Somebody talk me out of it....

[STANMAN]

Went to the auto show yesterday to look for the replacement for my truck. One thing that REALLY suprised me was the 09 Subaru WRX (not the STI, which I think is hideous) sedan. 265HP, 244 torque, AWD, and base price below 25K. It seems like ALOT of car for that price. I have never bought anything other than US cars, so this would be a leap for me. The other consideration is another truck, probably a Ram because they are so cheap. I wouldn't mind another Ford (I would PREFER another Ford), but the pricing is just out of line. New Ram with nice options stickers at 40K, and with all incentives is 28K, Ford stickers at 42K, with "A" plan that I can get through my former mother in law, 38K. 10K is a little much to swallow:rolf

But I know we have Subie guys in here, so tell me Subie guys (or gals), what are the drawbacks of the new WRX sedan. (whomever bought an 08 must be PISSED OFF, as last year they had 41 less HP, and non of the STI improvements, in 09 they got alot of STI stuff, and more HP for the same price. OUCH!!!)

[Silver350]

My advise is that if you use your truck for any type of hauling get another truck. I got a g6 and always threw a ton of f-bombs trying to fit something huge in the back seat or trunk. 15 months later I ended up going back to a truck and losing a lot of money on a car which now just seems like a POS rental.

[Exitspeed]

You forget to mention the factory aero is now standard on the 09's. :ast year it was an expensive upgrade.

I can't talk you out of it. The 09 WRX is one of the best bangs for your buck on the market. Yes, it is hideous. But it's performance and value are something to behold. I'd also suggest the 5 door hatch since you are kinda replacing a truck with it. You'll get more utility out of it that way. Do it.

[srt4eh]

you'll never be disappointed with a subaru

[STANMAN]

Oh, I have a Pacifica in the family, and it's amazing what can fit in it with the seats folded down. Michelle actually wanted to borrow my truck to move an end table and I had the Pacifica at work that day rather than the truck, and it had more than enough room for the end table.

Moral of the story is I don't really need to have a truck in the family, I have just always had one, and they do come in handy at times. I now live 30 miles each way to work and something that's easier on gas would come in handy as well. Flip side of that is I still want AWD for those days when the roads are shit. Have heard lots of good things about Subies in the snow. Come on you guys, you're supposed to be talking me OUT of it, not INTO it!!!!

[STANMAN]

Oh, and everywhere I have read the 09 WRX actually beats out the 07 and earlier WRX STI's in the 1/4 by .1 second and are faster 0-60 due to less weight and the 5 speed not having to shift out of 2nd on the 0-60 times. Of course the STI has all the nicer stuff:crying

[Breecher_7]

Bob you can get a dodge truck alot cheaper then 28K, you can grab a new gasser for the low to mid 20's last time I checked. If your really looking for a half ton though Id look at the chevy's, they are cheap as hell right now to. 25-27K will get you a really nice silverado and they are better trucks. (my oppinion I guess) Im always looking at new vehicles. Im assuming that everything is going well on the wrecked F150 though huh? I mean you were upside down as hell on that thing!!! If you didnt have gap you were fucked.

If you dont NEED a truck, the subie is a great choice, ive always been a fan of them!

[Prince Valiant]

While they do better than a truck and certainly represent an improvement, the WRX's aren't particularly noted for the fuel consumption.

Taking into account hwy driving, the difference b/w the Dodge that's rated at 18mpg (4WD/Hemi) and the subie (WRX/auto) that's rated at 24mpg (a 5 speed is 25mpg) shows just a 33% difference...not quite the difference I'd expect b/w a full-size 4WD pick-up pushing nearly 400hp and that of a compact car...even if it's AWD.

But then, take into account the cost of the fuel...the subie requires premium, while the dodge will run on regular (though they recommend mid-grade, it's not required). There is typically a .20 cent cost difference, which at current prices reflect an 11% difference.

Once you account for the difference in (current) fuel prices, your difference in fuel cost amount to only a 16% difference in fuel bills. The cost penalty is only $15.14 every 1000 miles!!!

That is a small difference for the amount of utility and flexibility to give up.

I wouldn't say "Don't get the subie;" instead I'd say "Don't get the subie justifying it's purchase due to fuel cost," because truth told, there aren't much advantages.

Now some might point out driving styles...but driving styles translates from car to car. If I drive in such a manner that I get 13mpg in the Dodge, it's not going to translate to a driving style that nets me 30mpg in the subie. Instead, I'd probably go into the upper teens in that car too. But, if I drive in a manner that nets me 21mpg in the dodge, I'd probably expect a better 28-30mpg in the subie.

Listen, if you WANT the subie, get it because it's fast (it is), fun to drive (it is), in hatch form relatively utilitarian for a compact (it is...but far less utilitarian than any truck), and whatever other reasons along those lines. It won't handle the snow better than an 5,900lbs 4WD truck, but it'll obviously exceed the capabilities of any other compact out there.

But if gas mileage is the main culprit, there are FAR better choices...

Given all the positives of the subie though, the small advantage in fuel cost can be thrown in as a "+", though only a very small "+" at that.

[shoooo32]

Hauling/towing aside, I would rather drive a car to work than a truck. Also, you'd be one set of snow tires away from being the 2010 snow drag champ.:headbang

[Breecher_7]

While they do better than a truck and certainly represent an improvement, the WRX's aren't particularly noted for the fuel consumption.

Taking into account hwy driving, the difference b/w the Dodge that's rated at 18mpg (4WD/Hemi) and the subie (WRX/auto) that's rated at 24mpg (a 5 speed is 25mpg) shows just a 33% difference...not quite the difference I'd expect b/w a full-size 4WD pick-up pushing nearly 400hp and that of a compact car...even if it's AWD.

But then, take into account the cost of the fuel...the subie requires premium, while the dodge will run on regular (though they recommend mid-grade, it's not required). There is typically a .20 cent cost difference, which at current prices reflect an 11% difference.

Once you account for the difference in (current) fuel prices, your difference in fuel cost amount to only a 16% difference in fuel bills. The cost penalty is only $15.14 every 1000 miles!!!

That is a small difference for the amount of utility and flexibility to give up.

I wouldn't say "Don't get the subie;" instead I'd say "Don't get the subie justifying it's purchase due to fuel cost," because truth told, there aren't much advantages.

Now some might point out driving styles...but driving styles translates from car to car. If I drive in such a manner that I get 13mpg in the Dodge, it's not going to translate to a driving style that nets me 30mpg in the subie. Instead, I'd probably go into the upper teens in that car too. But, if I drive in a manner that nets me 21mpg in the dodge, I'd probably expect a better 28-30mpg in the subie.

Listen, if you WANT the subie, get it because it's fast (it is), fun to drive (it is), in hatch form relatively utilitarian for a compact (it is...but far less utilitarian than any truck), and whatever other reasons along those lines. It won't handle the snow better than an 5,900lbs 4WD truck, but it'll obviously exceed the capabilities of any other compact out there.

But if gas mileage is the main culprit, there are FAR better choices...

Given all the positives of the subie though, the small advantage in fuel cost can be thrown in as a "+", though only a very small "+" at that.

18mpg in a 4wd Hemi Ram my ass. At 65mph on the cruise my ram got 12.5mpg-13mpg at the VERY best (this was hand calculated).

You want fuel efficiancy with a truck, it needs to be diesel.

I say go for the subie bob.

[michelle]

The Subaru dealer near me is no more (not sure if they moved or just closed), but I'll help you test drive a few vehicles. (:

[tommyt5078]

The Subaru dealer near me is no more (not sure if they moved or just closed), but I'll help you test drive a few vehicles. (:


It's moved about a mile up the road next to Culver's it's now Wilde Subaru.

[michelle]

Good to know - thanks!

