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Lash
12-30-2008, 06:15 PM
What are you keeping loaded in case you have to 'bust a cap'?

Breecher_7
12-30-2008, 06:30 PM
Depends on the gun... Specifics?

12 GA, 2 3/4" Winchester Super X 00 Buckshot
M4 5.56mm Green Tip FMJ
.40 Federal Hydra Shok JHP's In the XD.

Those are the 3 loaded guns in my house.

Lash
12-30-2008, 06:48 PM
I gotta restock for my .40

Don't know if I should go with the hydra shok's or PowR balls.

Breecher_7
12-30-2008, 06:49 PM
Ive seen what they all do to bulletproof Glass. Ill stick with the Hydra Shok's or Cor Bon JHP's :thumbsup

GR8COM
12-30-2008, 06:53 PM
Lets see

Glock 23 Speer Lawman .40 S&W 180 grain (hollow point)
Glock 22 Hornady .40 S&W 180 grain TAP (hollow point)
12 GA Hornady TAP 00 Buckshot
AR-15 Hornady .223 TAP 60GR followed up by unknown 55GR FMJ rounds.

Lash
12-30-2008, 06:56 PM
What grain are you shooting in the hydra shoks? 155?

Breecher_7
12-30-2008, 06:59 PM
165 Grain For the .40.

And this is why I use the Super X Winchester Buckshot. From 20 yards it went ALL THE WAY through the truck. This is what sold me on it. I always used Federal prior to this. But the federal rounds barley made it through the first side.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/07%20Silverado%202500/DSCN1853.jpg

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:02 PM
my .45 220 grain fmj

Breecher_7
12-30-2008, 07:03 PM
my .45 220 grain fmj

:thumbsup

Curious though, why not a hollow point for self defense? Better round for stoping someone DEAD in there tracks.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:05 PM
I really would like to keep my 9mm 17 in the clip one in the chamber,but the immensely huge stopping power that the .45 has even tho i think it only holds 8 rounds is just to great to not use it,plus it only takes one. the 9mm has a lazer on it tho so maybe i keep them both loaded and in my new safe

Russ Jerome
12-30-2008, 07:33 PM
I have Daisy pellets in my Benjamin Co2 pistol to piss em
off enough to enter the premisis, after that if they make it
by my screaming girls they are too tough for me to want to
mess with...doh!

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:37 PM
:thumbsup

Curious though, why not a hollow point for self defense? Better round for stoping someone DEAD in there tracks.

i dont think i can get a 220 hollow point at least i have not seen any in the stores most are 180.

Breecher_7
12-30-2008, 07:39 PM
i dont think i can get a 220 hollow point at least i have not seen any in the stores most are 180.

A 180JHP is going to do more damage then a 220FMJ. A 220FMJ is just going to go straight through them most likely. A 180JHP is going to impact and explode... A straight through shot gives better chance of survival. Shrapnell in your body, no good.

Cor Bon Makes a 230 Grain JHP if you must have the biggest factory loaded .45 JHP.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:49 PM
yeah a straight threw shot from a 45 will pretty much kill,maime and or dismember both,I feel pretty safe at that point.

Lash
12-30-2008, 09:49 PM
yeah a straight threw shot from a 45 will pretty much kill,maime and or dismember both

You'd be suprised on how untrue that statement is.

Rocket Power
12-30-2008, 10:09 PM
165 Grain For the .40.

And this is why I use the Super X Winchester Buckshot. From 20 yards it went ALL THE WAY through the truck. This is what sold me on it. I always used Federal prior to this. But the federal rounds barley made it through the first side.

If I'm shooting at someone in a truck, I ain't using buckshot:goof
It's rifle time

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 10:19 PM
I would disagree my 45 would prolly tear your arm off or close to it

Rocket Power
12-30-2008, 10:21 PM
You'd be suprised on how untrue that statement is.

True dat. You want big wound cavity and energy dump in the target.

Just about all the major manufactures HP's are good, pick the one that works best in your gun. Accuracy and reliable feeding.
I have no trouble with protecting myself with a 9, .40 or .45. I mean between a 9 and 45 we are talking .10", not an RPG and a .22:goof

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 10:23 PM
check the grain behind the projectile that makes a huge difference also.i would take a 45 over a 9mm for stopping power anyday.

Taetsch Z-24
12-30-2008, 10:27 PM
For the M9, 147Gr Hyda Shok.
AR, Green Tip "Ball" rounds.
1911's 230 Gr JHP.
Shot Gun, 3" '00' Buck shot.
.30 Carbine, 110 JHP
G3, 165 Gr FMJ (In case some Varmints have a Armored hide.)

Chris

Lash
12-30-2008, 10:38 PM
I would disagree my 45 would prolly tear your arm off or close to it

I bet you'd only see a smaller than dime size entry and a penny size exit. Arm still in place :) FMJ's leave clean entry and exit wounds. A good penetrating HP will tear you the f*** up.


