What stroker kit?

[Fast95Stang]

Some of you may have read my other thread (http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36903) and learned that I'm going to rebuild my engine. I'm thinking about building a high compression 331. The reason I want to go to a 331 is because I found that most kits to build a 306 are the same price as a 331 kit. Also to my knowledge the block does not require machining and for a 347 it would. (Trying to save some money, and I don't hear as many people with 331's. I like to do things different.) Am I correct on this? I have been looking at kits from D.S.S, Scat, Eagle, and Probe and maybe one other I can't remember. I will be keeping it NA so I am looking at the kits with cast cranks. What stroker kit(s) do you recommend and why? What features/benefits/advantages do they offer? What is the "safest" compression ratio that can be run with pump gas (93 octane)?

Thanks in advance

[-stew-]

fordstrokers.com

I've read nothing but good things about them on corral.net. I haven't done a lot of price checking, but they seem pretty good on price. From what I can tell the level of customer service is spectacular. I will be investigating further when I begin my 408.

[Sprayaway Fox]

Just a lil more info: Iron heads? Stick?Cam size? Rear Gear?

With a 11.1 You plan on shifting around 6200-7000?

[dr doom]

DO NOT USE D.S.S.
My motor was built by Jim @ Fordstrokers.com I have no complaints. Give him a call and tell him Guy sent you.

[badass88gt]

Brian Adams at AD Performance.com. I would go with something from Scat or Eagle, Scat cranks do have a little nicer finishing on them. The Scat 9000 cast crank will outlast your stock block.

If you want to go with Probe he sells them also and he will give you the best price and service anywhere. For references you can search around on Corral, his screen name is Eagle. You wont find any complaints. As far as the block machining onthe 347, it can be done at home. It requires a die grinder and an hour of time.

To quote Jay Allen:
The only reasons to build a 331 is that:
-You do not know how to fit rings.
-Your machinist cannot hone a circle.
-The engine assembler does not understand ring spacers.
-You run a class that is lbs/cid and this cid fits your car.
-You want to make less power for the same money.

[HRSEPLA]

There is a reason you usually don't see alot of something...
Something similar usually works better without much or any sacrifice...
I will never build small cubes again, it now costs the same to build a larger motor... Easier on parts and you dont have to rev the crap out of it or beat it up to make the power you want.

[folkswagen]

why not just build a 351 and use the money you were gonna use on the internals on heads?

[badass88gt]

Apples for apples a 347 will outrun a comparably built 351.

[dr doom]

Apples for apples a 347 will outrun a comparably built 351.

HAHAHA theres a good joke. You bring a built 347 and put it against my built 351w :rolf.

[badass88gt]

I said comparble. Same heads, induction, camshaft, etc. You really think 4 cubic inches will make that much of a difference? How about the added weight of the 9.5" engine over the 8.2"? Something tells me the extra 100# of a 9.5" will far outweigh the extra 4 cubes you would gain. Now, if he were staring from scratch, absolutey run the 351 based setup.

I have a mildly built 347. If I'm ever down there I will gladly take you up on your offer, assuming we're talking apples to apples like I mentioned.

[yellow vert]

I think what dr doom meant was if you are going to stroke a 302 and make it a 347 he might want to do a 408 or 418 instead. However, if he wants to keep the cost down I would do a 347.

[dr doom]

I said comparble. Same heads, induction, camshaft, etc. You really think 4 cubic inches will make that much of a difference? How about the added weight of the 9.5" engine over the 8.2"? Something tells me the extra 100# of a 9.5" will far outweigh the extra 4 cubes you would gain. Now, if he were staring from scratch, absolutey run the 351 based setup.

I have a mildly built 347. If I'm ever down there I will gladly take you up on your offer, assuming we're talking apples to apples like I mentioned.


Now youre the one not comparing apples to apples :). A 347 is a 302 that is bored and stroked, and if you go with the 351 bored and stroked the same amount, thats a night and day difference. Also why would you put the same heads and intake on a 302 and a 351 based motor? Essentially you would choke the 351.

