How do you sue a roommate?

[pOrk]

Any tips / advice / legal console anyone here can offer?

My fiancee Lisa and her friend Katy got stuck with a 3 bedroom apartment when the 3rd girl bailed without holding up her end of the lease. She has racked up a few hundred in late fees as well as 2 months unpaid rent, plus there is an additional 6 months under this lease that she will not be paying.

What amount can they sue for? How long does this process normally take? Can they sue for time or just lost rent / late fees? Anything would be helpful, this girl is a nut job and the other girls HAVE been paying their portion of the rent on time since they first moved in a few months ago.

[70 cutlass 442]

Any tips / advice / legal console anyone here can offer?

My fiancee Lisa and her friend Katy got stuck with a 3 bedroom apartment when the 3rd girl bailed without holding up her end of the lease. She has racked up a few hundred in late fees as well as 2 months unpaid rent, plus there is an additional 6 months under this lease that she will not be paying.

What amount can they sue for? How long does this process normally take? Can they sue for time or just lost rent / late fees? Anything would be helpful, this girl is a nut job and the other girls HAVE been paying their portion of the rent on time since they first moved in a few months ago.


small claims court is your beat bet

[pOrk]

It looks like filing with small claims is going to cost 138 bucks, so I assume they can sue for unpaid rent + late fees + filing fee, correct? Also, since the roommate that left refuses to give up her access rights, can they sue her for her portion of the utilities as well?

[michelle]

Have the girls read through their lease to make sure they aren't responsible to pay her part of the rent and then small claims court.

I know the lease that I signed when I lived off-campus had a separate section if another name on the lease doesn't pay their part of the rent that no matter what it was then my responsibility to pay full rent.

[pOrk]

All 3 of their names are on the lease, therefor all 3 of them are equally responsible for paying 1/3 of the rent if I'm not mistaken. And since she still has access, what stops from getting 1/3 of the utilities as well?

$2640 is what she will eventually owe in rent ( till the end of the lease ).
$695 in late fee's
$138 for small claims court filing fee plus whatever additional fee's there may be
$448 is 1/3 utilities for the remainder of the lease


3921 total so far

[michelle]

Source: (http://realestate.findlaw.com/tenant/tenant-leases/tenant-roommate-moving.html)

When a Roommate Leaves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What to do if a roommate moves out before a lease ends.

A co-tenant who is a month-to-month tenant who wants to leave in the middle of a tenancy is legally responsible for giving the landlord proper written notice and paying rent through the end of the notice period. If there's a lease, the tenant should either get permission from the landlord to leave early or, if this is impossible, find a new tenant who is acceptable to the landlord. If a co-tenant simply leaves without the landlord's okay or without an acceptable substitute, the fallout can be serious.

What to Do If You Want to Stay
The unauthorized departure of a co-tenant gives the landlord the option of evicting the rest of you, even if you are able to pay the full rent. The landlord has this option because breaking the lease or rental agreement by even one tenant is a violation of a key lease term (the length of stay), for which all tenants are liable.

In practice, however, your landlord will probably let you stay if you can keep a steady stream of rent money coming in and keep the place occupied by stable, nondestructive tenants. So if you pay the rent after a co-tenant has broken the lease and left, the landlord will probably not evict you and other tenants unless:

•you are a troublesome tenant, and this is a golden opportunity to be rid of you, or
•your income doesn't appear sufficient to cover the rent in the future. In this case, if you can assure the landlord that you can promptly bring in a good, law- and lease-abiding new co-tenant, you might be able to salvage your tenancy. In the meantime, you may need to ask permission to pay the rent late or in installments. Or, ask the landlord to use the departed tenant's share of the security deposit to help pay the rent until you find an acceptable replacement.
Always get your landlord's approval before moving in a new roommate. If a co-tenant takes off and leaves you facing the entire rent, you may be tempted to simply move in another roommate, bypassing the landlord's application process. Don't! Your lease or rental agreement probably prohibits unauthorized sublets. If it does, bringing in a new tenant -- even a great one -- without your landlord's okay violates your agreement and gives your landlord a watertight reason to evict you. Instead, keep your relationship on an honest footing and get your landlord's approval for a replacement tenant.


