Camaro outsells the Mustang [Archive]

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:07 PM

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/01/breaking-chevrolet-camaro-outsells-ford-mustang/

espite having fewer model variations on the market, pent up demand for the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro appears to have been enough to send the bad Bowtie past Ford's redone Mustang in June. Sales figures for the month are beginning to trickle in today, and General Motors says it shifted 9,320 Camaro units last month, as compared to the Blue Oval's 7,632 Mustangs.

Whether Chevrolet's victory will be sustainable over the long haul remains to be seen, but as The General has a backlog of 10,000 sold orders to fill (equating to less than a seven day supply), the streak is likely to continue for at least the next few months. Presently, GM offers just two main Camaro models, the V6 RS and the V8-powered SS, while the Ford Mustang has more bodystyles and trims than you can shake a stick at (arguably making the Camaro's achievement seemingly that much more impressive).

Sales of the third leg of 2009's pony car table, the Dodge Challenger, trail far behind, with just 1,369 units cleared last month.

As the industry heads into the dog days of summer, it looks like America's renewed pony car war is just heating up. Who will take the crown for the whole year? Sit tight, muscle fans.

Plum Crazy

07-01-2009, 02:11 PM

thats a garbage comparison seeing as Chrysler hasnt built any cars since filing bankruptcy. our inventory is only 220 chrysler products, its usually over 400, we have been buying vehicles from as far away as Missouri just to meet demands. We have also been out of Challengers for some time.

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:12 PM

Karps TA

07-01-2009, 02:16 PM

Plum Crazy

07-01-2009, 02:18 PM

Defensive much? lol.

How is it garbage? They merely stated numbers. The compassion is completely valid.

That like saying "Firebird sales are down this month compaired to the Corvette"

Well no shit, they aren't making Firebirds, are they?

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:19 PM

That's not a surprise. The Camaro was all new and had orders waiting for them for over a year.

We'll see if that holds up. I tend to doubt it. The Mustang has always appealed more to a wider demographic.

ie women.

I dunno the price and performance of the Camaro are quickly winning over every media source out there and obviously consumers. It's winning just about every comparo between the three cars I've seen too.

It's just a better bang for your buck and while looks are subjective it seems most people prefer the looks of the Camaro over the 'Stang.

But only time will tell.

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:20 PM

That like saying "Firebird sales are down this month compaired to the Corvette"

Well no shit, they aren't making Firebirds, are they?

Yeah but they also aren't taking orders on Firebirds either. Not a good comparison.

Don't be bitter because Chrysler and the Challenger suck more then $2 whores.

Plum Crazy

07-01-2009, 02:23 PM

Yeah but they also aren't taking orders on Firebirds either. Not a good comparison.

Don't be bitter because Chrysler and the Challenger suck more then $2 whores.

Sorry, i just like the Challenger, ive driven all three and if you can get over the sheer massiveness of the challenger, i thinks its styling is the best. I find the mustang small inside, and i hate the ass end of the Camaro. (I am 6'5 275lbs)

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:31 PM

if you can get over the sheer massiveness of the challenger,

I can't. There's no excuse for that car being as big as it is. Also the quality of these things are poor at best. At least the ones I've seen up close.

Again styling is subjective.

I just have a hard time excusing factory fitment like this:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8940/img6797.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2913/img6798.jpg

I've seen knock off chinese carbon fiber trunks fit better then that.

Plum Crazy

07-01-2009, 02:33 PM

I have seen abunch of challengers, thats the first one ive seen with a misaligned trunk lid. Stuff happens. I know for a fact Boucher Ford in Kenosha had a 2010 mustang off the carrier with a blown trans. Stuff happens.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 02:37 PM

i would have to agree with the shit happens remark. i talked with a friend who works for a chevy dealer, and they get cars all the time with bad alignment on body parts, wrong/missing badges, leaks, etc. with the numbers of cars the companys are rolling out shit is bound to happen.

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:38 PM

Shut up Adam. No one asked you. lol.

I have seen abunch of challengers, thats the first one ive seen with a misaligned trunk lid. Stuff happens. I know for a fact Boucher Ford in Kenosha had a 2010 mustang off the carrier with a blown trans. Stuff happens.

I agree though. That one just happened to be at the Chicago auto show. I'd be embarrassed having to work the Chrysler area with something like that sitting there.

Yeah shit happens.