[Prince Valiant]

18mpg in a 4wd Hemi Ram my ass. At 65mph on the cruise my ram got 12.5mpg-13mpg at the VERY best (this was hand calculated). But this reflects YOUR driving style...others have done markedly better than you. And it was specifically why I went through the effort to write THIS paragraph:

If I drive in such a manner that I get 13mpg in the Dodge, it's not going to translate to a driving style that nets me 30mpg in the subie. Instead, I'd probably go into the upper teens in that car too. But, if I drive in a manner that nets me 21mpg in the dodge, I'd probably expect a better 28-30mpg in the subie.
(^the big letters was just in case your eyes were straining to read it the first time^)

Much like my driving style can change to reflect me averaging as much as 85mpg in the insight (and I've got the pics to prove this), while when I drive differently on other days, I've hit as low as 43mpg.

You know why EPA numbers were used? Because it reflects standardized testing...equal b/w each car (equal weather, speeds, acceleration styles, routes, loads, hills, etc, etc, etc). I can't measure Billy Bobs mileage in a Dodge pick-up and then compare it to Wayne Gerdes (cleanmpg founder, who averaged 126mpg in his insight, and currently 55+mpg in his accord) driving a subie...though I could compare Wayne's driving to billy bob if they both drove the same truck...and my guess is that one would do much better than the other. FWIW, the guy also averages nearly 40mpg in a 4 cylinder 5 speed Ranger pick-up truck.

Diesels DO fit a different mold when it comes to driving style...they don't care about loads as much since they require sparkless ignition, hence their supreme advantage when driving with a towed load and why their mileage doesn't fall nearly as much as a gas truck, hence their relative ambivalence to driving styles too.

[tommyt5078]

I don't think you will go wrong with the WRX, but you will need to look at the Cobalt SS turbo as most mag. rate it better in track, 1/4 mile and it gets 30MPG.


I've owned a 02' WRX and have a 05' STi now, the 02' had some second gear problems and nothing else(first year made), the one and only problem with my 05' was a strut (sp) problem that the dealer just tighten back up, it has 34,000 miles and I've owned it for four years.


All and all I think you can't go wrong with the new WRX, but you will need to look at the Cobalt, not sure of problems on them? Your now going to be going into the import 4 cylinder thing, and it's looks like you have a Mustsang, big difference, you will be getting more Honda ricer trying to race you now also........So think long and hard on this.



Did you see Cad. STS-V, WOO that was nice but costs 64,000 :wooo

[michelle]

Bob used to drive an SRT-4, so he's used to all that already. (:

[jbiscuit]

Nothing but good things to say about the WRXs which is why I have owned mine so long. That and I haven't liked a body style since my 03 LOL. They are great cars, a blast to drive in the winter and get decent all around gas mileage. Plan to get slightly better gas mileage should you plan to go catless etc. I average 25 in the summer with mostly highway driving. She'll get 26-27 if I set the cruise for a tank full. In the winter mileage dips to around 20-ish

[pOrk]

You gotta go with a black one

[Flicktitty]

Get one! i really like them. and for the price you can't really beat them.

plus the cobb turbo back and accesport at's like 20% HP.

[Mr Twigbert]

I have never bought anything other than US cars, so this would be a leap for me.

I bought my first foreign car, Toyota, a few months ago and I couldn't be happier.. And although I didn't have a truck, going from the size of an Intrepid to a Corolla is rather nice.. Much easier to park and the distance I can go on a tank of gas, $17, is INSANE.. Yet, it's still 4 doors so carting the kids around is no problem at all.. Yet, still having the van for going distances w/ kids is perfect..

Heck, the wife takes the Toyota to work every day, bring it home and then I take it to work.. The van gets driven like 20 miles a week to pick up the kid from school.. Doing that a tank of gas in the van, $50ish, lasts dam near 3 weeks..

[Dr.Buick]

i bought a 07 sti, the biggest pyle of shit i have ever owned 38k fot crap. I owned it 6 months and was in the shop 5 of them.

[wrath]

I know two people that have WRX STis. One is an 03, the other is an 08 (I think, it's ugly).

Both of them get 16mpg around town and 23mpg on the highway (75mph). The 03 is missing all of its emissions equipment and has some wannabe pro-rally wheels and tires... but is otherwise stock. The 08 is bone stock. They both lose gas mileage if you don't have 93 octane in it. It's enough where the $.20/gallon the 93 costs more is overcome when compared to distance traveled for the 87 octane. The insurance on both of them is obnoxiously high. As in higher than a brand new pickup. On another note, the Impreza RS has pretty cheap insurance.


Silver350 and I are practically brothers. I owned at least one pickup my entire life, never had a car before (that I drove). In October, 2007 I bought a Pontiac G6 and sold my GMT800 with 186,000 miles on it. I've regretted not having a truck ever since. The G6's insurance is ridiculous ($125/month). City gas mileage is 14-20 depending on temperature, distance, and driving style. If I drive it like my GMT800 and it's cold out... and short distances I get 14mpg. If it's warm out and I drive it longer distances I get 20mpg. The GMT800 got 15.5mpg around town unless I was always doing jackrabbit launches and then it was 14mpg. However, the GMT800 got 18-19.5mpg on the highway and the G6 gets 28-32mpg (25 if you're traveling at 85 passing cars every mile marker). I've driven both vehicles countless times to both upper and lower Michigan. The G6 was purchased with 21 miles on it October 23rd, 2007 (and I didn't drive it for an entire month) and as of today it has over 27,000 miles. I also drove a Pontiac G5 for a while and put 6600 miles on that. I've put enough miles on the G6 to know that 93 octane in the summertime pays for fuel economy but in the wintertime it doesn't matter if you run anything other than 87 octane.

The fuel economy of the G6 for all those highway miles paid for the depreciation of the car (and it's been brutal) when compared to my GMT800. But now that I'm not driving highway miles much anymore it no longer pays.

Now that we don't drive those miles anymore my girlfriend is all for getting a truck. We'll keep the G6. She even suggested we go look at them this past weekend. She misses it. The big comfy seats. The silence. The visibility. Not having to listen to me bitch because nothing fits in the G6.

If you're looking for a commuter vehicle I suggest getting a commuter vehicle. Not a toy like a WRX. Our Pontiac G5 got 28mpg city with spirited driving. If I tried I could best 30mpg city (on the same route as the G6's 18-20mpg). Highway was proportional to the speed at which you traveled. It'd be cake for you to get home and back all week on a tank of gas.

If you're looking at getting another all-around vehicle, get a pickup.

Pretty bling Rams are going for around $19k in Michigan. Boucher in Racine has some pretty good prices on Silverados. We all know GM gets the best fuel economy out of all the fullsize trucks and currently has the best resale.

[STANMAN]

The appraiser said Fords have the best resale, then GM's, and he said don't even think about resale with a Dodge.

I guess if I go to a commuter car, it would have to be somewhat fun to drive, I don't want some ho-hum vehicle that I have to make payments on. It's still a Ram vs. the WRX. I guess I will just have to drive one and see if I like it.

[wrath]

Model / Model Description / List Price / Factory D/H(b) / MSRP(c) Employee Price (c) / DFC
1AP69 / Cobalt SS Turbo Sedan / $23,425.00 / $0.00 / $23,425.00 / $21,818.13 / $670.00


A lot of fish in the sea for a sporty econobox.

I used to think Fords had the highest resale but I don't know where the high resale numbers come from. My friend got rid of his 27,000 mile 2006 F250 complete with leather and a 6 speed manual (super rare, he ordered it) for a whopping $13,500. Maybe the $20,000 Silverado at Holz actually sells for $15,000 and the $17,000 F150 at Heiser actually sells for $17,000. If you watch craigslist for 3 valve 5.4L F150s they go for a lot less than the same vintage 5.3L GMT800.

You could always get the best of both worlds and buy a new Ram and get a PT Cruiser or Caliber for free (some places down south are running this promo). haha.

[Breecher_7]

Get the WRX, im telling you that you will regret the ram...

[STANMAN]

Bob you can get a dodge truck alot cheaper then 28K, you can grab a new gasser for the low to mid 20's last time I checked. If your really looking for a half ton though Id look at the chevy's, they are cheap as hell right now to. 25-27K will get you a really nice silverado and they are better trucks. (my oppinion I guess) Im always looking at new vehicles. Im assuming that everything is going well on the wrecked F150 though huh? I mean you were upside down as hell on that thing!!! If you didnt have gap you were fucked.

