Detroit auto show thread...

[Prince Valiant]

If you're following the Detroit auto show from afar, like I am, post up your favorites revelations.

Sadly, mine are all "EV" vehicles...it's a telling time when all the big intro's are reserved for electric/hybrid :(. At least, in terms of the 200C, it does reveal the look of a current model when it's redesigned next-year.

The 200C (EV):

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5870&stc=1&d=1231775762

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5871&stc=1&d=1231775762

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5872&stc=1&d=1231775769

Basically, this is probably what you're going to see with the upcoming replacement of the 300C, in terms of shape/style. The 200C is a shortened, "EV" version of the vehicle (The EV series being similar to the volt...electric power with gas generator range extender). The wheelbase is shortened to that of the challenger's, indicating the possibility that the challenger may exist into the next platform (LY) that the 300C/Charger are heading toward.

The 300C will probably have a slightly longer roof, rear door, and tail when it makes production. Otherwise, this is what it should look like.

Jeep Patriot EV:

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5873&stc=1&d=1231776092

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5874&stc=1&d=1231776092

This is perhaps the most sensible platform for the first EV vehicle imo, since they want to have these available at the dealers in early 2010. The patriot, of all their smaller vehicles, is clearly the most palatable to the buying public. The little jeep can go 40 miles on charge alone, and up to 400 on a tank of gas (10gallon), so 40 mpg if driven continously on a long trip....but the potential for far greater if you simply spend your time putzing around on short trips (like most do).

The Dodge Circuit:

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5875&stc=1&d=1231776927

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5876&stc=1&d=1231776929

Probably won't see this car in production...but it shows chryslers all-electric car powertrain "in action", so to speak. With a range of 120-200 miles, 0-60 in under 5 seconds, it's very similar to the Tesla...even using a lotus platform (Tesla design comes from lotus as well). However, unlike the tesla, whichever platform the all-electric car becomes available in, the price won't be 110,000 dollars.

My guess is that we'll never see an all-electric car from any of the so-called "big three"...BUT, we'll see a car with such range 120-250 miles, all electric with a gas generator that'll allow for ranges into the 600-800 mile range on a tank of gas.

[Voodoo Chick]

I never follow that show. I am tooooo set in my ways, resistant to change, stuck in the past to even want to know what's "cutting edge." The pictures you posted of the new cars are pretty, but.....no.

[Karps TA]

I have zero interest in electric vehicles, other then the hope that enough "other" people buy them so I can continue to burn fossil fuels at a decent price. To me having electricity running a car takes the heart out of the car. Not too mention my monthly electric bill isn't free yet. If I'm trading $100 a month of gas for $100 of electricity I'm not sure where I benefit.

I am happy to see both Ford and GM showing off some pretty nice products, like the new LaCrosse, the Caddy SRX, and the Ford Taurus and Fusions. They seem to finally be understanding that interior quality is important to many consumers. And the exterior of those cars look decent without being gaudy.

[03CVLX]

I actually heard the 200C is to be the replacement for the Sebring. I dunno which to believe or if Chrysler will even see 2010 in its current form. This will be an interesting year to watch what happens.

[Nick]

NAIAS is going to be pretty boring IMO.

Ferrari, Land Rover and Rolls Royce pull out of NAIAS

No Challenger convertible; Camaro convertible on hold

[jbiscuit]

To me having electricity running a car takes the heart out of the car. Not too mention my monthly electric bill isn't free yet. If I'm trading $100 a month of gas for $100 of electricity I'm not sure where I benefit.


Just run an extension cord over to your neighbor's house :rolf

[Prince Valiant]

I actually heard the 200C is to be the replacement for the Sebring. I'd doubt this since the 200C as you see above is a RWD vehicle.

The 200C nameplate might replace the Sebring when a replacment comes out, but I doubt they'd make their FWD mid-sized sedan replacement a RWD vehicle. I think what you see is basically the future LY (perhaps in it's entirety as they try to get vehicles lighter with future platforms), AND a hint of the future replacement for the Sebring with an all-new name (I'd be very skeptical that they'd replace such an ill-forsaken model and keep the name everyone associates with it).

