and you could get ticketed for using foglights when it wasnt raining/fog. Easy way to target younger punks/ricers from what I understood of it.

It all depends on where you go from what I understand.....with manufactures like gm making them used for drl's I dont know if that holds true or not.....Where is Twigbert when we need him

88Nightmare

10-06-2009, 02:50 PM

good luck. Police consider foglights as "adverse weather lamps". They technically are not legal to use to replace headlights. Police will argue they often sit too low and arent bright enough (which many vehicles, especially the foglight setup on silverados are super bright), when we all know a lot of the times they are.

The city of west allis pulled me over on hwy 100 for having my low beams AND my fog lights on at the same time. Got a ticket for it too... "Improper use of adverse weather lamps". Give it a shot, but a vehicle driving around with only fogs on and no low beams certainly draws my attention... I imagine it would for a cop too.

Waver

10-06-2009, 02:51 PM

In Wi you can get ticketed for running w/ headlights and foglights on in clear conditions, not sure about just foglights...

Since when? I pass troopers all the time with the headlights and fog lamps on and I never have gotten stopped.

88Nightmare

10-06-2009, 02:51 PM

It all depends on where you go from what I understand.....with manufactures like gm making them used for drl's I dont know if that holds true or not.....Where is Twigbert when we need him

What GM vehicle uses the foglights as DRL's?

And even still, DRL's are NOT a replacement for regular low beam headlights....

Waver

10-06-2009, 02:56 PM

What GM vehicle uses the foglights as DRL's?

And even still, DRL's are NOT a replacement for regular low beam headlights....

Never said that they were replacements for headlights. Most cars that have them turn off the drls when the headlights are on.....Some of them appear to be in the place of where foglamps should be. I dont see how driving with foglamps is a bad thing, since there are a lot of vehicles that come with them from the factory....I think it is more determined by WHERE they are placed. I could see how it could be a slight hazzard on a truck since it has them highte up, bu on a car like a fusion, impala, mustang or camaro, I dont see it.

pOrk

10-06-2009, 03:10 PM

Since when? I pass troopers all the time with the headlights and fog lamps on and I never have gotten stopped.

Look up the statue, most times they wont bother pulling you over for it because its a waste of time. West Allis writes those tickets all the time.

07ROUSHSTG3

10-06-2009, 03:21 PM

i had a buddy that was pulled over because his headlamps weren't on. he just drove home with this DRL's on all the time. was shocked to hear that, but it was at 2:00 AM, i suspect the cop thought he was drinking. ended up getting a fine for no license plate light and a warning on using DRL's as headlamps?!?!?

88Nightmare

10-06-2009, 03:36 PM

Never said that they were replacements for headlights. Most cars that have them turn off the drls when the headlights are on.....Some of them appear to be in the place of where foglamps should be. I dont see how driving with foglamps is a bad thing, since there are a lot of vehicles that come with them from the factory....I think it is more determined by WHERE they are placed. I could see how it could be a slight hazzard on a truck since it has them highte up, bu on a car like a fusion, impala, mustang or camaro, I dont see it.
On my silverado, the foglights cast light out almost as far as the low beams did. Funny this topic was brought up too, because I saw two different Silverados driving around this week doing exactly what this topic asks... using foglights instead of lowbeams :rolf On vehicles like the TBSS, I wouldn't feel comfortable driving with just the foglights on... I don't think they are bright enough by themselves in my opinion

Look up the statue, most times they wont bother pulling you over for it because its a waste of time. West Allis writes those tickets all the time.
100% agree with that. West Allis gave me a ticket for that. $167 and 3 points, and when I tried to fight it, they wouldn't do SHIT :flipoff2:

Waver

10-06-2009, 04:09 PM

On my silverado, the foglights cast light out almost as far as the low beams did. Funny this topic was brought up too, because I saw two different Silverados driving around this week doing exactly what this topic asks... using foglights instead of lowbeams :rolf On vehicles like the TBSS, I wouldn't feel comfortable driving with just the foglights on... I don't think they are bright enough by themselves in my opinion

100% agree with that. West Allis gave me a ticket for that. $167 and 3 points, and when I tried to fight it, they wouldn't do SHIT :flipoff2:

Not saying that I dont believe it, since I got pulled over for not turning on my headlights when leaving a gas station when I first got my license....I do find it wierd that they would write tickets for driving with something that actually improves your outward vision at night.

88Nightmare

10-06-2009, 04:23 PM

Not saying that I dont believe it, since I got pulled over for not turning on my headlights when leaving a gas station when I first got my license....I do find it wierd that they would write tickets for driving with something that actually improves your outward vision at night.

Thats what I argued, but they stood by the law word for word. Adverse weather lamps are to be used only in adverse weather....

