I think I found what the Vette needs.... [Archive]

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 12:15 AM

What Joe says is correct. While it may be alright and do just fine, it will be at a lower power lever. He's just trying to get you to be a little more cautious. While A&A might have done it, and QMP might have done it, pushing a stock shortblock is just a timebomb. Tuning is the absolute key. Boost is addictive and you'll just want to keep upping it :)

I say go for it. Would be cool to see around here.

Although, you'd be spending alot of money for a power level that is being reached with some head/cam/intake combos out now that are at about half the turbo kit. Just wouldn't have the WOW factor :)

JC70SS

03-10-2004, 01:29 PM

right on, chris. 480-500rwhp has been achieved n/a already with stock cubes by futral motorsports. So why waste all of the money on a turbo? If you want to get max results out of the turbo and crank the boost up, YOU MUST FORGE. End of story. Start reading the boost forums on ls1.co and ls1tech.com.

BAD LS1

03-10-2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by scubastang
I hope your saying this with sarcasm right? :confused

We dont want to even start on this topic with me!!!

I can't stress enough the importance of a proper tune and engine vitals monitoring like a hawk. If you want to actually make the most from your massive $$$ you just spent, you need the above!!

Otherwise you wont make that engine last anywhere as long as it should and youll be stuck spending another massive amount of $$$ to rebuild it with better parts.

Another good reason is, would you want to deal with the embarassment of getting severely OW3eD by mildly warmed over LS1 F-bodies??

My guess is...proabably not....

Tommy

number1

03-10-2004, 01:58 PM

You want to upgrade to a blue filter? :durr

GRNDNL

03-10-2004, 03:11 PM

Shhhh, Tom/Chris be quite........;)

Jeff, you just have to screw that thing on, I think it says on the box that its pre-tuned, so your all set. Might as well get the 25psi pulleys while your at it, more is always better....right! After its on let me know when your going to track, I'll bring the camera, kitty litter and a broom....:durr

I agree with Poster boy and Sneaker boy, 480-500hp forced induction sounds weak to me but what do I know, I race a V6....:cool2:

Now where do I get one of those Blue Filters?

JC70SS

03-10-2004, 03:17 PM

Hey keith do you know a woman named Julie that lives out near you. She had a 2 tone GN that she sold and the still have 2 black GN's. Her husband just sold a 69 camaro I believe with maybe a 540 in it with a chameleon paint job??

BAD LS1

03-10-2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by JC00SS
Hey keith do you know a woman named Julie that lives out near you. She had a 2 tone GN that she sold and the still have 2 black GN's. Her husband just sold a 69 camaro I believe with maybe a 540 in it with a chameleon paint job??

BAHAHAHAHHAAHAH Your reffering to Mr. Jim Schmitinger's wife there!!!

Oh i know him well....

JC70SS

03-10-2004, 03:51 PM

That could be Tom. She works at Cedar Creek. I heard that guy is a real piece of work. I think she knows who you are.

BAD LS1

03-10-2004, 04:35 PM

Yeah she works at CCM, has a Yellow base model, sport appearance 02'Cavalier with Magnetic red stripes courtesy of Crystal auto body and tinted windows.

Yeah this guys has got more money than brains, i feel sorry for the wife, Really nice woman, bad teeth... always brings a hotty along that works at CCM to the waynes show every thursday, im sure she knows my car, maybe me...

Yeah he had the black and silver T-Type that was in GM Hightech, it was the only 9 sec, high 13 sec T around!!!! He tried building a real 9 sec T and had a detwieler built engine "supposedly",36Lbs, no tuning nessecery chip, pump gas, you know the usual stuff that doesnt play well together....and went high 12's....

Now has an imaculate 16K mile Turbo T/A that huge Hurr dryer was bolted on with no tune, in an attempt to blow it up, it of coarse went slower than stock.

SMS 1

03-10-2004, 05:16 PM

OK I know I am off topic here but Tom do you mean the guy that was always walkin around saying "well hell the damn thing has $10, 000 worth of just brakes on it of course its fast:durr " ?Maybe that was someone else. What car do you take up to Wayne's? They moved all of the 80's and newer to tuesdays but I don't remember seeing you there on thursdays before that? When does that start again?