[70 cutlass 442]

DO NOT USE D.S.S.
My motor was built by Jim @ Fordstrokers.com I have no complaints. Give him a call and tell him Guy sent you.


whats wrong with dss?



Apples for apples a 347 will outrun a comparably built 351.


how do you figure? a 351 is the same bore size as a 347 wich means that that extra 4 CID is in the stroke which means more power...... stroek a 351 to a 393 or larger and your talking huge torque gains.


I said comparble. Same heads, induction, camshaft, etc. You really think 4 cubic inches will make that much of a difference? How about the added weight of the 9.5" engine over the 8.2"? Something tells me the extra 100# of a 9.5" will far outweigh the extra 4 cubes you would gain. Now, if he were staring from scratch, absolutey run the 351 based setup.

I have a mildly built 347. If I'm ever down there I will gladly take you up on your offer, assuming we're talking apples to apples like I mentioned.

i think you should both hit your shit with a 100 shot and rev it to 7K rpm..... then see whos motor is left standing..... my $$ is on the 351

[Reverend Cooper]

^ I will guarantee that 347 stays together with a 100 shot all day long.

[dr doom]

whats wrong with dss?





how do you figure? a 351 is the same bore size as a 347 wich means that that extra 4 CID is in the stroke which means more power...... stroek a 351 to a 393 or larger and your talking huge torque gains.



i think you should both hit your shit with a 100 shot and rev it to 7K rpm..... then see whos motor is left standing..... my $$ is on the 351

DSS has lots of complaints, lots of blown up motors. When I was looking for an engine builder the sales person at DSS acted like an A** on the phone. I knew right away my money wasnt gonna be spent there.

[dr doom]

^ I will guarantee that 347 stays together with a 100 shot all day long.

Umm maybe if im over revving my motor to 7k. If i rev it to 5800 or 6k even mine will stay together for a very long time.:thumbsup

[70 cutlass 442]

^ I will guarantee that 347 stays together with a 100 shot all day long.

302 windsor blocks are much weaker then the 351W blocks.

[badass88gt]

Dr Doom, I'm curious, whats your combo, weight, and stats (HP and ET?)


I'm comparing the 350-ish cube engines to each other. No shit a stroked 9.5 will stomp a stroked 8.2, thats a no-brainer. When comparing the 347cid to the 351cid the 347 will make better power. It is roughly 80-100 pounds lighter that the 351, it has a lighter rotatiing assemble, less rotational mass, and has been proven over and over, I have seen it first hand. Now, like I said, when comparing to a 9.5 stroker, there is no contest.

I love discussions like this. Debates are fun. Arguments suck.

[badass88gt]

Also why would you put the same heads and intake on a 302 and a 351 based motor? Essentially you would choke the 351.

We werent talking about a 302, we were talking about 347. We werent talking about 408, we were talking about 351. Why wouldnt you run the same head on 2 engines that are only 4 cubes different?




i think you should both hit your shit with a 100 shot and rev it to 7K rpm..... then see whos motor is left standing..... my $$ is on the 351


No problem. I would take that bet any day of the week. Better yet, lets go with a 300 shot. Thats a little more of a test for mine. Then if that 351 is still running we can add a second stage, lol....then maybe mine will flinch.:thumbsup

[badass88gt]

302 windsor blocks are much weaker then the 351W blocks.

He was talking about mine specifically. You are correct about the 302 roller blocks being junk. However, it is argued that the early casting 8.2" blocks are every bit as strong as the early 351 blocks.

[70 cutlass 442]

No problem. I would take that bet any day of the week. Better yet, lets go with a 300 shot. Thats a little more of a test for mine. Then if that 351 is still running we can add a second stage, lol....then maybe mine will flinch.:thumbsup

what block do you have? if you are runnign the new boss with a forged bottem end then hands down you will have any facotry block covered..... but if you have a OEM block ten you are on barrowed time no matter what....

[dr doom]

Dr Doom, I'm curious, whats our combo, weight, and stats (HP and ET?)


