GM Recall

[michelle]

To those who own a GM.



General Motors Corp. is recalling 1.5 million vehicles because of potential engine fires.

GM says there have been no reports of any fires or injuries.

Some of the recalled vehicles are no longer in production. The recall includes the 1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue, the 1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1997-2003 Buick Regal, and the 1998-2003 Chevrolet Lumina, Monte Carlo and Impala.

It involves vehicles with a 3.8-liter V6 engine. The government says drops of oil could fall into the exhaust system and cause a fire in the engine.

GM spokesman Kerry Christopher says it was a precautionary measure for consumers.

http://cbs13.com/consumer_news/general.motors.recall.2.984041.html


Sorry Team 3800. :goof

[Exitspeed]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=527778#post527778

[CannotPost]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=527778#post527778

I disagree, I know of a few 3800's that have been very reliable..... I would say one of gm's most durable engines.

[DocDave]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here.

I also dis-agree. The 3800 is the one thing GM has done right over the years.

[JC70SS]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=527778#post527778

Wrong! One of their best....get informed please:rolleyes:

[Brian98GTP]

Wrong! One of their best....get informed please:rolleyes:

Ditto.:rolleyes:

[Plum Crazy]

this has to do with the EGR burning a hole in the intake manifold, the recall is probably a new intake, we've replaced enough of them.

[Exitspeed]

^lol at the last part...

Oh I agree it WAS a great engine back in the late 80's when it was in the GN. It's OLD technology and one of the reasons

This recall issue we are just hearing about now has been under investigation since 2007.

That effected 208,000 vehicles. Granted the engine was whored out to Pontiacs, Buicks, Chevys, Olds, and even Holdens so it was in millions of vehicles.

They have this issue and they also have coolant leak issues because of the plastic intake mani.

I'm well aware of it's dependability...My brother in-law went through three of'em in a year.

Yeah, I should get learned more...

You guys can like them. I just think they are piles.

[Irish]

I was gonna say it had to be decent.. GTP, Regal GS, Impala SS, etc.. Isn't the 3800 the "grandson" of the rear wheel drive 3.8, 90 deg. smaller version of the 4.3?

[Irish]

Oh I agree it WAS a great engine when it was in the GNX.
Yeah, I should get learned more...


Isn't the 3800 different than the 3.8 231 ci in the GN's and GNX's?:rolf:rolf:rolf

[Exitspeed]

Isn't the 3800 different than the 3.8 231 ci in the GN's and GNX's?

Oh wait. You are right. I take back the comment about it being good back then. :durr

It was mostly used in all their sh*tty cars in the late 80's until recently when they realized it sucked compared to other V6's on the market.

[Exitspeed]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2543/motivator8610019.jpg

[Waver]

Wow....that is kind of funy, because it was a normal thing to see those engines hit 200,000k or more. I even seen some that have gone 400k....yeah.....they are junk allright......

[Exitspeed]

Wow....that is kind of funy, because it was a normal thing to see those engines hit 200,000k or more. I even seen some that have gone 400k....yeah.....they are junk allright......

ANY engine can get 400k. How many times did it need repair in that time frame?

[Waver]

it didnt other than the intake manni, but that was one of the few things common with them, and a lot of that is because of the dexcool....the rest was simple maintance on the vehicle...you cant say that an engine that has been around for years is crap because you know of someone who might not of taken care of their car, checked the oil or what not had issues with it. The 3800 is one of the best engines that gm has ever made, along with the "iron duke", the 2.0 (even thought they were known for headgaskets, they still lasted a long time) the 305, the 350....

[Plum Crazy]

my 1996 regal went thru 2 sets of coil packs, 4 waterpumps, and a few dozen sets of spark plugs, but i sold it with 285k on it. (still running)

[floaters]

well my old mans series 2 3800 has 191k on it and all its ever needed was a water pump (last 3000miles) and intake gaskets. it gets 30mpg and runs flawlessly.
+1 for an engine right up there with the ls based engines.

