Milwaukee>Detroit...or is it?

[Lash]

So...how long will it be before Milwaukee's economy falls to the level of Detroit's? Is it just a matter of time?

Seeing how Milwaukee was 'once upon a time' on the same level as Camden, NJ and Buffalo, NY....how has it managed to barely stay afloat this long?

[Flicktitty]

i don't think it will go down.

i mean with people loosing there jobs there drinking more.

[That_Guy]

milwaukee doesnt produce anything anymore.. so we really dont have much to lose

honestly..

milwaukee tool is over seas, masterlock, pbr is gone, tower automotive is pretty much gone..

[T-Bag]

Lol milwaukee will NEVER become detroit. Its not possible especially when you consider how much larger the detroit area is.

[CATNHAT]

I grew up in Detroit--damn I hope that sheet doesnt migrate west!!!!
Buddies back there tell me foreclosures left and right--nobodies buyin-nobodies sellinn!
The funny thing is, they know people that are like "here ya go-its all yours banky bank"

Still have not figured that mentality out???????

[Nick]

Where would this thought even come from?

Makes no sense at all.

[GRAMPS SS]

milwaukee doesnt produce anything anymore.. so we really dont have much to lose

honestly..

milwaukee tool is over seas, masterlock, pbr is gone, tower automotive is pretty much gone..


PABST is gone.????..miller brews it along with a few other beers.....we still have.....................HD

Milwaukee still has somethings to offer big businesses to come here...hell we have the BREWERS....

[MurphysLaw88GT]

i still have a job for a little while yet

[DR.FORD]

What about Ladish, Bucyrus Erie??!!!
Problem is a couple big companies can't keep everyone going.
Quad is laying off 400 people!!
I am grateful I have customers from across the U.S. and believe me, my Cali guys show NO signs of cash problems:banana

[62 furious]

the truckin industry has slowed down alot . they are being sold and bought up by bigger companies and drivers being laid off

[wrath]

SE WI for the most part has shed most of its manufacturing. It has moved towards medical manufacturing, medical billing, financials, et cetera.

But it still relies heavily on manufacturing. Wouldn't want to work at a place that builds mining equipment (there are a couple around here), work in the print industry (lots of those around here including Quad), work in the print advertising industry (uh, more of those), build parts that get sold to other companies, et cetera. Hell, even GE is getting rid of people.

There are some places like Generac and Waukesha Engine that have huge lead times (the 1.5MW we ordered for my company a year ago still hasn't been built yet) so they're still alright... but the orders have been dwindling.

SE WI is having the same pains Detroit was having when I was a kid. Raising the sales tax, having ridiculous property taxes, the new paid sick time, et cetera is going to kill Milwaukee. Opposite-white people can't get high paying manufacturing jobs because they don't exist. South of the border people can't get high paying menial labor jobs because they don't exist. Jobs are becoming scarce all around and there is a metric shit ton of downward pressure on wages and benefits. Economic opportunity is disappearing.

Businesses are moving out of Milwaukee County. The ones that were close are moving further out. Heck, RedPrairie is building a new home in Delafield because Brookfield is too expensive.


To put things in perspective...
Where is the nearest 3 story mall to Milwaukee?
Where is the nearest Nordstroms?
How many businesses have shuttered their headquarters/manufacturing or reduced themselves to a few white collar jobs?
How many expressways go places of value/how much infrastructure is there?

So:
Why would any business stay in WI? To pay the ridiculous taxes? To pay a ton of money for energy (energy whether fuel, electric, or natural gas is the same as Chicago)? To pay a ton of money for shipping (nobody lives in Wisconsin... and there are no businesses) because there is nothing here and it's far away?
Why would any business move to WI? Same as above plus: Difficult to attract top notch people from "the city" where they probably have choices (like a 3 story mall with lots of choices) and things to do (like more than a rinky-dink Museum, Zoo, and park system)?