How to Deal With a Departing Roommate
Remaining roommates need to cover their legal flanks with respect to the departed tenant as well as the landlord. If your housemate has left during the middle of a lease or without proper notice in a month-to-month tenancy, leaving you responsible for all the rent, your personal relations will be rocky at best. Probably the last thing you want is to have your errant roommate reappear expecting to move back in.

To avoid such surprises, try to get your former roommate to sign an agreement, making it clear that the departing tenant:

•Will pay a stated amount of rent and utilities. If you rent under a written rental agreement, this will normally be rent and utilities for 30 days from the date the departing tenant gave written notice (or left without notice), unless a new roommate comes in earlier and covers these costs. If you rent under a lease, the amount owed will depend on when a new co-tenant, acceptable to the landlord, is ready to take over. If, despite your best efforts, you cannot find an acceptable replacement, the departing tenant will be liable for the rent for the balance of the lease.
•Will pay for any damage she caused to the rental unit.
•Will pay for rent and damage no later than a stated date.
•Has moved out for good and gives up any claim to be a tenant.
But what if you and the departing roommate can't work things out, and the departed co-tenant shows no signs of paying? If your roommate is long gone or out-of-state, you may want to grit your teeth, pay his share and forget it, since trying to find him, sue him, and then collect the judgment is likely to be more trouble than it's worth.

On the other hand, if your ex-roommate is still in town and has a source of income, consider taking the time to sue him in small claims court for unpaid rent, damage to the rental unit, unpaid utilities, and your costs to find a replacement co-tenant, such as advertising. Then, if your ex-roommate still doesn't pay up, you can collect what you won in court from his bank account or wages.

Sorry to hear about their situation. I'm sure both girls lost a friend and hopefully it gets resolved quickly and easily, but I know that is pretty rare when it comes to roommate situations.

[Nick]

All 3 of their names are on the lease, therefor all 3 of them are equally responsible for paying 1/3 of the rent if I'm not mistaken.

She should be responsible as long as this is the case.

Just make damn sure, as I have learned from judge judy, to have EVERY bit of documentation that could count against her in the case.

[pOrk]

She should be responsible as long as this is the case.

Just make damn sure, as I have learned from judge judy, to have EVERY bit of documentation that could count against her in the case.

They got the notice today that rent wasn't being paid, and went straight to the property manager. They have the records from every time a check was cleared who paid how much when, who made late payments, and who was paying what amount each month. So far the apartment staff is being great about supplying all the paper work.

What are the chances of winning if they have ALL the paper work proving she left without notice and hasn't paid a dime? What a character this broad is. Maybe some here knows her:

Ashley Russ
262 880 8242

Also, she just moved obviously. How do I find her current address? She supposedly has a rent to own somewhere in Kenosha that is owned by her aunt.

[ND4SPD]

Dunno, but if they don't show up to the trial you may win by default as long as you have enough documentation.

[70 cutlass 442]

yup. u can go up to 5K in small claims... im sueing my EX for just under $300 and a portion of that is the filing fee.....

[pOrk]

How long does the process normally take? And how do you go about filing, through the City Hall?

[kornholio788]

Definitely read every last word on the lease. Just because her name is on it doesn't necessarily mean that she HAS to pay 1/3 of the rent. It could just be a general, "The members signing this lease must pay $&&&& amount by the first of the month until the lease is up". Which doesn't necessarily mean they have to equally split the rent. They may have in there that even if a roommate ditches the other 2 have to pay up. I kinda doubt it but make sure. Because you don't want to go through all the courts just to see that the fine print says she is off the hook.

God am I glad I live alone lol.

[pOrk]

The lease is only 2 pages long, and if someone leaves obviously the other two have to cover the remainder in order to keep from being evicted. All 3 girls are equally responsible for paying the rent as the lease states. Legally, that means all 3 of them are responsible for paying 1/3, unless otherwise agreed upon.

Ashley was paying 330 a month and the other girls were paying 255 each per month. Ashley paid more for the bigger bedroom, private bathroom, and 1 car garage. They are going to try and sue her for her full portion, but will settle with 1/3 and still be happy of the outcome assuming they win.