OK back to the topic at hand. Jeff, I think you should just get out the big'ol shoe horn and pop in a tunnel ram 502?! I don't know if that is possible in the C5 platform but I saw a GM special project "ZR2" at the Corvette museum in KY that had a 454 in it! Bitchin:shades

GRNDNL

03-10-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by JC00SS
Hey keith do you know a woman named Julie that lives out near you. She had a 2 tone GN that she sold and the still have 2 black GN's. Her husband just sold a 69 camaro I believe with maybe a 540 in it with a chameleon paint job??

I've never met her, heard she's a nice lady. No comment on Jim, Tom covered it, if you really want to know shoot me a PM.....

BAD LS1

03-10-2004, 05:45 PM

I Did go the Tues ones often till late in the season when the GF went back to school and those were the only night i could see her.

The thursday ones i went to regardless and usually parked my car in the back where all the late model stuff was forced to go...

There was only a few i missed... I usually came with the same crowd, black pro street 79' Malibu (502), red 86 Mustang (347), black 90' caprice with tunnel ram sticking out of hood( 500hp 406)
and a flat black 40' ford pickup (383).

As for Jim, i get along with the guy but hell start laying into my car talking down to me from time to time but it just goes in one ear out the other....

Everyone knows him somehow someway, but yeah bragging about how much something costs over what numbers it runs sounds like something he would say....

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 07:06 PM

Hey Keith, remember, I'm not sneaker boy anymore. I'm still slow of course :)

Chris

GRNDNL

03-10-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by z28kid98
Hey Keith, remember, I'm not sneaker boy anymore. I'm still slow of course :)

Chris

OK sneaker boy, drive the thing up here tonight and show me.......

Trying to stay on topic, twin turbo the vette or stay NA........:3gears:

Neal Steffek

03-10-2004, 08:24 PM

Funny we are telling a guy about tuning, less then a year after he takes a mild modded GTP to 12.4:rolleyes:

Prince Valiant

03-10-2004, 08:35 PM

You see jeff...the reason tunning when boosting is important is...j/k :goof

Brian98GTP

03-10-2004, 08:45 PM

My thoughts exactly Neal....
Even though 12.4's on this forum might not seem SUPER FAST, it DEFINATELY is for a GTP that has a race weight of 3600+lbs, and has the Stock cam, Stock blower, Stock heads, Stock gears, etc...

If he doesnt know anything about tuning, we'll find out this summer when it grenades... I dont think he's stupid enough to just crank up the boost, and expect it to go faster with every added Psi...:rolleyes:

I dont think this Kit is definately going on his C5, but it sure is a possibility....I hope he does it.. :thumbsup

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 09:03 PM

hahaha, it'll be here soon, but then right to the chassis shop :)

No offense Neal, and i'm not taking a shot at you, but that doesn't mean anything. It's cool that he got his car to run what it did. But it's a completely different animal. A completely different tuning program that has just as great of a learning curve, if not more seeing as the motor was not originally intended to be a forced induction setup. How long did it take him to get the car there? Is there a tuning software for GTP's?

It's just recommendations that tuning plays a very important part. We all know that. It's assumed that he'll know that. If he wants to do it, it'll be kick ass to see a turbo'd vette running around here. let's just see what he wants out of the car. Does he want something different that's got some good street cred. in terms of HP. Or does he want something that will kick the asses of all challengers.

Now go on and ask the questions that really matter for that kit...

Ok, so 500hp on a stock motor. WELL, can it be pushed further even? F-body and Y-body platforms leave NO room for things that weren't there in the first place. How much boost can taht system handle before the turbo becomes inefficient? Like the Turbo Tech kit for ls1 cars, it can put out 450-475 out of the T-60 kit on a stock motor let's say. let's toss on the t-76 kit and you'll be at like 480rwhp. You have to purchase the upgraded 3" downpipe instead of the 2 1/2" that's included in the kit. The crossover in the kit is like 2 1/4" and most people have a custom 2 1/2" made then too. Is it custom welded up headers, or is it a modified stock exhaust manifold like the turbo tech kits? Hell, you could have a kit that has been designed for a stock motor application, but when you put it on some bigger cubic inch motor, or a head/cam car that is looking for more air, and looking to get rid of that air as well, will that system be efficient still?

Again, not just a bolt on and go with it. That's all us LS1 folk are trying to say since we've all read the posts on the other forums, we've all seen the disappointment in dyno numbers, and we've all seen the problems arise that were never thought of at the beginning. Forget the fact that an upgraded clutch is needed if stick, and if auto, that stock trans won't last long, and then you might want to think of a converter at the same time to match up with that system.

GO FOR IT!!!

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 09:05 PM

nobody can tell that this system is a PROCHARGER?