Waver

10-06-2009, 04:31 PM

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard....This state is all about saving us from our self lately, and the moment that someone uses common sense to improve their night time vision by 50% or more they use it as a way to get more revenue. West allis has that policy that if you are on highway 100 at a cetrain time, are not 40 or older, and arnt driving say a oldsmobile, then you must be cruising and causing problems.....

03CVLX

10-06-2009, 04:53 PM

Can't really add much other than whats been said already, But I can virtually guarantee you its the LCM causing your issue. :rolf Time for the external relay mod. :thumbsup

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 04:53 PM

It all depends on where you go from what I understand.....with manufactures like gm making them used for drl's I dont know if that holds true or not.....

Nick, name 1 car that GM made that uses a foglight for a drl.

go ahead, I'll wait.:goof

03CVLX

10-06-2009, 04:56 PM

04 Pontiac Grand Prix with the upper half amber DRL/parking lamps and lower half driving lights. :rolf

lordairgtar

10-06-2009, 05:03 PM

I though most DRLs were placed in the main headlight array. I had a Hornet with road rallye lights. These are basically similar to fog lamps but are brighter and usually mounted higher on the bumper top instead of below it. Got pulled over in Columbia County for having them on. Those old Bosch Lamps were indeed bright. You could warm your hands with them on a cold night.

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 05:07 PM

Korndogg

10-06-2009, 05:10 PM

I think it is more determined by WHERE they are placed. I could see how it could be a slight hazzard on a truck since it has them highte up, bu on a car like a fusion, impala, mustang or camaro, I dont see it.

What trucks have high up fog lights? Mine are like a foot and a half off the ground tops.

03CVLX

10-06-2009, 05:17 PM

LOL, right year but that looks like it might be a base model.

On the GT/GTP its a split lower light upper is DRL/Parking lower is a clear driving light.

http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/full-driving.jpg

And according to autozone.com on an 05 Grand Prix the DRL and Parking lamp bulb is the exact same number. Fog lamp is an H11

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 05:45 PM

but again the lower portion is the FOGLIGHT and as clearly depicted in that picture the FOGLIGHT is NOT illuminated but the drl's AND parking lights are! Parking lamp/DRL are both different from a foglight. looking at that headlight, to the very end of the housing is an amber light, that is the parking light, the lower light is the drl, the LOWEST light is the foglight.

PureSound15

10-06-2009, 05:47 PM

Lots of fail in this thread (NutGargler)

I got yanked for driving with my fog & corner lights on - no ticket though.

RanJer

10-06-2009, 05:48 PM

Tom, did you mean this...
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:MmABQJ0ja6TEpM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/04-07_Pontiac_Grand_Prix.jpg
because is this is your example, the FOGLIGHT is the lower light, the big ROUND one and it does NOT come on with the DRL. There is ALWAYS a switch for foglights.

D for effort
F for trying to prove me wrong

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24601
2010 Camaro..

I just looked it up.. and there's a thread on there almost every day about it.

They are technically running lights, they're clear, and in the same position as a fog lamp would be. So I guess I'm wrong, but I'm right too. A cop could confuse that I'd say..

When to your auto mode the so called "fog lights" are on during the day. when you move it over it turns on the halo's and the "fog lights" turn off. move it over one more time the halo's and the headlights turn on.

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 06:15 PM

I am a bit confused now, in this pic I see the halo(driving light/drl) and parking lights lit up not the foglights.

http://www.camarovsmustang.com/images/2010%20Camaro%20Pictures%20(14).jpg

and this one the foglights are lit up. is there a switch for it or not?
http://image.hotrod.com/f/17124250/hrdp_0903w_02_z+2010_chevy_camaro+burnout.jpg

Rocket Power

10-06-2009, 06:26 PM

RanJer

10-06-2009, 06:29 PM

From the sound of it:

Switch Pos:
AUTO - Just the "fogs" are on
1 Click clockwise - The Halos/Parking come on
1 more click clockwise - The Halos/Parking/Headlights are on.

So to the average person that just drives around in AUTO, they can get pulled over at noon for having just "fog lights" on? When it's a factory setting, that people are rewiring themselves to get rid of it.. ?

In AUTO - When it get's dark, the "fogs" turn off and the HIDs come on.

Waver

10-06-2009, 06:36 PM

Nick, name 1 car that GM made that uses a foglight for a drl.

go ahead, I'll wait.:goof

98 chevy s-10 regular cab....ls.....optional fog lamps were part of the turn signal, and that is also where they had the drls. I thought that there were some f bodys that had them, but I can be wrong on that one....

Waver

10-06-2009, 06:38 PM

What trucks have high up fog lights? Mine are like a foot and a half off the ground tops.

