Saturn, Pontiac to be no more?

[Greg@GLD]

Yikes...

http://www.leftlanenews.com/general-motors-saturn-pontiac-viability-plan.html

[xxtremeteam]

wow, crazy dont know what else to say

[Karps TA]

The more and more I see from GM, the more I think my alligence to them is not worth keeping.

[animal]

Saturn is junk anyways. Good riddence. I do feel for the pontiac crowd though. I'd be a sad panda if my fav brand were eliminated. Though there's a slim chance of that happening.

[pOrk]

The new Saturns are not junk, its too bad to see them go since they finally started getting the brand turned around.

[Chadwich]

No more G8's or new GTO's.
Thats bull crap. FML

[Josepy]

No more G8's or new GTO's.
Thats bull crap. FML

New GTO's havent been made for a couple of years already.

[TheRX7Project]

Honestly, if you've been keeping up with automotive industry news AT ALL this is not a surprise.

And besides, what did Saturn or Pontiac make that another GM brand didn't make the same thing of, rebodied? It's no real loss.

[Karps TA]

Some of us prefer the rebody's style. I think outside of Caddy, Saturn was finally making the best looking cars of GM.

[Rocket Power]

They should ax GMC too,do you need to support a division whose difference is a grille?. Have chevy and caddy and I guess buick since they sell well in china. But I stopped being a mostly gm guy about 5 years ago, I like fords too, hence why I bought a F150 and not a chevy. I like old gm's but they haven't made anything I want in years

[PB86MCSS]

I thought they would of axed Buick here, kept it alive in China and wherever else it sells well. Not surprised by Saturn but kind of with Pontiac. The G8 might be going but they can "turn it" into a Chevy or Buick without much of a problem if they still want to make cars like that, which I hope they do. But as the article says they will keep certain Pontiac models and just sell them at other dealerships...so the name doesn't appear to be going away completely. Would of been nice to at least do that with Olds too, IMO.

[Crawlin]

technically...

they could roll the GMC trucks into the caddy line a bit more since they already have the escalades. Just make a regular 1500 series truck in the caddy version and you've cut out the bullshit out.

saturn had some decent cars. i'd actually like to seem them sell off that brand to someone that would know how to run it instead of just wiping it off the map. But buick needs to go, and I could see pontiac going for sure. nothing but the G8 in that lineup IMHO

[88Nightmare]

I don't picture buick getting the ax. too many brand loyal people to buick.


saturns really made a turn around but I think it was way too late in the game to do it. And the new saturns definitely ARE NOT junk

[03CVLX]

The rumors I have read for Pontiac say that only certain Niche models will remain. Its said that Pontiac may be sold through Chevy stores, I would Imagine those Niche Models would be the G8 and maybe the G6 :confused

Im sure all this info will change 9 times before anything actually goes away so it will be interesting to watch.

Also on the Chrysler side of the Fence. The Aspen/Durango are dead along with the Pt Cruiser Hardtop.

[PureSound15]

I would Imagine those Niche Models would be the G8 and maybe the G6 :confused


You think so? I guess I didn't realize that the G8 was selling that well - of course that's limited to me citing the number of times I've seen one on the road vs a G6 (regardless of years in production).

I think we think they'd keep the G8 just because it's an awareness of muscle products vs reality in the market as a whole.

[Voodoo Chick]

It's sad.....I guess this means there will never be a new Firebird, ever. What a bummer........

[-stew-]

I don't picture buick getting the ax. too many brand loyal people to buick.



Buick sales have been declining at the same rate their customers are dying. And that's a fact. As the old joke goes: What's the average age of a Buick buyer? Dead...

[STANMAN]

Buick sales have been declining at the same rate their customers are dying. And that's a fact. As the old joke goes: What's the average age of a Buick buyer? Dead...

It's the #1 brand in China though. No lie.

[-stew-]

It's the #1 brand in China though. No lie.

I concur. The Buicks will prolly get rebadged and promoted as entry level Caddies for the Azn sales market. Cad's are hot over their, too.

[Chadwich]

New GTO's havent been made for a couple of years already.

I thought they were going to re-re-do the GTO in a new model in 2011-12.
Someone had told me that, and in my ignorance I had believed them.
FML

[wrath]

GM sells more Buicks than Ford sells Lincoln, Mercury, and Volvo combined.

GM is usually a hundred thousand off on Ford for fullsize pickups with the Silverado. But GMC usually sells 40% of what Chevrolet sells.