If you dont NEED a truck, the subie is a great choice, ive always been a fan of them!

Point me in the direction of Rams that cheap, the lowest I have seen was 28K for a "Big Horn" edition (it has all the nice stuff). I am about 3K upside down from my truck. Good thing I just got my taxes back!!!

[STANMAN]

And does anyone know how Subie dealers "deal"??? Is it like a normal American car dealer? They don't seem to have any incentives or anything like that, and no 0% stuff. I guess the real question is if the sticker says 26K on the Subie, what can I expect to get it for??

[Breecher_7]

Point me in the direction of Rams that cheap, the lowest I have seen was 28K for a "Big Horn" edition (it has all the nice stuff). I am about 3K upside down from my truck. Good thing I just got my taxes back!!!

No.. I will be no part of the dodge truck purchase. Ive owned one, i wouldnt do it again. Buy a chevy if you want a truck... :thumbsup

Regarldless of what the BCM rocket scientist thinks they get really shitty milage and dont pull a load for shit. And if its my "driving" style, well I still got 4mpg better with the gas chevy then I did with the ram and it ran better, was more comfortable and just way nicer overall.

[johnny--2k]

Stan, you got PM!

[Car Guy]

This is all I have today.....:thumbsup

http://www.zanyimages.com/Inspiration/You%20can%20do%20it%20!.jpg

[HITMAN]

"Somebody talk me out of it..."
OK. How about... The new Subaru Imprezza sedans look strange in a melted sort of way, they get crappy mileage compared to a 2wd econo-car and they sound like an old air-cooled VW Beetle. :gay That right there would be a deal breaker for me.

If It were me, I would look seriously at a new Cobalt SS. That is one hot-shit little pocket-rocket according to what I've been reading.

[88Nightmare]

a simple tune on the Cobalt SS/TC yields some very nice results. 13's for sure

[STANMAN]

AWD and 4 door. Subie>Cobalt SS.

[michelle]

I've always liked the Legacy GT's. A little bit nicer of a car without that teenage/ricer attitude.

[jbiscuit]

I know two people that have WRX STis. One is an 03, the other is an 08 (I think, it's ugly).

Both of them get 16mpg around town and 23mpg on the highway (75mph). The 03 is missing all of its emissions equipment and has some wannabe pro-rally wheels and tires... but is otherwise stock. The 08 is bone stock. They both lose gas mileage if you don't have 93 octane in it. It's enough where the $.20/gallon the 93 costs more is overcome when compared to distance traveled for the 87 octane. The insurance on both of them is obnoxiously high. As in higher than a brand new pickup. On another note, the Impreza RS has pretty cheap insurance.

what are you talking about here exactly? You one friend puts 87 octane in his WRX? Does he just turn the radio up louder to muffle the pinging? :rolf

[Breecher_7]

AWD and 4 door. Subie>Cobalt SS.

But the Cobalt can be had much cheaper and I believe is currently available at 0% interest through GMAC.

You have a quick car already, and front wheel drives do just fine in the snow. Id go for the commuter/bang for the buck.

[STANMAN]

But the Cobalt can be had much cheaper and I believe is currently available at 0% interest through GMAC.

You have a quick car already, and front wheel drives do just fine in the snow. Id go for the commuter/bang for the buck.

That's why I want someone who has dealt with a Subie dealer to chime in, I want to know how they operate. I just don't think I could do an SS, to me the Subie looks better, and when you think of AWD and more HP stock vs. stock, the two aren't even in the same boat.

[88Nightmare]

the new WRX looks better??? :rolf


BTW for 2009 there is a 4 door Cobalt SS ;)

[STANMAN]

the new WRX looks better??? :rolf


BTW for 2009 there is a 4 door Cobalt SS ;)

Not the STI, which I think looks like ass, but yeah, I think the WRX sedan looks better. Never been a fan of the Cavabolt. I see they make a 4 door now, and it's not THAT bad looking. I don't think I could get over the cheapness of the interior, which has always turned me off to GM stuff.

[88Nightmare]

function over form bob, function over form :D

[HITMAN]

the two aren't even in the same boat.

Your right, the Scoob sounds like a car they started building in 1945. Budabudabudabuda.... Too bad they couldn't build in that little whistling note in the exhaust that Beetles get when they accelerate...:rolf

And while the Scoob makes 5 more hp, it makes 16lbs less torque, it weighs more, it gets worse mileage and it doesn't handle or brake as well. And I'm sure that the Imprezza based interior is worlds better that that of the Cobalt: Cheap plastic verses cheaper plastic. Please... :rolleyes:

[Prince Valiant]

I will be no part of the dodge truck purchase. Ive owned one, i wouldnt do it again. Buy a chevy if you want a truck... :thumbsup And Forrest isn't such a bad guy, right? Your judgement calls should be regarded with at least a grain of salt. :rolf

[Car Guy]

That's why I want someone who has dealt with a Subie dealer to chime in, I want to know how they operate.


Well it that's the case.....:)

My father (who is ANAL about his vehicles) is on his 9th Subaru since the early 90s and has never had a complaint towards a dealer concerning warranty repair or any other dealings. The only vehicle that they had any uncommon 'issues' with was their `05 Forester, can't remember exactly what it was but everything was taken care of no questions asked. When the warranty would expire on something I would then do ALL of the maintenance and never found a thing that would make me think twice about buying a Subaru for myself. If I was looking for a new DD I wouldn’t think twice if it was between the Cobalt and Impreza, not even for a second.....:thumbsup

[HITMAN]

And Forrest isn't such a bad guy, right? Your judgement calls should be regarded with at least a grain of salt. :rolf

Oh Snap! :rolf

[HITMAN]

Well it that's the case.....:)

My father (who is ANAL about his vehicles) is on his 9th Subaru since the early 90s and has never had a complaint towards a dealer concerning warranty repair or any other dealings. The only vehicle that they had any uncommon 'issues' with was their `05 Forester, can't remember exactly what it was but everything was taken care of no questions asked. When the warranty would expire on something I would then do ALL of the maintenance and never found a thing that would make me think twice about buying a Subaru for myself. If I was looking for a new DD I wouldn’t think twice if it was between the Cobalt and Impreza, not even for a second.....:thumbsup

Yeah, my Justy was a miracle of modern engineering...:thumbsup

[Car Guy]

Justy = short for Justin(me).....:thumbsup

[HITMAN]

Justy = short for Justin(me).....:thumbsup

Was the Justy not a Subaru? Or maybe it (just...:rolleyes:) wasn't an approved by Car Guy model.

Other than being great in the snow, it was a shit-box.

[Car Guy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Justy

The Justy was before Subaru got serious about their products, the mid-90s is when things started to turn around. However, American 'shit-boxes' of that time period weren't that much better.....:shades









.

[STANMAN]

One thing I DON'T miss about my SRT4 is torque steer, which is another + to the Subie vs. SS. And yeah, the WRX interior isn't great by any means, but they do have very nice seats (Recaro style). Best seat I sat in at the auto show last night????SRT8 Challenger BY FAR, the things like a recliner it's so nice.




I still want someone to chime in on what I can expect from a dealer as far as price off sticker. I have bought enough detroit iron to know there's LOTS of wiggle room, but I don't know on the imports. Lets say I can get the SS for 5K cheaper than the WRX, that's alot of cash, perhaps enough to make me look past the "interior by Hasbro" that every GM has (even the ZR1).

[88Nightmare]

yeah because the Neon had interior rivaled only by Maybach and Bently :D



By the way, Recaros were also offered in the Cobalt SS, not sure if they still are.