I was referring to the height of the truck, since they have higher suspensions......Some trucks do sit up higher than cars....and therefor the foglamps are "higher up"

Rocket Power

10-06-2009, 06:48 PM

Trans 305.075 Auxiliary lamps. (1) Auxiliary lamps
that are fog lamps or adverse weather lamps may not be used in
lieu of headlamps during those times when headlamps are required except as expressly allowed by s. 347.26 (3), Stats. Other
auxiliary lamps may not be used in lieu of headlamps.

347.26(3)(b)
Adverse weather lamps shall not be used in lieu of headlamps unless absolutely necessary in case of rain, snow, dust or fog and then only when a vehicle is equipped with 2 adverse weather lamps mounted on opposite sides of the front of the vehicle and when both such adverse weather lamps are lighted. Whenever any vehicle is equipped with only one adverse weather lamp, both headlamps of such vehicle shall be lighted at all times when such adverse weather lamp is lighted.

Waver

10-06-2009, 06:53 PM

So in english you cant use just the foglamps at night however you can use both at night

PureSound15

10-06-2009, 06:59 PM

So in english you cant use just the foglamps at night however you can use both at night

Did you read it?

There isn't any part of those laws that has anything to do with what time of day it is. Adverse weather means it's shitty outside, not dark.:thumbsup

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 07:06 PM

98 chevy s-10 regular cab....ls.....optional fog lamps were part of the turn signal, and that is also where they had the drls. I thought that there were some f bodys that had them, but I can be wrong on that one....

and no fbodies had foglights for drl's.

no foglights. just a parking light.
http://www.mccullyselectauto.com/Images/1998%20Chevy%20S-10%2072009.JPG
http://www.cargurus.com/images/2009/08/03/19/16/2003-chevrolet-s-10-2-dr-ls-standard-cab-sb-pic-65397.jpeg

here's one with a drl. That would be the little light to the inside of the yellow parking light and the foglight if it had one would be below in the skirt or lower airdam. still no go.
http://images.cars.com/main/MDC/59/443259/6305413436.jpg

maybe this is what you were thinking...even then separate foglight in addition to drl/parking lights.
http://www.jimnohio.com/images/94ChevyS10_AMT8964_94.jpg

wrath

10-06-2009, 07:15 PM

How does the law differentiate between Adverse Weather Lamps and Headlights?

Waver

10-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Did you read it?

There isn't any part of those laws that has anything to do with what time of day it is. Adverse weather means it's shitty outside, not dark.:thumbsup

Does it say anywhere that both headlamps and fog lamps cant be used when it is dark? All I see is that it says that headlamps must be used with fog lamps except for a few exceptions

PureSound15

10-06-2009, 07:25 PM

Does it say anywhere that both headlamps and fog lamps cant be used when it is dark? All I see is that it says that headlamps must be used with fog lamps except for a few exceptions

Yes. It says they can be used during adverse weather. A clear night would not require the use of fog lights.

Waver

10-06-2009, 07:25 PM

I had a buddy of mine with a 98 s-10, green in color, no fog lamps in the lower air dam, with a switch for the foglamps.....head lights were the same as the white s-10 flairside that you pictured....had drls in the same place as the fog lamps.....used a dual bulb, like the main headlights.....It was a rare option for that kind of truck, he had to specially order it. (I think he still has the window sticker)

Waver

10-06-2009, 07:26 PM

Yes. It says they can be used during adverse weather. A clear night would not require the use of fog lights.

But it does not say anywhere that they cant be used on a clear night, just that they have to be used in conjunction with the regular headlights

RanJer

10-06-2009, 07:28 PM

But it does not say anywhere that they cant be used on a clear night, just that they have to be used in conjunction with the regular headlights

Pretty sure the title "adverse weather lamp" should tell you when they should be used.. And people have stated they were given tickets for running both at night on a clear night. So there must be another statute that discusses that.

Waver

10-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Of the two statutes that were posted, I see NOTHING that says that cant be used on a clear night in conjunction with BOTH headlights

PureSound15

10-06-2009, 07:38 PM

Of the two statutes that were posted, I see NOTHING that says that cant be used on a clear night in conjunction with BOTH headlights

Quit while you're trailing miserably behind your fail boat...

unless absolutely necessary in case of rain, snow, dust or fog and then only when a vehicle is equipped with 2 adverse weather lamps mounted on opposite sides of the front of the vehicle

Now... on a clear night is it a) Raining b) snowing c) dusty or d) foggy?

Waver

10-06-2009, 07:46 PM

Ryan, with all due respect..........reread the whole thing.....