Its only running like 7 PSI intercooled, not 14 like a Turbo.

No software for tuning, just a scan tool and the right changes....

boy o boy
JEFF

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 09:10 PM

Didn't look at the pics. Just assumed it was a custom turbo kit from the vendor you specified. Otherwise it's just another s/c kit that would be from that specified vendor(Vortech, Magnuson, ATI, Whipple, etc...) Dont' have to go all the way to Cali for that.

Forget all turbo talk then :) A turbo vette would still be cooler:banana

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 09:11 PM

No software for tuning? A scan tool like Autotap that doesn't have the ability to make changes. Please don't tell me that you are gonna do all that and NOT use LS1-edit to tune it. Or are you saying that you are gonna have them tune it and just leave it at that?

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 09:12 PM

no the tuning comment was about the GTP,

yes I will just LS1Edit

JEFF

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 09:16 PM

Got ya....

What year is the vette? '97-'98?

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 09:19 PM

99 A4

Tranny will be fine, I have an uncle in the business and might be doing a little tranny business in the near future;)

I dont understand how anyone would think someone would spend this kind of money and just slap something on and go, without tuning. I'm really debating over H/C or SC, only major problem with SC setup is alot more $$$ compared to H/C thats why i lean back and forth so much. Guess ill just wait a few months and then buy one of the two. AND YES IT WILL BE CONSISANTLY TUNED:D

JEFF

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 09:41 PM

There ARE those people out there. Read those other message boards and you'll see it all day long.

As for the debate, and although I did bring it up, for a street car, I like the blower setup. And this is if you have enough money to do either. Why? Well, all the head/cam combos that are up in that area are pretty stout cams. You may not like the driveability of such a huge cam. I know I can take it :) But I think in a vette, with a more refined feel to it, a s/c is a better idea. ALTHOUGH, like i mentioned before, you could do a big cube stroker motor with a cam that although looks big on paper, it isn't too bad with the added displacement.

Chris

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 09:50 PM

The vette will not be a daily driver, more of a half week, nice days car. I ahve the winter car that ill be rebuilding the motor in spring to stop the burning oil :)
I do not mind a lopey cam, "Thats Stock sound" Right Tom:D I cant wait to hear your car. If I HAD/HAVE the money thats what it will come down to a large cam and heads or SC. leaning more towards the H/C cause of the price alone. ITs a big difference.

JEFF

GRNDNL

03-10-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by 2FSTGTP
nobody can tell that this system is a PROCHARGER?

Its only running like 7 PSI intercooled, not 14 like a Turbo.

No software for tuning, just a scan tool and the right changes....

boy o boy
JEFF

I caught it Jeff, I just don't like trying to twist the front of the crank off with that dam belt. With a good carefull tune up I think you can make 600+ hp with a Turbo/s on a stock block and mild set of heads. Like I said before, I'd play NA till the $$$$ is there for the plumbing and the "device".

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 10:33 PM

they pin the Crank.

That seems to be the way im going, SC setup is very nice, BUT its very expensive.

JEFF

GRNDNL

03-10-2004, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by 2FSTGTP
they pin the Crank.

That seems to be the way im going, SC setup is very nice, BUT its very expensive.

JEFF

Your still twisting the crank and putting a ton of preload on the mains depending on how tight you have to run the belt, they are hard on parts.

I might be alittle biased......;) Ahh, what do I know, I race a V6...:durr

SLOWC5

03-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Ahh, what do I know, I race a V6...

:D I'd take your Little ole' 6 :D

JEFF

Crawlin

03-10-2004, 10:50 PM

And anywhere north of about 625-650hp you start maxxing out the MAF and have to get funky with the values in some of the tables in LS1edit. There is no aftermarket MAF sensor like the mustangs have (Pro-M) but that company will sell a maf and converter box that helps in the whole process, but it is outrageous price. Then all you'd have to worry about is shredding belts

Chris

Neal Steffek

03-11-2004, 12:31 AM

I can't believe there is still any debate about tuning.

There is little after market suport for the GTP's. Yes, it is growing with companys like Intense, ZZP, Thrasher, and 3800performance, but nothing like for the vett's and LS1s.

you guys are acting like it is impossable to do anything to a LS1. :rolleyes:

By the way, between Jeff, Brent, and myself (the 3 around here who can custome tune a GTP on the fly) we have never blown a L67. Now a diff on the other hand, that is a different story.:goof

scubastang

03-11-2004, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by BADDLS1SS
We dont want to even start on this topic with me!!!