[HITMAN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Justy

The link proves my point, not all things Subaru are design marvels. I think Detroit builds fine cars these days, just as good as foreign builders, but their reputation has suffered due to the shit they used to build. A reputation is an easy thing to lose and hard as hell to get back. Never-the less, my recent cars have included Honda, Gm and Ford. None of them have failed me, but the Detroit/Dearborn stuff had considerably more power, and didn't feel like if I had an accident in it my atoms would be spread from here to Pluto.

[Flicktitty]

hey Bob, Get a hold of Fizz (Lightspeed on here) He works at the subie dealership on 27th street maybe he can help ya.

[Car Guy]

The link proves my point, not all things Subaru are design marvels. I think Detroit builds fine cars these days, just as good as foreign builders, but their reputation has suffered due to the shit they used to build. A reputation is an easy thing to lose and hard as hell to get back. Never-the less, my recent cars have included Honda, Gm and Ford. None of them have failed me, but the Detroit/Dearborn stuff had considerably more power, and didn't feel like if I had an accident in it my atoms would be spread from here to Pluto.


^^^ Just like Subaru (according to you).....

The argument can be made that ALL automakers made 'shit' years ago but what has happened since that time is what it all comes down to. I actually prefer many current 'big 3' vehicles over the foreign competition but between the Impreza & Cobalt I still say the Subie is the better OVERALL car, that's all.....:)



hey Bob, Get a hold of Fizz (Lightspeed on here) He works at the subie dealership on 27th street maybe he can help ya.

Small world, I didn't know he was a member on here. My father just purchased a `09 Outback from him two weeks ago at 'Subaru City', and if he can 'deal' with my father he can deal with anybody.....:rolf




.

[wrath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cobalt_SS#SS_Turbocharged

The interiors on the SS/TC are kind of nice for a domestic ricerwagon. The interior on my G5 was no worse than any other car in the $16,000 range and miles ahead of a Civic or Corolla. My coworker has a naturally aspirated SS and it's pretty nice inside also. For the price. You can't get the Recaro seats in the TC LNF. But the 09 seats are comfortable enough I was going to buy them for my G5 if I kept it.

[88Nightmare]

the 1985 Subaru wagon my parents bought new back in the day seemed pretty reliable from what they told me, however the body rotted out to the point where it made the car unsafe. This only about 10 or 11 years into ownership. The car was junked (donated) in 1996. The engine was still running strong though. The wagon was replaced in 1996 with a 1995 Escort wagon. That car had ZERO get-up-and-go but after 10 years of ownership, it didnt have ANY rot on it, unlike the subaru. Maybe they have improved their quality of steel since then

[88Nightmare]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cobalt_SS#SS_Turbocharged

The interiors on the SS/TC are kind of nice for a domestic ricerwagon. The interior on my G5 was no worse than any other car in the $16,000 range and miles ahead of a Civic or Corolla. My coworker has a naturally aspirated SS and it's pretty nice inside also. For the price. You can't get the Recaro seats in the TC LNF. But the 09 seats are comfortable enough I was going to buy them for my G5 if I kept it.

ahh I remember 2005/2006/2007 you could get the Recaros as an option, wasn't sure if they were still offered, however I haven't checked out the interior of the new turbocharged ones yet

[STANMAN]

yeah because the Neon had interior rivaled only by Maybach and Bently :D



By the way, Recaros were also offered in the Cobalt SS, not sure if they still are.

If they still offered an SRT4 neon I would buy it, I paid under 19K for mine and it was the highest optioned SRT4 you could buy (ACR version). I can't stand the Calibers looks, to me it's way fuglier than the SS or the WRX.

[STANMAN]

And I agree with others, the big 3 puts out stuff these days that's comparable quality wise with Toyota and Honda, while offering more power, at cheaper prices. That mid 80's reputation they have is hard to shake.

[michelle]

You can rent the van until the new SHOs are available this summer. (:

[STANMAN]

hey Bob, Get a hold of Fizz (Lightspeed on here) He works at the subie dealership on 27th street maybe he can help ya.

He hasn't logged in since 08. I did send him an email through his profile, I hope it's still the same one, lol!!!

[STANMAN]

You can rent the van until the new SHOs are available this summer. (:

Rent?? Ouch. I will be calling soon, going to the auction today.

[michelle]

Well not rent, like pay money, more like rent and bank hours for me to test out the new paddle shifters in the SHO.

[Car Guy]

And I agree with others, the big 3 puts out stuff these days that's comparable quality wise with Toyota and Honda, while offering more power, at cheaper prices. That mid 90's reputation they have is hard to shake.


FIXED...!!! :thumbsup

In a nutshell the US automakers were 'sleeping' at the wheel while enjoying all of the millions they were making and the 'others' were still hard at work improving their products to where they are today.....




.

[STANMAN]

FIXED...!!! :thumbsup

In a nutshell the US automakers were 'sleeping' at the wheel while enjoying all of the millions they were making and the 'others' were still hard at work improving their products to where they are today.....




.

I think by the mid 90's they had realized they weren't keeping up with the Jonses. I mean they made some REAL crapola in the 80's.

[Car Guy]

Realized yes (well, maybe) but it takes decades to make any serious changes, and that is pretty much where we are now.....:thumbsup

[Nick]

I <3 my Subaru. You too, should get one.

[Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay]

Bob,

the 09 cobalt SS has FACTORY Recaro seats in the front, and Brembo brakes. MSRP on the Cobalt SS is 25k, They can be had for 19 or so.

[Nick]

Subaru > Cobalt SS

:D

Plus - it's not a Chebby

:D

[Prince Valiant]

Is it any surprise that the guy who asked "Should I get a dodge truck, or a subaru WRX?" is being told "Get the Cobalt!" on this board? :rolf

[T-Bag]

Cobalt SS's are ******* garbage, I don't care how quick they are or how cheap they are. They're JUNK. Shitty plastic interiors, matchbox car exterior, typical cheesy design.

The guy asked for a truck or a WRX which is leaps and bounds ahead of anything the Cobalt SS can dream of.

With that said go buy a Chevy truck.

[Breecher_7]

And Forrest isn't such a bad guy, right? Your judgement calls should be regarded with at least a grain of salt. :rolf

Wow, Low blow..... Yeah, it took me a while to catch onto the bullshit, that I will admit. So Fuck you... :thumbsup

But I have owned a hemi ram and ive owned the competition... THe competition is better all around, power, towing, interior quality, ride quality, gas milage. Chevy trucks are just better built.

Last time I checked you havent owned either a Hemi Ram or a GMT 800 or 900 chassis pickup, therefore you have no oppinion on the topic. :thumbsup

Anyways, enough bickering...

Bob, Im still voting practicality... You have your toy. A Cobalt SS with the pricing and the financing is a no brainer. The WRX is much nicer, but carries a much heavier tag.

[Nick]

Bob - Get the Subaru.

[1320PNY]

Subaru is a great car. The Legacy platform is built in Indiana. That is the only platform Amy and I buy as it keeps U.S. workers "at work". The impreza comes in from overseas and drunk Russians put all the "American mod stuff" on in port. My friend in MI is a Subaru Guru and he says anything non-turbo lives forever and anything turbo is just like any American car for longevity.

[Prince Valiant]

Last time I checked you havent owned either a Hemi Ram or a GMT 800 or 900 chassis pickup, therefore you have no oppinion on the topic. :thumbsupLast time I checked, he wasn't asking anyones opinion of the Ram versus chevy. Nor the subie versus Cobalt. Last time I checked, it was Ram versus Subie.

And notice, I haven't even said 'bob, just get the ram and be done with it;" I honestly could not care less what he gets (which from the sounds of, he leaning toward the subie) I just put forth my two-cents on the reasoning of gas mileage being a factor in a purchase decision...and how it should be rather low among the list of reasons when considering the purchase of the two vehicles he's considering.

But your reasoning that I don't or shouldn't have an opinion on chevy versus dodge is quite incorrect....much like....... :rolf

[T-Bag]

The link proves my point, not all things Subaru are design marvels. I think Detroit builds fine cars these days, just as good as foreign builders.

I REALLY have to disagree with this, especially after spending a ton of time at the Chicago Auto show.