[70 cutlass 442]

How long does the process normally take? And how do you go about filing, through the City Hall?

mine was done through circuit court. they ahve some info online... i filed my papers but didnt pay the fee yet. once thats done they will send someone over to drop papers off.... in waukesha its always a friendly sherifs deputy. I think they said wait up to a month for them to set a date and all that jazz.

[kornholio788]

Is there anything on paper saying that they agreed to pay 255/mo?

Because while morals and common sense would say that "Equally responsible" means split it equally. But the court might not see it that way. As it doesn't "officially" state what each girl HAS to pay.

"Responsibility" doesn't = an amount.

That just says that they agree to get what ever the amount they agreed upon in on time. If you have a document saying what each girl agreed to pay for the term of the lease then you are all good. If it was just a verbal agreement you might be sorta fucked over here.

[Prince Valiant]

Imo, your fiance is screwed...ultimately, no matter how many names are there, the payment has to come in; None of of the names could be living there, but guess what? If it's within the lease period and the land-lord didn't release you from the lease agreement, you and everyone else on the agreement is still on the hook legally to pay.

Yep, there are legal agreements b/w the leasee's, and you can and perhaps likely WILL win in court. Great, right? But then, try squeezing blood from a turnip. It appears that this former roomate is of limited means financially, so while a judgement can be issued against her, actually collecting the back rent, court cost, etc is a whole different story.

It sucks, it doesn't seem right, true...why can't they just make the roomates pay their share and go after the delinquint roomate? Because then you'd have a host of people going into lease agreements and having roomates pull-out on purpose. Great! spacious 3 BR apt noramlly 1000 month, NOW just 334 a month! It's not the landlords problem nor responsibility to find someone to go into that spot, so the remaining residents are still on the hook. The delinquent roomate obviously doesn't care about future things like buying a house or car, so she doesn't care if they mark her credit report or something.

[pOrk]

Imo, your fiance is screwed...ultimately, no matter how many names are there, the payment has to come in; None of of the names could be living there, but guess what? If it's within the lease period and the land-lord didn't release you from the lease agreement, you and everyone else on the agreement is still on the hook legally to pay.

Yep, there are legal agreements b/w the leasee's, and you can and perhaps likely WILL win in court. Great, right? But then, try squeezing blood from a turnip. It appears that this former roomate is of limited means financially, so while a judgement can be issued against her, actually collecting the back rent, court cost, etc is a whole different story.

It sucks, it doesn't seem right, true...why can't they just make the roomates pay their share and go after the delinquint roomate? Because then you'd have a host of people going into lease agreements and having roomates pull-out on purpose. Great! spacious 3 BR apt noramlly 1000 month, NOW just 334 a month! It's not the landlords problem nor responsibility to find someone to go into that spot, so the remaining residents are still on the hook. The delinquent roomate obviously doesn't care about future things like buying a house or car, so she doesn't care if they mark her credit report or something.

She makes plenty of money, she is a sales rep for a pharmaceutical company and makes 40k + a year. I know that its not the landlords responsibility to take her to court, that's why I am asking for advice as to how the girls should go about doing such.

[pOrk]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/thegreenpOrk/RentalAgreement1.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/thegreenpOrk/RentalAgreementBack1.jpg

[shoooo32]

Move forward with the small claims suit however she should start looking for another roommate. It will be months before any judgment can be handed down and you don't want an eviction on your record.

[michelle]

If they are able to find a new roommate, make sure to have the landlord run a background check like they would for any other person who would be signing the lease.

[kornholio788]

By looking at the lease there is sadly absolutly nothing in paperwork that says you three have to split the rent evenly.


I am sorry to say but it looks like it might not be worth the trouble in fear of having a good chance of not winning.

[pOrk]

By looking at the lease there is sadly absolutly nothing in paperwork that says you three have to split the rent evenly.


I am sorry to say but it looks like it might not be worth the trouble in fear of having a good chance of not winning.

:rolf Clearly you haven't a clue

[Crawlin]

Pork...

