If you've thought about joining now might be the time.

[GTSLOW]

Just got word that next week will more than likely be the end for Prior Service, GEDS, people who score 50 or below on the ASVAB, and large sign on bonuses. The way the economy is going they figure more "quality" will come in. Also if you think life's better out than in you can stay out. Also stuff like DUI's and minor drug charges will also probably be added to the list.

Just an FYI. Also the Army being the most lenient on that kind of stuff I'm sure the other services will be even worse.


BTW an HSED or HSGED is the same as a GED, it's not a HS Diploma.



I don't agree with it, but it's not my rules.

[That_Guy]

this is good info with my asvab score i may join if i cant get a job after i get my degree finished up. but by that time i will probably have to take the asvab again by then

[GTSLOW]

When did you take it?

[Prince Valiant]

No way, not now man. Obama is going to make me my job at McDonalds get more better benefits according to his plan!

[srt4eh]

i actually scored better on the asvab the 2nd time I took it....so that might work out well for u ;)

[Al]

Obama is going to make me my job at McDonalds get more better benefits according to his plan!

Engrish?


this is good info with my asvab score i may join if i cant get a job after i get my degree finished up. but by that time i will probably have to take the asvab again by then

What is your degree?

[Breecher_7]

I do agree with this! Other then the prior service part...

They should be more picky about who they let in, god knows the asvab waiver retards really arnt worth much. And they are right about because the economy tanking the quality of enlistee's will go down as people will be looking for a stable paycheck and 3hots and a cott.

Ive highly considering going back to active duty on many occasions, there is alot I miss about it. But then reality sets in that in my line of work I AM going back to Iraq or Afganistan immediatly if I do and Ive had enough of that.

I say good for the military, crack down on who you let in. We dont need any more morons or lazy mother fuckers that do nothing but bitch about there jobs or count the days till they get out. But as I said, prior service with honorable discharge and no NJP's on there record should be allowed to re-enlist at any time.

[Crawlin]

Just as a generic question... what is the maximum age you can be a "fresh" enlistee?

[Breecher_7]

Just as a generic question... what is the maximum age you can be a "fresh" enlistee?

Nan?

Im almost positive its in the mid 30's. 35ish?

[srt4eh]

i thought it was raised to like 38 or something...dont quote me though.,.I'll wait for Rubicon to answer

[Prince Valiant]

No way, not now man. Obama is going to make me my job at McDonalds get more better benefits according to his plan!Engrish?

Me talking to Obama:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WSKgivP-c-E&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WSKgivP-c-E&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I'm taken' care of.

[wrath]

What are the going wages/sign-on bonus? They're cutting out the people best suited for service. It's not like a private citizen that is ambitious and intelligent is going to trade away years of their life for Cousins Subs wages and an education no one wants to hire you for unless they REALLY want to serve their country.

[PonyKiller87]

What are the going wages/sign-on bonus? They're cutting out the people best suited for service. It's not like a private citizen that is ambitious and intelligent is going to trade away years of their life for Cousins Subs wages and an education no one wants to hire you for unless they REALLY want to serve their country.

Do you have any clue what your talking about? Sorry but that was just a very ignorant and disrespectful thing to say.

[That_Guy]

When did you take it?

fall 2006

[That_Guy]

Engrish?



What is your degree?

architectural drafting and construction technology i have to pull my asvab score but i believe i got a 92 i have to look forsure.

[wrath]

Do you have any clue what your talking about? Sorry but that was just a very ignorant and disrespectful thing to say.

Which part is ignorant and which part is disrespectful? Further, how so?

You aren't going to join the military to get rich. So, if you're an ambitious and intelligent person that doesn't REALLY want to serve your country, are you going to take a job in the military where you get paid less?

[Rocket Power]

Which part is ignorant and which part is disrespectful? Further, how so?

You aren't going to join the military to get rich. So, if you're an ambitious and intelligent person that doesn't REALLY want to serve your country, are you going to take a job in the military where you get paid less?Just a guess ...that you are implying that people who join the military are dumb with no ambition?

[mrz28M6]

we were taking 41 year olds as of 2 years ago!

[Al]

According to a few people I know, the military is for the misfits of society.

I always thought, and still believe, the military was for people who love America. You really don't hear people saying "I hate America, I want to enlist."