Compared to the Mustang and Camaro, the thing is too big, to slow, handles too poorly, and is too expensive. It really only comes down to the name that sells the thing.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 02:44 PM

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:49 PM

yeah, the autoshow is a bad place to have that on display. the challenger is hot. mel, i usually agree with you, but how is it too slow? it does handle a bit shittier than the stang or the camaro however mopar had some parts to help, it is pricey, but its also cool. i think if you drive one, you'd change your mind.

Compared to the Camaro and Mustang it's slower in every test, 0-60, quarter mile, g's, etc. Numbers are numbers. It's also more expensive. Like I said, the reason it sells is becuase those people like the looks more then the other two or they want a larger car.

I'd rather not drive one really. The car just has too many flaws for me. I'd rather have a V6 Genesis. lol.

Karps TA

07-01-2009, 02:52 PM

I don't care about all those things. I'd still buy a Challenger first, Mustang second and Camaro dead last. I'm hoping in the next 2 years to pick up an R/T used.

Style and comfort of it just fit my tastes the best. I can always make a car faster.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 02:54 PM

yes, but it also has the potential to be better than both the others. and it doesnt sell just because of its looks, brand loyalty has a lot to do with it as well. i love mopar, ive owned at least one at all times, i would love to have a challenger. yes, expensive but oh well, in my opinion its more nostalgic than either of the other two's 'throw back' looks. you can keep the genesis.

Greg@GLD

07-01-2009, 02:54 PM

Let's see.... Hmmm... Camaro fans are Camaro fans. Poor Camaro fans have had no Camaro for several years. Camaro makes a long-awaited comeback. Camaro sells x-number of cars,is "outselling the Mustang"... Yea, and at one point people were paying over sticker price for a run of the mill 2005 Mustang GT...

You know what they say about statistics... It takes time to see what the real demographics are.

What is good news is that people are still buying "musclecars" in this economy. We should all be happy about this, no matter what you like...

I seem to recall back when Ford had already been building Mustangs for three full model years before GM got with the program and answered, there were "stories" about how the new ponycars from GM were going to hurt Ford sales, blah blah blah. Mustang sales over an extended period of time have kicked GM's ass, regardless of perceived or real "bang for the buck"

Nothing like taking skeewed statistics and twisting them into a "news story" :rolleyes:

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:57 PM

And I feel the exact opposite. I hate the way it looks (but I don't like most classic muscle cars), I think it's poorly engineered (too big. inexcusable), and it's the least bang for my buck.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 02:58 PM

so is the gtr

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 02:59 PM

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:00 PM

so is the gtr

So is the GTR what? The GTR is the second best bang for yout buck on the planet right now. Only second to the ZR1.

07ROUSHSTG3

07-01-2009, 03:02 PM

i wonder how these numbers compare to when the 05 mustang was released?!?! nice to see the camaro/mustang war in full force but jeez..already guys, come on, LOL!

and yeah, the challenger sucks, that is why they are not selling. there are dealers all over the country with them sitting on their lots, and they will continue to sit because nobody wants them.

Karps TA

07-01-2009, 03:02 PM

It's all personal tastes. To argue otherwise is pointless. I'd never want a GTR or a ZR1. I think the GTR is hideous, and the ZR1 is gaudy and tacky. I'd rather have a Z06 and just modify it if I had that kind of change.

As I get older, pure speed becomes less and less important to me. Especially when there becomes less and less places to drive it.

shoooo32

07-01-2009, 03:03 PM

What is good news is that people are still buying "musclecars" in this economy. We should all be happy about this, no matter what you like...

QFT!!! Limited production is nice for resale but building these cars in great numbers is good for detroit and good for us. Parts/mods are cheaper for cars with high production runs.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 03:05 PM

the gtr is too big for what they are trying to go for. i agree its decent bang for the buck, but they are also in a much higher cost bracket. but i love the looks of classics.

Karps TA

07-01-2009, 03:05 PM

I agree with that as well. I hope they all sell well. I'm glad to see the Camaro doing well and hope it can keep it up. But even being a staunch GM guy my whole life, I know F-bodies are always popular at first and die quickly as the model rolls on. Meanwhile Mustangs have always just kept churning sales.

