Cash for Clunkers rant - update

[Moparjim]

Shockingly enough, Feingold's office actually returned my call. Apparently, our representatives in government agree with my (and others) interpretation that the law specifically stated "insured per applicable state law" and they are attempting to get it fixed. WI and NH are teaming up, and they have issued a letter to the NHTSA and other parties involved and will be meeting with the head of the NHTSA to try to get it fixed. They have also conferred with the drafters of the law, who also agree that it was specifically written that way so as to allow people in various states with various insurance laws (including no insurance law) to participate. They told me Feingold's site should be updated soon with the info on what they are doing and a copy of the letter even. They are trying to do something fast since some are concerned that the money will indeed run out pretty quick. So, there is some hope it will be corrected so that here in WI where we don't require insurance you will not have to provide the one years continuous insurance cards from an insurance company.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

put that on the "good things feingold has done" list. that would be number.............1 on the list i guess, LOL!

hopefully you get it figured out. all i know is that this is a real pain in the ass for the dealers.

[Yooformula]

the thing I find funny is that 2 years ago the mpg rating system was changed and vehicles ratings were lowered due to being inflated in prior years. So the same car 1 year was now rated less in mpg because of the new testing methods used(windows/ac/gearing). I wonder if they are using the old inflated mpg ratings for the clunkers vs the new mpg ratings on the new cars. Point being, older cars didnt get the advertised mpg and the rebate you get is based on the mpg increase you get from the new car...........if the new cars are lower rated and the old ones are overinflated, you qualify for less.

[WickedSix]

@ Yoo's comment:

I looked up my truck 91 s10 through the site somone had linked and it rated my truck at 19 (it was factory rated 28 hwy 23 city and actually gets 26 mpg most driving so I think they aren't using the inflated system of past for older cars

[Rocket Power]

@ Yoo's comment:

I looked up my truck 91 s10 through the site somone had linked and it rated my truck at 19 (it was factory rated 28 hwy 23 city and actually gets 26 mpg most driving so I think they aren't using the inflated system of past for older cars

Yep they are. There was a note on the side of the page when I looked up my GP.
You can compare the new vs old too.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=11042

[Red97GTP]

It's a good thing that they are looking into it but by the time they change anything around, all of the 1 billion will be exhausted. The dealership I work for already applied for I think 8 vouchers. If every dealership that is participating in the program get 8 vouchers like we did, the funds are going to be gone by the weekend if not earlier.

[Exitspeed]

They sold 4,000 cars for the sum of $17 million. There is still $933 million left.

It's not going to be gone byt the weekend even at rate.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

do you guys at dealerships know if there is a checklist for what all has to be done to these cars once taken in. wondering if there is something to give to the techs to ensure that everything is done properly?

[Karps TA]

My mom was complaining about all the paperwork that was involved in this and what a PITA the whole system has been so far. But she bitches about everything.

[Rocket Power]

My mom was complaining about all the paperwork that was involved in this and what a PITA the whole system has been so far. But she bitches about everything.

Wouldn't be a govt program w/o an assload of paperwork:goof

[Plum Crazy]

do you guys at dealerships know if there is a checklist for what all has to be done to these cars once taken in. wondering if there is something to give to the techs to ensure that everything is done properly?


I read the flyer on saturday, we have to drain the engine oil, drive the car outside to a remote area, dump in 2qts of "liquid Glass" And run the engine at 2000 RPM for 7-12 Min or untill engine will not idle, then recheck in 20 min that the engine will not run, install a sticker saying the vehicles engine was disabled under the C.A.R.S program and towed to a salvage yard.

[y2kws6]

So what would stop someone from going to a junk yard, buying a car for $500 and getting $4500 for cash for clunkers?

Dan

[PureSound15]

I bet dealerships are enjoying having to pay to tow it to the junk yard. Maybe the gov gives them $7 to do that, though :)

[PureSound15]

So what would stop someone from going to a junk yard, buying a car for $500 and getting $4500 for cash for clunkers?

Dan

You have to own it for a year.

[Moparjim]

From Feingold's site:

FEINGOLD PUSHES FOR FAIRNESS IN CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM FOR WISCONSIN

Program's Incorrect Interpretation of Congress' Intent Leaves Many in Wisconsin Ineligible for Program

Wednesday, July 29, 2009



Washington, D.C. – Today U.S. Senator Russ Feingold is calling on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to correct its guidelines for the “Cash for Clunkers” program to reflect Congress’ intent so many Wisconsinites are not excluded from the program. In a letter to the NHTSA, Feingold led a bipartisan effort urging the agency to correct its recent Cash for Clunkers guidelines that require a vehicle must be insured for at least one year prior to the trade-in even if the state does not require drivers to purchase insurance. Under these guidelines, it has been estimated that as many as 15 percent of Wisconsin drivers would be ineligible for the program because current Wisconsin law does not require drivers to have car insurance.