[Cryptic]

38 plus prior service years.

so I was in for 4 years so I can go back up to 42 pending you pass a physical

[srt4eh]

Just a guess ...that you are implying that people who join the military are dumb with no ambition?

woohoo! I'm dumb with no ambition and proud of it...or wait? Am I? :goof

[srt4eh]

and for the record....I'm getting paid more than I got paid working at Target or Home Depot....but thats not the point

[GTSLOW]

Nan?

Im almost positive its in the mid 30's. 35ish?

It's either 40 or 42 now. :wooo We had a 40 year old guy join as an 88M for 2 years and grabbed a 20k sign on bonus and the GI bill.

[GTSLOW]

What are the going wages/sign-on bonus? They're cutting out the people best suited for service. It's not like a private citizen that is ambitious and intelligent is going to trade away years of their life for Cousins Subs wages and an education no one wants to hire you for unless they REALLY want to serve their country.

I never knew cousin gave full medical and dental. Didn't know cousins provided 100% free meals (granted they can be terrible at times). No idea cousins gave free housing and dorm rooms. Didn't know cousins paid for you to go to college while you worked there (almost every military base has a decent sized education center where you can go for free as long as you don't fail).

Let's see I've gotten job offers to work at Stewart and Stevenson, Oshkosh (very recent), VT Griffin, L3 Communications, which is just a few to boot. Schneider trucking has a Soldier to Driver program where they'll even help you get your own rig.

Some of the most recent bonuses I've seen:

HS Senior 4year enlistment $36k + MGIB. <- truck driver
HS Grad 3year enlistment $25k, ACF, & MGIB. <- computer programmer

We've been told within two weeks the big bonuses will be close to gone. Oh and as breecher knows EOD is a HOT job, that one nets 40k for 4 years plus a ton of other things.

[Prince Valiant]

What's funny is that the military features more individuals as a percentage of the whole with doctorates, Master degrees, and college degrees than does the general population as a whole...

[Breecher_7]

Which part is ignorant and which part is disrespectful? Further, how so?

You aren't going to join the military to get rich. So, if you're an ambitious and intelligent person that doesn't REALLY want to serve your country, are you going to take a job in the military where you get paid less?

I was making over 60K a year when i got out. Fail to see how that was bad money. Most of my friends dont make that as civilians.

[Breecher_7]

I never knew cousin gave full medical and dental. Didn't know cousins provided 100% free meals (granted they can be terrible at times). No idea cousins gave free housing and dorm rooms. Didn't know cousins paid for you to go to college while you worked there (almost every military base has a decent sized education center where you can go for free as long as you don't fail).

Let's see I've gotten job offers to work at Stewart and Stevenson, Oshkosh (very recent), VT Griffin, L3 Communications, which is just a few to boot. Schneider trucking has a Soldier to Driver program where they'll even help you get your own rig.

Some of the most recent bonuses I've seen:

HS Senior 4year enlistment $36k + MGIB. <- truck driver
HS Grad 3year enlistment $25k, ACF, & MGIB. <- computer programmer

We've been told within two weeks the big bonuses will be close to gone. Oh and as breecher knows EOD is a HOT job, that one nets 40k for 4 years plus a ton of other things.

:rolf A hot job that no sane person would ever want! :thumbsup The signing bonus was 60K when I went through, didnt get it till the completion of EOD school though and it was half up front and the rest paid in a annual ammount over your enlistment. I was offered 60K to re-enlist as well...

[70 cutlass 442]

Not to piss in anyones corn flakes, but i see 100% where Wrath is comming from. I know so many people who joined just because that was their last resort. Not that there is anyhting wrong with anyone who wants to join, but i fail to see what the huge attraction is, especially if they will no be cutting many sign on bonus's and otehr encentives..... and you arguement for free health care/food/housing sucks.... have you ever been to a VA? im sure that on base housing is great.... you can get the same housing for $600 a month in a nice suburb. and the food..... you cant be serious to say that its good food, ive herd it being compared to jail food on ocassions.

[wrath]

Just a guess ...that you are implying that people who join the military are dumb with no ambition?

No, that's not the case at all. I'm saying that an ambitious and intelligent person can make FAR MORE than the military has to offer. And you aren't essentially in the military 24/7.