[Exitspeed]

it didnt other than the intake manni, but that was one of the few things common with them, and a lot of that is because of the dexcool....the rest was simple maintance on the vehicle...you cant say that an engine that has been around for years is crap because you know of someone who might not of taken care of their car, checked the oil or what not had issues with it. The 3800 is one of the best engines that gm has ever made, along with the "iron duke", the 2.0 (even thought they were known for headgaskets, they still lasted a long time) the 305, the 350....

So I can't form an opinion based off of personal experience, and research like this recall? That's odd...

And just because something has been around a long time doesn't make it automatically good. I'm a huge GM advocate, but that engine was used in tons of GM's shitty cars over the last 20 years. They FINALLY done using it because they realize that it's not competitive any longer with other V6's on the market that others have been using for 10 years.

I'll give you that with proper maintenance they can be dependable (same as any other engine) but compared to it's competitors it's a dinosaur, and they should have stopped using it 10 years ago. The DI V6 LLT engine they are using in the CTS is where they should have been 10 years ago.

[BAD LS1]

This is not new.... And that thing was on wards 10 best engines a few times.

[Exitspeed]

This is not new.... And that thing was on wards 10 best engines a few times.

Your right. They've been investigating this since 2007.

And you are right that it's been on Wards 10 Best Engines...TWELVE years ago. Like I said, they should have scrapped this engine 10 years ago.

[Yooformula]

So I can't form an opinion based off of personal experience, and research like this recall? That's odd...


So THEY all cant form opinions based off of THEIR personal experiences and research as well? hmm seems odd to me....

[Waver]

personal experience.......I worked on them, a lot.....and apart from the intake manni and a few belts and hoses, there wasnt much wrong with them unless they had a shit ton of miles on them

[Nix]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=527778#post527778

You're kidding right? I have had a shit ton of GMs with the 3800 in them and never once have I had an issue. That motor in my opnion from my luck and what Ive seen is pretty much bullet proof if well maintained and cared for.

[BAD LS1]

Your right. They've been investigating this since 2007.

And you are right that it's been on Wards 10 Best Engines...TWELVE years ago. Like I said, they should have scrapped this engine 10 years ago.

Yes its antiquated technology but it was an adequate engine. I worked on a L67 in Joes GTP that im really surprised it too didnt burn up, the exhaust manifolds where caked with oil residue and it smoked and stunk to high hell. I essentially replaced every gasket on it except for the heads, front and rear seals and timing chain cover which werent leaking.

The new LLT motor is bad ass, but that high feature mill comes with high cost too as opposed to the venerable Series II and III it replaces.

Look at the boat anchor 3.5L GM still uses though in mid size vehicles, that started life as the MPI 2.8 back in the late 80's. Now it morphed into large displacement intake gasket eater and head gasket leaker. That engine is worse off than 3800.

GM does pushrod motors best... cammer engines... not so much untill the 3.6 came along in the CTS. That took Opel to help design that one though IIRC. The Quad 4 was great little power house for what it was if you could keep head gaskets in it, that 3.4L DOHC was a turd and problematic, the Quad OHC was a real head splitter, even the 2.0L SOHC used in turbo sunbirds and the 1.8 n/a version were kinda poopy.

[Exitspeed]

So THEY all cant form opinions based off of THEIR personal experiences and research as well? hmm seems odd to me....

They certainly can. I just said I think the engine is pile and it's ancient technology that should have been replaced a decade ago and I'm told I'm "wrong!".


Yes its antiquated technology but it was an adequate engine.

Was is the key word. Honestly this is one of the reasons GM is int he shape it's in. Fortunately they've seemed to realize they can't rely on shitty old engineering and have made huge strides over the last 3-4 years. The DI V6 is the perfect example. Unfortunately it could be too late.

[Karps TA]

What's so shitty about having an engine that was for the most part pretty reliable, passed emissions, gave plenty of power, got very good mileage, and was cheap to produce?

I'd buy a car with a 3800 in it any day. I've never had a problem with one. Then again I've had a bunch of 3.1's without any real issues as well.

[Exitspeed]

What's so shitty about having an engine that was for the most part pretty reliable, passed emissions, gave plenty of power, got very good mileage, and was cheap to produce?

I'd buy a car with a 3800 in it any day. I've never had a problem with one. Then again I've had a bunch of 3.1's without any real issues as well.

