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Exitspeed
04-16-2009, 08:39 AM
I thought for sure Pontiac would be still be a good idea for GM as a niche brand. I realize GMC is big for commercial trucking, but that could easily be transferred to Chevy.

Saab, Hummer, and Saturn can go as far as I'm concerned. I wonder what will happen with The G8. It would make a nice Impala wouldn't it...:thumbsup

Here's a link to the article: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aH6K5WdHvDcQ&refer=home


By Jeff Green and Serena Saitto

April 16 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., facing a June 1 U.S.-backed bankruptcy, may drop its Pontiac and GMC brands as part of broader cost-cutting moves, people familiar with the discussions said.

GM’s Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick brands are likely safe, said the people, who asked not to be named because decisions aren’t final. GMC and Pontiac are being studied as part of talks with an Obama administration task force assessing whether GM can be restructured without bankruptcy, the people said.

Shedding Pontiac or GMC would mean a deeper bite into GM’s portfolio of eight U.S. brands than in its Feb. 17 blueprint for keeping $13.4 billion in federal loans. GM said then it would keep Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC and retain Pontiac as a niche line while selling or closing Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

GMC has a better chance of surviving than Pontiac, one of the people said. GMC sells only light trucks such as the Sierra pickup, while Pontiac’s offerings include the descendants of the brand’s high-performance models from the 1960s and 1970s.

Among the decisions yet to be reached is what would happen to Pontiac or GMC should Detroit-based GM opt not to keep them, the people said.

President Barack Obama set the June time limit for GM to revamp its survival plan to find more savings from unions, creditors and operations. Chrysler LLC, which borrowed $4 billion, was given a May 1 deadline to reorganize and merge with Italy’s Fiat SpA.

‘Aggressively Restructure’

“We are continuing to assess our global operations, brand portfolio and nameplates, and will take further actions to more aggressively restructure our business,” Renee Rashid-Merem, a GM spokeswoman, said yesterday. “It’s premature to comment on what those actions could entail.”

A Treasury spokeswoman, Jenni Engebretsen, had no comment.

The reassessment of GM’s earlier decision to keep Pontiac and the future of all of the brands are among topics in meetings this week between executives of the biggest U.S. automaker and a Treasury team led by adviser Harry J. Wilson, the people said.

The number of brands is also part of a discussion on how to speed up the winnowing of GM’s 6,200 dealer locations to 4,100 sites, said one person.

Franchise agreements with some underperforming dealers may be ended by June 1 to hasten the shrinkage, Reuters reported late yesterday, quoting an unnamed dealer who received a notice.

GM gained 11 cents, or 6.2 percent, to $1.89 yesterday in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have tumbled 90 percent in the past year amid fears of a collapse by the company, which has posted $82 billion in losses since 2004.

Bankruptcy Preparation

GM has stepped up planning for both a new business model and a potential bankruptcy since March 29, when Obama asked Rick Wagoner to leave as chief executive officer and said he would back a “quick-rinse” bankruptcy to cut debt and other costs.

New CEO Fritz Henderson has said that while GM would prefer restructuring without a bankruptcy, Obama’s new demand makes a filing more probable. A GM bankruptcy probably would spur creation of a new company that keeps only the best brands and other assets, people familiar with those plans have said.

To avoid bankruptcy, Henderson needs agreements from unions and debt holders for savings beyond GM’s February proposal for slashing $47 billion in unsecured claims by 59 percent. He said last month that GM also may need to eliminate more jobs than the 47,000 set for this year and shut more factories than planned.

The review of Pontiac and GMC clouds the future for brands dating to the earliest years of GM, which turned 100 in September.

Coupes, Pickups

The Pontiac division was created by GM in 1926 and posted peak U.S. sales of 896,980 in 1978, according to trade publication Automotive News. GM sold a record 9.55 million vehicles worldwide that year, which came at the end of an era when Pontiac won notice for sports coupes such as the Firebird.

Pontiac’s domestic deliveries fell 25 percent to 267,348 in 2008.

