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Goat Roper
04-04-2009, 02:50 PM
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/923/10-Cars-That-Sank-Detroit;_ylc=X3oDMTE4aGI2MDhuBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA 2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNzYW5rLWRldHJvaXQ-

The global financial crisis is suffocating the Detroit automakers, but the problems at General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler have been festering for years—even when the mighty "Big Three" were earning billions. Aging factories, inflexible unions, arrogant executives and shoddy quality have all damaged Detroit. Now, with panicky consumers fleeing showrooms, catastrophe looms.

There will be plenty of business-school case studies analyzing all the automakers' wrong turns. But, as they say in the industry, it all comes down to product. So here are 10 cars that help explain the demise of Detroit: GM and Chrysler need a multibillion-dollar government bailout to survive, and both could be in bankruptcy by summer if they don't meet tough government demands. Ford hasn't asked for a bailout—yet—but it's bleeding cash and racing the clock to turn itself around.

Ford Pinto. This ill-fated subcompact came to epitomize the arrogance of Big Auto. Ford hurried the Pinto to market in the early 1970s to battle cheap imports like the Volkswagen Beetle that were selling for less than $2,000. Initial sales were strong, but quality problems emerged. Then came the infamous safety problems with exploding fuel tanks, which Ford refused to acknowledge. Message: The customer comes last. "The problems for the domestics really started in the '70s when they were offering cars like the Pinto up against higher-tech, better-built Toyota Corollas and Honda Civics," says Jack Nerad of Kelley Blue Book.

Chevrolet Cavalier. GM sold millions of Cavaliers in the 1980s—and decided the thrifty car was so successful the company didn't need to update it for more than a decade. To milk the model, GM even added some lipstick and high heels and tried to peddle the upgrade as the Cadillac Cimarron—a legendary flop. Honda and Toyota, meanwhile, were updating their competing models every four or five years, and grabbing market share with each quality improvement. A new Cavalier came out in the mid 1990s—then languished for another decade, while GM put most of its money into big trucks and SUVs. GM has since improved its small cars. "But they have to be miles better than the imports for Americans to forget how bad their small cars used to be," says Jamie Page Deaton of U.S. News's Rankings and Reviews car-ranking site. Even if they are better, many Americans wonder why they should give Detroit a second—or third—chance.

Chevrolet Astro. While Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda were refining their minivans in the 1990s and coming up with innovations like hideaway seats and electric sliding doors, GM was offering an old, truck-based van gussied up with carpeting and cupholders. "It showed GM's repeated failure to market competitive products based on styling and packaging," says Tom Libby of J. D. Power & Associates. The Astro drove like a bread truck, and consumers noticed. It also earned the worst safety ratings in its class. Before long, GM was effectively out of the minivan segment. No biggie—those were just mainstream American families the automaker decided to ignore.

Ford Taurus. Try to explain this logic: After its 1986 debut, the Taurus became a perennial bestseller. So for the next 20 years, Ford let quality decline and neglected the family sedan, while pouring love and money into trucks and SUVs. By early this decade, the Taurus had become a dowdy, rental-lot staple. So Ford simply retired the Taurus in 2006 and replaced it with the 500 sedan—which went on to set records as one of the most short-lived models ever. A year later, Ford revived the Taurus name and applied it to a bastardized 500. But by then, the damage was done.

Ford Explorer. This breakout vehicle helped launch SUVs and drove record profits at Ford in the 1990s, as Americans flocked to big utilities that could take them off-road if they ever got adventurous. It also blinded Ford to the future. "Executives could not see beyond the green piling up at their feet," says David Magee, author of How Toyota Became No. 1. "The Explorer helped create an addiction that lasted 15 years." GM and Chrysler followed right behind, with SUVs like the Chevy Trailblazer and the Dodge Durango—lockstep moves that reveal how the Detroit automakers focused on each other rather than the broader marketplace.

Jaguar X-Type. Ford bought the British luxury brand Jaguar in 1990, when all three Detroit automakers were seeking ways to expand their global reach. Eventually, Ford decided to build an entry-level Jaguar starting at around $30,000 for people looking to move up from, say, a Mercury Marquis. The down-market move "represented everything that Jaguar is not," says Libby of J. D. Power. The X-Type was built on an ordinary sedan platform from elsewhere in Ford's lineup, and the front-wheel-drive system underwhelmed enthusiasts used to rear-drive European makes. Jag purists were horrified, and aspiring luxury buyers shunned the X-Type in favor of BMWs, Lexuses, and Acuras. After fumbling the luxury brand for nearly two decades, Ford sold Jaguar to an Indian conglomerate in 2008.

Hummer H2. It sure seemed cool back in 2003, when gas was less than $2 per gallon. And it sure seems gaudy now. This supersized SUV clearly had a heyday, but it also helped paint parent company GM as an enviro-hostile corporation that sold only gas guzzlers. Sales collapsed as gas prices rose toward $4 a gallon in mid-2008, and GM has been trying to sell the division for six months—with no takers, so far. "GM wanted to make Hummer a signature company brand," says Magee. "Instead, it showed the company was out of touch with the needs of the 21st century."