Rocket Power

07-01-2009, 03:08 PM

I seem to recall back when Ford had already been building Mustangs for three full model years before GM got with the program and answered,

Sounds like now.:rolf
"Hey look people like the retro styling on the Mustang. Maybe we should wait a few years and come out with one too. It can be the 2008 er, 2009, umm 2010 Camaro":rolf
Wow amazing that they could come out new design (ugly as it is) and when it first comes out it sells more than the one that has basically looked the same for the last 5 years. Wooopeee!
Get your camaro now before they quit making them again;)
Oh and GM a spare tire would be nice, not all flats can be fixed with a compressor and fix a flat:rolf

BAD LS1

07-01-2009, 03:10 PM

The new Camaro isnt even dubbed an "F body" anymore though. And there is that " a mustang for every buyer" mission statment ford has nailed to the wall and GM said they plan to have a more niche presence with the New Camaro and werent going for all out sale statistcs, but rather provide a better car overall than its direct competition, which on paper and real life numbers, save for some handling #'s that get slightly bettered by the lighter mustang its doing just that.

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:12 PM

the gtr is too big for what they are trying to go for. i agree its decent bang for the buck, but they are also in a much higher cost bracket. but i love the looks of classics.

Ahhh, but there is a difference here you are overlooking. The GTR, while heavy, outperforms almost every car in it's class, price range and beyond despite it's weight disadvantage. That is due to genius engineering.

The Challenger has no luck in accomplishing this task what so ever and I and many others hold that against it.

Prince Valiant

07-01-2009, 03:12 PM

How is it garbage? They merely stated numbers. The compassion is completely valid. :confused

Well, I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'd agree with rev and somewhat Karp.

It's not as if these "stated numbers" is saying anything of significance. All it shows is there is pent up demand for the car...which is like showing a headline that says "Science Confirms: Sky really is blue!" and being amazed by the fact.

Just as this March 13th article demonstrates, pent-up-demand matters:

Dodge Challenger outsells mustang last month and year-to-date. (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/13/dodge-challenger-outsells-ford-mustang-last-month-and-ytd/)

Add to the mix pent up demand and anticipation for the challenger, plus knowledge by segments of buyers of an "improved" model for the mustang in 2010, the above article didn't surprise me then, just as the title to this thread doesn't surprise, nor gives me false hope now.

Nor does it surprise me that a particular car's sales have diminished as production has been halted for some time...the desired models buyers want become harder to find, prices may become less attractive as dealers hold for buyers willing and able to pay more, etc.

The mistake is believing the comparison is valid...the numbers may be valid; but aside from showing the sales total of each model, you'd be hard press to extrapolate anything greater beyond just that (such as perceived enthusiasm for a model, enthusiast perceptions of performance, etc and ad nauseum).

Just as I'll hardly be surprised when things start to return to normalcy, and the rustang leads the sales race, followed by the camaro, and then the challenger.

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:19 PM

Yeah I meant just the numbers are valid in that statement. I was arguing that the fact that Chrysler isn't building cars right now as an excuse to them not selling.

-stew-

07-01-2009, 03:22 PM

Stuff happens.

I'd say more stuff happens with mopars. Dodgeland at one point had two trucks on the lot with the same VIN. That is a major fuck-up on about 12 different levels. No wonder Fiat is now in bed with Ma Mopar.

SBC-Fox

07-01-2009, 03:23 PM

Camaro ftw

-stew-

07-01-2009, 03:24 PM

Camaro ftl

Fixed...

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:26 PM

Awesome thread.

07ROUSHSTG3

07-01-2009, 03:37 PM

Awesome thread.

what could be better :thumbsup. ford vs chevy, mustang vs camaro :)

anyone have the camaro sales numbers for 2009 MY? :goof

yup.......i went there. pulled out the ole "they didn't make any camaros because the mustang is better" line. what do you think of that?? :alcoholic

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 03:46 PM

Ahhh, but there is a difference here you are overlooking. The GTR, while heavy, outperforms almost every car in it's class, price range and beyond despite it's weight disadvantage. That is due to genius engineering.

The Challenger has no luck in accomplishing this task what so ever and I and many others hold that against it.

i will agree, the damn japs have made shit better than us for ever. i mean shit, ever since like wwii and the zero, we've pretty much been one upped on everything we try. oh well, i still bleed red white and blue and will be a fan of american muscle til i die. yes the little jap cars have all the cool little gizmo's that offer crazy traction and can even wipe your ass for you and tell you when you have food in your teeth, but i still love the idea of big discplacement v8's and the fact that they are made in america, by americans, in a time that our economy is shit and people dont have the money to spend on these cars. the idea of a 'mustang for every buyer' is awesome, but between the 3 American muscle cars, there really is a muscle car for every buyer. god bless America bitches.