GMC’s truck-building history dates to 1902, when brothers Max and Morris Grabowsky sold their first commercial model to a Detroit dry cleaner, according to GM’s Web site. Their Rapid Motor Vehicle Co. was absorbed by GM in 1912, along with two other Detroit-based commercial-vehicle makers, GM said.

By 1915, GMC produced the first light-duty vehicle with the basic configuration of a modern pickup, according to the automaker. GMC’s U.S. sales fell 26 percent last year to 376,996, making it GM’s second-largest brand after Chevrolet.

Chevrolet and Cadillac are GM’s strongest brands and Buick is popular in China, said the people familiar with the automaker’s discussions.

GM said yesterday it has “multiple bidders” for its Saturn dealer network, including a group led by Oklahoma City private-equity firm Black Oak Partners LLC. Potential buyers for Hummer also have signaled their interest, Henderson said in March.

Saab, based in Trollhaettan, Sweden, filed for protection from creditors on Feb. 20 after GM said it will cut ties by the end of the year.

To contact the reporters on this story: Jeff Green in Southfield, Michigan at jgreen16@bloomberg.net; Serena Saitto in New York at ssaitto@bloomberg.net

domokun
04-16-2009, 08:48 AM
must be that 3800 that brought down Pontiac :-p

Karps TA
04-16-2009, 09:00 AM
I'm thinking my current car will likely be the last GM product I ever buy. If they kill off GMC and Pontiac that essentially shuts down the dealership my mom works at. So I won't see any discounts on parts and service. I might as well buy something else then.

Not too mention GM will then have killed off the 2 brands most responsible for me even getting into cars with both Olds and Pontiac gone.

Everytime I see a news item on GM, it just makes it harder and harder for me to give a damn about them anymore.

Plum Crazy
04-16-2009, 09:08 AM
ill believe it when i see it.

Silver350
04-16-2009, 09:57 AM
I dont understand this Obama Gives GM money to stay in buisness to help with the economy right? Well what is this going to do for GM when they shut down two brand name vehicles how many plants and Thousands will lose their jobs. How is that helping?

Waver
04-16-2009, 10:15 AM
well honestly I think that they should keep Gmc for just commercial stuff, like ford does with Sterling, and make Pontiac a sub thing like geo was in the first place, but have Pontiac get back to their roots.....PERFORMANCE.......they seem to have gotten away from that in the last few years

Windsors 03 Cobra
04-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I sure think they should dump GMC, I feel badge engineering is a waste of time and money, just My opinion, GM commercial trucks anyway a couple of izusu tilt cabs and some glorified pick up trucks ?

Sterling truck isnt Ford either, Ford's very popular and good selling heavy duty trucks were sold 12 years ago to DaimlerAG which renamed the Ford trucks Sterlings, Ford doesnt make Tractors anymore either, some that to New Holland Who is owned by Fiat who is going to duy DaimlerAG's old ChryCo.
Cool. :rolleyes:
GM doesnt own Detroit Diesel anymore either, DaimlerAG owns that and General Electric bought Electro Motive from GM years ago. I wonder who owns Hughes now, another former GM subsidiary. Surprised GM hasnt sold the Allison Division yet.

GM should be GM and Caddy IMO
Ford should be Ford and Lincoln
And Chrysler should be Chrysler and Fiat

Slash and cut to prifitibility and make a go of it. :alcoholic
DaimlerAG: We got some stuff.

Goat Roper
04-16-2009, 10:53 AM
I dont understand this Obama Gives GM money to stay in buisness to help with the economy right? Well what is this going to do for GM when they shut down two brand name vehicles how many plants and Thousands will lose their jobs. How is that helping?

The money was to keep them afloat for the short term. Shedding brands is part of the long term fix.

Prince Valiant
04-16-2009, 11:00 AM
well honestly I think that they should keep Gmc for just commercial stuff, like ford does with Sterling...



Sterling truck isnt Ford either, Ford's very popular and good selling heavy duty trucks were sold 12 years ago to DaimlerAG...