I can't stress enough the importance of a proper tune and engine vitals monitoring like a hawk. If you want to actually make the most from your massive $$$ you just spent, you need the above!!

Otherwise you wont make that engine last anywhere as long as it should and youll be stuck spending another massive amount of $$$ to rebuild it with better parts.

Another good reason is, would you want to deal with the embarassment of getting severely OW3eD by mildly warmed over LS1 F-bodies??

My guess is...proabably not....

Tommy

Ohh I agree 100% tuning is very important, especially at threshold levels and on boosted applications. I was just scoffing at the idea that you need "forged" internals when you put a turbo/supercharger on. Granted I don't know too much about the Cheby's, but boosted is boosted.

People are always saying, get a forged long block and H/C/I before you boost, and many say you "need" it. This is complete bullshit, as for example there is tons of turbo'd stangs running 400-500 rwhp on stock long blocks (even intakes!). A ls1 should be able to push more than that because they don't have to worry the good old block splitting (look at the 750+rwhp Trans am with a single oncenter 4 bolt T series turbocharger!). Obviously its personal choice, but I would choose to simply boost first and keep the psi down and "safely" test the stock longblock and then eventually add H/C/I and forged guts. OF course you need to add the appropiate fuel and tuning, but trust me, a boosted app is much more fun than a H/C/I car is IMO and can pump out much more power and be way more streetable.

Chris, I am curious, considering I thing LS1s have MAFs correct, why couldn't you use a Pro-M blow through Universal meter on a ls1 charged app? :confused

Crawlin

03-11-2004, 08:33 AM

Because the stock LS1 maf starts to top out(in terms of air flow being metered) at what would be around 650hp. It use to be a huge problem and seeing not many forced induction cars were up there, wasn't any support from aftermarket companies for it. Then MAF just couldn't read anymore air being pushed through it and obviously that is a bad thing. Well, there are three choices, go with an aftermarket engine management system like FAST/DFI. But that is hella dollars. Second choice is to go with the Pro-M Universal convertered to use for a GM computer but I think there is also a need for a converter box. Forgot exactly the item needed, but this is second most expensive. Third is to use the stock GM MAF and then get funky with the LS1-edit values in certain tables.

That last option is how they got that Formula to reach those power goals. Now, one more thing to think about. There are some serious turbo gurus raising the BS flag to that car. And some of them were the "firsts" of turbo ls1's. Modified a Incon kit to go 10.00 @ 142mph in a 6speed trans am. So I dont believe EVERYTHING I hear on the internet. Especially when that guy's Z that was supposed to be 700+rwhp and went 9's only put out like 575hp and maybe a bit more right after he sold it. The car was identical from those 700+ dyno runs to after it was sold.

The reason I asked about the year of the vette was that the '97-'98 MAF's top out at an even earlier air flow rate which would in turn be a lesser HP value.

We aren't acting like it's impossible to do things with an LS1. **** just look at what HAS been done:

Stock Internal Motor but bolt ons record is 11.27 @120mph

That's a completely STOCK MOTOR

Stock shortblock but head/cam record is like 10.60 @ 126mph

Stock shortblock but head/cam with power adder is 9.80's, maybe even faster, and that was with a TURBO, not nitrous like most guys have used to get that fast.

Fastest LS1 period is Ronnie Duke at an 8.52 in a supercharged application.

That's only after 6 years in the market. LT1's JUST hit a 8.90's this year and they've been around for over 10. It's a great motor and anything can be done with it given the right amount of help/funds/knowledge.

We all know Jeff has a fast car. And I'm sure it took a ton of the above to get it where it is. We "Ls1 guys" that have seen and read it all just want to make sure that he's not blinded by the vendors advertisement of what it can do(Like what happened with the QMP Formula that is being talked about on the board all the time.........

Crawlin

03-11-2004, 08:35 AM

QMP no longer will sell the kit outright. THEY have to install it because it isn't a perfect kit. Everyone that waited a TON of time to get their kit finally, had installation issues. The kits that were ordered but installed at QMP were fine. BECAUSE they could then take the parts that needed tweaking and modify it to fit. And then charge the customer for those installation hours. To me, that isn't cool. So all we are trying to do is let him see all options. Look what happened already, for half the price, he could go the same hp numbers possibly depending on the head/cam choice he went with.

It's all in good fun. No ones flaming anyone or downplaying their abilities. We are just those friends that want him to know all his options.

