Cash for clunkers program to end 7/31 at midnight.....

[Car Guy]

Just heard it on the news, that didn't take long.....:durr

[-stew-]

Awesome! Another fuckstory of the Obama administration!

[Car Guy]

There are also reports that it will be suspended tonight (7/30) at midnight.....:wow

[RanJer]

$779M Estimated funds remaining for all vehicles except for CAT3 Trucks.

$75M Estimated funds remaining for CAT3 Trucks.

Last update 7/30/2009 at 10am eastern time.

* This balance reflects only requests for reimbursement that dealers have entered in the CARS system as of this date.

:goof

[Car Guy]

I'll see your :goof and raise you a :durr

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-07-30-cash-for-clunkers-program-suspended_N.htm

Brakes put on 'cash for clunkers' plan

By James R. Healey and Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
The government is suspending the explosively popular "cash for clunkers" program, fearing it would go broke before it could parcel out what it still owes dealers for a huge backlog of sales, according to congressional offices and a dealer group.
The suspension was confirmed by Bailey Wood, legislative director for the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), which had been called Thursday night by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which administers the program. Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., confirmed as well, saying she had been told by congressional leaders.


"The thing has exploded. It has exceeded everyone's expectations," said Miller, who was involved in writing the original legislation, known as CARS, for Car Allowance Rebate System. "Throughout our history, it has been auto sales that have pulled us out of recession. People are more likely to buy cars than houses. Not to be too Pollyannaish, but we're gettin' our mojo back. This could be the pivot" that begins an economic recovery.

The White House said Thursday night that "dealers and consumers should have confidence that all valid CARS transactions that have taken place to date will be honored."

As of late Thursday, the government had committed nearly all of the program's $1 billion, according to calculations by NADA and various congressional offices. It's unclear whether and how the CARS program could be restarted.

"We're in a full-court press trying to get more cash for 'cash-for-clunkers'," Miller told USA TODAY Thursday night — pointing out she wanted $4 billion for the program, not the $1 billion that was appropriated.

Rep. Betty Sutton, D-Ohio, also a sponsor of CARS who wanted $4 billion, got the news from DOT Secretary Ray LaHood Thursday night, according to Sutton's chief of staff Nichole Francis Reynolds. Reynolds said, "The program's spent $150 million and has another $800 million to $850 million in (pending) obligations… This is one of those programs you can really see working." She says CARS has "overwhelming support" and Sutton was pressing to free more money to continue the program.

DOT could not be reached for comment Thursday night.

Wood said dealers were amazed at how many shoppers visited their showrooms this week. The program has been in effect since July 1, but the details were finalized only a week ago.

The $1 billion was to provide rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for people who traded in older cars rated 18 miles per gallon or less for new ones rated 22 mpg or more. The old cars are scrapped.

Political controversy already has begun over the popular CARS program.

If more money is earmarked for the program, it should require the new cars to get better fuel economy than under the original program, say Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Susan Collins, R-Maine, who both played a role in creating the program.

"We will insist than any extension of the program requires that the minimum fuel economy improvement for newly purchased vehicles be at least two miles per gallon higher than it is under the enacted Clunkers program. It is also important to include lower-income consumers who are disadvantaged under the current program. So, we would also include a voucher for the purchase of fuel-efficient used vehicles," they said in a joint statement late Thursday. "We believe that any extension of the 'Cash for Clunkers' program must go further in advancing the goals of better fuel efficiency and greater emissions reductions. We will not support any bill that does not meet these goals."

Carmakers and dealers have booked expensive advertising to capitalize on buyers' interest in CARS, and now will be left promoting a tie-in with a discontinued government program — one that wasn't supposed to end until Nov. 1. "Disappointed," says Chrysler spokesman Scott Brown..

"It's too late to recall the ads," says Beau Boeckmann of Galpin Ford, the nation's largest Ford dealer, in Los Angeles. Galpin had done about 100 clunker deals and was hoping for more. " We had increased our ad budget to get the word out. We are very heavy on radio, newspaper and getting direct mail together," Boeckmann says.