If you do the math, it doesn't pay to be in the military unless you're going to be a 20 years and out person.

By requiring someone to basically have a decent ACT score (by limiting who can join based on aptitude and ability) they are essentially ruling out people that would be GREAT military while not necessarily being the greatest student and get a job at M&I Bank selling securities.

[GTSLOW]

I'm not sure how this turned into a pissing contest when I was mearly trying to give a heads up to peeps w/ GEDs and prior service. Not even trying to recruit anyone since I'm in Madison.

Not trying to piss in anyones corn flakes. BUT if you haven't served and your talking shit, then you can shut the fuck up.

:thumbsup

[GTSLOW]

What's funny is that the military features more individuals as a percentage of the whole with doctorates, Master degrees, and college degrees than does the general population as a whole...

10000% true!

[Breecher_7]

Not to piss in anyones corn flakes, but i see 100% where Wrath is comming from. I know so many people who joined just because that was their last resort. Not that there is anyhting wrong with anyone who wants to join, but i fail to see what the huge attraction is, especially if they will no be cutting many sign on bonus's and otehr encentives..... and you arguement for free health care/food/housing sucks.... have you ever been to a VA? im sure that on base housing is great.... you can get the same housing for $600 a month in a nice suburb. and the food..... you cant be serious to say that its good food, ive herd it being compared to jail food on ocassions.

You obviously dont know shit...

First off, I was making nearly 60K a year when I got out, this was after 6 years. Do you make that now? :confused

Second, The VA is actually a great hospital, ive been in there a few times in the last couple years and the car was phenominal. And the base hospitals are usually even better.

Third, As far as food is concerned, I cant speak for the Army, but the food on the naval stations was comparable to any mainstream walk in and sit down diner IMO and in most cases even better.

and finally, the base housing... I never lived in housing, I chose to live off base and away from other active duty people and got $2,200 a month to do so as well as an additional $300 a month for just food as I never ate on the base unless I was on duty. And the housing in san diego wasnt even on base, it was nearly 15 miles away in a brand new area, none of the homes were over 5 years old and all were very nice.

So, Id say its really not all that bad.

Now that im out, I have free health care and I collect $1300 a month for college money as well as get 100 percent state tuition reimbursement. So basically I pay nothing to go to school and I collect an additional $1300 a month all year long as long as im enrolled in classes.

[70 cutlass 442]

/\/\ So you are now one exception to the majority of the tools joining.? Your right, i dont make 60Gs a year. But the point Wrath was trying to make is that if your are legitmately good at something and you stay in the private sector, your chances of making more money are far better then just enlisting. I have herd good things about Navy food, but other branches is more of what i was refferign to. For years the armed services were looked at as beign a last resort for people with no directin in life, and i can say that being 22, i have seen a lot of people join for that reason only.

[Breecher_7]

I will agree that there are a shitload of retarded mother fuckers in the military that probably had no other choice in life. But one of two things usually happen to them..

#1. They get weeded out in boot camp or shortly after getting to there command by either just being to god damn stupid or getting in trouble and usually get kicked out.

#2. Learn alot and go on to become a productive part of the military and usually get a good job if they choose to get out.

I dont agree that if your smart you stay in the private sector/civilian jobs... ALmost all of the companies that have goverment contracts that have anything to do with the military have almost all ex military employees on there payroll and usually get paid very well. When I got out I had recruiters from Blackwater, Spawar, and the FBI knocking at my door for a long time. Depending on what you do while your in, it can land you a great civilian job afterwards that usually pays more then you would have made if you went to college.

[70 cutlass 442]

I must need to diversify my selection of people i speak with. I hear much of the opposite, from what you say it sounds like it is like most anythign in life where you only get out of it for what your put in. I am basing my opinion off of people that i know enlisted or are active and i would say all but one, maybe two of them know nothing else other then what they do in the army.... weather it be a plumber, a cook, or driving truck. That is all they know how to do and all they probably ever will know how to do because they lack ambition, or brians, or both......

[Prince Valiant]

Not to piss in anyones corn flakes, but i see 100% where Wrath is comming from. I know so many people who joined just because that was their last resort. This is probably due to the fact that you mostly know only people of limited options to begin with.