Toyota Prius. While GM was spending $1 billion to build up the Hummer franchise, Toyota was spending $1 billion to develop a high-mileage hybrid—even though gas prices were still low. After the Prius debuted in the United States in 2000, GM execs seized yet another opportunity to display their intimate knowledge of American consumers, arguing that hybrids didn't make economic sense and that only environmentalists would buy them. Today, Toyota can barely keep up with demand for the Prius, and it has plans to start building them in the United States. GM, meanwhile, is scrambling to rush hybrids and other high-mileage cars into dealerships—far too late.

Chrysler Sebring. Did Chrysler engineers set out to build the world's most boring car? Of course not. Yet Chrysler still produces this blandmobile to keep assembly lines running and maintain a presence, however weak, in the sedan market. In the new Darwinian auto industry, this model seems destined for extinction, since the only way to sell marginal cars is with steep discounts, which money-losing automakers can no longer afford. In fact, if Chrysler ends up being carved into pieces and sold to competitors, as many analysts expect, most of its passenger-car lineup could get the axe, since there's little to distinguish it. Besides—what's a sebring, anyway?

Jeep Compass. Quick, what's the difference between the Jeep Compass, the Jeep Liberty, and the Jeep Patriot? The bosses at Chrysler, which owns Jeep, could explain, but the real answer is that Chrysler has oversaturated its strongest brand lineup in a desperate attempt to boost sales. "The Compass is not needed," says James Bell of Intellichoice.com. "Just the Liberty, please." The Compass has the same mechanical underpinnings as the Dodge Caliber, which helps illustrate one of Detroit's favorite tricks: Create multiple versions of every product under a bunch of different brand names, hoping that if buyers shun one, they'll take a more favorable view of another. Message to Detroit: Consumers aren't that stupid. Give them a bit more credit, and you might have a future.

Holeshot
04-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Was it the car or the designers and builders. ;)

BOSS LX
04-04-2009, 03:03 PM
That is a stupid list.

awsomeears
04-04-2009, 03:05 PM
x2 ^

STANMAN
04-04-2009, 03:32 PM
X3, some of the cars on the list, like the Taurus and the Explorer, made BILLIONS for Ford.

TheRX7Project
04-04-2009, 04:07 PM
It wasn't their willingness to take it in the ass from the UAW and legacy costs, as well as mismanagement?

Holeshot
04-04-2009, 04:16 PM
It wasn't their willingness to take it in the ass from the UAW and legacy costs, as well as mismanagement?

Thats what I was thinking

Prince Valiant
04-04-2009, 04:42 PM
X3, some of the cars on the list, like the Taurus and the Explorer, made BILLIONS for Ford.In the case of the taurus though, it also has helped ford earn a reputation that will be difficult to shed. The Taurus DID become a beyond bland car that became synonomous with "dowdy," being primarily a rental fleet type car. Beyond the few *blank* (I can't think of a charitable name to describe these individuals), no one aspired to own a taurus from about 1994 on. Recall the "Celebration of ovals" Taurus?!? Perhaps running neck and neck with the new generation sebring, aztek, and edsel as ugliest car ever.

Car Guy
04-04-2009, 04:45 PM
That list is the biggest joke ever, and the person who wrote it is a moron.....:loser

TheRX7Project
04-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Recall the "Celebration of ovals" Taurus?!? Perhaps running neck and neck with the new generation sebring, aztek, and edsel as ugliest car ever.

You really think so? I actually like the 97-04(?) Taurus' styling... well, more than the previous bland barn-sided ones. The later ones with the actual grille in the front are the better looking, obviously.

GRAMPS SS
04-04-2009, 05:13 PM
You really think so? I actually like the 97-04(?) Taurus' styling... well, more than the previous bland barn-sided ones. The later ones with the actual grille in the front are the better looking, obviously.

the whife had a 97...the dammm front end looks like a carp....we were going to have Calico hand paint a fish hook in the front and then pin stripe the line going down the side of the car....ugly as shit...

now the remodeled 500 turned Taurus is nice looking...:stare

Karps TA
04-04-2009, 05:17 PM
My favorite PR piece on the rounded blob looking Taurus is when Ford used commercials to say how they had theft protection. I assumed it was cause they made them so ugly nobody wanted to steal them.

In reality most of that list is ridiculous. Sure the Taurus sold alot of cars, but alot of that was fleet sales, not retail. That car was the salespersons/rental car. And Fleet may get you numbers, but at a cut throat price. The Astro was never meant to compete against the true minivans like a Caravan. It was more for people who wanted a smaller then fullsize van, and they sold a bunch of them to businesses for work trucks. They were easier to drive, but still more usefull then a true minivan. Some of the other ones they mention like the Cavalier, and Sebring may not have been great cars, but they sold shitloads of them and they were cheap. People act like Cavalier buyers thought they were buying the first/last car they were ever going to own. They were entry level cars great for young drivers on a budget.

There are alot of other cars to point fingers at then what's on that list. The segment that cost Ford and GM the most was the mid-fullsize cars where the Camry ended up dominating. GM mishandling the W-body was their biggest mistake IMO from a product standpoint. Awful interiors, terrible brakes, and no real direction.