I'm not 100% positive, but having been through someone leaving that was on the lease with me, it was my responsibility to cover the remainder of the lease. That is what I was told by my property manager. Sure I could go after that person, but the burden and the hassle just wasn't worth it. If you try and retain a lawyer to go about doing this, realize it'll cost about $1000 in attorney fees. What does that other girl owe? Time wasted having to get off of work to get to court etc...

Best bet... Is she living back home with mom and dad? If so, just talk to an attorney to see if now she's under her parent's address if they can ALSO be held responsible. Kinda the same thing with car insurance. If you get into an accident, and still live at home even though you are an adult, they can go after the people that are still your "guardians". Maybe a polite letter or visit to her parents house will get the check written for the remainder. One of those "anything so my little girl doesn't have a permanent spot on her credit report" things.

What sucks is that you said she doesn't want to give up "access" ? What the hell? So she wants to not live there or pay to live there, but yet still wants to freely enter the apartment? That's messed up.

[lordairgtar]

Pork, I would conceal those names and addresses. Never know what asshats are surfing the net.

[Crawlin]

Alright Pork... just called my sister. She has multiple rental properties and her boyfriend is an actual development lawyer, blah blah blah....

Here is the way it works on HER leases and what HE said is pretty much 99.9% the standard:

In these cases, a lease does not explicitly list what each tenant is responsible for. You'd need 3 different leases stating that exact amount they are responsible for that one apartment. Each would be individually signed, not like what you have scanned in. And in most cases, that would never happen for the reasons that would be stated in previous posts.

Now, what that means is that unfortunately the two remaining girls are responsible for that difference. Otherwise the landlord CAN evict them. And then that would go on ALL three of their credit reports as a judgement that they owe money. Yes, the two can go after the girl that left. You would take them to court and a judgement would go against that girl. If she doesn't pay, when she goes to get a house or sell a house at some point, they will search for any judgements or liens against that person, and you would get that money back that was paid out that was originally an agreement between them all. But that of course may take years.

She said the best bet is to obviously get the landlord involved and see if there is something they could do to offset the difference. Shoveling, mowing, paying the water bill, etc... Just anything that shows you are trying to work with the landlord is good faith. She said she's accepted that in those cases. They would rather have someone there with rent compared to no one there nad having to evict them.

She also said that if you work with the landlord, that person could ALSO call the parents or the girl in general and scare her. The landlord threatening a lawsuit is MUCH bigger than your fiance and her friend, no matter which way you look at it.

In the end, she just said that unless something else is worked out, they are 100% responsible for the difference until the lease is up, or they work out a seperate agreement.

Did that girl who left, also put in on the security deposit? Can that be substituted for a payment at all?

[pOrk]

Alright Pork... just called my sister. She has multiple rental properties and her boyfriend is an actual development lawyer, blah blah blah....

Here is the way it works on HER leases and what HE said is pretty much 99.9% the standard:

In these cases, a lease does not explicitly list what each tenant is responsible for. You'd need 3 different leases stating that exact amount they are responsible for that one apartment. Each would be individually signed, not like what you have scanned in. And in most cases, that would never happen for the reasons that would be stated in previous posts.

Now, what that means is that unfortunately the two remaining girls are responsible for that difference. Otherwise the landlord CAN evict them. And then that would go on ALL three of their credit reports as a judgement that they owe money. Yes, the two can go after the girl that left. You would take them to court and a judgement would go against that girl. If she doesn't pay, when she goes to get a house or sell a house at some point, they will search for any judgements or liens against that person, and you would get that money back that was paid out that was originally an agreement between them all. But that of course may take years.

She said the best bet is to obviously get the landlord involved and see if there is something they could do to offset the difference. Shoveling, mowing, paying the water bill, etc... Just anything that shows you are trying to work with the landlord is good faith. She said she's accepted that in those cases. They would rather have someone there with rent compared to no one there nad having to evict them.

She also said that if you work with the landlord, that person could ALSO call the parents or the girl in general and scare her. The landlord threatening a lawsuit is MUCH bigger than your fiance and her friend, no matter which way you look at it.