After jumping in several BMW's/Mercedes, then going to the other side...The Cadillac STS-V, CTS-V were nothing short of junk in comparison. 80k for an STS-V with complete ass build quality, a pillar covers that have at least .5 inch play in either direction, door plastics that you can nearly rip off with little force. No thanks.

The same goes for everyday non-luxury cars, hop in any 09 volkswagen, honda and to a lesser extent toyota, then jump in a chevy or a pontiac...you can't even tell me the build quality is anywhere near as close...you would be lieing. As far as engines go? I'm sure the reliability of the drivetrains,it is pretty damn even nowdays. Ford is a bit better in the interior design than the other two.

[STANMAN]

I <3 my Subaru. You too, should get one.

How much off MSRP did you get. They sure don't seem to deal as much as the domestic stuff, or am I missing something??

[2006wrxtr]

If you drive it like they do in the new commercial and it breaks they won't cover it under warranty,

[STANMAN]

If you drive it like they do in the new commercial and it breaks they won't cover it under warranty,

Link to commercial?

[osiris152006]

I work for Sommers Buick Pontiac and Subaru in Mequon. I dont know off the top of my head what we are selling 09 Wrx's for the invoice is $26k or $29k for the wrx premium, but I do know that we were letting our 5 door Sti's go for $4000-$5000 below invoice because we werent selling any. I will find out tomorrow if we are letting them go for less than invoice. Ive been there for almost 4 years, and I know the salesman and new car manager very well. Here is our website if your interested
http://www.sommers.subaru.com/index.htm

Even though I work with Subarus every day Im not a huge fan of them, but I would defiantely tell you to get the Subie over the Cobalt ANYDAY!!! Ive driven the new STi's and WRx's many times (Im the new car set up guy at Sommers) and they arent all that bad. I also set up the new Gm's too and I personally think they are all crap, horrible quality inside and out, horrible performance and last time I checked Cavaliers, I mean Cobalts are not and NEVER will be high performance cars. That is strictly my opinion and Im not going to get into a big argument about American cars vs. Foreign cars. I only buy foreign cars and nothing anyone says are here is going to change my mind on that.

[BOSS LX]

No wrx!

Buy a 09 f150, with the new 6 speed auto! Parents just bought a loaded one for 29k.

There, I tried talking you out of it!

[STANMAN]

I work for Sommers Buick Pontiac and Subaru in Mequon. I dont know off the top of my head what we are selling 09 Wrx's for the invoice is $26k or $29k for the wrx premium, but I do know that we were letting our 5 door Sti's go for $4000-$5000 below invoice because we werent selling any. I will find out tomorrow if we are letting them go for less than invoice. Ive been there for almost 4 years, and I know the salesman and new car manager very well. Here is our website if your interested
http://www.sommers.subaru.com/index.htm

Even though I work with Subarus every day Im not a huge fan of them, but I would defiantely tell you to get the Subie over the Cobalt ANYDAY!!! Ive driven the new STi's and WRx's many times (Im the new car set up guy at Sommers) and they arent all that bad. I also set up the new Gm's too and I personally think they are all crap, horrible quality inside and out, horrible performance and last time I checked Cavaliers, I mean Cobalts are not and NEVER will be high performance cars. That is strictly my opinion and Im not going to get into a big argument about American cars vs. Foreign cars. I only buy foreign cars and nothing anyone says are here is going to change my mind on that.



Yeah, I am in contact with your dealership, a woman named Michelle (not the Michelle on here obviously). You work with Subie's every day and are not a fan, may I ask why not?

[Nick]

I bought my Legacy from Aaron Hammil from Sommers. Great experience, and fantastic service in the service dept.
I got what I wanted from Trade-in (DJacobs wouldnt give me shit) and a fantastic deal on the car and jumped through hoops for me.

[osiris152006]

Honestly, part of it is because I also do work on them and 80% of my day they piss me off plus I get to see all the ones that come in with big problems, headgaskets (very common for older N/a Foresters) blown motors,blown turbos, trannies etc. The 08 and especially the 09's have also gotten alot cheaper on there interiors and exterior trim. (not as cheap as Gm but pretty close). I do alot of accesory installs like remote starts,fog lights, satellite radios and ipod interfaces, and everything is held together with cheap clips, zip ties and double sided tape. I get about 5 Subies a week with stupid complaints about rattles and other dumb complaints. Another reason is the Subaru line does not appeal to me, I dont like the styling, and I dislike the motor design. It may be very reliable to some but I dont like the design and how ugly and cluttered the engine bay is because of it and the sound. I know that every manufacture has its defects and that if I worked at some other Import service shop I would prolly dislike that car company too because I only see the broken ones that come in so I guess I am a little biased.

[osiris152006]

I bought my Legacy from Aaron Hammil from Sommers. Great experience, and fantastic service in the service dept.
I got what I wanted from Trade-in (DJacobs wouldnt give me shit) and a fantastic deal on the car and jumped through hoops for me.

Ya I know Aaron, he is a good guy and I do agree our service and sales Departments are great. But like I just posted the main reason I have a bad taste for Subaru is because I am a mechanic and I work on them.....I think each and every other mechanic can agree that they hate the cars they have to work on day after day. Im sure if i had to work on my Acura every day I would hate it too.

[Nick]

I think that may come from the majority of the owners thinking their Subaru's are invincible, so they fail to maintain them properly. Would you agree?

[STANMAN]

I bought my Legacy from Aaron Hammil from Sommers. Great experience, and fantastic service in the service dept.
I got what I wanted from Trade-in (DJacobs wouldnt give me shit) and a fantastic deal on the car and jumped through hoops for me.

Describe "fantastic deal". Like domestic fantastic, where the sticker is 42 and you can get it for 29 type of fantastic?? Sticker on the WRX I would want is like 27ish.

[osiris152006]

Actually yes I totally agree....We have some really nice that ones that come in on a regular basis and are very well maintained. But.... some think their STI's/wrx's are invincible and are "race cars" and thats why we have been seeing alot more blown motors lately. There have been alot of Legacy Gt and foresters, like 2005-2006 body style with blown turbos because the customers are putting on 7500 miles or more between oil changes!! But I completey agree with your statement, that does make the maintained Subies look like their in the same boat as the customers who dont maintain theirs.

[osiris152006]

Describe "fantastic deal". Like domestic fantastic, where the sticker is 42 and you can get it for 29 type of fantastic?? Sticker on the WRX I would want is like 27ish.


NO...... You have to understand your not going to get a huge drop in price on imports like the domestics are doing. Imports are hurting as well in this economy but no where near as big as Gm,Ford,Chrysler. They may budge a little bit, but understand that Subaru is actually doing pretty good. Surprisingly somehow are Subaru sales are better now than before the economy went down the toilet.....or even this time last year we have been setting record months!! :confused:confused:confused

[tommyt5078]

Ok I going to tell you that the best place to buy your car is going to be at Subaru of Schaumburg in Illinois, as long as you don't trade a car in, that is key here DON'T TRADE A CAR IN......They have a bad rep about not paying the car off after the trade.


When I got my 05' STI from them I got it for 28,995 and the MSRP was 34,9?? something, Don Jacobs, Sommers, Frank Gentile couldn't and wouldn't touch the price, Phuck Frank Gentile also had a Honda dealer right by and wouldn't touch the price even if we bought are 05' Honda Pilot at the same time. So we got the Honda at Schlossmann and the Subaru at Schaumburg.


If your serious call Ron at 847-884-6000, check out the web site and find a car color, and options and see what the MSRP is on the site and don't even think about going to see him until he gives you 4,000 off that and when you get to the place get 1,000 more off.


You WILL NOT find a better deal up here in Milwaukee and if you do I will be shocked.


Only other problem is the drive will be around 1.5 hours one way.

[Nick]

Describe "fantastic deal". Like domestic fantastic, where the sticker is 42 and you can get it for 29 type of fantastic?? Sticker on the WRX I would want is like 27ish.