I'm comparing the 350-ish cube engines to each other. No shit a stroked 9.5 will stopm a stroked 8.2, thats a no-brainer. When comparing the 347cid to the 351cid the 347 will make better power. It is roughly 80-100 pounds lighter that the 351, it has a lighter rotatiing assemble, less rotational mass, and has been proven over and over, I have seen it first hand. Now, like I said, when comparing to a 9.5 stroker, there is no contest.

I love discussions like this. Debates are fun. Arguments suck.

See you still arent comparing the same two things here. A 347 is a stroked 302. Stroke a 351 the same amount and a 351 is going to be a much better motor. Even with the added weight of the 351 the increase in horsepower is huge. A strong 347 is gonna put down 350ish to the tires. A stroked 351 will be well in the 400 range.

[DRK]

My N/A 347 puts down over 400rwhp, shit it makes 370ftlbs at the tires at 3300rpm.

[badass88gt]

But nobody mentioned anything about a stroked 351 engine. I was discussing the engines that were mentioned, a 347 and the 351. You need to do a little better research, my 347 puts down 420 at the wheels with unported heads, hydro cam and 93 octane. Your 350hp number is off.

[badass88gt]

what block do you have? if you are runnign the new boss with a forged bottem end then hands down you will have any facotry block covered..... but if you have a OEM block ten you are on barrowed time no matter what....


You are correct, though I wouldnt waste my money on a Boss block. I have a Dart in mine, I also have a Moldex billet crank and Carrillo billet rods in it. Some have said it is overkill for a daily driver, lol.

[Fast95Stang]

Just a lil more info: Iron heads? Stick?Cam size? Rear Gear?

With a 11.1 You plan on shifting around 6200-7000?
I have Brodix ST 5.0 heads (http://www.brodix.com/heads/st.html). Manual trans. Have to check on cam specs. 3.73's in the rear.

I don't know what compression ratio I'll be running or where I plan on shifting...

why not just build a 351 and use the money you were gonna use on the internals on heads?
A 351 is out of the question, I already have the 302 based block and I want to do this on somewhat of a budget. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to go cheap, just not spend unnecessary money. I'm glad you guys are having a great discussion about 347's and 351's but could we get back on topic?

I will definately check out fordstrokers.com and AD Performance.com. I have to say everyone has convinced me to build a 347. I just have a couple questions... Will I be able to use the cam out of my 306? I know this will be a tough one to answer without any cam specs. What are the fuel system requirements? Right now I have a 190 lph pump with 30lb injectors.

[BOSS LX]

I have Brodix ST 5.0 heads (http://www.brodix.com/heads/st.html). Manual trans. Have to check on cam specs. 3.73's in the rear.

I don't know what compression ratio I'll be running or where I plan on shifting...

A 351 is out of the question, I already have the 302 based block and I want to do this on somewhat of a budget. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to go cheap, just not spend unnecessary money. I'm glad you guys are having a great discussion about 347's and 351's but could we get back on topic?

I will definately check out fordstrokers.com and AD Performance.com. I have to say everyone has convinced me to build a 347. I just have a couple questions... Will I be able to use the cam out of my 306? I know this will be a tough one to answer without any cam specs. What are the fuel system requirements? Right now I have a 190 lph pump with 30lb injectors.

Another vote for AD Performance.com. My motor was not built there, but I ordered everything from them. I have heard nothing about good things about their machine shop.

With your heads, a 347 is a good choice. As for the cam, it is worth it to pony up some more money to look at other cam options.

[Fast95Stang]

Another vote for AD Performance.com. My motor was not built there, but I ordered everything from them. I have heard nothing about good things about there machine shop.

With your heads, a 347 is a good choice. As for the cam, it is worth it to pony up some more money to look at other cam options.
Cool, I will be having my engine built locally but I may order from them.

Any cam recomendations?

Also, I have a brand new Edelbrock Performer intake manifold. I was in the process of putting it on when I found all this crap. Will this manifold work well with a high compression 347? Or will it hold the engine back as far as making power? I plan to have it ported and polished before I put it on, that is if it's the manifold I use.

[BOSS LX]

Cool, I will be having my engine built locally but I may order from them.

Any cam recomendations?