"Now what do you tell people when they walk in" for a clunker deal? "It's tough."

The program was so popular so fast that dealers overwhelmed the government website and were unable to get requests for the CARS rebates processed. "Every day we spent an hour, hour-and-a-half with the government trying to smooth the process," says NADA's Wood.

Some dealers had stepped back, worried the program would go broke before paying them. "If you don't have an absolute guarantee of payment, you could be left floating a lot of money" in anticipation of federal CARS reimbursements, says Peter Greiner, a Ford dealer in Casper,. Wyo. "They made the right call," says Will Churchill, a Honda and General Motors dealer in Fort Worth. "The government doesn't have any idea how big this deal is."

CARS provided the rebates in the form of electronic funds transfers to dealers, to repay them for the clunker discount they gave buyers. Buyers never saw the cash and didn't have to deal with the federal website.

Rules governing the program totaled 135 pages. They required dealers to register, then to fill out electronic forms after each transaction. Dealers had to guarantee they gave the customer the appropriate discount, that they wrecked the engine in the clunker so it never could be reused, than the non-running junker went to a scrap dealer.

"They keep coming up with new forms to sign," says Churchill.

In the Queens borough of New York, Paragon Honda already hauled away nearly 60 clunkers to a junkyard before it found the rules require them to be disabled on the auto lot. Now they have to be brought back, have their engines destroyed and hauled back.

"Killing cars is not something that I'm used to doing," says Brian Benstock, the dealership's general manager.

Sharon Silke Carty contributed to this report.

[hrsp]

wow

[Karps TA]

I wouldn't say it a failure in any sense. Think of how much inventory was blown out the door this past week. That's put people back to work in factories that have been shut down since spring, and dealerships made some much needed money.

I think it's been a bigger success then I expected it to be.

[Prince Valiant]

I think it was a colossal rip-off that they had to take from taxpayers to give away to others for new cars.

[Crawlin]

Here's my take, cause it's another democrat bullshit program to help the poor....

And when you think about it... the reason why these clunkers are driving around, are because the poor people on SSI can't afford a NEW car. So now you put $3500-$4500 in rebates onto a customer that the banks are looking at downpayments on, and you get them into a car w/ a payment they won't make anyways, at a 25% interest rate cause they have a 500 credit score, and you've done nothing but hurt yourself in the long run again like they did with giving those same people the option to buy a house.

It's all fucking retarded.

I'd wanna see a credit score and bank break down of the people actually taking advantage of this program.

I realize that not ALL will be categorized under my stereotype. Have to bold it so everyone here knows I'm saying it, hahah

But what's 3500-4500 extra gonna do for a payment to a guy on a 20,000 new car, when he couldn't have afforded to purchase the 20k mile USED car that's $12,000.

There's a reason why these junkers were being driven.

[jbiscuit]

I wouldn't say it a failure in any sense. Think of how much inventory was blown out the door this past week. That's put people back to work in factories that have been shut down since spring, and dealerships made some much needed money.

I think it's been a bigger success then I expected it to be.

didn't really put anyone back to work as most of this inventory is shit that has been sitting around for months anyways. A lot of the automakers shut plants down over the past months to avoid flooding the market. If anything, the cash for clunkers program created a buzz on the lots to buy up the cheaper cars and now there is nothing left. Even more priceless were the people that got hosed on the gas mileage averages and got asked to come in and pay the $4500 to the dealer now that they no longer qualify :rolf If I got that call I would tell them where to stick it. I would think they would have a hard time legally getting you to come back in and pay MORE for a car you already have the title for :rolleyes:

[DerangedPony]

"the Detroit Free Press is reporting that White House administration officials alerted Congress this evening (7/30) that the Cash for Clunkers would be suspended, though White House officials have denied the report. Confusion is running rampant at this point, but it seems that the $950 million allocated for reimbursement of passenger car and light truck rebates is all but gone and government officials will spend Friday figuring out how to find more money for the program and untangle the reimbursement process for dealers."