It doesn't cost GM, or anyone for that matter, much to build another brand. All the shit is outsourced and no one really gives you a volume discount anymore. The difficult part is the management, marketing, and selling part. Saturn has the most horrible dealership experience I've ever been involved in. Saturn has finally been turned around but they still can't get anything but white women to buy them.

I'd be surprised if Pontiac changed much. They'll likely lose all their non-cars though. Buick will probably stay just like they are.

I wouldn't be surprised if Saturn no longer exists as a brand but the cars will exist, pretty much unchanged except the badge in another brand such as Pontiac or Chevrolet.

[Flicktitty]

The new Saturns are not junk, its too bad to see them go since they finally started getting the brand turned around.

X2.....

serioulsy why KEEP Buick AND caddy.

IMO...

Run Chevy,Caddy,Pontiac, And just transfer a buick and saturn or two over to the Chevy/caddy/pontiac.

i mean some Buick's could be "base" caddilac, Some of the Saturns could be Pontiacs or Chevys...

but i don't care, they have nothing i want anyway.

[ffvetteman]

Saturns are not junk! The 91 SL2 5-speed in blue/black is the hottest car ever made!!!

[animal]

Lol didn't know there are so many saturn lovers in the muscle car forum. Seems I've hit a nerve while degrading an already crappy car. :goof

[DocDave]

Doesn't surprise me too much. Both those brands have been brought for elimination before. If you read the entire article, some of the Pontiac cars will remain around, just being sold at a Chevrolet dealership instead.

GM is slowly becoming just another car manufacturer. I lost my GM loyalty a few years ago.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Bad loans for a bad company subsidized by taxpayers.
The USA subsidizes food so some natives don't go hungry and get restless, this is just another form I guess. "Minimum Car" as El Rushbo calls it.

IMO badge engineering is dumb no matter who does it GMC, Mercury or whoever else. ChryCo had enough sense to kill Plymouth. The trailblazer truck was marketed under 6 different brands in North America, for what reason ? It defies logic.
At what point does GM become profitable again ? I would guess at 40% of current capacity.
Many folks like a Honda or a Yota and those folks claim those brands are more reliable and more American than GM, who can argue with them ?

[Chalky]

I saw the Saturn deal coming. Really surprised to see Buick stay. For a while, the Buick was nothing more than a GM version of theTaurus for the over 70 crowd!.

Makes me wonder if GM has a plan or just another idea.

[Rocket Power]

GM sells more Buicks than Ford sells Lincoln, Mercury, and Volvo combined.

It doesn't cost GM, or anyone for that matter, much to build another brand. Ford isn't at the Gov't with it's hand out, GM and Chrysler are, so if it takes dropping a couple divisions to make themselves more efficient that what they should do, I still think they should drop GMC too. What does Pontiac sell anymore besides rebadged cars with bird beaks on them(matrix,holdens,cobalts)? Saturn cars could get rolled into Chevy if need be.

[Rocket Power]

ChryCo had enough sense to kill Plymouth.
I knew Plymouth was done when they couldn't even get a different name for the neon, it was bad enough their other cars were identical to Dodge but at least they changed names:rolf

[Chalky]

In the 50's/60's, GM could and did market each brand for specific demographics. Start you out in a Chevy and move you through the different brands as your income/stature changed. Today, I will assume Chevy is still entry level vehicle and Caddy is epitomy of sucess still. Not sure where Bucik, Pontiac and Saturn fit in anymore.

GMC just seems to be an upgrade for those that do not want Tahoe and Suburbans. I really do not see a need for the GMC label either.

[88Nightmare]

Lol didn't know there are so many saturn lovers in the muscle car forum. Seems I've hit a nerve while degrading an already crappy car. :goof

A Saturn Sky is no different then a Pontiac Solstice, but with a different body.

A Saturn Aura is no different then a Pontiac G6, or new Chevy Malibu. Only difference is body.


So how can the Saturn Aura be junk, but the G6 and Malibu are good? :goof

[Reverend Cooper]

does it matter GM as a whole will be defunct soon,or bought out by Toyota

[88Nightmare]

yeah they are becoming more and more bland by the day, they might as well just give in and sell out to toyota... they are becoming just like em

[wrath]

IMO badge engineering is dumb no matter who does it GMC, Mercury or whoever else. ChryCo had enough sense to kill Plymouth. The trailblazer truck was marketed under 6 different brands in North America, for what reason ? It defies logic.
At what point does GM become profitable again ? I would guess at 40% of current capacity.
Many folks like a Honda or a Yota and those folks claim those brands are more reliable and more American than GM, who can argue with them ?