Working at a high school, I'm always surprised by the students who look to enlist...hardly the bottom of our barrel. Our salutatorian from about 4 or 5 years ago enlisted...

[70 cutlass 442]

This is probably due to the fact that you mostly know only people of limited options to begin with.

Working at a high school, I'm always surprised by the students who look to enlist...hardly the bottom of our barrel. Our salutatorian from about 4 or 5 years ago enlisted...

not at all, i know people form mechanical to civil engineers, to auto techs to fire fighters. the ones that i do know either cant afford school or have no ambition to go. they are really looking at the military as an "easy way out" which is the worst reason for joining, but like tony stated, there are many assbags joining for thoes reasons alone.

[Teufelhunden]

Nan, I want to blow sh1t up. I miss the smell of JP4. Hook me up with an AH-64 and a chest full of ribbons please.

[srt4eh]

mmmm...ribbons...yes please ;)

[Breecher_7]

mmmm...ribbons...yes please ;)

:rolf

[GHOSST]

MMMMM, military thread... tasty. Oorah!

[PonyKiller87]

Wow, I had no idea this would erupt into a big argument. Glad Im not the only one that thinks this way.

Yes the military is what you make of it, for most smart / decent people it is either a nice career or a stepping stone to get to a really nice career. I was in the top 10% of my graduating class in high school, scored really high on the asvab and seen the military as a way to help me get through college and get there where I ulitmatly wanted to be in life, and do something for my country at the same time.

I started out in the army guard as a mechanic, did 8 years of that while I went through school and then got out. I actualy missed the military life so I ended up getting back in the Air Guard as a vehicle operator. I'm in the processes of getting an officer possition as a civil engineer so I can use what I learned in college for the military now.

most poeople that I know that are in the military have a goal just like me and the military is a great way to help you get there.


Most of the dumb people that some how manage to get in don't last long. Thier either to stupid to pass the schools or to stupid to stay out of trouble. so they end up getting booted out. The ones that manage to stay in, stick out like sore thumbs and pretty much become the bitch that does all the crap work because there always in trouble.

The military needs to tighten up the standard a little to save them selves the time and money of training people that just arent worth it, I know that makes Nan's job a little harder but I think plenty of good people will still be lining up to join.

[Crawlin]

what is the armed forces position on lasik surgery? limit you to positions?

[Beagle]

What was this thread about? Pissing contest? Come on how does a thread like this turn to shit?????

[Breecher_7]

what is the armed forces position on lasik surgery? limit you to positions?

Not really, as long as your vision is or was correctable to 20/20 and your not colorblind you really have no limitations... Unless of course you get a shit score on your asvab or you just dont pass the training for the program you may choose.

[Breecher_7]

What was this thread about? Pissing contest? Come on how does a thread like this turn to shit?????

It turns to shit because people post up information they have been given second hand..... Unless you have served, you will never actually understand, no matter how much someone tries to explain it to you. :thumbsup

[Beagle]

I hate when people talk shit about the service. Ive never served but one thing that I do know is the people that have, deserve nothing but respect.

[srt4eh]

I joined the army because I was tired of working at Home Depot and didn't feel like going to school and paying for it. Now once I get back from the 'stan I will start taking college classes for free. Then once I get out I can go to school FOR FREE AGAIN. Military is definately a stepping stone....although I'm currently loving it. It's better than any of the jobs I've had previous and the benefits for me and my family are amazing.

As far as lasik...they'll let you in as long as its correctable. When I get back I'll be getting laser eye surgery provided free.

[srt4eh]

on another note...my unit irritates the shit out of me.....half of the people talk shit about the army....gtfo!

[Al]

Sometimes I wonder what I could do with my recently acquired BS in Biology and a mid-high 90s (in 2001) score on the ASVAB?

[lasttimearound]

You obviously dont know shit...

First off, I was making nearly 60K a year when I got out, this was after 6 years. Do you make that now? :confused

Second, The VA is actually a great hospital, ive been in there a few times in the last couple years and the car was phenominal. And the base hospitals are usually even better.