The LY platform should prove to be lighter overall vs the LX, since it was a mercedes E-class that had to be brought up to crash/stiffness standards...so much was simply added to the old E-class chassis. Starting "from scratch" should reduce redundancy and therefore some weight. This is why the challenger is exceptionally heavy...as not only did it have the LX as it's base, but then to be re-engineered back to a two-door with all the side-impact changes needed, etc.


= If I'm trading $100 a month of gas for $100 of electricity I'm not sure where I benefit. IIRC, 1 gallon of gas (at whatever cost it might be), is roughly equivalent in energy to 18 cents worth of electricity. IE, at 2 dollars/gallon, a 200 buck a month gas bill would translate to 18 dollar increase in electricity cost.

So it wouldn't be a dollar for dollar trade off. This is why some vehicles like the Tesla come with "equivalent" mpg numbers...of which say the tesla roadster gets the equivalence of a car getting 135mpg.

Personally, I think what will make or break EV cars will be their price....cars like the chevy Volt are supposed to be 40,000 (there has been no pricing info on the patriot EV that I've seen)? Not many can afford such a car, and those that can and do, aren't as worried about gas prices...so the market won't be huge. Hopefully there will be just enough interest to eventually make the cost for the tech cheaper...and not too far from current gas-car prices.

Personally, I wouldn't mind owning a regular DD with this tech (my DD ain't too far from this anyways), but being able to keep gas guzzling toys (I'd like to keep a pick-up and keep a classic on hand).

[Karps TA]

But if there's more demand for electricity, the price will go up. And then there's our ridiculous winters to deal with. So your car know has to run some form of electric heat, which will drain the crap out of the batteries.

I think electric cars have their places, like Cali, and Florida, and the desert where people can run solar panels to help offset some costs. I just have way too many questions about their abilities in our climate. Not too mention I can't even get 2 years out of a cordless drill battery, so I tend to be very doubtful of them in a car lasting.

[jbiscuit]

Personally, I think what will make or break EV cars will be their price....

ding ding ding. Until ANY automaker can make a direct replacement EV car with the same sticker price, you aren't going to have a lot of people embracing the technology. The only people I have really seen go out and seek hybrids are ones that aren't affected by high gas prices to begin with do to fist fulls of cash....I swear some people buy them as a conversation starter more than anything. :rolf

[BAD LS1]

lol saturn EV-1 all over again... Will CA ban all street going EV's again? haha Cute little turbo on the jeep though.

[Prince Valiant]

But if there's more demand for electricity, the price will go upThis is true...but, I doubt you'll see an such an influx in electric cars that'll increase demand so dramatically.


And then there's our ridiculous winters to deal with. So your car know has to run some form of electric heat, which will drain the crap out of the batteries. Well, all electric, that's true...but the EV range extenders will source their heat from gasoline engine.

Like my car, it'll almost certainly operate differently in the summer than it does in the winter. My car sometimes has to resort to a back-up battery to start, with it's back-up starter even. But, it doesn't go into shut-down mode ever, and lean-burn mode

[Adam Brooks]

Saw the 200c on the road the other day actually:



























http://images.myride.com/images/vehicle/2008/BMW/6%20Series/oem/08_BMW_6_Series_7_%28768x576%29.jpg
:rolf

[Karps TA]

I just don't think the technology is quite there yet. And they are rushing product for all the wrong reasons right now. And it seems to me whenever that happens, huge mistakes get made.

[1320PNY]

The expense of the vehicle purchase is a killer, but the ramifications of battery manufacturing are worse on the environment than vehicle pollution. Also, if they do some type of super capacitor, I'm sure an accident would be as exciting as the 4th of July.

[pw_cc_runner]

I'm going to be there for the show on Saturday. I'll bring back as many pictures as possible to share :thumbsup

[Karps TA]

I'm going to be there for the show on Saturday. I'll bring back as many pictures as possible to share :thumbsup


Good luck on the pics. That show is such a zoo on the weekends it's near impossible to even sit in the cars, much less take pics without getting people in the shots. Hopefully, it'll be slow for you. It's definetly a cool show to go to though. :thumbsup

[DocDave]

Be careful for the falling signs while your there.

http://jalopnik.com/5129481/chrysler-sign-almost-decapitates-detroit-auto-show+goer?skyline=true&s=i

I know they need to save money, but really?

[moels]

I love the fact that everything good for us costs more. Healthy food costs more than the shit foods ( hence why there are more fat people in the US ) and now they want to produce vehicles that get great mpg or run strictly on electricity, but they cost too much for the person that needs every penny. lol.