So then what makes an engine shitty? In your guys view it seems that every engine on the planet should be considered reliable. The thing is being recalled for starting itself on fire. lol.

[Prince Valiant]

So I can't form an opinion based off of personal experience, and research like this recall? That's odd...A recall isn't defined as "research" :rolleyes:

Furthermore, while you might have an "opinion" about the 3.8, it's wrong. Your "taste" or "preferences" might dictate that you're not a fan of the 3.8, true and fine...but your "opinion" is quite misinformed and as a result, wrong.

By what standard are you seeking to define as "average", or "exceptional" in terms of engines? Really would be interesting to see where the 3.8 falls short so as to be called a "pile."

I won't say that the 3.8 is the greatest thing since sliced bread...but it's stupid to say it's a pile. The 3.8 a decent engine. Reliable, w/ reasonable torque, decent power, and economical. What's bad about that?

[Cryptic]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...


dumbest post of the year :durr

I got a letter in the mail about a year ago. You just take it to the dealer and they fixed the issue. Big deal.


So then what makes an engine shitty? In your guys view it seems that every engine on the planet should be considered reliable. The thing is being recalled for starting itself on fire. lol.

It's from potential oil leaking onto the exhaust manifold. Typically when the car gets over 150K miles and has had better days.

[Prince Valiant]

So then what makes an engine shitty? In your guys view it seems that every engine on the planet should be considered reliable. The thing is being recalled for starting itself on fire. lol. Unsurprisingly, reading comprehension is not your forte:



General Motors Corp. is recalling 1.5 million vehicles because of potential engine fires.

GM says there have been no reports of any fires or injuries.

Some of the recalled vehicles are no longer in production. The recall includes the 1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue, the 1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1997-2003 Buick Regal, and the 1998-2003 Chevrolet Lumina, Monte Carlo and Impala.

It involves vehicles with a 3.8-liter V6 engine. The government says drops of oil could fall into the exhaust system and cause a fire in the engine.

GM spokesman Kerry Christopher says it was a precautionary measure for consumers.

At some point even the retards figure out they're stupid :rolf

[Exitspeed]

You guys are great. I love this forum.

Yes I can't stand the 3800 series engine. I can't stand most of the cars it was put in and I can't stand most of the cars that GM, Ford, and Chrysler has made in the last 20 years. THEY ARE PILES. It's why I buy used Japanese cars.

I have no problem saying that my OPINION is based off of my dislike of these PILES. lol

This is so fun. I love the hypocrisy on here.

[Prince Valiant]

So, when you can't you either reason or logic, facts, or heck...even humor to prove a point, you try to paint yourself as some heroic loner (re: loser) standing against the tide of "group think" that ostensibly permeates this forum.

Let's see, by my count it's BCM: 597, Exitspeed: 0

Fuck, I'm predicting you're the next member to start a thread asking "Guy's, what's a camshaft?"

[Exitspeed]

So, when you can't you either reason or logic, facts, or heck...even humor to prove a point, you try to paint yourself as some heroic loner (re: loser) standing against the tide of "group think" that ostensibly permeates this forum.

Let's see, by my count it's BCM: 597, Exitspeed: 0

Fuck, I'm predicting you're the next member to start a thread asking "Guy's, what's a camshaft?"

I'm glad you know me so well. lol. There's people that know me on here. Ask Jer. He knows me really well. I doubt he'd have anything ill to say about me or my car knowledge. He knows me well enough to tell that I'm getting a kick out of pushing this forums buttons.

I like getting a rise out of you guys on here. It's SOOO easy. So for providing me this great free entertainment BCM 597, Exitspeed doesn't need to compare penis sizes.

[Voodoo Chick]

Well.........as mentioned earlier, this risk is a potential risk for when the engine is already getting run down....I think ANY engine, given a lot of hard use, and maybe not the most vigilant care can have all sorts of potential risks....fires, etc.....To Exitspeed, I don't know you, but the very limited contact I have had with you, it seems mostly that you are kidding around and people take you a little too seriously, and then they get mad, but you seem like a nice person. Just opinionated, lol! :)

[TheRX7Project]

Where can I get cams for my rotary? ;)

[Voodoo Chick]

Where can I get cams for my rotary? ;)


"Cams 'R' Us" !!!! :rolf

[Exitspeed]

Where can I get cams for my rotary? ;)

If you find out let me know where I can get some pistons. :goof

[Plum Crazy]

Where can I get cams for my rotary? ;)


you have to get those overnighted from japan, but be careful, they may cause danger to the manifold.