Adverse weather lamps shall not be used in lieu of headlamps unless absolutely necessary in case of rain, snow, dust or fog and then only when a vehicle is equipped with 2 adverse weather lamps mounted on opposite sides of the front of the vehicle and when both such adverse weather lamps are lighted. Whenever any vehicle is equipped with only one adverse weather lamp, both headlamps of such vehicle shall be lighted at all times when such adverse weather lamp is lighted.
Last I checked the phrase in lieu was the same as "in place of"......so with that being said it dosnt say anywhere that they cannot be used on a clear night with headlights on as well, and that they can only be used by them self in the case of rain, snow, dust or fog (meaning in weather conditions where having the headlights on could cause a blinding effect such as fog). Now if I am incorrect in the use of the word lieu then I stand corrected, however I dont believe so

Nix

10-06-2009, 07:47 PM

Years ago when I had my 94' Z/28 I got pulled over by the West Allis police. I wasn't crusing at the time, we were on our way Sherpers. The officer pulled me over for "Driving with Fog Lites in Lieu of Headlights". Mind you this was about 8-9 years ago. It was the middle of the summer and roughly 8pm. So it was starting to get dark and some people had their headlights on. My take on it is if the cop is prick he can get you for it. But I see people do it all day long and don't get hassled. I doubt this will help you, just my 2 cents. :)

stealthy1ss

10-06-2009, 08:38 PM

I am not picking sides or helping anyone out but don't the Avalanches have running lights in the fog lights? I have heard of people getting in trouble for using there fogs in normal weather but never around here. I drive all the time at night with my fogs on but I have yet to get pulled over for it.

Yooformula

10-06-2009, 09:30 PM

avalanches have separate fogs and drl/parking lights.
see in pic, foglights are not on.
http://image.trucktrend.com/f/9751417+w750+st0/163_0806_09z+preowned_2002_2006_chevy_avalanche+fr ont_view.jpg

wrath

10-06-2009, 10:31 PM

The "in lieu of" is for when it's snowing or foggy out and you have amber fog lights and turn off your headlights. They are saying when it's clear out you can't use your "adverse weather lamps" instead of your regular headlights.

I suspect this is because you normally aim fog lights really low, low enough that it's difficult to see far enough ahead at highway speeds. But that doesn't matter.

I can't find anything that says you can't have both your headlights, foglights, driving lights, et cetera on. I can find that you are limited by wattage and total number of lights at any given time and that's about it.

Rocket Power

10-06-2009, 11:04 PM

Of the two statutes that were posted, I see NOTHING that says that cant be used on a clear night in conjunction with BOTH headlights

The OP asked about using his fog lights in place of his headlights. So that's what I was looking for in my book . If you'd like to search yourself for the rest, have at it. :goof http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html

xopher

10-07-2009, 02:36 PM

Thanks all for the feedback!

Can't really add much other than whats been said already, But I can virtually guarantee you its the LCM causing your issue. :rolf Time for the external relay mod. :thumbsup
Mother trucker stuck in a ditch! I thought that might be it. I might hit you up for help with it..;)

Trans 305.075 Auxiliary lamps. (1) Auxiliary lamps that are fog lamps or adverse weather lamps may not be used in lieu of headlamps during those times when headlamps are required except as expressly allowed by s. 347.26 (3), Stats. Other auxiliary lamps may not be used in lieu of headlamps.
347.26(3)(b)
Adverse weather lamps shall not be used in lieu of headlamps unless absolutely necessary in case of rain, snow, dust or fog and then only when a vehicle is equipped with 2 adverse weather lamps mounted on opposite sides of the front of the vehicle and when both such adverse weather lamps are lighted. Whenever any vehicle is equipped with only one adverse weather lamp, both headlamps of such vehicle shall be lighted at all times when such adverse weather lamp is lighted.

The OP asked about using his fog lights in place of his headlights. So that's what I was looking for in my book . If you'd like to search yourself for the rest, have at it. :goof http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!! :thumbsup

Rocket Power

10-07-2009, 02:56 PM

You are welcome sir.:thumbsup

BlownMM

10-08-2009, 10:13 PM

lilws6

10-09-2009, 10:26 AM

I've been on hwy many of times with just my fogs on cuz its not dark enough to use the headlamps. Any time i drive my car i have the parking lights and fogs on. when it gets dark out i have the headlights and fogs on. I've had the car for 4 years i havent' once been pulled over for having the fog lamps on. I suppose if someone needed to be a dick they could write a ticket for it but i've never had anything said about the fogs on and i've also been pulled over many of times :rolleyes: For other things.

xopher

10-09-2009, 03:56 PM

Check this out for the LCM repair. In the meantime I heard you can kick the LCM to temporarly get the lights back?

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/u...=4#Post1159835 (http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1159835&page=4#Post1159835)
Yeah, that's a good resource. As for kicking/smacking the LCM, I've gotten that to work twice out of a few dozen times :(

Making my headlights work should cost $300+ :fire Hope I can figure out something cheaper.