[Karps TA]

didn't really put anyone back to work as most of this inventory is shit that has been sitting around for months anyways. A lot of the automakers shut plants down over the past months to avoid flooding the market. If anything, the cash for clunkers program created a buzz on the lots to buy up the cheaper cars and now there is nothing left. Even more priceless were the people that got hosed on the gas mileage averages and got asked to come in and pay the $4500 to the dealer now that they no longer qualify :rolf If I got that call I would tell them where to stick it. I would think they would have a hard time legally getting you to come back in and pay MORE for a car you already have the title for :rolleyes:

What do you mean? If I have no inventory left, and need inventory that means somebody has to build it. If they went thru all this money that means a shitload of cars were sold. For a billion dollars the govt spent, it put probably 4 to 5 times that into the marketplace in sales. That was money that wasn't been spent, and probably never would have. This was a big enough incentive to get people into dealerships to buy a car. That's huge.

The people who got hosed were MORONS who decided to buy based on something that wasn't even in place yet. They gambled, nobody forced them to have to buy early.

This IMO was one of the best "stimulus" packages the govt has ever done. For once the money actually went to something, and stimulated something. How can you argue that "If the numbers the Department of Transportation claims they received from NADA are true, it would mean over 21,000 work trucks and 242,000 cars were potentially sold" is not a huge success?

[Crawlin]

And let's look at repo averages over the next year. Cause it takes a couple months of missed payments and trying to locate the non-payer.

And for those people that live in WI that bought and the dealers did the assumption thing with the rebates, you have a binding contract. They gave the rebate, the dealership has to eat it.

I've watched an old salesmanager try and beat that problem(giving a large rebate that didn't qualify) and got nothing but "yeah sucks to be you" from the dealership attorney

[Goat Roper]

Awesome! Another fusk fuckstory of the Obama administration!

How is that? Thats like saying the prom queen is a loser. The program was just too popular.

[Exitspeed]

How is that? Thats like saying the prom queen is a loser. The program was just too popular.


I wouldn't say it a failure in any sense. Think of how much inventory was blown out the door this past week. That's put people back to work in factories that have been shut down since spring, and dealerships made some much needed money.

I think it's been a bigger success then I expected it to be.

I agree with these guys.

Dealers that haven't sold shit for cars for ever just blew a ton out the door. Money in salespeople's pocket is good. A need to replenish inventory for dealers is good. Shitty cars off the road is good.


So many negative nelly's on here.

[DerangedPony]

We have word from Ford that the program is still going at least for today.

[-stew-]

How is that? That's like saying the prom queen is a loser. The program was just too popular.

They way they spoke of it on the ten o'clock news was that on billion was allocated, and 100 million was doled out, and it was being suspended. They never implied, or I never understood, that the cars taken in awaiting processing will deplete the allocated funds.

While was a popular program, IDK how much good it will really do. People came in and bought a shit load of cars, and depleted local inventories. So the dealer orders more stock from the manufacturer. And the builder sends cars that have already been built by currently laid off workers. This program isn't gonna re-open any closed factories. The auto makers are just pulling cars from train yards and holding ponds. It's still tumbleweeds in Janesville.

And if this rebate was allowed to be used as a down payment, we just witnessed another government funded sub-prime lending fiasco. Maybe in nine months we will be trying to scoop up a good deal on a late model used car repo, instead of try to scoop a good deal on a foreclosure.

[Rocket Power]

I agree with these guys.

Dealers that haven't sold shit for cars for ever just blew a ton out the door. Money in salespeople's pocket is good. A need to replenish inventory for dealers is good. Shitty cars off the road is good.


So many negative nelly's on here.

Sure, what's another billion dollars of taxpayer money?:rolleyes:
Hope they enjoy these sales, because I'd bet they're going back to near zero again, because most people that were on the fence about buying a car just did.