My Spec B sticker was 36.5 or something along those lines. I walked out for 32.1 or something without my trade in.
Being that my car was much harder to find, and the other dealer was not willing to budge by at least 2k, i thought it was a great deal.

[tommyt5078]

FYI,


Don Jaboc had a real nice Spec-B with a six speed in it that had a sticker of 34 and they sold it for 28 a couple of years ago. It also had a number of like 800 made and the number was in the 700's.

[Nick]

That was probably an 07 model.

I bought mine 2 years ago this july and it's an 08, so they were probably trying to get it off the lot.

[Car Guy]

I think each and every other mechanic can agree that they hate the cars they have to work on day after day. Im sure if i had to work on my Acura every day I would hate it too.

I consider myself fortunate to disagree with you, and of all the makes/models my personal car of 'choice' is a Ford Taurus. However, that is why I can never see myself working at a dealership, I'm deathly afraid that the same thing(s) every day would get :sleep . Granted 50 years of 'everything' might get boring too but I'm sure it will take quite a bit longer......



We have some really nice that ones that come in on a regular basis and are very well maintained. But.... some think their STI's/wrx's are invincible and are "race cars" and thats why we have been seeing alot more blown motors lately.

That holds true for ANY brand, but when the original 'quality' is lower to begin with you see it much sooner.....




.

[88Nightmare]

Even though I work with Subarus every day Im not a huge fan of them, but I would defiantely tell you to get the Subie over the Cobalt ANYDAY!!! Ive driven the new STi's and WRx's many times (Im the new car set up guy at Sommers) and they arent all that bad. I also set up the new Gm's too and I personally think they are all crap, horrible quality inside and out, horrible performance and last time I checked Cavaliers, I mean Cobalts are not and NEVER will be high performance cars. That is strictly my opinion and Im not going to get into a big argument about American cars vs. Foreign cars. I only buy foreign cars and nothing anyone says are here is going to change my mind on that.

how is a subaru any more of a high performance car? considering the reputation cavaliers and base model cobalts had, the cobalt ss/tc is quite a turn around. just a tune and you are in the 13s..... I highly doubt the subies are capable of that.



I also noticed no one rebutted my comment about subaru using crappy steel :confused

[yippiedoodle]

are you ******* kidding me? if im not mistaken the new subies are in the 13's bone stock!!! dont even need a "tune"

[88Nightmare]

so then is the awd system under them worth the extra 6 grand?

[letsrunem]

Really depends on what you want to do with it. A Subaru to truck comparison is apples to oranges.

[jbiscuit]

I can tell you that a WRX to a Truck is apples to oranges and so is a WRX to a Cobalt. Not even in the same ballpark. Drive both and then decide what car is for you. Better yet, go drive both on a snowy day and let us know what you like better. :)

[yippiedoodle]

so then is the awd system under them worth the extra 6 grand?

******* A its worth it.. it makes it nice for the track, the street, and you can drive it all year around. just get over the fact that cobalts suck dude..

[STANMAN]

so then is the awd system under them worth the extra 6 grand?

The sticker prices are spot on each other. The base WRX is $24995, which is probably very close to a SS, and I KNOW it's not 6K off!

[Breecher_7]

The sticker prices are spot on each other. The base WRX is $24995, which is probably very close to a SS, and I KNOW it's not 6K off!

Yeah but you can grab the SS for alot cheaper and for 0%.... But I agree the subie is a better option. Its all about how much you want to spend.

[Flicktitty]

I know Motor Trend ran a 13.5 @ 100+ mph that's rollin right along..

for a quick everyday car that's moving. Plus like i said earlier a turboback exhaust and acessport has some huge improvements. i could see with those 2 mods and a good driver maybe a high 12.

[wrath]

Did you go to the auto show yet? There are a bunch of cars and trucks there that might be worth your attention. You can walk from one to the next comparing. Just none of them have the battery hooked up so you can't play with any of the gadgets.

The fit and finish of these vehicles is just so pathetic. The amount of plastic flashing on the cars and trucks I saw was just plain embarrassing. You'd think it was 1987 or something.

I did notice that Ford's pickup interior (2010) was much nicer than GM's. Kind of square like a 94 Voyager inside but overall I think it is nicer. Lightyears ahead of Dodge though. In fact, I saw one redeeming feature of the Dodge, the bedsides with storage. And that's it. Ford's seats were more comfortable also. The GMT900 seats are a step in the wrong direction for GM compared to the GMT800. Too bad Ford's Powertrain is ten years ancient.

It's amazing that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook/Traverse are so much nicer inside than any of the pickups. In fact, I think it's nicer than the Escalade.

The Subarus and Hondas were definitely shitboxes. I even heard one 20something woman say "that's a nice car if I wanted a tiny car that's way overpriced". The Lexus' were getting no love either which probably explains why GM sold a thousand more Caddies last month than Toyota sold Lexus'.

Best seats I sat in all night:
Z06 Corvette. Even my fatass fits so comfy in them.

[Flicktitty]

i geuss i don't understand some people's "seating" choice......

[yippiedoodle]

I know Motor Trend ran a 13.5 @ 100+ mph that's rollin right along..

for a quick everyday car that's moving. Plus like i said earlier a turboback exhaust and acessport has some huge improvements. i could see with those 2 mods and a good driver maybe a high 12.

or a Boost controller. if your gonna go out and buy a NEW car, spend the extra $$ you tight wad, otherwise you will be unhappy

[yippiedoodle]

Plus a subie is gonna be worth WAY more in 5 years then a stupid ass p.o.s cobalt.. its all about the resale value..

[STANMAN]

Did you go to the auto show yet? There are a bunch of cars and trucks there that might be worth your attention. You can walk from one to the next comparing. Just none of them have the battery hooked up so you can't play with any of the gadgets.

The fit and finish of these vehicles is just so pathetic. The amount of plastic flashing on the cars and trucks I saw was just plain embarrassing. You'd think it was 1987 or something.

I did notice that Ford's pickup interior (2010) was much nicer than GM's. Kind of square like a 94 Voyager inside but overall I think it is nicer. Lightyears ahead of Dodge though. In fact, I saw one redeeming feature of the Dodge, the bedsides with storage. And that's it. Ford's seats were more comfortable also. The GMT900 seats are a step in the wrong direction for GM compared to the GMT800. Too bad Ford's Powertrain is ten years ancient.

It's amazing that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook/Traverse are so much nicer inside than any of the pickups. In fact, I think it's nicer than the Escalade.

The Subarus and Hondas were definitely shitboxes. I even heard one 20something woman say "that's a nice car if I wanted a tiny car that's way overpriced". The Lexus' were getting no love either which probably explains why GM sold a thousand more Caddies last month than Toyota sold Lexus'.

Best seats I sat in all night:
Z06 Corvette. Even my fatass fits so comfy in them.



Yes I went to the auto show, that's how this whole thing started, lol. To me the SRT8 Challenger had the nicest seating.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Did you get one yet ?

[STANMAN]

I still haven't even decided if I want a new car yet, much less which one, lol.

[Flicktitty]

I still haven't even decided if I want a new car yet, much less which one, lol.

your just pissed they don't have porno red interior as an option on the wrx :goof

[1320PNY]

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5992&stc=1&d=1235673963

Dude, NO Pickup required! SATURN BABY!!! Help GM out of it's funk!

[Nick]

I still haven't even decided if I want a new car yet, much less which one, lol.

Save your money, hard times are comin'.

Famous words of my grandfather.

[Prince Valiant]

I still haven't even decided if I want a new car yet, much less which one, lol.Not to tell you how to spend your money, but it IS an option just to pick up a sensible used daily driver and enjoy your toy during the summer...

[HRSEPLA]

Save your money, hard times are comin'.

Famous words of my grandfather.

Wise words, I would keep saving...:thumbsup

[STANMAN]

Not to tell you how to spend your money, but it IS an option just to pick up a sensible used daily driver and enjoy your toy during the summer...

Yep, that's where I am looking now.

[osiris152006]

so then is the awd system under them worth the extra 6 grand?