The FMJ cant even tear up a plastic milk container...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXcXVvRuJ8&feature=related




:thumbsup

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 10:48 PM
sure a plastic milk container has no mass,the pumpkins we shot this summer had teeny entries and a four inch hole out the back,im not denying a hollow point is destructive,but unless youve been shot by one or the other really can any of you say what it will or wont do,when that fmj hits you shoulder bone and explodes let me know how that feels. plus im a good shot so if you get hit in the face you die anyway lol

HITMAN
12-30-2008, 11:35 PM
.38 special +P blue tip Glaser Safety Slugs. 80grain pre-fragmented copper jacket filled with #12 shot, traveling at 1250fps. Any hit will maim or kill without having to worry about killing my neighbors. No over penetration, no ricochets, it just dumps the load in the target or self-destructs in a wall or off of a hard surface. A head shot would be VERY ugly indeed...

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 05:31 AM
Coop im gonna have to agree with the other guys. Ive seen .45 gunshot wounds before and like I said, they go right through pretty clean. Unless you hit a bone head on, they usually are not that messy. in and out. Regardless of how big the round is. Hell ive seen .50 cal wounds that you would think were done by a 30 cal round. Ive unfortunatly seen way to many dead arabs in my lifetime.

Reverend Cooper
12-31-2008, 05:54 AM
Its cool, I really dont think if the rounds I use hit the target that they will stay around to long. Im not dissin' hollow poiints,I guess I just have enough confidence in the weapon,ammo and owner/operator that I will be fine, if I really need to the shotty is right there to with 00 in it.

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 06:13 AM
If you hit the person, the odds of them surviving is slim regardless of the ammo. But also, regardless of how good a shot you think you are.. When darkness, pannic, and uncertainty are involved, it can make the best marksman a worthless target. I will never forget the first time my unit took live fire, it took me a good solid 10 seconds before I realised what was going on. Its the initial shock of "is this really happening"? After a while I became numb to it, but the first time it happens, look out.

Taetsch Z-24
12-31-2008, 06:48 AM
Ive unfortunatly seen way to many dead arabs in my lifetime.


Didn't know that was possible.......................

Chris

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 07:04 AM
Didn't know that was possible.......................

Chris

Mabey you prefer to many dead american soldiers....

Bullets dont discriminate....

ND4SPD
12-31-2008, 10:26 AM
Let's see... in the M2 and Model 12... 2-3/4" 00 Buckshot, and in the USP .45... Winchester Ranger Lawman +P (basically +P Black Talons). The M4 has 5.56 Federal FMJ, and can't remember what's in the M1 clips. Remington .30-06 something. I used to have CorBon 230gr +P, but I ended up using those up blasting pop cans and full milk jugs with them. Was way too much fun comparing the standard .45 loads to the Cor Bon +Ps.

The reason FMJ is used in "civilized" conflict is because exactly as Breecher said, the FMJs go right through... wounding, instead of killing. They don't spend their energy inside the body cavity the way a hollow-point does. This does have the advantage of taking what... three people out of action instead of just one, since you need an additional 1 to 3 people to treat said wounded. This of course was back in the days when you had primarily uniformed armies fighting each other. If we're going to be fighting Jihadists... who's primary aspiration is to die in service to Allah, maybe we need to switch to expanding projectiles.

By the way people... you just wait and watch. The libs, ACLU, and the like want to extend constitutional rights given to American Citizens to enemy combatants. What's next? Geneva Convention protections for domestic criminals? Can't use hollow points to protect yourself and your family anymore... you need to use FMJs in hopes to only "wound" the home invader.

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 10:46 AM
By the way people... you just wait and watch. The libs, ACLU, and the like want to extend constitutional rights given to American Citizens to enemy combatants. What's next? Geneva Convention protections for domestic criminals? Can't use hollow points to protect yourself and your family anymore... you need to use FMJs in hopes to only "wound" the home invader.


Geneva Convention :rolf Now thats funny.... I dont know of any country that abides by the Geneva Convention's rules of detaining a prisoner of war.... Other then the US, and even we are treading a thin line in most cases.

War doesnt have rules, Plain and simple.... Some people would like to believe it does.. :alcoholic

Especially my favorite ones, The Rules of Engagement.. :rolf yeah, ok :rolleyes:

STANMAN
12-31-2008, 01:18 PM
If I was going to use a 1911 for home defense, it would have what Coop has in his, that's what they are made to shoot, and they tend to get finicky with HP's from all the shooting I have done. Granted, a good mag (Wilson), and a nicely tuned 1911 will shoot just about anything, but one thing that is 100% critical in a self defense gun is reliability. That's why I have 2 Glocks in my bedroom gun safe, one with a M6 tactical laser/light combo, and one with Trijicon night sites, and then there's the Remington 870 behind the door if there's more fun to be had than the Glocks can handle.