“It is simply unacceptable to exclude Wisconsinites from the Cash for Clunkers program because of differences in state law,” Feingold said. “Before the limited funds for this program run out, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration must quickly correct this error to reflect Congress’ intent that law-abiding citizens of all states, including Wisconsin, should be able to participate in the Cash for Clunkers program.”

The Cash for Clunkers or Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS Act) allows drivers to receive rebates for trading in “clunkers” for newer, more efficient cars until November 30, 2009 or until the $1 billion in authorized funds are no longer available. Some House and Senate authors of the Cash for Clunkers program signed onto the letter in support of fixing this flawed interpretation to ensure the program is open to all law-abiding drivers in every state.

Members joining Feingold’s bipartisan effort include Senators Kohl (D-WI), Gregg (R-NH), Shaheen (D-NH), Stabenow (D-MI) and Representatives Baldwin (D-WI), Dingell (D-MI), Hodes (D-NH), Kagen (D-WI), Kind (D-WI), Moore (D-WI), Obey (D-WI), Petri (R-WI), and Shea-Porter (D-NH). Members from the New Hampshire delegation joined Feingold’s effort because like Wisconsin, New Hampshire has a state law that does not require drivers to have car insurance.

[BigBlackZ71]

I bet dealerships are enjoying having to pay to tow it to the junk yard. Maybe the gov gives them $7 to do that, though :)


The dealers don't pay to tow them we just leave them in back and the junk yard comes and gets them, not sure who pays the tow but its not the dealer

[BigBlackZ71]

So what would stop someone from going to a junk yard, buying a car for $500 and getting $4500 for cash for clunkers?

Dan


You still have to prove you owned the car for over a year, I also herd the cars are to be crushed. Not fact I just "herd" thats what happens.

[Moparjim]

They were originally talking about crushing them, but salvagers lobbied to have it changed. Hence, the disabling of the engine with the silicon borate or whatever junk, which they figure is the "low fuel efficiency" culprit. The rest of the car I believe now can be salvaged so things like body and interior and electrical parts aren't wasted.

Feingold's office just called me again, thanking me for bringing it to their attention. Sounds like he is pretty much on it. We will see if anything can be done to change the rules quickly I suppose. I will be absolutely shocked if our representatives prove to be responsive and effective!

[jenkins]

put that on the "good things feingold has done" list. that would be number.............1 on the list i guess, LOL!

hopefully you get it figured out. all i know is that this is a real pain in the ass for the dealers.

Hahah. I agree 100%. I'm typically not a fan of the guy's politics. However, I can relate to his personal life.... Divorced twice + two daughters.

He's actually doing something about this and I'm shocked and feel good that he is actually standing up for Wisconsin's unique situation though that is near the end (Mandatory insurance in 2010).

Here is a news article:

http://www.wisn.com/automotive/20215976/detail.html

[jenkins]

They were originally talking about crushing them, but salvagers lobbied to have it changed. Hence, the disabling of the engine with the silicon borate or whatever junk, which they figure is the "low fuel efficiency" culprit. The rest of the car I believe now can be salvaged so things like body and interior and electrical parts aren't wasted.

Feingold's office just called me again, thanking me for bringing it to their attention. Sounds like he is pretty much on it. We will see if anything can be done to change the rules quickly I suppose. I will be absolutely shocked if our representatives prove to be responsive and effective!

I should have called his Washington office and left a message there... I am beginning to doubt if my complaint was ever passed outside of the Milwaukee office I called.

Glad you called MoparJim. I did post a few messages around the Cash For Clunkers articles that mentioned Wisconsin alerting others to call Feingold too.

(Crossing fingers). I was hoping to replace my clunker with a Pontiac G5 XFE and then I can go ahead and pitch my aging Metro.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

holy shit. we just siezed one in the shop here. what the hell is that "liquid glass" stuff. must be pretty nasty because this thing just made it out of the shop before siezing. ran for maybe 30 seconds.

does that stuff chemically react or something??

[DerangedPony]

The Cash for Clunker 4.0 that wont die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBilHH5z2A

[4eyedstang]

The Cash for Clunker 4.0 that wont die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBilHH5z2A

poor Jeep that thing look pretty clean. what a shame :(

[GTSLOW]

^ Seriously what the fuck? There's a million other cars on the road right now that get way worse MPG and are in far worse condition.

[jenkins]

The government suspended the Cash For Clunkers program because dealerships are panicking as they have sent out a bunch of cars and seen the following things screw them:

#1: EPA changed the MPG ratings of many cars, leaving 80 some cars that once qualified behind.