Prince Valiant

07-01-2009, 03:47 PM

I was arguing that the fact that Chrysler isn't building cars right now as an excuse to them not selling.more :confused

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:50 PM

Hey I'm all for buying American. There's more American cars on the market right now that I would highly consider purchasing (G8 GXP, Solstice Coupe GXP, CTS, Fusion to name a few) then ever before.

But I'm a sucker for bang for your buck, and the Challenger just doesn't have that IMO. Yeah it looks cool and is nostalgic, but I'm fuckin cheap (you know that) and I want more (engineering, technology, better design) for my buck then just mass and subjectively good looks.

07ROUSHSTG3

07-01-2009, 03:50 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/01/news/companies/auto_sales/?postversion=2009070116

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 03:55 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/01/news/companies/auto_sales/?postversion=2009070116

Yeah Toyota is doing BAAAD right now. One of the ex Toyota execs said Toyota is headed in the same direction that lead GM to where it is right now. NOT good.

lasttimearound

07-01-2009, 04:01 PM

i know you're american and about buying american mel, that wasnt directed at you, just in general, like a soap box speech or whatever. either way, it comes down to what you want to drive and can afford, dont be a dumbass who lives outside their means and screws over everyone else.

SBC-Fox

07-01-2009, 04:04 PM

I stew love camaros and plan on getting the 2009 in the future because its so awesome

Fixed again:thumbsup

Exitspeed

07-01-2009, 04:35 PM

Speaking of sales figures:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/01/by-the-numbers-june-2009-bankruptcy-a-bad-idea-edition/

Ford's doing the best right now compared to last year.

Ford -10.85%
BMW -20.29%
Nissan -23.14%
Honda -29.55%
Toyota -31.87%
GM -33.60%
Chrysler -41.85%

Yes those are negative signs...

1320PNY

07-01-2009, 05:08 PM

This thread is like global warming. It was hotter today than yesterday, so it must be a trend. Let's trend back to 1964! There's a little gap in the Y2K era to contend with, not to mention a few years in the 60s that there's some shoulder shrugs.

The Mustang will always be Americas car for the same reason the Scion is popular. Give us a cheap yet healthy platform and give us a huge aftermarket.

The 2010 is slitting it's own throat by making butt ugly fenders and not having a fix. Ford put on the mirror covers, has their own blackout panel, has a track pack. Now the incentive for the aftermarket companies to invest millions in R&D and new products is down the drain.

With your choice of FACTORY Pony cars, I'm sure I would pick the Camaro over the 2010 Mustang. You give us a base platform with a huge supportive aftermarket and let us "customize" our vehicles and tailor them to our tastes, and you have a winner.

Lee Iacocca and Carol Shelby aren't Automotive Icons and Rich by accident!

Waver

07-02-2009, 11:25 AM

lets see how the numbers are once ford sends out the first mustangs with the new 5.0 engine in them.....

Exitspeed

07-02-2009, 11:28 AM

lets see how the numbers are once ford sends out the first mustangs with the new 5.0 engine in them.....

Yeah I'm sure that will have a huge impact on sales actually.

-stew-

07-02-2009, 11:50 AM

Awesome thread.

I thought I agreed, and was gonna poast this...

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/Dennisjr13/1229739203671.jpg

But then people are sayin I wanna buy a mullet machine. And than make me puke in my mouth a lil bit. But this thread ain't bad. But I do really like the '05 camaro's. Oh wait...

Greg@GLD

07-03-2009, 06:56 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwCFIk0xH_s

KRAUSED

07-03-2009, 07:15 PM

I think if Mopar wants to get back in the fight they need to bring more to the table...like maybe the CUDA.And i mean design it to be less blocky and bulky then the challenger but still look like the cuda of old,and step it up with a smaller motor with a turbo or blower.Shave the weight to keep it a rocket.I have driving all three present cars.I like the look of the mullet mobile in front,the rear sucks...The challenger interior is nice and comfortable but it feels like a brick driving it.The mustang is not much different then the others i have owned great out of the box performance for daily driving.
No matter what anyone says your preference is your preference ford chevy dodge were all addicted to SPEED.....:)

I still perfer my Gn over all of them,cause it just has the hmm factor...Is it stock or is it not...:D