Also, I have a brand new Edelbrock Performer intake manifold. I was in the process of putting it on when I found all this crap. Will this manifold work well with a high compression 347? Or will it hold the engine back as far as making power? I plan to have it ported and polished before I put it on, that is if it's the manifold I use.

What happened to your PER 306?

[badass88gt]

Keep in mind, 302 (306) parts will make 302 power. Keep it under 6500rpm on the roller block. I would try and sell that intake and look for something a little more potent. For compression keep it under 11:1 for 93 octane. The cam upgrade would be a definite benefit. I'm a firm believer in custom grinds spec'd out for your combo, and I'm a loyal Flowtech Induction customer. His cam exceeded all of my "requirements" and his customer service is amazing. Do a search on Ed Curtis FTI around the net, you will find lots of haters, none of them are actual customers of his. I have yet to see anyone unhappy with the performance of his products, and I have asked a few times in my own threads on Corral, lol.

[Fast95Stang]

My buddy told me that his co-worker has a 347 on an engine stand that he is willing to sell. He is going to sell it for a VERY good price!:banana1: I just have to wait for him to break in his new 347 and as long as everything is fine with that one I will be picking up the other one. The engine was built by C&S which I have heard is a great shop. It has 3,000 miles on it, he has all of the receipts and also the dyno sheet. He told me that the engine dyno'ed at 475 through GT-40 heads!! I have Brodix ST-5.0 heads, I can only imagine what that will do for it!!!:wow After I buy the engine I am deffinately taking it to a shop to have it looked over before I put it in my car. I will even have the shop run it to make sure its all OK.

What fuel system should I run? Right now I have a 190lph pump and 30# injectors.

[yellow vert]

Hi Greg why do you think that you need a new motor? Have you done any testing to see what could have gone bad? I cannot remember where I saw it but I think that you said that there was oil in the intake. One last question where you running valve caver breathers and the PCV system?

[Nick 1]

HAHAHA theres a good joke. You bring a built 347 and put it against my built 351w :rolf.



How about 281" with a little boost ???

[DRK]

I had to post this response to this that was on MMA


I thought I knew how to waste money.......I could learn something here.:alc:
Properly diagnose and fix what you have. If you're worried about it being contaminated-take it apart and clean it. If you're worried about blow-by or using oil, prove it. Don't go overboard and blow a bunch of cash just because-you're not going to to come out ahead in this situation.

[FourEyedFord]

The engine was built by C&S which I have heard is a great shop. It has 3,000 miles on it, he has all of the receipts and also the dyno sheet. He told me that the engine dyno'ed at 475 through GT-40 heads!!

475 HP with GT40 heads N/A? That seems a little steep to me, but I could maybe see that with your Brodix heads.

I would maybe look at just doing your own thing, something new since you only need a short block. Probe/JE/Ross pistons, Eagle 4340 crank, Eagle 4340 H-beam rods and call it a day! Eagle stuff is great, and has proven that it can handle over 1000hp and revs up to 8000rpm with just 4340 stuff. In my opinion I wouldn't try and cut corners now, who knows what you will want to do in the future, and it will be nice to have a little extra insurance. I know you still have a stock block and it will mostly be you limiting factor, but I would still go with the 4340 stuff.

[badass88gt]

475 flywheel hp no problem. 475 at the wheels, no way in hell.

I agree with the 4340 stuff if the budget allows it. If not, theres certainly nothing wrong with the Scat 9000 cranks.

[yellow vert]

I still think that there is nothing wrong with the old motor. But if you wont a new motor than never mined.

[badass88gt]

You are probably correct. I'm sure its fine.

[Project FS]

I had to post this response to this that was on MMA

Maybe now this thread will die instantly like when I posted it on MMA.

[badass88gt]

Mixed Martial Arts? Mercury Mountaineers Anonymous?

[Project FS]

Mixed Martial Arts? Mercury Mountaineers Anonymous?

Massive Monkey Ass......

[Fast95Stang]

This is Greg's wife Lynn, and I just want to clarify some of the speculations many of you are having...

Greg is not rebuilding the engine just to "waste money." He has been talking to a number of people who have helped him with his options. I, as his wife, have been behind his decisions this whole entire time.