Third, As far as food is concerned, I cant speak for the Army, but the food on the naval stations was comparable to any mainstream walk in and sit down diner IMO and in most cases even better.

and finally, the base housing... I never lived in housing, I chose to live off base and away from other active duty people and got $2,200 a month to do so as well as an additional $300 a month for just food as I never ate on the base unless I was on duty. And the housing in san diego wasnt even on base, it was nearly 15 miles away in a brand new area, none of the homes were over 5 years old and all were very nice.

So, Id say its really not all that bad.

Now that im out, I have free health care and I collect $1300 a month for college money as well as get 100 percent state tuition reimbursement. So basically I pay nothing to go to school and I collect an additional $1300 a month all year long as long as im enrolled in classes.

san diego which is german for whales vagina. anyway, miramar or north island? san diego is awesome as a tdy, minus the $21 double jack and cokes.

[wrath]

I guess I'll have to elaborate.

The military beginning to thin out the people they accept can be a bad thing. There are some people that are just better with their hands and DOING things. Some of these people don't test well. They'd be great in the military but maybe now they won't join up.

Booksmart and braindead doesn't play well in the military so even if someone is "ambitious and intelligent" doesn't mean they're good for the military... in fact, these people are bad for the military.

Half the problem with people going into the military is that there isn't any psychological screening or mental training. You have to be pretty strong-willed yet know when to tow the line. An Emo Flunky (TM) that works at Starbucks probably isn't going to make it or they're going to get their comrades or themselves hurt.

There are people that are ambitious and intelligent that would be dumb for them to join the military. Sadly, the military doesn't pay very well. Further, unless you're planning on working for a government contractor a military education won't get you very far in the true private sector. Now, if you manage to get an education from a non-military post-secondary educational institution then you're WELL AHEAD of the game (think ROTC or GI Bill). I don't care what anyone says, every place I've worked for or contracted at puts ZERO value on military training. Now, it's not that they put zero value on the military experience... just the education.

Unless I'm mistaken, you don't get nearly as much free time when you're in the military as you do in the private sector. I'm at work ~8am to around ~5pm. I'm only required to work 31 hours per week to be considered full time. I can do whatever I want whenever I want. I can work 6pm to 4am or split it up if I want. I don't believe the military offers that luxury. Further, total number of hours worked (time you're at work/doing work/living work/don't have freedom) is a lot smaller in the private sector. Unless you have a traveling job in the private sector.

So, now if they're starting to restrict who comes in and shrinking sign-on bonuses you're actually going to get less good-for-the-military individuals. All those people that say "hey, for 6 years of my life I get a new Mustang and free schoolin' when I get out". Now that's not the case. No Mustang. Military pay is crap unless you're in some specialized field and even then it takes a while before you make decent money. If you do the 6 and out and somehow finish college in the two years after you're out you're now at least 26 years old. That's a pretty late start in life (compared to those that went to college for four years). You're going to be about $10k-$15k in the hole every year for around the next five to ten years as compared to those who started their careers at age 22. And remember, each day you're not contributing to your retirement account as a wee young lad or lass the significantly less money you're going to have in your denture years.

[PonyKiller87]

wrath I'm guessing that you personaly have never been in the military but you know several people who have been? I'm just saying this because you sound like the typical person that doesn't really know how it is and is just going buy what people have told them which is usualy people that were bitchin about thier time in.

Basic training does alot of things. The guys that are book smart brain dead as you call them will not make it through. They won't be able to cope with the BS that they put you through because there to busy trying to understand it all. As for your Emo star bucks guy basic would probably weed him out too. Basic training is the psychological screening. If you start losing it because you can't deal with stuff, the drill sergeants get on you harder to see if you'll snap and if they think its necissary they will send you in for real mental screening. In my platoon of about 50 people at basic we lost 2 the mental, 1 or 2 for medical, 1 for failure to addapt...

As far as pay goes, apparently you just don't see what the other guys are saying. It really isn't that bad after all the benefits and allowances are figured in. If you looking at just base pay yeah thats not the greatest. Its alot better than you will do for most non skilled jobs in the private sector fresh out of high school.

As for saving up for retirement, the military does have a pretty decent pension plan. Serve 20 years and your elligable and depending on how much active or reserve time you have its all based on points. I will be able to retire when I'm 39 and start collecting at I think 55? not sure there trying to change that number right now?

[PonyKiller87]

Sometimes I wonder what I could do with my recently acquired BS in Biology and a mid-high 90s (in 2001) score on the ASVAB?