Big business and the gov't are the biggest crooks in the world and I am fearful that when my kids are grown or sooner, this country will be destroyed from within. Oh well, run up those debts and enjoy life while it lasts.

[Greg@GLD]

I went Sunday.
I'm excited for Ford. They have some really nice offerings and some good things in the pipeline. The new Taurus looks like it's going to be a great car.
The Euro Festiva also looks promising, and the Mustang has some cool things in the offing for the future.

As for GM, I listened to Bob Lutz's speech... I think Ford will do the "electric car" thing better and faster than The General.
They unveiled a Cadillac "One" which is an electric Caddy that can go 40 miles on a single charge. How many do they think they will sell??

We were well fed by the Jaguar and Lambo displays. The Lambo babes are always a treat. :)

http://www.gregscars.com/images/A_6/6/5/9/49566/DSC07883_e167c.JPG

http://www.gregscars.com/images/A_6/6/5/9/49566/DSC07884_e72d7.JPG

Challenger:

http://www.gregscars.com/images/A_6/6/5/9/49566/DSC07935_e9cc8.JPG

This was the only Camaro on display at GM:

http://www.gregscars.com/images/A_6/6/5/9/49566/DSC07811_a82bb.JPG


2010 Shelby was beautiful...

http://www.gregscars.com/images/A_6/6/5/9/49566/DSC07874_86c85.JPG


I had a great time. Much nicer to go as a media member than the clusterfuck public show...

[shoooo32]

I know all the hippies are clamoring for an electric car but lets face it... the big three can't engineer a competitive gasoline powered car. These new hybrids from Ford and Chrysler are striking but what happens after 36k miles? I'll let somebody else find out.

[Car Guy]

I know all the hippies are clamoring for an electric car but lets face it... the big three can't engineer a competitive gasoline powered car. These new hybrids from Ford and Chrysler are striking but what happens after 36k miles? I'll let somebody else find out.

I'm :wstupid x 2,000,000; been saying that for years.....:D

[pw_cc_runner]

I'm going to upload about a 100 pictures over night and post a link in the morning...

[Holeshot]

Im no hippie but I would like an electric car for running around town an short trips. Had the UAW no been so greedy the money might have been there for more investments in hybrid / electric vehicles. Don't get me wrong big executives should have there nuts twisted too.

We think we have it bad with fuel pricing but look at Germany and other European countries. They have been paying $2.79 a litre = $8.60 a gallon. I love my gas fed engines and my guzzling GTO but I would like to put my hard earned dollars to better use.

Supply and demand will give it more marketability if we have to pay that kind of money for fuel. Thats why Mass Transit is so huge everyplace but the US.

[Waver]

It is going to be interesting in the next few months, at least from my stand point, with the staggered launching of the all new for 2009/2010 models from ford (flex, F-150, Fusion, Taurus, Mustang) as well as a few more that are yet to have their US introduction......honestly, the redesign of the taurus is what they should of done in the first place

[michelle]

Will the Taurus save Ford again?
































(:

[Greg@GLD]

Will the Taurus save Ford again? (:

Well Michelle... I was living in Southern California back in the early 80's, and I was shocked at how many people owned imports out there back then, it hadn't "hit" the midwest yet. And save for the 1982 Mustang GT and the Ranger pickups, Fords were not very popular in Los Angeles. When the Taurus hit the showrooms, they got rave reviews and it became a very popular car in California and put Ford back on the map, and yes, many people credit the original Taurus with turning Ford around completely.

The new Taurus is not just a nameplate revival! The car looks fantastic and I hope it is a key element in the longterm survival of Ford. Ford seems to be way more in touch with what the "problems" are and are a good 2 years or so ahead of GM and Chrysler in terms of a turnaround.

And yes there is a lot of talk of "SHO" type versions of the new Taurus. ;)

[pw_cc_runner]

I forgot to come back and post a link. A few random ones are missing for some reason but most of them are there from the show and the Henry Ford. Enjoy

http://epmazdasport.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4179

[shoooo32]

And yes there is a lot of talk of "SHO" type versions of the new Taurus. ;)

in the flesh...
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/shoooo32/2010-Ford-Taurus-SHO.jpg

[michelle]

Not a proven guarantee it's the SHO. Yet.