Silver86
04-04-2009, 05:21 PM
i dont understand the whole Prius thing... theyre ugly... theyre slow... theyre uncomfortable and i dont know about you guys, but when driving one... i feel like a complete d-bag... (father-in-law owns one)...

T-Bag
04-04-2009, 05:53 PM
Nobody, I mean NOBODY disses the Chevy Astro

Especially if it has AWD

PB86MCSS
04-04-2009, 06:01 PM
I saw that linked on Yahoo the other day and also found it silly and another lame "how-stupid-were-they-lolol" list. Its easy to go back and make fun of stuff....some justified, some not. The list is worst than most though, thinking the reason that they are hurting is certain car models is ridiculous. It didn't help their image but its also lame how a handful of poor models has really brought down the image of the Big 3...or at least in some eyes. Lets keep making fun of the Pinto for the next 25 years....wheeee...reading the article just made me dumber.

Cryptic
04-04-2009, 06:22 PM
I never thought the Taurus was an attractive car. The styling is very plain. To me it just says its "a car". No offense to the SHO nuts here, JMHO. Much like the Cavalier, its just blah for years and years.

BOSS LX
04-04-2009, 06:43 PM
I never thought the Taurus was an attractive car. The styling is very plain. To me it just says its "a car". No offense to the SHO nuts here, JMHO. Much like the Cavalier, its just blah for years and years.

I agree, but in that segment I think everything is blah. Just recently in my opinion, has the mid size cars actually started to look kinda good.

Besides some of the trucks, mustang and challenger to me everything new is blah. All the midsize cars and suv imports look the same to me.

lordairgtar
04-04-2009, 06:57 PM
the whife had a 97...the dammm front end looks like a carp....we were going to have Calico hand paint a fish hook in the front and then pin stripe the line going down the side of the car....ugly as shit...


One of my sisters bought a white one. It had some red streaks on the nose from some previous owners misstep. My mom took one look at it and said "Holy crap, a rolling tampon!" Pretty funny considering mom was 70 at the time.

STANMAN
04-04-2009, 07:11 PM
As the owner of an 08 Taurus, I can tell you they are nice looking, very nice inside, and with the 6 speed and 260HP, are no longer a slug. And the 2010's, they look even better.

Voodoo Chick
04-04-2009, 10:48 PM
I never thought the Taurus was an attractive car. The styling is very plain. To me it just says its "a car". No offense to the SHO nuts here, JMHO. Much like the Cavalier, its just blah for years and years.


Agreed....150 %.

Prince Valiant
04-05-2009, 10:10 AM
I agree, but in that segment I think everything is blah. Not quite so...the intrepid/concorde/vision trio, and then subsequent intrepid/concorde of later generations (and the chrysler 300M) were extremely stylish and good looking. Those cars made everything look plain in that class from the taurus, the once futuristic W-bodies, camaries/accord, et al.:

Holeshot
04-05-2009, 10:16 AM
The only Taurus I liked was the murdered out cop cars on the first Robo Cop

Karps TA
04-05-2009, 10:19 AM
I'd say the Camry is the most blah car from pretty much every aspect. It's not even remotely run to drive. Yet Toyota sells a ton of them. Someday I hope to understand why.

STANMAN
04-05-2009, 05:47 PM
Agreed....150 %.

How can you hate on a car that served you so well? Gratitude:rolf

Car Guy
04-05-2009, 06:05 PM
I'd say the Camry is the most blah car from pretty much every aspect. It's not even remotely run to drive. Yet Toyota sells a ton of them. Someday I hope to understand why.

x 2,000,000, it's one of the few reasons why I prefer Honda's over Toyotas......

Voodoo Chick
04-06-2009, 02:14 AM
How can you hate on a car that served you so well? Gratitude:rolf


Not hating. I was sentimentally attached to that car, very, very much.....but I never once looked at that little car and thought, "holy sh*t....that's a hottie..." They just have that "Yeah....I'm a car...." look, they don't say "I'm the automotive equivalent of hot sex...." know what I mean???? :rolf

Al
04-06-2009, 03:16 AM
That is a stupid list.

I agree. Many of those cars were successes for some time.

Waver
04-06-2009, 07:10 AM
The list is crap.....they were cars for their time.....with a few exceptions (the cimmeron, the pinto, the x type, and the compass) the cars on the list are decent and were made in a repsonce to what consumers wanted and still want today....and what is this with the prius? I dont see those all over the place, infact I think they are ugly

That_Guy
04-06-2009, 11:40 AM
It wasn't their willingness to take it in the ass from the UAW and legacy costs, as well as mismanagement?

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

the person who wrote the article is a tard

Voodoo Chick
04-06-2009, 11:47 AM
The list is crap.....they were cars for their time.....with a few exceptions (the cimmeron, the pinto, the x type, and the compass) the cars on the list are decent and were made in a repsonce to what consumers wanted and still want today....and what is this with the prius? I dont see those all over the place, infact I think they are ugly


Yeah....the cars listed were ( I thought, at least....) fairly popular for their respective eras.....It just seemed that whoever compiled that list just kinda based it on their own personal opinions.