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lordairgtar
04-29-2009, 11:01 PM
Some have thought that Pontiac going away was a good thing. Now our soon to be government and UAW owned GM is killing the HPV team. Polosi and her ilk believe Americans should drive underpowered pipsqueak cars and that high performance cars are not necessary.

Disappearing Cars
In a move largely seen as giving in to Washington, General Motors recently closed it High Performance Vehicles division. The HPV team was largely responsible for GM's most exciting cars including the Cadillac CTS-V (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Cadillac-CTS_V-2009/overview) and the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-Corvette-2009-ZR1__2dr_Coupe/overview).
Bureaucrats have little use for performance-oriented V-8 powered cars, so don't expect cars like the Chevy Corvette (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-Corvette-2009/overview), Dodge Viper (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Dodge-Viper-2009/overview), Chevrolet Camaro SS (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-Camaro-2010-1SS__2dr_Coupe/overview), or Dodge Challenger R/T (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Dodge-Challenger-2009-R_T__2dr_Coupe/overview) to survive long term. Their survival is no longer tied to customer demand, but to the demands of the government that now controls the product portfolios and development dollars at GM and Chrysler. Recently, GM announced it was killing its Pontiac (http://autos.aol.com/car-Pontiac-az/) brand, a concept that seemed to define performance all by itself some decades ago. Now that brand is gone.
Ford Motor Company will also likely be affected. New emissions regulations may keep future V-8 editions of the Mustang (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Mustang-2010/overview) in the barn.
According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Analyst at HIS Global Insight, "With Obama's plan, everything changes in the domestic automotive world. The government will be able to dictate what General Motors and Chrysler can sell. Washington believes it knows what Americans should drive, and this bail out gives them the means to dramatically change the market." Wolkonowicz sees the potential for a significant narrowing of choice in the automotive market. He says, "With the power given them by the bail out, the government can simply mandate certain classes of cars and trucks out of existence, regardless of whether they are popular with American drivers or not."
After studying the government's response to GM's survival plan, Wolkonowicz believes that the only way for GM to secure government funds will be to become even smaller than they had proposed. The analyst expects GM to shrink to just two divisions, Cadillac (http://autos.aol.com/car-Cadillac-az/) and Chevrolet (http://autos.aol.com/car-Chevrolet-az/). Buick (http://autos.aol.com/car-Buick-az/), Pontiac (http://autos.aol.com/car-Pontiac-az/), GMC (http://autos.aol.com/car-GMC-az/), Saturn (http://autos.aol.com/car-Saturn-az/), and HUMMER (http://autos.aol.com/car-HUMMER-az/) will all cease to exist.

(http://autos.aol.com/gallery/pontiac-all-time)
While GM will soldier on in its smaller form, Wolkonowicz doesn't expect Chrysler to survive in its current form, even with news that Fiat has agreed to a broad partnership. If Wolkonowicz is wrong, the Fiat connection would provide Chrysler with needed small car vehicle platforms, but the fate of vehicles such as the Dodge Charger (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Dodge-Charger-2009/overview) and Chrysler 300 (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chrysler-300-2009/overview) doesn't look good.
Who Is At The Wheel?
This new age of government oversight in the automotive industry may progress using one of two strategies. The first path continues the current practice of setting regulations and then allowing manufacturers to meet those regulations. This allows manufacturers a high degree of flexibility in how they react while developing vehicles consumers want to drive.
However, the essential takeover of GM and Chrysler signals a more active role that will likely dramatically change the way the automakers do business. This second scenario removes the consumer from the auto manufacturing equation. Customer demand is directly superseded by political interest in ecology and energy policy. In other words, manufacturers will only sell vehicles the government allows them to sell.
Even with ever-present worries of fuel prices, some 70-percent of the orders for Chevrolet's all-new 2010 Camaro (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-Camaro-2010/overview) are for the V-8 edition that produces over 400 horsepower (while achieving up to 25 mpg on the highway). Clearly, American drivers want what they want. The question is whether that matches what the U.S. government will want Detroit to build.