ARE YOU SERIOUS??? First of all yes with simple exhaust or retune the 09 wrx's are easily into the 13's, the STi's run 13.5 stock. Wrx run like a 14.2 stock. You obviously dont know anything about awd or Subarus. Lets see Subarus have 5 star safey ratings, they handle much better than Cobalts, good in the snow, Just like yippiedoodle said they hold their resale value 10x better than a shit hole cobalt or Gm could ever dream of!! And just like Flicktitty said with a good driver who can launch well and very minimal mods are into the 12's!! YOU REALLY HAVE TO REALIZE COBALTS ARE JUNK, just cuz they throw a turbo on them does not make them qualify as good performance cars!! and how can you even say "how does a subaru qualify as a performacne car??"" Obviously you have never seen rally racing, Hello Subarus are all over that!! The STi has been out for like 5 years now, why would they put 300hp, a stiff ass suspension and tires that are meant for road racing??? Bottom line the shitbolt may be cheaper but the saying goes You get what you pay for!! and for like 4 grand less you will infact get a POS that you payed 24k will be worth 12k the second it leaves the lot!!

[88Nightmare]

meh, you're welcome to your opinion. subarus really dont do anything for me. their styling, their build quality, their interior, their performance, their prices. thats just me. I wont buy one. if you like em, then great.

[osiris152006]

Did you go to the auto show yet? There are a bunch of cars and trucks there that might be worth your attention. You can walk from one to the next comparing. Just none of them have the battery hooked up so you can't play with any of the gadgets.

The fit and finish of these vehicles is just so pathetic. The amount of plastic flashing on the cars and trucks I saw was just plain embarrassing. You'd think it was 1987 or something.

I did notice that Ford's pickup interior (2010) was much nicer than GM's. Kind of square like a 94 Voyager inside but overall I think it is nicer. Lightyears ahead of Dodge though. In fact, I saw one redeeming feature of the Dodge, the bedsides with storage. And that's it. Ford's seats were more comfortable also. The GMT900 seats are a step in the wrong direction for GM compared to the GMT800. Too bad Ford's Powertrain is ten years ancient.

It's amazing that the Acadia/Enclave/Outlook/Traverse are so much nicer inside than any of the pickups. In fact, I think it's nicer than the Escalade.

The Subarus and Hondas were definitely shitboxes. I even heard one 20something woman say "that's a nice car if I wanted a tiny car that's way overpriced". The Lexus' were getting no love either which probably explains why GM sold a thousand more Caddies last month than Toyota sold Lexus'.

Best seats I sat in all night:
Z06 Corvette. Even my fatass fits so comfy in them.


WOW, you gotta be kidding me!! You honestly say those are good quality interiors!! I can almost rip the dash apart just by pulling on it!! That is the cheapest quality plastic ive ever seen. Did you not notice on the Caddys at the auto show that not one of them did anything line up on the front of the car?? The hood fenders and headlights are all over the place and the grills almost fall off. Sounds like a good quality car to me..... NOT And as to your comment off a woman saying something about honda and subaru first of all it was a WOMAN!! and secondly a Honda or toyota cost the same amount as a G6,cobalt,Grand prix etc and you dont always get keyless entry with Gm models!!. Why would i pay $22k for a G6 and not getting keyless entry and get a car thats will be worth 10k in 3 years!! You guys just gotta come to grips that Gm,Ford and Chrysler will be no more soon enough and Imports will take over....Lets see Hmmm they cant get people to buy their cars even when they do super discounts and 0% financing, must be some reason why?? People realize they are junk.

[osiris152006]

meh, you're welcome to your opinion. subarus really dont do anything for me. their styling, their build quality, their interior, their performance, their prices. thats just me. I wont buy one. if you like em, then great.

I already made it known on page 5 that I dont like Subaru, only reason I am sticking up for them is because I know quite a bit about them since i work on them everyday and you Gm loyal people are never open to anything that deals with an import because you think a domestic is the only way to go.........When you dont even know anything about them. The second you here a name besides GM you dont give it a ****ing chance.

[WhatsADSM]

Stanman:

I echo prince valiant's points about the DD. But if you are set on the either the Subi or the truck.. I'm a little partial but the Subi is a GREAT bang for the buck!


ARE YOU SERIOUS??? First of all yes with simple exhaust or retune the 09 wrx's are easily into the 13's, the STi's run 13.5 stock. Wrx run like a 14.2 stock. You obviously dont know anything about awd or Subarus. Lets see Subarus have 5 star safey ratings, they handle much better than Cobalts, good in the snow, Just like yippiedoodle said they hold their resale value 10x better than a shit hole cobalt or Gm could ever dream of!! And just like Flicktitty said with a good driver who can launch well and very minimal mods are into the 12's!! YOU REALLY HAVE TO REALIZE COBALTS ARE JUNK, just cuz they throw a turbo on them does not make them qualify as good performance cars!! and how can you even say "how does a subaru qualify as a performacne car??"" Obviously you have never seen rally racing, Hello Subarus are all over that!! The STi has been out for like 5 years now, why would they put 300hp, a stiff ass suspension and tires that are meant for road racing??? Bottom line the shitbolt may be cheaper but the saying goes You get what you pay for!! and for like 4 grand less you will infact get a POS that you payed 24k will be worth 12k the second it leaves the lot!!

I think the new WRX is a great deal, and I think it is a great car but I'm just going to come out and say this.
You are clearly ignorant as hell.. have you even looked at any specs on the cobalt ss or even been inside of one? Or did you just look at one and stop at the badge on the front. You are the one that needs to REALIZE something:

I'd bet the SS/TC Cobalt walks all over the WRX on a road coarse. And it would probably be a damn good race in the 1/4.

The cobalt has BETTER hp/lb ratings, it has a FASTER slolam speed, HIGHER skid pad... and of course costs less.

New WRX = great bang for the buck
Cobalt SS = great bang for the buck

[osiris152006]

Stanman:

I echo prince valiant's points about the DD. But if you are set on the either the Subi or the truck.. I'm a little partial but the Subi is a GREAT bang for the buck!



I think the new WRX is a great deal, and I think it is a great car but I'm just going to come out and say this.
You are clearly ignorant as hell.. have you even looked at any specs on the cobalt ss or even been inside of one? Or did you just look at one and stop at the badge on the front. You are the one that needs to REALIZE something:

I'd bet the SS/TC Cobalt walks all over the WRX on a road coarse. And it would probably be a damn good race in the 1/4.

The cobalt has BETTER hp/lb ratings, it has a FASTER slolam speed, HIGHER skid pad... and of course costs less.

New WRX = great bang for the buck
Cobalt SS = great bang for the buck

You can come out and say whatever the Hell you want to me!! I dont know any of you and I could give two shits what you think about me or my opinions. I have looked at the specs and driven them......I dont care what you or Motor trend says about them they are JUNK. Idk if some guy has a Geo metro and it can beat High end cars, that doesnt make it a good car. If you feel like a real man or a hardass after beating someone in your Cobalt go get one, personally I wouldnt wanna ever buy either of these cars..... He was asking for feedback of which car to get and I vote for the Wrx. Either way I am done arguing about this, cuz its not important. Maybe I am ignorant, BUT the rest of the members that hate on some imports that outperform some domestics are JUST AS ignorant............:wow:wow

[wrath]

ARE YOU SERIOUS??? First of all yes with simple exhaust or retune the 09 wrx's are easily into the 13's, the STi's run 13.5 stock. Wrx run like a 14.2 stock. You obviously dont know anything about awd or Subarus. Lets see Subarus have 5 star safey ratings, they handle much better than Cobalts, good in the snow, Just like yippiedoodle said they hold their resale value 10x better than a shit hole cobalt or Gm could ever dream of!! And just like Flicktitty said with a good driver who can launch well and very minimal mods are into the 12's!! YOU REALLY HAVE TO REALIZE COBALTS ARE JUNK, just cuz they throw a turbo on them does not make them qualify as good performance cars!! and how can you even say "how does a subaru qualify as a performacne car??"" Obviously you have never seen rally racing, Hello Subarus are all over that!! The STi has been out for like 5 years now, why would they put 300hp, a stiff ass suspension and tires that are meant for road racing??? Bottom line the shitbolt may be cheaper but the saying goes You get what you pay for!! and for like 4 grand less you will infact get a POS that you payed 24k will be worth 12k the second it leaves the lot!!