It would be dumb if the manufacturers still made all their own parts. But they don't. It doesn't cost them anything to buy 3,000 of one kind of widget and 3,000 of some other kind of widget that is similar as compared to 6,000 of just one widget. Now if you were single sourcing you might be screwed.

GMT360: Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada, Rainier, Saab 9-7x, and Isuzu Ascender
The underpinnings were used in the EXT versions and the Envoy XUV. Oh, and the SSR.

The only one they lost money on was the SSR.

Reliability is more based on perception these days. It's all about the marketing. Now that Toyota is on top they're starting to falter. Who the fsck ever heard of breaking camshafts before the idiotForce V8?

I think they should all go down to one brand. Scions are riced out Toyotas, Lexus' are polished turds of Toyotas. Acuras are what you get when you try to avoid the "beige accord" reputation of Honda. Infiniti? That's just a less reliable Nissan with leather seats that tear just out of warranty.

Or maybe Mazda should bring back the Amati brand.


Ford isn't at the Gov't with it's hand out, GM and Chrysler are, so if it takes dropping a couple divisions to make themselves more efficient that what they should do, I still think they should drop GMC too. What does Pontiac sell anymore besides rebadged cars with bird beaks on them(matrix,holdens,cobalts)? Saturn cars could get rolled into Chevy if need be.

Ford doesn't own anything. What is there to leverage against?

If you've ever been in a Saab 9-3, Pontiac G6, Malibu (both current and previous generation), and Saturn Aura... you'd see they are COMPLETELY different vehicles except where shit bolts to the car.

But yes, they should consolidate or at least share more key parts between them all.

[TheRX7Project]

Ford owns a very, very strong company actually, who does well in world markets.

Ford Europe.

Ford's gameplan? Bring Ford Europe to the US, and solidify Ford as a single world entity- not a crappy US company who sells great cars everywhere else but the US. Maybe the Focus phenomenon enlightened them?

[Poncho]

I thought they were going to re-re-do the GTO in a new model in 2011-12.
Someone had told me that, and in my ignorance I had believed them.
FML

actually there was supposed to be a 2008 GTO, coming right in or after the G8 was originally supposed to be there. Then Holden made a coupe concept a year and a half ago for a 2-door coupe on the G8's platform.

Well you know whats happened all around here. I've lost faith in the camaro period. 47k for a loaded SS? give me a fvckin' break.

[lordairgtar]

Pretty soon, all we will ever see is one car being sold. A bland mini-van type of car called simply "Car"

[RanJer]

yeah they are becoming more and more bland by the day, they might as well just give in and sell out to toyota... they are becoming just like em

If they sell out to Toyota, will Toyota continue the bullshit and glitter?

[sdb300zx]

I saw this coming a long time ago. Sad, but what can you do? :(

[88Nightmare]

If they sell out to Toyota, will Toyota continue the bullshit and glitter?

perhaps. If they do, stew will still find some inane useless argument that doesn't even make sense.

[88Nightmare]

GMT360: Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada, Rainier, Saab 9-7x, and Isuzu Ascender. The underpinnings were used in the EXT versions and the Envoy XUV. Oh, and the SSR.

Such a successful platform. I can't go anywhere without seeing either a Trailblazer or Envoy... Hell, even Bravadas and Rainiers are quite common. I haven't seen the 9-7x off of a dealer lot, but I have seen a small handful of Ascenders around.

[animal]

So how can the Saturn Aura be junk, but the G6 and Malibu are good? :goof

I never said or meant to imply that those were good cars either... I just didn't call them junk. :durr

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Breaking cams and cranks in general was a mainstay at the General in the early to mid 80's weather it be the 350 diesel job, the HT 4100 Trash. Even the 6.2/6.5 was a crank breaker. Furthermore their were many soft camed SBC where the cam lobes jusy wore away.

Ford and the joke of an engine the 3.8 headgasket eater. I have heard of headgasket problems in new GM FWD'ers and let us not forget dexcool garbage and its associated problems like intake gasket leaks or plugged heater cores.

I must admit GM seems clueless and should not be bailed out but for christs sakes who cares what a car looks like if it doesnt sell ? Oh I forget car folks.....
GM isnt in business to build car guy cars they are in business to make money, they failed BIGTIME.
Give GM another $14 billion ? For what so they can stay open another 2 months ?
At what point is the decision made to cut the losses and let'er go ? 100 billion ? 200 billion ? I'm sure Gm could saty open forever if we keeping feeding that BLOATED PIG.

Stick a fork in GM, They're done. MI is done. A majority of Americans like cars built in Alabam and Tennesee better.