Aren't the democrats usually the one crying about welfare for businesses? Well there's $1,000,000,000 in welfare for you.

And if they were driving really shitty cars, what make you think they can afford to pay for the new one?

[shoooo32]

congress just added two billion more to the program. :fire what a waste.

[jenkins]

The House just directed $2 Billion into the Cash for Clunkers program and the senate will have to pass a vote as well. They have to move fast before the August recess (today is the only day they can act before Sept.)

I doubt the 1B is spent, but the NHTSA's incompetence in giving out the money fast enough is giving dealers the spooks.

While this $2B shift from stimulus package spending is addressed in the Senate, Maybe Feingold, Kohl, and the NH senators may be able to address the insurance issue??? (Crossing fingers).

[jenkins]

Actually, the Senate doesn't recess I guess so they'd take up the vote next week.

Time to call in again...

[Moparjim]

Maybe that will give some time for our representatives to get some movement on the illegal "rule" the NHTSA ended up instituting.

[subliminal1284]

Honestly I dont think this is going to help the economy all that much sure it will temporarily boost car sales but after that its just going to die off again. And if you think long term it may even worsen the economy more because some people that took advantage of this are going to be struggling to make the car payments and in turn not spending money on anything else. Its just a temporary band aid fix that is not going to have any long term affects. But thats just my opinion.

[jenkins]

Maybe that will give some time for our representatives to get some movement on the illegal "rule" the NHTSA ended up instituting.

Check this out:

http://feingold.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=316620

“The cash for clunkers program has been a bigger success than anyone predicted and it should be extended. But we should also address some concerns about the program, including ensuring that Wisconsin car owners who have complied fully with both state laws and the federal Cash for Clunkers law as enacted are allowed to participate in it.”

[Goat Roper]

Check this out:

http://feingold.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=316620

“The cash for clunkers program has been a bigger success than anyone predicted and it should be extended. But we should also address some concerns about the program, including ensuring that Wisconsin car owners who have complied fully with both state laws and the federal Cash for Clunkers law as enacted are allowed to participate in it.”

Well when you are only one of two entities out of fifty who are too dumb to make your residents have auto insurance you can expect to get shafted.

[nismodave]

Well when you are only one of two entities out of fifty who are too dumb to make your residents have auto insurance you can expect to get shafted.

Well WI is a BLUE state. So i cant argue too much on that one.:rolf

[Moparjim]

As I have posted before, I certainly don't advocate not having insurance. My position and the positon of our representatives though is that Wisconsin state law, dumb or not, does not currently require insurance. So, you can indeed have legally owned and operated a vehicle for the past year in WI and thus should be eligible without having to have proof of commercial insurance. Its pretty simple, and the Cash for Clunkers bill and even the NHTSA "rule" both clearly use the phrase "insured per STATE law".

So, any point about whether or not our insurance law is "right" or not, or whether people are retarded for operating without insurance is pretty moot. I disagree with probably thousands of laws....

[PB86MCSS]

Who the hell buys new cars anyways? :goof

[jenkins]

Well when you are only one of two entities out of fifty who are too dumb to make your residents have auto insurance you can expect to get shafted.

If you really want to know the meaning of shafted, just wait and watch your rates climb next year as the mandatory coverage goes into effect.

Since the coverage rates are at a higher dollar amount, it is almost a given that everyone's rates are going up significantly.

Yay.

[Goat Roper]

If you really want to know the meaning of shafted, just wait and watch your rates climb next year as the mandatory coverage goes into effect.

Since the coverage rates are at a higher dollar amount, it is almost a given that everyone's rates are going up significantly.

Yay.

I grew up in Iowa where we have had mandatory insurance for as long as I can remember so I am quite happy with the new law knowing that we finally don't let people drive around all willynilly.