I was about to say...this doesn't look like a ford:

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6129&stc=1&d=1239897639

wrath
04-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Cutting anything other than Saab, Hummer, and Saturn is going to spell death for GM. It has never worked that way. It might delay the failure at best. They're better off keeping money pit Saturn, can't sell hardly anything Saab, and fallen from the public's eye Hummer than they are cutting any more brands.

Waver
04-16-2009, 11:38 AM
Meh, what do I know, I dont sell them, however I do remember that when I was at a ford fun weekend, there was a few guys running the sterling embelem on their lightnings and hd edition f-150's.....The time line is right though from when I saw them with those badging, 8 years ago.

Exitspeed
04-16-2009, 12:18 PM
must be that 3800 that brought down Pontiac :-p

It's more the cars that the 3800 was in that brought them down.



Everytime I see a news item on GM, it just makes it harder and harder for me to give a damn about them anymore.

Yeah the media has murdered GM. I love how they don't talk about the rest of the industries whoa's.

GM has a better line-up of cars right now then they have had in their history. They actually have a handful of vehicles that truly rival their competitors in every way. I'm not just talking about 0-60 numbers. In the last 3 years what they've been able to accomplish in improved interior design has been spectacular. Of course if you listen to the media on everything you won't realize the Malibu has the best interior in it's class and you might not even go test drive one. Instead you end up with a Camry or and Accord because that's what the media tells you is best.



I dont understand this Obama Gives GM money to stay in buisness to help with the economy right? Well what is this going to do for GM when they shut down two brand name vehicles how many plants and Thousands will lose their jobs. How is that helping?

The negative perception of GM isn't going to change overnight. That's unrealistic. However by shedding all these brands they are going to make huge strides and their future will look quit bright.

One of their biggest problems right now is that these brands don't have identities any more.

Saab used to be a quirky Swede car. Now, while it arguably looks better, has lost it's core buyer because it doesn't have that same head turning quirkiness it used to.

Hummer of course has an identity, but it's one that no one wants to touch with a ten foot pool right now. They wanted Hummer off the books before the year was up last year. Unfortunately it's not easy finding a buyer for a brand who's sales are down 75%.

Pontiac has sports cars...but it also has a lot that waters down the brand. The G6 while a stellar seller isn't a sports car by any definition. The badge engineered G3, and G5 do even more damage to the brands identity. I'd love to see the brand survive with just the Solstice and G8. They could really focus on those cars then and market them as performance vehicles that don't break the bank but rival cars costing a lot more. The G8 has better performance numbers then the M5, but since they don't do a ton of advertising (other then magazines) no one knows.

Saturn has a great line-up right now but they aren't that "different kind of car" they used to be either. Yeah the plastic doors were kinda gimmicky, but everyone knew they had plastic doors right? I wish they had the line-up they do now 10 years ago. They'd be in much better shape.

Buick has sorta lost it's way here int eh states but I can't see them getting rid of the brand right now unless they sell it to a Chinese investor. Buick is China's best selling car brand, and if GM can make it through this recession it'll have a gold mine on it's hands down the road.

Chevy and Cadillac are really what they need to focus most of their efforts on though. We all know that. Both brands still have a great image. Cadillac's design language is so unique. It's flashy and techy, buy doesn't polarize. They just need a better 3 Series competitor which they said WILL be out by 2011. The DTS and STS should be replaced and honestly, the Escalade doesn't do what it used to. They can get rid of that IMO. I don't think there's any need to talk about Chevy other then the Aveo needs to be replaced by the Beat.


ill believe it when i see it.

With all that said, I agree. So much is up in the air right now. Unless your sitting at the Corporate table crunching numbers you have no idea what's going on. It's all speculation until June.


The money was to keep them afloat for the short term. Shedding brands is part of the long term fix.

Bingo.

LEWETHETIGER73
04-16-2009, 01:55 PM
This might be good for Pontiac to shed it's GM affiliation. Maybe Oakland Pontiac might be due for a return!! This way they can focus on performance and style while GM flounders. Then we can eventually get some more performance wars going. All it will take is a team of American investors.

Al
04-16-2009, 03:42 PM
must be that 3800 that brought down Pontiac :-p

Or the lack there of.