There already have been many large and countless small trucking companies go out of business in WI. They're usually good indicators of the "market". The worst is yet to come in WI. Just about everyone here I bet knows someone or has someone in the family that have experienced reduced employment in the last 3 months. We already saw a ton of retail/service businesses close. When I moved here a year and a half ago there were no open spaces on Bluemound. Now there is. Once people start losing their jobs/reduced work weeks it has a cascade effect. Especially in a place like this that relies so heavily on the Service Sector.

SE WI did see a housing bubble. We're still up about 22% above inflation compared to 2000 home sale prices. We're down about 12% compared to the peak (of 2007). Some places peaked in 2005. I did a comparison of same house sales from 2002 to 2008 in one family-orientated neighborhood in Waukesha and I can post those numbers sometime if you'd like.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Nah Milwaukee hasnt lost half its population. :thumbsup
Any old city has poverty, slums and po' folks, heck some cities have planned slums.

Camden or Detroit the biggest slum ? Well thats a toss up, tho I doubt they could get any worse than they were 10 years ago.

[DocDave]

A Detroit? I don't think we will ever become that bad, but hang on, times are going to get rough! I agree Milwaukee is going the opposite way to attract businesses to the area. Tie that to the collapse of the over-inflated economy and you are going to see a lot of business thinking twice about coming here or even staying here.

[That_Guy]

PABST is gone.????..miller brews it along with a few other beers.....we still have.....................HD

Milwaukee still has somethings to offer big businesses to come here...hell we have the BREWERS....

i meant all the jobs that where at the pabst brewery...

[Exitspeed]

Besides the dude that loved in Detroit, how many of you have been there?

I used to go to the NAIAS every year and I don't think Milwaukee will get as bad as Detroit of 5 years ago let alone like it is today. Detroit is in BAD shape.

4 years ago when I was there I went to this club and parked in this brand new Brownstone style condo development. It was about half done then and it looked like there was about 2 or 3 units occupied. I went back the same time a year later and the development was still not done and the units almost all seemed empty.

Were are just NOW seeing this going on here. Detroit was dealing with this when our Real Estate was still booming.

So no, I don't think we'll ever be a Detroit.

And as far as Miller goes, the production is not leaving Milwaukee. Only the Corp office which is not a huge loss in jobs.

[PB86MCSS]

Detroit has/had alot more to lose than Milwaukee ever had with all the auto manufacturing jobs and corporate jobs it was relying on. Don't think we are comparable in size or scope bad or good....maybe Cleveland? Detroit is in its own category really, IMO.

[Fast SVT]

Seeing all the condo's being built and all the housing that has popped up north of Racine and you would think the place is growing.

And here is the other thing in regards to taxes......have you heard anyone in any state claim their taxes are cheap?

[Got Boost]

People arent buying those condos 3 big condo projects in Milw have stopped being built

[Crawlin]

dad's company is still building. things are still fine on that end. first time in his career he had a hospital/health care type job just stop. but it will get finished.

Honestly, I agree alot with what wrath had to say. More importantly, I think there IS alot of money in this area. There are alot of moderately wealthy people. Not billionaires, but just soundly invested people that while yes, are taking a bit of a beating, aren't necessarily in bad shape. I think "most" of the people in this area that have a ton of money, are pretty modest. Compared to larger areas like Chicago, you'll see people making the same money, but they are driving a fully loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee, not the new twice as expensive LX570 Lexus. They are just overall more modest it seems.

my god parents(aunt/uncle) live in the detroit suburbs. they are perfectly fine, but they are in a very nice area. uncle worked for GM for a LONG LONG LONG time. maybe 50 years at this point. just never wanted to stop working. aunt worked for a company that was apart of chrysler. hasn't worked there since the merger with daimler though. our area will NEVER be like there. We never had the HUGE buildup of money and overspending that that area had when things were supposedly going well. If you are making 65k and then make 75k then back down, your lifestyle isn't exactly going to change all that much. Go from making 40k to 75k, and then back down to 40k, you've already upped your lifestyle and it's at a time in which it's pretty much impossible to get out of the house you thought you'd always be able to afford. Just not smart thinking overall. No one realizes you can actually go backwards in income

[wrath]

It's an economy of scale thing. The greater Tennessee area has half as many people and half as many posted IT jobs as Milwaukee. The greater Detroit area has twice as many people and twice as many posted IT jobs as Milwaukee Metro. The Chicagoland area has twice as many people and four times as many posted IT jobs as Detroit. Comparatively speaking, Nashville, Milwaukee, and Detroit are all in the same league, Chicago is the one doing well.