[Car Guy]

I'm sure many people will still be driving around without insurance even if it's mandatory. Basic registration is mandatory and people don't think twice about driving without that......:stare

[Larrygto]

I was at the dealer today picking up parts and the sales man said yesterday was the best day he ever had! It was so busy that they stayed open late for the first time ever.

[GTSLOW]

Dunno both az and ca required insurance and rates were cheaper there.

[jenkins]

Dunno both az and ca required insurance and rates were cheaper there.

There are all kinds of things auto insurance companies take into account when considering rates. State minimum coverage limits are here:

Arizona 15/30/10
California 15/30/5
Wisconsin (Currently) 25/50/10

Come January 2010, it will be Wisconsin 50/100/15.

And, of course, you have to go by car accidents, car thefts, etc.

http://www.insure.com/articles/interactivetools/autoinsurancepremium/rates.jsp

Wisconsin is one of the cheaper states and I really don't think it is going to stay that way. I'll be the first one to (gladly) admit I'm wrong if rates don't crawl up year after year.

I just know it is very important to still get uninsured driver coverage because you KNOW there are a ton of illegals still out there ready to wipe out your ride, get free healthcare for the damage they've done to themselves, and leave you, your insurance company, and the taxpayer with the bill.

[lordairgtar]

I just know it is very important to still get uninsured driver coverage because you KNOW there are a ton of illegals still out there ready to wipe out your ride, get free healthcare for the damage they've done to themselves, and leave you, your insurance company, and the taxpayer with the bill.
There are plenty of actual citizens that will do that as well.:crying

[Goat Roper]

But if it is anything like Iowa and you get pulled over and cannot prove that you have insurance the fine is freakin huge. First time or two people get one of those and it equals a healthy portion of what actual insurance would cost they may actually start figuring the math out.

[Yooformula]

But if it is anything like Iowa and you get pulled over and cannot prove that you have insurance the fine is freakin huge. First time or two people get one of those and it equals a healthy portion of what actual insurance would cost they may actually start figuring the math out.

thats what it used to be like in NJ. I would rather get caught on a suspended license than not have insurance or even the damm registration card.

[lit666]

lets be honest here.. do you really think that people that can't afford insurance are going to pay a fine for not having it? If you are caught w/o ins it's a ticket and they let the offender drive off. It's the same with getting caught with a sus/rev DL.. you are written a ticket and you DRIVE off. The new law is i not going to make a diff and will just raise our rates. The same people that drive w/o a DL and insure now will drive with it after the law.

[Car Guy]

Some states will tow your vehicle on the spot if you can't show proof of insurance and/or registration......:stare

[88Nightmare]

lets be honest here.. do you really think that people that can't afford insurance are going to pay a fine for not having it? If you are caught w/o ins it's a ticket and they let the offender drive off. It's the same with getting caught with a sus/rev DL.. you are written a ticket and you DRIVE off. The new law is i not going to make a diff and will just raise our rates. The same people that drive w/o a DL and insure now will drive with it after the law.

unfortunately, I can speak from experience that you are NOT allowed to drive off when caught with a sus/rev DL.

[jenkins]

There are plenty of actual citizens that will do that as well.:crying

You are 100% correct. The only people I know that got their car effed up by an uninsured driver has been either a young woman or illegal immigrant... Not to say that uninsured non-illegal men are out there doing it, because I'm certain it happens.

And lit666 is right...people will get the ticket, will not pay, and will still drive away and do it again and again. The penalty for ignoring this law is likely to be a slap on the wrist with jail time and let's face it... it is better to have a child molester, murderer, and armed robber behind bars than one of these deadbeats. Still, gotta make them pay somehow....

I think the state government takes away drivers licenses for too many unrelated (non-driving) offenses when they just KNOW the vast majority of these people will still drive anyway.... and then it just creates a situation where people become desperate and do some crazy things.

[-stew-]

unfortunately, I can speak from experience that you are NOT allowed to drive off when caught with a sus/rev DL.


Ditto.