In the end, she just said that unless something else is worked out, they are 100% responsible for the difference until the lease is up, or they work out a seperate agreement.

Did that girl who left, also put in on the security deposit? Can that be substituted for a payment at all?

I asked the girls to draft a letter to send into the landlord to use Ashleys portion of the security deposit towards rent, which they are doing tonight. Ashley is very good at lieing through her teeth, so could be living at home but she has been bragging to other friends of hers on myspace about buying a house. She either bought a house, or is doing a rent to own with one of her aunts properties.

I know that Lisa and Katie are responsible for paying the full amount of rent and getting Ashleys back will need to be through the court system, its just a matter of how they should go about it. Thanks a ton for helping me research this, its a real pain in the ass dealing with this for the past month and now that the eviction notice is hanging on the door knob its about time we do something. Super irritating thats for sure.

[Crawlin]

The wonders of a simple letter for an attorney. Honestly, that'd be the easiest thing to start off with. Expressing how if she doesn't pay her responsibility, that a lien would be placed against anything she owed, car, house, etc... Have it drafted and sent to her as well as her parents if possible. Like I said, "daddy's little girl" can do no wrong, haha.

You'd be amazed at just how GRAPHIC they can get with words, hahaha.

If she did buy a house, that's be awesome, because when they go to court, you'll get that lien placed on the title of the house, haha.

There are a ton of attorneys that would take this in a heartbeat for some quick money, haha. Find one that works on a contingency and then he won't get paid unless you win. Then you can also go after her for the court fees/attorney fees when you win.

[pOrk]

The wonders of a simple letter for an attorney. Honestly, that'd be the easiest thing to start off with. Expressing how if she doesn't pay her responsibility, that a lien would be placed against anything she owed, car, house, etc... Have it drafted and sent to her as well as her parents if possible. Like I said, "daddy's little girl" can do no wrong, haha.

You'd be amazed at just how GRAPHIC they can get with words, hahaha.

If she did buy a house, that's be awesome, because when they go to court, you'll get that lien placed on the title of the house, haha.

There are a ton of attorneys that would take this in a heartbeat for some quick money, haha. Find one that works on a contingency and then he won't get paid unless you win. Then you can also go after her for the court fees/attorney fees when you win.

I was thinking that could be an option, but what kind of cost would be incurred to get an attorney do such?

[WhatsADSM]

Yea it's going to be tough. The contract posted, as mentioned by other members, doesn't state an equal split at all. It literally just states that all 3 are responsible.

I take it the 3 roommates never signed anything between the 3 of them that clearly stated what each person owed, did they? Normally that would be the way to have a legally binding contract of a split rent, when the contract with the landlord does not specify. Unfortunately if you don't have something like this the roommate that left can always just say that she had a verbal agreement with the other 2, that she would pay some super small amount... and again there isn't much legal proof that says otherwise.

Other than that I would agree with Crawlin, your best bet is to see if you can get a lawyer involved to at least write a letter to her and her parents that expresses her responsibility to pay. Many times those work wonders, even in situations where you might not have all the legal tools you need to easily win the case. People don't like seeing letters from laywers stating they owe money.

Best of luck.

[PB86MCSS]

Lines 32-34 of the lease pretty much state rent is due in full no matter how many/who's living there and it doesn't matter who pays what portion. Any lease worth its paper will state it similarly, to protect the owner from this kind of situation. Not up to the owner to figure out who is the deadbeat, they are looked at "as one". I rarely hear of small claims actions working real well, hopefully somehow this situation ends fairly.

[pOrk]

Yea it's going to be tough. The contract posted, as mentioned by other members, doesn't state an equal split at all. It literally just states that all 3 are responsible.

I take it the 3 roommates never signed anything between the 3 of them that clearly stated what each person owed, did they? Normally that would be the way to have a legally binding contract of a split rent, when the contract with the landlord does not specify. Unfortunately if you don't have something like this the roommate that left can always just say that she had a verbal agreement with the other 2, that she would pay some super small amount... and again there isn't much legal proof that says otherwise.