Rocket Power
04-29-2009, 11:14 PM
My thinking Pontiac should go away started before the current mess, along with GMC,and some of the others. Not that my opinion matters anyway, once they killed Olds, I stopped liking GM as much and they really don't have anything now I want. I tried to like the G8 but 3900lbs with a V6? and slow to boot. I assume the V8 is quicker but it's still going to be a heavy pig.
Maybe GM will come out with something I like in the future, but for now if I was going to buy a new car it would probably be Ford.

xFullThrottlex
04-29-2009, 11:43 PM
Sad day when Pontiac went, i'm not in the markey nor will I be in the market for a new car for a long while so we'll see what happens when its time for me to make a purchase

Voodoo Chick
04-29-2009, 11:46 PM
Pontiac dying is truly the end of an era.

Sprayaway Fox
04-30-2009, 12:34 AM
I was watching the Ford president on Larry King and he said it was timing when they took a loan out to help the company. He didnt even think this would happen. Just think if the Feds got in in Ford theyd prolly be no more Mustangs.:stare

Nick
04-30-2009, 12:37 AM
HPV?

Human Papilloma Virus?

gottwins?
04-30-2009, 12:39 AM
No fast sports cars?

Oh my god!!! its the 80's all over again!! :violin

Al
04-30-2009, 12:40 AM
Pontiac dying is truly the end of an era.

I agree. After WWII ended, the first thing my grandpa did was buy a new Pontiac. Shortly there after, he offered a few young ladies a ride home from church when it started to rain in Brooklyn, NY. One of them was my grandmother. Her first thought was "i have not seen a new car in a long time."


Wasn't the Pontiac Vibe a strong seller?


Anyway, the Gov stepping in is a temporary solution. Once they back away, the high performance vehicles will return.

Al
04-30-2009, 12:42 AM
double post

SlowStee
04-30-2009, 01:25 AM
No fast sports cars?

Oh my god!!! its the 80's all over again!! :violin

:rolf

jbiscuit
04-30-2009, 07:34 AM
well duh. HPVs don't fall into Obama's plan for what americans need to drive. Now that Washington has money in the card game, they are going to call the shots. This is just the tip of the iceburg. Be prepared to see a lot of your favorites go to the wayside in favor of little shi1box econo boxes....all part of the green initiative that the Prez has wanted all along. Financial troubles for Chrysler and GM have really "helped" Washington move their plans along with stuffing stupid cars down our throats. They seem to "think" they know what we want to buy....I can tell you one thing, I don't want a 1400lb electric car in my driveway anytime soon!

Karps TA
04-30-2009, 07:57 AM
Don't ask the govt for money, then you don't have to worry about the govt telling you what you should do.

Exitspeed
04-30-2009, 08:38 AM
This is old news. They canned the HPV vehicle team months ago.

Also, it's been known for a while that GM is going a different route with the Vette. Lutz said early last year that plans for the C7 are on hold right now but expect the Vette to be a different car in the future. It'll be lighter and probably not use an LSx engine.

Fine with me. Sh*t everyone is using an ecotec for performance vehicles (ariel Atom is one).

Despite that article I don't believe that the gov is going to control GM's complete portfolio. Look at it this way. The gov wants GM to be competitive right? They want their investment to be a good one. You can't do that by only having cars that compete in a few segments of the market. You can't NOT compete with the Genesis sedan, and coupe, you can't NOT compete with the Mustang, you can't NOT compete with 3 Series, etc etc.

As long as they meet the new CAFE regulations why should the government care if they try to also compete with the rest of the industry?

But I will say that the HP wars are over. And that's a good thing IMO. Now they can concentrate on making lighter more efficient sports cars. That technology then trickles down to regular production cars.

There's so much more I'd like to add to this, but I don't have time.

Karps TA
04-30-2009, 08:39 AM
In many ways this is all a great thing. Saves me money from ever having to buy brand new cars ever again.

floaters
04-30-2009, 09:23 AM
No fast sports cars?