[Irish]

Fuck, I'm predicting you're the next member to start a thread asking "Guy's, what's a camshaft?"

I don't give a shit who you are, that's funny shit right there!
:thumbsup :rolf

[pOrk]

The 2004 Grand prix's still use the 3.8, yet arent being recalled? what gives?

[T-Bag]

Lol this thread worked well.

Yes the 3800 was outdated...but it was extremely reliable and economical (well at least on the freeway) therefore not really a pile in any way shape or form.

[pOrk]

My last grand prix made it 240000 miles and all I replaced was the fuel, oil, cv's, and transmission once.

[domokun]

Exitspeed, your a tool!

3800 is a VERY reliable engine. I know a lot of 500hp with no issues some in the 600-700 on a stock block. as for non-modded they are great ( decent gas mileage, spunky ( look at the s/c'd 3800 )

the only that is causing the recall is the valve cover gaskets! THATS IT!!. granted it sucks...but a easy fix none-the-less.

[Exitspeed]

Ok back to the fun.


Lol this thread worked well.

Yes the 3800 was outdated...but it was extremely reliable and economical (well at least on the freeway) therefore not really a pile in any way shape or form.



My last grand prix made it 240000 miles and all I replaced was the fuel, oil, cv's, and transmission once.

Tranny is a pretty major thing. Not to someone who works on cars, but to the every day person it is.


Exitspeed, your a tool!

3800 is a VERY reliable engine. I know a lot of 500hp with no issues some in the 600-700 on a stock block. as for non-modded they are great ( decent gas mileage, spunky ( look at the s/c'd 3800 )

the only that is causing the recall is the valve cover gaskets! THATS IT!!. granted it sucks...but a easy fix none-the-less.

Tool? Is this 2002?

A friend of mine just stopped over and said he had a Grand Prix. It took a shit after he had it for 2000 miles. He said it was a total pile.

He also said another member on here that you guys know that mods Grand Prix's even thinks that the engines are piles.



I have a question...how many of you have 3800 series engines in your daily drivers or second cars? Just curious...

[Nix]

My everyday car is a 2002 GTP with 95K on it.

Why do you ask?

[domokun]

Exitspeed, I advise you exit this thread. thats my best advise for you.....

you already dug a hole...mind as well crawl out now before you dig to deep

yes the 3800 is older technology....but it still works, and hardly fails

let me guess rotarys are great right? :rolf:punch:


I had a couple 3800's from GN, to GP's and regal and never had problems.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Wrong! One of their best....get informed please:rolleyes:

Yep. I agree

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Wow....that is kind of funy, because it was a normal thing to see those engines hit 200,000k or more. I even seen some that have gone 400k....yeah.....they are junk allright......

At emissions, regularly saw over 300k, saw 1 pass with over 500k.if you wanted them to padd the IM240, just roughhouse them and 90% of the time even old beat to shit ones would fastpass...

just saying over 5 years I saw 1000s of 3.8L cars and most all passed. If OBDII would fail, it was for some bullshit code.

[BAD LS1]

2004's are series III's , i think they fixed the leaky valve covers by then.

[domokun]

come on guys.... exitspeed knows all about the "pile" engine. remember?

this is why he only buys foreign. :durr

[domokun]

2004's are series III's , i think they fixed the leaky valve covers by then.

that is correct. the 2004+ didnt have as deep of a gasket valley in the plastic valve cover mold. so therefore the gasket would be pressed more, whereas the old ones the gasket would shrink over time, so with such a deep valley, the gasket wouldnt be compressed as much and drip.