Chris

BAD LS1

03-11-2004, 09:19 AM

Yeah everyone is just taking this way the wrong way!!!

Its called constructive crtisism:rolleyes:
Meaning you have to be very clear with your exact intentions otherwise imaginations will wander and suggestions will be made.

To each his own, if one wants to spend the big bux on the Procharger, more power to him!!! It would be one of a kinda locally !!!

Or you can do the minimum upgrades and go just as fast, its all in what the owner is after, we are not paying for it after all why should we try and sway decisions??

Which ever route is taken it will certainly earn respect.

:thumbsup

SLOWC5

03-11-2004, 12:40 PM

I probably will just start with a larger cam and head package, w/ headers, and gears. For the money its a better option. IMO SC would be nice but too much coin

JEFF

Brian98GTP

03-11-2004, 12:44 PM

Pu$$y.....:devil

:bling

Valcuda

03-11-2004, 04:45 PM

hey jeff, dads got the money why don't u put on a S/C???????

SLOWC5

03-11-2004, 05:17 PM

hey ricky, I pay for my cars, not my dad. Good point though

JEFF

12secondGTP

03-11-2004, 06:27 PM

Hey Jeff that thing looks awsome I would strap that biatch on right now and while your at it why not add a 200 shot of NOS. What does it matter you have daddys money if you blow it up then he can buy you another one right.:durr Right guys, isn't that how it works just go out and spend gobs of money on mods at the complete wronge time just because they look cool under the hood. There is no need to do any research, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING ON HERE, you know reading up on the corvette forum and talking to guys like you with LS1 experience:durr

scubastang

03-11-2004, 07:55 PM

Chris - thanks for some info. That is definently not cool what QMP does to customers if its true. I agree their #ers are pretty high, but with 116 and high timing and boost (and some prayers) I could see it cranking out that much.

Well considering the capabilites of the stock MAF up to 650, I see that as ok. It sucks there is no univ aftermarket MAF, but IMO if your running above 550rwhp (which many aren't), you need to invest in a aftermarket EEC. They are really coming down in prices these days too. Two months ago I bought a Gen 6 all intact and 3 bar sensors for $650, then sold it as i sold my car :(. I see the gen6's all the time for cheaper.

Plus, once you get a aftermarket MAF, chip and tune, you might as well just pony up the little extra cash for a AEM, SDS or aftermarket EEC. The plug ins like PMS and LS1 edit and tWeecer are just as much too but don't offer the full capabilities. I was messing around with a SDS about a month ago --very easy to use and affordable!

Now PTK just needs to build a LS1 kit...:wow

Syclone0044

03-11-2004, 08:07 PM

I agree with some of the opinions that've already been posted; there's something to be said for the feel of boosted, low end Torque!!!! :headbang Something a N/A car with a big cam has limited amounts of. But no offense to those who run N/A, because there's certainly more than one way to skin a cat and I have had my ass kicked by N/A cars too!! :goof So maybe the solution is to test-ride in a few cars similar to what you're looking at so you can determine which is more appealing to you. That way you don't run the risk of making a bad choice!

Syclone0044

03-11-2004, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by JC00SS
right on, chris. 480-500rwhp has been achieved n/a already with stock cubes by futral motorsports. ... with way less torque, I guarantee!

So why waste all of the money on a turbo? If you want to get max results out of the turbo and crank the boost up, YOU MUST FORGE. End of story. You might want to check out the "Engine break-in" post's link regarding "Cognitive Dissonance"!! Did you know I have over 1000 runs on a completely NON forged stock motor with tiny rods and hypereutectic pistons? I run 23 PSI Boost on pump gas with advanced timing!! Furthermore, I have a friend in Green Bay with the same vehicle but a "FORGED MOTOR" (forged pistons and rods) running only 16 PSI and he blew it up (catastrophic failure), had the shop rebuild it under warranty, and BLEW IT UP AGAIN!!

What is the difference?? I am more careful in my tuning, and my friend was not! He refused to learn from his mistakes and listen to what I said about carefully scanning the engine's parameters and avoiding detonation at all costs.

So while you may adamantly state that "YOU MUST FORGE. End of story.", I feel that there are two sides to every story, that you may want to consider the details of before arriving at a conclusion...

Josh

GRNDNL

03-11-2004, 10:38 PM

A turbo is alot easier on the motor than a supercharger. If I can make 600hp with a rubber crank, stock rods, 4 main caps and only 6 cylinders I would hope a LS1 would live.