#2: The NHTSA's taking too long to give out the cash as dealerships move cars but do not see the $3500-$4500 they are supposed to get for crushing a clunker.

Poor Jeep... looks like a decent machine. I think how long it lasted shows what kind of a monster the 4.0L engine is.

I seriously doubt 222,222+ cars have been sold, but dealerships think they have been and don't want to be #222,223 and left to try and collect their money from a consumer that has just been bent over by Uncle Sam.

With this kind of incompetence, I say...What the hell! Give these government clowns the rights to manage my health care. Surely they can't screw up nationalized health care more than Cash For Clunkers, eh?

[4eyedstang]

With this kind of incompetence, I say...What the hell! Give these government clowns the rights to manage my health care. Surely they can't screw up nationalized health care more than Cash For Clunkers, eh?[/quote]


amen

and i thought the Dem's were for the the poor/middle class
and they help them out by taking 222.222 affordable cars of the market.

bravo.

[Waver]

They suspended it? really? what is your source?

[Beagle]

Somebody brought in a volvo to our dealership today for the "cash for clunkers" crap. The best part about it is that whatever cars we get in we get to blow the motors up. Every car we get in for that we have to pour block sealant into the oil and run it until it seizes. I think they should just let us blow them up in whatever way we want.

[Waver]

Somebody brought in a volvo to our dealership today for the "cash for clunkers" crap. The best part about it is that whatever cars we get in we get to blow the motors up. Every car we get in for that we have to pour block sealant into the oil and run it until it seizes. I think they should just let us blow them up in whatever way we want.

So that is why you got a job at a dealership.....to blow shit up.....going to be fun to see the gmc van that we took in go kablooie

[Plum Crazy]

So that is why you got a job at a dealership.....to blow shit up.....goinvto be fun to see the gmc van that we took in go kablooie


we have taken in 19 cars as of tuesday at 5pm. We havent gotten any liquid glass yet. Im looking forward to blowing up my first one. Are you guys getting paid anything to blow them up??

[Waver]

we have taken in 19 cars as of tuesday at 5pm. We havent gotten any liquid glass yet. Im looking forward to blowing up my first one. Are you guys getting paid anything to blow them up??

hell if I know.....I am one of those guys who sells the new cars.....I have a feeling that this one will go sky high though

[DerangedPony]

The Ford reps told us not to do any more CFC deals because it is suspended.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32228179/ns/business-autos/

[lordairgtar]

I think we need to liberate those cars still with good engines from the dealers. Gimme that Volvo you communist!

[lordairgtar]

we have taken in 19 cars as of tuesday at 5pm. We havent gotten any liquid glass yet. Im looking forward to blowing up my first one. Are you guys getting paid anything to blow them up??
Program suspended! Don't blow those cars up! Save the Cars!

[07ROUSHSTG3]

we have taken in 19 cars as of tuesday at 5pm. We havent gotten any liquid glass yet. Im looking forward to blowing up my first one. Are you guys getting paid anything to blow them up??

i think $50. the liquid glass stuff is like $13 a bottle. don't be too excited. the motor just siezes up. no fun. and you do not need 2 bottle of the stuff. i would think 1/2 bottle would be good.

[SSLEVO]

I understand the point of trying to get cars that get crap milage off the road but whats the sense in F'ing a perfectly good car up??? Why don't they donate these cars to people that actually need them? I'm sure there are plenty of single mothers ect that would love any car that moves under its own power. Hell i know of a lady that works on the floor that can't get to work half of the time because her car is a pos. Just seems like the typical wastefull american ways...

[jenkins]

New Hamshire senator announces that the DOT has scrapped the insurance rule. http://www.wmur.com/money/20248226/detail.html

I can't find anything on Wisconsin yet.

[jenkins]

That would be New Hampshire. I'll blame the laptop keyboard as always. :)

[jenkins]

HOLY SMOKES! Feingold did it!

http://www.cars.gov/files/ammendment.pdf

Better rush out for that car, MoparJim. :)

[Plum Crazy]

you guys, between tuesday and friday morning, we had sold 84 vehicles under cash for clunkers, we only have 29 vehicles for sale on the lot!!!! 9 are rams, 8 are vans, and the rest are random vehicles.

[Moparjim]

Color me shocked. My representation was A) responsive, and B) effective! This almost restores my faith in government. I only wish they could be A and B for the numerous more important issues facing our nation.

P.S. I got my Caliber SRT4.

[05caddyext]

Im sorry but im against people with a lot of money using the cash for clunkers to their advantage. How many cars do you need?