[88Nightmare]

foreign cars aren't always the best route to go either. Hondas/Acuras are pretty reliable, Toyotas...... not goin down that road. An engine is only as reliable as the upkeep on it. I have a 1987 Blazer with a 2.8L V6. NO FUCKIN POWER at all, but that thing fires right up no problems

[BeesTwinEG]

3800 is probably most reliable engine gm ever made in my personal opinion.
far as 3100 and 3400 piece of sh!T. :goof

[Exitspeed]

Exitspeed, I advise you exit this thread. thats my best advise for you.....

you already dug a hole...mind as well crawl out now before you dig to deep

yes the 3800 is older technology....but it still works, and hardly fails

let me guess rotarys are great right? :rolf:punch:


I had a couple 3800's from GN, to GP's and regal and never had problems.

I don't understand why I can't think an engine is a pile because it's old technology that Gm should have dropped 10 years ago and have had personal bad experience with them?


come on guys.... exitspeed knows all about the "pile" engine. remember?

this is why he only buys foreign. :durr

So I have to be the foremost expert on 3800's to not care for them?

More great stuff here. Keep it comin guys.


And no...rotory's suck too. lol. I'd rather have a lsx swap then a rotory.

I love how you guys keep making assumptions about me.

[88Nightmare]

settle down mel lol

[domokun]

why should you drop a engine that works well? you have the manufacturing down, fits in most of your vehicles, cheap to make and saves them money on warranty work cause they DONT FAIL!!! ( in major ways ) yes they have a recall for a 12 dollar part and takes about 1-2 hrs of a techs labor.

makes sense to me on why they didn't drop it.

now the Quad 4 on the other hand..... HA!

[Exitspeed]

settle down mel lol

I know. But it's so funny.


why should you drop a engine that works well? you have the manufacturing down, fits in most of your vehicles, cheap to make and saves them money on warranty work cause they DONT FAIL!!! ( in major ways ) yes they have a recall for a 12 dollar part and takes about 1-2 hrs of a techs labor.

makes sense to me on why they didn't drop it.

now the Quad 4 on the other hand..... HA!

It WORKED well. It's been outdated for too long. It doesn't compete with Nissan's VQ, or Honda's J engines, etc as far as dependability, MPG, etc. I'm not bashing GM. I f*ckin love GM now. I hope they make it through the this tough time. Since now they actually have engines that are more competitive.

I'm not telling you guys are wrong. You can think the 3800 is he best thing since sliced bread. I just think it's a pile. You can think my Camry is a pile. You can think my 240's are piles (they kinda are. lol). Difference between you guys and me is I don't give a f*ck what you think. I'm not driving your pile and your not driving mine. Doesn't mean I can't express my opinion about the damn things.

[domokun]

alright, Ill respect your opinion I guess. Only this one time though! :banana1:

[pOrk]

A tranny at 240,000 miles is more then its fair life span imo.

I have had several 3800 cars, 2 older body style Grand Prix's, 2 last body style Impalas, and my current 2004 GTP. All of which have served me MANY miles of maintenance free driving. If your buddy's car really did fail at 2,000 miles, warranty would have covered it and it was one in a million because everyone in my family drives 3800 cars with very few issues.

[Exitspeed]

alright, Ill respect your opinion I guess. Only this one time though! :banana1:

Seriously, it's no more complicated then that. :headbang

[domokun]

I still standby the 3800 though :-p

[Exitspeed]

That's fine. I'll still stand behind most of GM and Ford's current line-up too.

[RanJer]

Just read this start to end. Mel, you need a job. lol

[Exitspeed]

Just read this start to end. Mel, you need a job. lol

Yeah I do. I havan't had this much time on my hands since I've been laid off. lol.

When you coming over to shoot pool? :thumbsup

[RanJer]

Yeah I do. I havan't had this much time on my hands since I've been laid off. lol.

When you coming over to shoot pool? :thumbsup

Tonight after I go get wings?? lol

It's your house, I don't show up uninvited... Well... If I drive past and see a bonfire, I'm stopping.. regardless of if you invite me :goof

[Al]

Maybe this explains why my Oldsmobile smokes every once in a while.

[Exitspeed]

Tonight after I go get wings?? lol

It's your house, I don't show up uninvited... Well... If I drive past and see a bonfire, I'm stopping.. regardless of if you invite me :goof

Damn wings sound good. I'm on a half ass diet though. Cause I'm getting fat.