Oh my god!!! its the 80's all over again!! :violin

minus the gn based cars :thumbsup

xFullThrottlex
04-30-2009, 09:44 AM
In many ways this is all a great thing. Saves me money from ever having to buy brand new cars ever again.


I'm in your boat dude. Im just going to maintain what I have until the wheels fall off and then if I want a "new" vehicle it will be a "new to me vehicle" that i bought off someone in a similar situation. This whole bailout chapter 11 government controled economy bs has really turned me off from ever buying a new car.

Irish
04-30-2009, 10:11 AM
Couldn't they just bring Pontiac back once they are back on their feet?

Plum Crazy
04-30-2009, 10:23 AM
GMs HPVO (high performance vehicle operations)has been disbanded since mid Febuary
http://www.carthrottle.com/gm-to-disband-high-performance-vehicles-operation/

Fords SVT has been gone since 2006

Only SRT is still around.

Car Guy
04-30-2009, 11:22 AM
SRT will be ancient history in no time......:)

DurtyKurty
04-30-2009, 12:25 PM
waaa waaa waaaaaaaaaaa.... Hey, Pontiac! Say hi to Oldsmobile and Plymouth when you get to the other side! :loser


FoMoCo FTMFW!

Yeah.... I said it. :D

07ROUSHSTG3
04-30-2009, 12:47 PM
[quote=TeamRev SUPPORT;534961]G

Fords SVT has been gone since 2006

[quote]

:confused:confused:confused:confused

Windsors 03 Cobra
04-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Yea SVT is dead and SRT has gone bankrupt.

Ford being a family Company and the Ford family making it work instead of throwing all their money away filing bankruptcy FTW.

07ROUSHSTG3
04-30-2009, 01:11 PM
svt is not dead, it is on life support. big difference IMO.

BlueOvalBolt
04-30-2009, 01:12 PM
Fords SVT has been gone since 2006.

SVT has been down but not out. This is the new SVT Raptor available early summer. More SVT projects are still being worked on but obviously its a bad time for any perfromance division to make the business case for bringing more performance products to market.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor

http://i43.tinypic.com/sooh02.jpg

gottwins?
04-30-2009, 02:36 PM
SVT has been down but not out. This is the new SVT Raptor available early summer. More SVT projects are still being worked on but obviously its a bad time for any perfromance division to make the business case for bringing more performance products to market.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor

http://i43.tinypic.com/sooh02.jpg

Holy Nissan Titan!!

http://trucks.about.com/library/graphics/2005_txtitan_3_4front.jpg

I can see why they are on life support....

Karps TA
04-30-2009, 02:39 PM
I don't really see the Ford looking like the Nissan. ??

I'm not much of a truck person but I think the Raptor is pretty sweet looking.

gottwins?
04-30-2009, 02:46 PM
I don't really see the Ford looking like the Nissan. ??

I'm not much of a truck person but I think the Raptor is pretty sweet looking.

I can tell the similarities, I guess im just upset since the lightning was my favorite truck at one point in time...low, sleek, and fast...the raptor already lacks 2 of those.

lordairgtar
04-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Anyway, the Gov stepping in is a temporary solution. Once they back away, the high performance vehicles will return.
Oh really? Income tax was only supposed to be temporary too. Once the gummint gets their tentacles in something, they don't let go. Polosi and her bunch will decide what the proletariat needs to drive. Der vill be vun kar for de masses und der leaders vill get vot they vants.

Irish
04-30-2009, 06:32 PM
waaa waaa waaaaaaaaaaa.... Hey, Pontiac! Say hi to Oldsmobile and Plymouth when you get to the other side! :loser


FoMoCo FTMFW!

Yeah.... I said it. :D

Lmao!

Plum Crazy
04-30-2009, 07:25 PM
I have a buddy that works for an undisclosed company in MI, they do alot of work on upcoming vehicles, they took one of the raptors out for a spin, he said they were jumping curbs at 60 mph and the truck acted like it was a crack in the pavement, but thats to be expected with 16k in suspension parts