I don't know much about programing on a LS1, but the MAF on the LC2 is maxed out at 300hp, at WOT I tune with Fuel pressure and injector pulse width, I'm not sure I would want to depend on a MAF in a boosted app, a hicup could be messy.... :devil

BAD LS1

03-11-2004, 10:45 PM

OK for the record, i have no physical proof that my car produces more torque or less torque than last year... However in my 35 miles of driving with new HUGE cam and mega flow heads it sure didnt seem to loose ANY low end responce or grunt compared to last year with the "baby" 224 cam.

Semi-like torque is not always the answer, granted that yes, the Chevy small block isnt a torque monster in its own right, and yes you do have wind the hell out of a small block with a big cam and heads, BUT these cars are out there running the numbers with small cubes.

I guess if your all about having something that just plain old feels fast down low, then a torque monster is your avenue.

Me i like having something that trys to rip my head off every where in the power band, not just below 4000K...

I want to try and stay open minded about every combination, or ways of "skinning a cat".

Im not gonna sit here and lay out the ways of my personal preffrence to NA at this moment in time, nor do i want to HI JACK this thread more than it has already.

To each his own.

Nuff said!

flame on!:flamet

Crawlin

03-11-2004, 10:52 PM

Yeah, no stress on the crank from the belt drive supercharger. It's always a good thing to not have any stress :)

Anyways, keith, just remember taht the GN was made to fit a turbo. An f-body was not. Just look at the engine compartment of your firehawk and just try to fit the turbo in there with the RIGHT components. It's totally possible with the right amount of time and money to do it. And the 600hp mark has been eclipsed, but it was first done with a custom modified Incon twin turbo kit and the guy is a GM engineer. Like I said, the Turbo Tech kits and slightly modified ones were barely getting to 600hp because of the bottlenecks in the system just trying to get it to fit. Jim down at Speed Inc. has that awesome single turbo LT1 car, and is being switched to a twin turbo. They are also doing a custom turbo on the shop car.

Too many bottlenecks and too little time has passed in the Gen3 history to get them all worked out. Lot different comparing it to a 20 year old GN :)

BAD LS1

03-11-2004, 11:15 PM

Also,

My$.02 on LS1's and MAF's... Under WOT the LS1 uses a power enrichment table based on engine RPM and MAP KPA. Given diff map inputs and diff RPM ranges the engine operates in, it will determine which "cell" to operate in given these factors. From that point the PCM only uses the MAF as a fine tuning device and provides minimal tweeks to the final A/F only if it sways one way or the other too much. Kinda like the range finder game on the Price is Right.

Basically you are running in speed density anyhow At WOT with the bennefit of "fine tuning" and if the MAF simply will not flow enough GMS per SEC it will just run what the given cell tells it to run for mixture.

The maf also just fine tunes normal closed loop driving as well, the LT1's really live off the MAf for most of the time where the LS1 does not however, lots of speed density style imputs, which explains why my car runs fine with the maf diss connected, and only trips a MIL after 3 key starts.

scubastang

03-12-2004, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by GRNDNL
I'm not sure I would want to depend on a MAF in a boosted app, a hicup could be messy.... :devil

There is literally thousands of boosted stangs running a MAF calibrated...as long as it is calibrated correctly, it works great. Obviously the EEC-IV/V are better suited for boosted apps though which helps. They sense and correct for boost without any direct sensor input! They are load based (spark vs. rpm etc) and utilize the actual incoming air (V.E), which generally gives a pretty acurate response...though once you introduce h/c/i with your boosted app you need to readjust your scalar tables (the n/a comp. don't go high enough sometimes).

Thanks BadLSS1 for the info. That is strange how the ls1 MAF works. I understand in theory, but it would seem that it would be ultrasensetive to boost.
:thumbsup

BAD LS1

03-12-2004, 01:53 PM

Well on the LS1's you dont have a way to make it see boost at all, yeah you can install a 2 or 3 bar MAP but the computer is not designed to support those parameters nor can it be added in.

So on boosted applications it will just put out the max 5.0V via the MAP once its into boost and the computer has no idea that its under boost, and the maff is just reading the amount of air moving through it and often times the pressurized air coming in doesnt have any more CFM than NA so it doesnt give false reading either, If it did have way moer CFM moving through it than NA, the PCM will let you know right away with the infamous MIL for MAf malfunction, voltage too high.

Case in point, the LS1 is a differnet animal and just plain old doesnt rely solely on the maf for fuel delivery which makes it very versatile actually with different methods of induction.