Other than that I would agree with Crawlin, your best bet is to see if you can get a lawyer involved to at least write a letter to her and her parents that expresses her responsibility to pay. Many times those work wonders, even in situations where you might not have all the legal tools you need to easily win the case. People don't like seeing letters from laywers stating they owe money.

Best of luck.

Actually, the proof is in the pudding. We have a copy of every rent check paid since August courtesy of the land lord. Thats proof enough that there was an agreed upon amount for each room mate.

[pOrk]

Lines 32-34 of the lease pretty much state rent is due in full no matter how many/who's living there and it doesn't matter who pays what portion. Any lease worth its paper will state it similarly, to protect the owner from this kind of situation. Not up to the owner to figure out who is the deadbeat, they are looked at "as one". I rarely hear of small claims actions working real well, hopefully somehow this situation ends fairly.

That basically covers the owners ass, legally all 3 tennants are equally responsible for the full amount, therefor split 3 ways when they go their seperate ways. The landlord doesn't care how they get the rent, as long as they get it. The roommates then have to take their issues to the state, as most landlords aren't big fans of baby sitting tennants.

[PB86MCSS]

Exactly and to be honest it makes sense...maybe from a tenant POV its not as "fair" but they all sign the lease, they are all liable. Dealt with this crap alot when I worked for a property management company. This way for any eviction/collection issue they can all be included too.

[Adam Brooks]

That basically covers the owners ass, legally all 3 tennants are equally responsible for the full amount, therefor split 3 ways when they go their seperate ways. The landlord doesn't care how they get the rent, as long as they get it. The roommates then have to take their issues to the state, as most landlords aren't big fans of baby sitting tennants.

If the amount owed is not defined as being split between the individuals in the original signed lease, typically the responsibility is put on the person whose name is listed first on that lease.

If that is your GF then shes ultimately responsible to pay in full. Your GF can certainly take the others (or whoever) to small claims court. All real estate disputes are handled in small claims regardless of monetary size to provide to a quicker trial and decision. However, it will be your GF's responsibility to prove to the judge that there was an agreement outside of the original lease that indicated the rent was to be split, by how much and based on what percentage (since that arrangement is not specified in the lease).

The language in the contract "All tenants, if more than one, are jointly and severally liable for the full amount of any payments due under this agreement unless this sentence is stricken" simply indicated the obligation of those individuals to pay the landlord. That language does NOT state what percentage is to be paid by whom nor does it imply that the percentage is automatically divided 3 ways. It just means that they are ultimately liable to make sure the landlord receives all of their money. If one person doesn't pay, the extent to which each person is ultimately liable for the FULL amount due does not change. Basically if the landlord doesn't get paid, everyone is on the hook for it.


Actually, the proof is in the pudding. We have a copy of every rent check paid since August courtesy of the land lord. Thats proof enough that there was an agreed upon amount for each room mate.
I really don't know if that will be enough to prove that there was a predetermined arrangement spanning the length of the entire lease. The check is only viewed as a contract for the period of time in which it's dated. It does not imply a future agreement to pay. Contacts (binding agreements) must include some basic criteria see http://consumer-law.lawyers.com/Contract-Basics.html

I'm licensed in RE and contract law by the sate of wisconsin, license #68629-94. However, none of what I wrote is legal advise, it is my interpretation of the contract. I recommend you/your GF DO seek legal advise. I know this is probbaly not the answer you're looking/hoping for but hopefully this perspective can help you figure out how to best assimilate whatever facts you can to save some time if you decide to seek legal action. let me know if you need attorney to contact I have 3 that are fantastic.
-Adam

[Rocket Power]

You sure you want to post their names and address in a public forum ?

[TheRX7Project]

I was thinking the same thing ^^

I've had roomates ditch before, but I never went after them in court.

[pOrk]

So the paper work has been filed and just went to the Sheriffs Department to arrange getting the papers served when the apartment got ahold of the girls and said Ashley sent in a check that covers her rent for the last few months. Should they still go through with it and sue for the utilities / late fee's / court fee's? I am thinking yes since they already filed and are now 100 bucks in the hole with the court, plus a few hundred in utilities and such. But another side of me says to take her money and run with it so its done with.