The Cobalt SS/TC runs 14.1@102 bone stock.

Both the Impreza and Cobalt get 4 and 5 star ratings. Foresters can't be all that safe because I know two people with broken femurs from getting into accidents with them.

They also (as of right now) seem to be holding their value the same (percentage wise). I'm not sure how long that is going to play out because you are right... domestics don't hold their value like imports do.

As someone who has been around rally racing a lot... I can safely say that any rally car tends to fall apart. And Subarus fall apart with the best of 'em.

But I think WRX STis are neat. I'd like to have one someday.



WOW, you gotta be kidding me!! You honestly say those are good quality interiors!! I can almost rip the dash apart just by pulling on it!! That is the cheapest quality plastic ive ever seen. Did you not notice on the Caddys at the auto show that not one of them did anything line up on the front of the car?? The hood fenders and headlights are all over the place and the grills almost fall off. Sounds like a good quality car to me..... NOT And as to your comment off a woman saying something about honda and subaru first of all it was a WOMAN!! and secondly a Honda or toyota cost the same amount as a G6,cobalt,Grand prix etc and you dont always get keyless entry with Gm models!!. Why would i pay $22k for a G6 and not getting keyless entry and get a car thats will be worth 10k in 3 years!! You guys just gotta come to grips that Gm,Ford and Chrysler will be no more soon enough and Imports will take over....Lets see Hmmm they cant get people to buy their cars even when they do super discounts and 0% financing, must be some reason why?? People realize they are junk.

Did you know those dashes go together by pushing them in? I can pull the entire dash apart in a GMT800 without a screwdriver.

Did you notice the Genesis 2 door lacked bodylines that matched and the interior was held together by double-sided tape? Supposed to be a nice car...

Did you see the junky interior on the VWs and Hondas?

You always get keyless entry on GM vehicles unless you get the 1SV package. If you get that, you also don't get cruise.

My 2007 Pontiac G6 stickered for $21,000 and came with the 3.5L V6, 17" alloys, cruise, REMOTE START, et cetera.

[T-Bag]

Junky interior on the VW's? Are you f*cking kidding me? VW has some of the best interior build quality in the world nowdays. Holy christ people get off the god damn bandwagon. A blind man could tell you just by FEEL that VW interiors are far superior.

Just because it doesn't have fancy (read: cheesy)f*cking gadgets and vents doesn't mean its junky. Feel the plastic of a VW compared to any american car. Wiggle any plastic piece and tell me that the VW interiors are junky. Cadillac's interior compared to similarly priced luxury vehicles made me want to never even CONSIDER one of those piece's of garbage. My grand prix had a more solid interior FFS!

The Cobalt/Cobalt SS is a junk car. GM tried to polish a turd. Ok, its quick and can turn good for a front wheel drive car....but its styling and build quality is a JOKE.

[2006wrxtr]

******* A its worth it.. it makes it nice for the track, the street, and you can drive it all year around. just get over the fact that cobalts suck dude..

No it's not. A stock Civic Si will beat the subie around a Autocross course pretty easy. They understeer horribly.

Good street car and bad roads or winter but on dry pavement they are just not that great.

I like mine in a straight line and in the wet. Hell with a 3" turbo back exhaust and a tune I ran 13.30's.

My third gear broke, while my Gf was driving it and SOA won't cover it under warranty. 2k to rebuild it. There reason, must have been launched in 3rd or down shifted at to high a RPM.

My GF couldn't launch the car if she tried.

Screw Subaru...

[1320PNY]

1995 Subaru Legacy LSi Sedan (Auto, cruise, power roof, leather, windows) $7K used in 2001 w/68K miles on the ODO. Since then...

1.) Set of 4 Mulit-Mile tires $200.00 [when purchased]
2.) Timing belt $325 [at 100K done at Subaru in GB]
3.) Brakes (rotors and pads) $235 [slotted, drilled R1Concepts]
4.) Fuel filter(s) $13 [every 50K]
5.) Plug(s) (NGK basics work best) $1.99 ea. [sitting in garage]
6.) Another set of Multi-Mile tires [138K on the ODO]

Car gets 26MPG all day on mid-grade. Range is 250 miles on the tank. ALL factory options still working flawlessly. Today during lunch the ODO was 168,113 miles.

I plan on driving this 2 more years and then maybe going to get a "new" 2000ish Legacy used.

I will have bought and paid for my S197 by the time I need another DD. I figure a car that is paid off and runs long enough to pay off the next toy is perfect.

[STANMAN]

FWIW-Car and Driver got a better time out of the WRX than the WRX STI 0-60 and 1/4 mile. They stated it was due to the 5 speed over the 6 speed and lighter weight.

[88Nightmare]

gotta love car and driver. biased as a motherfucker.




so what if VW has nice interior...... it doesn't help their over abundance of electrical issues

[nismodave]

Save your money and get a cheap Minivan, Bob. You have a kid now.:)

[STANMAN]

Save your money and get a cheap Minivan, Bob. You have a kid now.:)

We have a Pacifica already:thumbsup

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Ah minivan's, another import dominated market and hence the reason GM is basically out of the minivan market.
Love that Nissan Quest and Honday Odyssey. Yota Sienna ? eh scary sludge woes.

Just get something already the suspense is killing folks.
And arguing plastic grade qualities. :thumbsup

[flyin_blue_egg]

don't know if anyone has said this but go to nasioc.com it's a subie website

[Prince Valiant]

gotta love car and driver. biased as a motherfucker.
Yes Mike. YOU'RE the very definition of "objective;" Car&Driver are the "biased" ones, lol.

[tommyt5078]

FWIW-Car and Driver got a better time out of the WRX than the WRX STI 0-60 and 1/4 mile. They stated it was due to the 5 speed over the 6 speed and lighter weight.


I could this if it's 09' vrs 09' or 08' STI vrs 09' WRX.


The 09' WRX will not bet a 04-06 STi in the 1/4........

[88Nightmare]

Yes Mike. YOU'RE the very definition of "objective;" Car&Driver are the "biased" ones, lol.

hey I never said I wasn't, however no one is taking, nor am I asking anyone to take my comments and opinions as truth.

[STANMAN]

I could this if it's 09' vrs 09' or 08' STI vrs 09' WRX.


The 09' WRX will not bet a 04-06 STi in the 1/4........

It was 09 vs. 09 from what I remember. I know the WRX STi was the ugly new hatch style in the pics.

[T-Bag]

gotta love car and driver. biased as a motherfucker.




so what if VW has nice interior...... it doesn't help their over abundance of electrical issues

You must be stuck in the 90's still

Don't even talk modern electrical issues if you own a 2003-2006 GM truck. How about the entire passenger/driver side door functions going completely out because the control modules suck ass?

Yours may not have had it, but then again not every VW had electrical issues back in the 90's either. Not that I'm a fan of 90's veedubs.

[88Nightmare]

You must be stuck in the 90's still

Don't even talk modern electrical issues if you own a 2003-2006 GM truck. How about the entire passenger/driver side door functions going completely out because the control modules suck ass?

Yours may not have had it, but then again not every VW had electrical issues back in the 90's either. Not that I'm a fan of 90's veedubs.

I never heard of that issue with the GM trucks. Mine didn't have any issues, 63k miles. Sold it last weekend though, but nevertheless. Everyone else I know with this same generation never had any issues like that. I can instantly think of 6 people that own this gen truck.


And im not talking about VW electrical issues back in the 90's. Im talking present day. Last year I test drove one of those new GTI. Half the dash lighting wasnt working, and both front windows would not roll down. The power driver seat also didnt work as I recall. The salesman just shrugged it off :rolf He must be used to those kind of comments