Not sure exacly what the college requirement is but the Air Force has a Bioenvironmental Engineer Possition. I tried to get it at my base but they wanted someone with more chemestry background than what my degree has.

Nice part is its in the medical section so the Officer School its only 4 weeks long, basicly just customs and curtisies so you undertand how to wear the uniform and why everyone is saluting you all the time.

http://www.goang.com/careers/detail/?j=934

thats the job description page but from what I've found there explanations suck.

Last I checked that one still had a $10,000 signing bonus but i can't guarente that

If your interested let me know, I'm a recruting assistant for the guard.

[srt4eh]

Well...while you're active duty non-military education from accredited schools is free therefore schooling that you receive while in would be accepted in the private sector. Not to mention the new GI Bill is amazing for when you get out. Most jobs in the army are comparable to a civilian job. I know at Campbell I went to work at 6:30 for pt...worked 9-11:30...lunch til 1300...then worked until 1500-1600. Everyone should be doing some sort of exercise every day anyways so we won't count that time. Seems like I work at most 6 hours a day...5 days a week. Military base pay in the military sucks....then again they are providing medical, dental, and housing....not to mention food allowance. Does your job pay for your apartment or house? No? Thats prolly why you get paid what you do. I'm an E5 after 2 years.....I'm making pretty good money for working 30 hours a week. Oh...and now that I'm deployed I don't pay a dime for taxes and they give me extra money for hazard duty pay, etc. ($575/mo if you're curious) I don't know why I'm even responding....if you don't like the military don't join....if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

Food for thought...Base Pay $2127 + BAS $323.87 + BAH $858 = 3308.87/mo
Thats a little under $40k a year. I made $28k a year at Home Depot and I had experience ;)

[GHOSST]

what is the armed forces position on lasik surgery? limit you to positions? Hells no! I know we in the Marines offer it! There's this waiting list thats up to years at a time...Because so many people want it, and its free. Hell, I plan on getting on the list when I get back from Iraq. But if that was a problem they wouldnt offer it for free.. I mean, its a garanteed 20/20 vision procedure, some jobs are required to have 20/20 vision for a qualification! I know the career paths for me will open up for me in the Corp once I get it done...

[Al]

Not sure exacly what the college requirement is but the Air Force has a Bioenvironmental Engineer Possition. I tried to get it at my base but they wanted someone with more chemestry background than what my degree has.

Nice part is its in the medical section so the Officer School its only 4 weeks long, basicly just customs and curtisies so you undertand how to wear the uniform and why everyone is saluting you all the time.

http://www.goang.com/careers/detail/?j=934

thats the job description page but from what I've found there explanations suck.
Sounds interesting. I am certain that some of my research projects would assist me in that field.


Last I checked that one still had a $10,000 signing bonus but i can't guarente that

If your interested let me know, I'm a recruting assistant for the guard.

I usually don't think about signing bonuses when I think about the services. What I ask myself is whether it would be a labor-of-love or not.

Then again, I was also looking at jobs with other government agencies where i could my degree and passions to good use.

[Breecher_7]

san diego which is german for whales vagina. anyway, miramar or north island? san diego is awesome as a tdy, minus the $21 double jack and cokes.

Wrong bars my friend, try the ones by the SDSU campus, $3 jack and cokes.. Effins Pub in particular. :thumbsup And I was stationed on Coronado/north island.

[PonyKiller87]

Sounds interesting. I am certain that some of my research projects would assist me in that field.



I usually don't think about signing bonuses when I think about the services. What I ask myself is whether it would be a labor-of-love or not.

Then again, I was also looking at jobs with other government agencies where i could my degree and passions to good use.

When you think about it, it will cost the gov less money to find someone thats already trained in a field and give them a bonus vs getting someone untrained and putting them through all the schools.

I'm the same way, I was content being a mechanic and driver for a while. Got to mess around with some cool stuff, but now I'm at the point where I want to do more, thats why I'm trying to get into an officer slot.

[lasttimearound]

Wrong bars my friend, try the ones by the SDSU campus, $3 jack and cokes.. Effins Pub in particular. :thumbsup And I was stationed on Coronado/north island.

we stayed at the horton or whatever, so yes, not exactly my part of town, but thats where they put us.