I'm here because of the job market. It's much better here in SE WI than Michigan (more talented people competing for the same job in Michigan). It's close to Michigan as far as the feel goes. It's clean here. The people are nice. People aren't pretentious here like they are in Chicago. I'd make about $10k/year more in Michigan doing the same work. But I know here I could find a job in two months or less making comparable pay to what I am now. And I check about every 9 months to see what I'm worth. In Michigan it would take me 6 months or longer to find a job comparable to what I make.

At one time most of the cookware in the US was built in Wisconsin. Many tractors too. Mining equipment. Water-related equipment. The list goes on. A lot of stuff is still made here. Further, if no one is buying anything then no one needs to be designing anything (engineers), moving things (transportation and planning), or accounting things (financials). If you don't need any of that stuff you don't need any project direction (management), human resources (HR), or health management (health and human management). Just because SEWI doesn't rely on building stuff doesn't mean it's immune.

Even commercial building is crawling to a halt. Condo projects? SEWI needs more condos like it needs another gang. There has been what, two companies go out of business during the build in downtown Milwaukee? The Bastide at the Gatehouse (we call it the Bastard at the Gayhouse) near where I live has only sold 2 units since I moved here 17 months ago so they still have like 9 or so vacant units. The condos at the other end of University Drive actually have more for sale then when I moved here.

It's coming. In October 2007 there were 3-4 foreclosures each week in Waukesha County that made it to the courthouse to be auctioned. There are 19 scheduled for Monday. I'm hoping the powers that be in SE WI are smarter than the ones in Detroit. Or I'll get to watch it happen again. haha. Already watching it happen to businesses in the area like the dumbasses at Roundys/PicknSave.

[Nick]

I say they keep building condo's because it only increases my chances of buying one cheaper in the future. :D

[PB86MCSS]

New condo developments outside of downtown, in the suburbs, have been struggling even more for longer. I worked for a property management company which had ties with several developers, back in 2005 when I started for them I was surprised how many new developments there were in Franklin, Oak Creek, the Falls, etc...and they weren't exactly selling quickly back then. By the time I left there were plenty of issues with developers having money issues and unsold units, projects slowed greatly or stopped. The glut of condos on the market and overdevelopment of them plays into the housing woes. Why buy a used condo when you can get a new one for about the same price? I can see the prices dropping more with condos in relation to houses.

[Moparjim]

Seeing all the condo's being built and all the housing that has popped up north of Racine and you would think the place is growing.

And here is the other thing in regards to taxes......have you heard anyone in any state claim their taxes are cheap?

Some states have NO taxes. When Toyota offered me a job in San Antonio, I was surprised to find TX and other states have ZERO state income tax. Property costs and property taxes were like HALF what they are here. $150K buys you a 3000 Sq Ft house with a pool. No heating bill in the winter...

[wrath]

Some states have NO taxes. When Toyota offered me a job in San Antonio, I was surprised to find TX and other states have ZERO state income tax. Property costs and property taxes were like HALF what they are here. $150K buys you a 3000 Sq Ft house with a pool. No heating bill in the winter...

Hah, that's funny. I was offered a job there back in 2005. I was going to be a test engineer. I couldn't convince myself to deal with the 50% travel though... or the miserably hot weather.

In some ways I wish I took that job, especially after being cooped up in an apartment for the last year and a half. But I was dumb and believed I'd make more money AND be able to spend it too. I'm a fscking retard.