[Yooformula]

Im sorry but im against people with a lot of money using the cash for clunkers to their advantage. How many cars do you need?

who cares? its his money! there is no stipulation on the program as to who can/cant use it, so why should you care who takes advantage of it.

[Moparjim]

Who says I have a lot of money lol. Just because I have a lot of cars doesn't mean I don't have car loans to go with them... It has also taken me about 20 years of being into cars to accumulate what I have now.

Not to mention what business is it of yours? There is no income stipulation in the law, and not that I am rich but if I do happen to make a decent living because I put myself through engineering school and have spent 15 years working hard what does that have to do with anything? I've certainly paid in enough in taxes over the years! The government got what they wanted when they passed the law - a 92 Jeep "clunker" off the road, and a new car sale that wouldn't have been made otherwise, and I got a nice discount on a new daily driver.

Believe it or not, I actually could barely afford to buy this car. Due to my huge Viper payment, I planned to get another couple of years out of the Jeep/Caddy combo and have the Viper payed off before signing up for any more payments. The law did exactly what it was supposed to do in my case - it was the final straw discount wise that pushed me over the edge and gave me the incentive to buy a new car, where I wouldn't have for a few more years otherwise.

[05caddyext]

Right, pushed you over the edge. Drawing down inventory on cars that others need way more than you. You didn't need a new car, you wanted one. You could have driven any of your other 10 cars and been just fine, letting people who actually need the program use it. Thats why its out of money.

[Plum Crazy]

Right, pushed you over the edge. Drawing down inventory on cars that others need way more than you. You didn't need a new car, you wanted one. You could have driven any of your other 10 cars and been just fine, letting people who actually need the program use it. Thats why its out of money.


give me a break!!!! That money is for anyone, and if you qualify, good for you! Every single one of us is going to end up paying back that money, so whats the difference if he actually gets to use it. Just be thankful its a government project that actually worked and cleared dealer inventories.

[WickedSix]

people who really need the program can't use it......you pretty much have to be able to afford a new car regardless .... its just getting people to buy cars earlier than they anticipated....how many poor people do you think are getting cars out of this? i'm guessing ZERO. It wasnt meant to help people who really need cars...it was meant to appease the greenies out there by CRUSHING gas guzzlers out on the roadway. Its accomplishing exactly its purpose.... much to my chagrin..... but it is getn cars off the road and getting people to spend money now....whether it last long term and provides a stimulous will take years to know

[TheRX7Project]

I know I can't afford a new car because of Cash for Clunkers. I couldn't afford a new car before the "CARS" deal, either.

This is simply another way to stimulate the economy. I say more power to the rich people who are taking advantage of this and spending money, just like the government wants.

The reason smart people have money AND toys is because they know how to take advantage of a good deal when they can get it. Don't be jealous just because you can't afford a new car. That was not the point of CARS to put poor people behind the wheel of a new car, the point was to get people to buy stuff. And it worked like a motherfucker.

The reason whis country is in the shitter in the first place is because people bought stuff they couldn't afford. If you're too poor to buy a new car, don't buy a fucking new car.

I wish I could take advantage of CARS. It is a great opprotunity for someone who wants to buy a new car and can afford to do so- they now have a major incentive to buy it. I just can't right afford to right now.

[Plum Crazy]

I think Chrysler was smart in matching gov't money. you are looking for a small car, you are looking at a Caliber or something like that, the sticker is 21, you get 4500 plus 4500 matched plus 0% for 60mo. what is that a month, 120??

[Prince Valiant]

P.S. I got my Caliber SRT4.
Congrats Jim!

I bet that that 4.0 is still running with that "liquid glass" or whatever they are putting in the crankcase to destroy/render useless the engine, lol. 4.0's never die!

Honestly, I would have asked the dealer as a condition to purchase, that I be allowed to watch the destruction of the engine. You know....bring a couple chairs, a cooler of beer, and just sit there and watch, wait, and enjoy...and pour a 40 when it's done. Probably would be kind of fun, lol.

My buddies are always a little perplexed when I encourage them to just go ahead and use the "CARS" program. Yes, I'm against it in principle, and see it as a gross misuse of taxpayer dollars...since to give the "benefit", it must be taken from others who receive no benefit (and no, no nebulous "it helps the economy" arguments, since it's easier to show how in the longterm, it hurts more than it helps). BUT, my principle isn't worth ME paying 8-9G more if I'm looking to buy a new car at this moment (I'm not). I mean, that's a LOT of money to take off the table to make a point that no one would really listen to. If it's there, might as well use it.

[Al]

I expected that we would be seeing lots of 20 y/o cars being turned in for cahs for clunkers, not 5 y/o cars.

[murdoc158]

X0IcIxhd8ks

What a waste.