Many of you who are questioning his plan here on BCM or on another forum (some of you don't even post, you just read) don't even know Greg or the history of issues we have had with this motor from DAY ONE! He isn't the type of guy to do something without researching it, talking to builders/performance shops, and other HONEST people who have always helped him and guided him with their advice.

There are many other things that we have dealt with since the day we brought the motor home almost 3 years ago. Many people helped Greg during the first year to get the kinks worked out, and I thank you! (you know who you are!!!) Beyond the '06 engine build, we have put a ton of money into the car and into other components of the engine to correct issues we had within the first couple months.

Thus why we have decided to rebuild! Greg has always wanted more power! And I am not going to lie, I have too! Three years ago he had a crappy job, and didn't have the money to put a bigger engine in at the time. The last 2 1/2 years have been very good for us, and at this time we have the money to make the engine bigger.

There were other issues we needed to address prior to discovering the push rods were bad. The noise that Greg first posted about could possibly be something totally different, and the oil burning and leaking could possibly be something totally different, the "blow by" could be causing some of these issues. Up until just recently the car has been sitting, Greg is in the process of pulling it out right now. We ARE going to "go through it" and see what else we can find. However, why put the same parts back in when we are financially able to upgrade now?

We are lucky to have some awesome friends, many of whom we have met through this website. One of Greg's friends has a buddy who has an extra rebuilt 347 sitting on an engine stand, that he is selling. Turns out, it is an even better deal that anyone could imagine. YES we are going to have it gone through before putting it in the Mustang, and yes we are going to have the old engine looked at too and get out the remaining good parts, so that we can help out another buddy, who has our old 302 block! Things are not going to be wasted, and Greg WANTS to do this!

This car is a dream come true for him! He loves to work on it, drive it, and go to the Grove with it. It is too bad that his dad is not able to be here to enjoy it with him, but we know he is watching down on him and is proud of his son!

Opportunity knocked to upgrade, and that is what we have decided to do!

Thank you to all the people who have offered suggestions and advice through all of this. We do appreciate it greatly!

Thank you for your time!

Lynn

[badass88gt]

Aint nothing wrong with upgrading.

[DRK]

#1 why ask for advice if your just going to do what you want in the end anyway?

#2 you could make more power with a blower on your 302 then a N/A 347 will ever make and it would cost you less.

#3 good luck making any power with your 302 parts on a 347

[mr.gone1985]

If you want to upgade then go for it!! I think it is awesome that Lynn and Greg are doing this and they sound like they are doing it together. How many wives would stand up for their husbands like this. Build what you want, how you want it.

[badass88gt]

#1 why ask for advice if your just going to do what you want in the end anyway?

#2 you could make more power with a blower on your 302 then a N/A 347 will ever make and it would cost you less.

#3 good luck making any power with your 302 parts on a 347

I think originally he was going to have the 302 fixed until he found a screaming deal on the 347. Nothing wrong with that. I do agree with #3, there are alot of things that *should* get attention on the car when going to the 347. The heads will be fine, but intake, MAF, TB, injectors, cam, exhaust, balancer, flywheel, are all things that will need to be looked at to make sure it is sufficient.

[Fast95Stang]

If you want to upgade then go for it!! I think it is awesome that Lynn and Greg are doing this and they sound like they are doing it together. How many wives would stand up for their husbands like this. Build what you want, how you want it.

Thanks for the support! Lynn has always supported my hobby! We have been working on the car together since the day SHE found it and took me to see it when I bought it 5 years ago!

I'll post some pics later from the first engine swap in '06. She was in the engine bay cleaning everything.

Thanks again!

[Fast95Stang]

I think originally he was going to have the 302 fixed until he found a screaming deal on the 347. Nothing wrong with that. I do agree with #3, there are alot of things that *should* get attention on the car when going to the 347. The heads will be fine, but intake, MAF, TB, injectors, cam, exhaust, balancer, flywheel, are all things that will need to be looked at to make sure it is sufficient.

Thanks Dan! We appreciate all the kind things and support!

We are going to make sure that parts that I have will work and if not, upgrade.