You gonna bring beer? What time you thinking?

[URLOZIN]

I have owned a 1998 grand prix gt, and 96, 98, and 00 v6 camaros. Never needed anything but oil changes, batteries etc. One had 160k when I sld it one 126k, and current one has 127k. 200hp and 30 mpg and no major problems. 3800 FTW. I've known people to get well over 250k miles with no major problems.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Apparently, cause its old it must suck, lame ass criteria at best

[PB86MCSS]

Another lesson that people should think before opening their mouths. As 99% of people have stated though, the 3800 is about as effing dependable as you will find, GM, domestic or whatever. I like mine quite a bit and the motor won't be what ends the cars life, I expect that to be an accident or rust...or if the trans goes and I don't feel like getting it repaired.

[michelle]

Woah, what happened to my thread!

[88Nightmare]

we BCM'd it

[BadAzzGTA89]

I have owned a a bunch of 3800 powered cars with no problems ever!
And my daily is a 01 GS s/c and never once had any trouble with it and i lay on it hard from time to time!
But opinions are like a-holes every body has one:)

[CannotPost]

Woah, what happened to my thread!

It was Pwned by some 3800 love! :rolf :goof :banana1:

[Irish]

The worst thing to happen to the 3800 was TEAM3800

[95mustang302]

98 gtp here with 140+k and only thing it has needed was intake gaskets...

[Daytonapacecar959]

It was Pwned by some 3800 love! :rolf :goof :banana1:

Some 3800 lovin here.No major problems with mine,puts down 421 WHP(don't know what crank HP would be)stock block,runs mid 11's.

Matt at ZZP runs his twin turboed 8 sec. Grand Prix with stock L36 bottom end.

[BadAzzGTA89]

Some 3800 lovin here.No major problems with mine,puts down 421 WHP(don't know what crank HP would be)stock block,runs mid 11's.

Matt at ZZP runs his twin turboed 8 sec. Grand Prix with stock L36 bottom end.

Was waiting for you to chime in:thumbsup

[nitrous]

Same here. Dynoed 547WHP on a conservative tune 2 summers ago. Stock L67 bottom end.

As far as GM stating no engine fires have occurred, that is because they will not admit to them and insurance adjusters should rarely get into detail with this kind of stuff. In fact, I am in the middle of a pending lawsuit with GM for an engine fire in March of 2005. Was brushed off to be a "wiring harness" failure. :rolleyes:

I can site 4 or 5 other engine fires from forum members. I will say that this "fix" will not fix the rare engine fire problem. After time the lower injector o-ring becomes worn and leaks fuel onto the head and down onto the manifold.

My wife drives a '99 GTP with 111k on it. Shifts better than most aftermarket trans. Only things I've replaced are an O2 sensor and plugs/wires and other normal maintenance items. Actually the cat just went out. Runs low low 14s at 98+. 100% stock. Not bad for ancient technology.

I'd like to see another stock bottom end engine that can push 1000+HP on an engine from a 100k mile junk yard car.

[Yeehaw]

600-1186 is the napa balkamp intake manifold for the 3.8 i keep about 6 in stock at time....and i sell a lot of them personally think these motors arent bad but i would never own one

[CannotPost]

Same here. Dynoed 547WHP on a conservative tune 2 summers ago. Stock L67 bottom end.


What mods did you have for that #. Being a former GTP owner myself I am intrested in your combo.

[nitrous]

Stattama turbo kit with cam and heads.

[A B4C Z]

Those engines are piles. lol. No surprise here. Speaking of recalls...

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=527778#post527778

Wow you must not know a Phuking thing about cars do you. There is a reason it was used for more than 10 years and in all GMs lines! You obviously had a problem with one once and couldnt fix it so your now mad at life about them.

[Exitspeed]

Wow you must not know a Phuking thing about cars do you. There is a reason it was used for more than 10 years and in all GMs lines! You obviously had a problem with one once and couldnt fix it so your now mad at life about them.

It's cause I don't know a phucking thing about cars. I shoulda just came out and said that, huh?

And welcome to 2 days ago.