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 01:24 PM
If I was going to use a 1911 for home defense, it would have what Coop has in his, that's what they are made to shoot, and they tend to get finicky with HP's from all the shooting I have done. Granted, a good mag (Wilson), and a nicely tuned 1911 will shoot just about anything, but one thing that is 100% critical in a self defense gun is reliability. That's why I have 2 Glocks in my bedroom gun safe, one with a M6 tactical laser/light combo, and one with Trijicon night sites, and then there's the Remington 870 behind the door if there's more fun to be had than the Glocks can handle.

The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

STANMAN
12-31-2008, 02:13 PM
The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

Yep, that's me, just a bunch of cheap junk in my safes:rolleyes: Usually the more modified a gun is, the harder time it has to shoot the hollow points (unless it's modded as a defense gun that is, but most modded guns are competition guns). Like my 70 series Gold Cup won't shoot them at all, but that's not what it was made for, it was made for shooting 230 grain FMJ's, very accurately. Most modern 1911's are not made like the older 1911's and will shoot anything. My Kimber has no problems, nor most of my Springfield Armory's, my "classic" Springfield does, but again, it's made to shoot 230 grain ball. My WWI era Reminton Rand, it doesn't like them so much either:rolf

STANMAN
12-31-2008, 02:14 PM
The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

And no, a 1911 would never be a home defense gun to me. They do make awesome carry weapons though, so slim and easy to conceal. Then again, if I were to pack, it would still be a .............guesses welcome:goof

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 03:34 PM
And no, a 1911 would never be a home defense gun to me. They do make awesome carry weapons though, so slim and easy to conceal. Then again, if I were to pack, it would still be a .............guesses welcome:goof

the plastic fantastic otherwise known as the Glock? :rolf I think youve got me wrong bob. I dont think the GLock is a bad gun.. I just dont like how it feels, to loose for my taste.

Rocket Power
12-31-2008, 04:15 PM
the plastic fantastic otherwise known as the Glock?
Damn that's what I was gonna say:rolf

ND4SPD
12-31-2008, 05:11 PM
If you want a .45 that won't jam, you need an HK. Out of mine, my brother's, and my friends there have only been two jams. Once on my buddy's when he was using a CCI shot round, and once on my brother's using garbage Wolf ammo. :D

Silver86
12-31-2008, 05:45 PM
http://www.freewebs.com/1428crystallake/bat3.jpg

STANMAN
12-31-2008, 06:01 PM
If you want a .45 that won't jam, you need an HK. Out of mine, my brother's, and my friends there have only been two jams. Once on my buddy's when he was using a CCI shot round, and once on my brother's using garbage Wolf ammo. :D

As in the USP? It's a nicer version of a Glock. I am suprised you had it jam on you with the Wolf. Yeah, it is steel cased and you can't reload it obviously, but other than that it's decent ammo. HK's are generally the same as Glocks, very non finicky when it comes to ammo. Odd.

Taetsch Z-24
12-31-2008, 07:03 PM
Mabey you prefer to many dead american soldiers....

Bullets dont discriminate....

Wrong.


Did not know we could kill enough of them.


Chris

Taetsch Z-24
12-31-2008, 07:07 PM
As in the USP? It's a nicer version of a Glock. Odd.

WTF did you really just put a ******* glock on the level with a HK?


wow


Chris

HRSEPLA
12-31-2008, 07:07 PM
Quote: [Wrong.


Did not know we could kill enough of them.


Chris]




As in "I too, did not realize that there was an excess to the amount of Arabs that we could kill":thumbsup

STANMAN
12-31-2008, 08:04 PM
WTF did you really just put a ******* glock on the level with a HK?


wow


Chris

No, I made a comparison between two polymer framed pistols, if you read my post I clearly state that the HK is a finer version of a Glock.

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 08:14 PM
No, I made a comparison between two polymer framed pistols, if you read my post I clearly state that the HK is a finer version of a Glock.

Ill put them on the same level as the Glock... Im a fan of HK's assault weapons but there pistols, I dont like. Ive never had any of my kimbers or my xd.45 ACP jam on me. My XD has a easy 1000 rounds through it, alot of it rapid fire on a tactical range. Not one Jam up. Matter of fact, ive never had any of my XD's jam on me other then the 9mm. Truth be told, I would take a GLOCK over a HK. There less particular, they will take more of a beating. And I do/have owned glocks and HK's in the past.

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 08:20 PM
Wrong.


Did not know we could kill enough of them.


Chris

Be responsible for ending the lives of innocent men, women and children that are considered "collateral damage" and your tune will change.

You cant hold arab people in general responsible for the bullshit over there.

SlowStee
12-31-2008, 08:45 PM
XD has a Magazine with 13 rounds of .45ACP Federal Hydrashock JHPs loaded.


XD Owners :headbang

Taetsch Z-24
12-31-2008, 09:42 PM
Be responsible for ending the lives of innocent men, women and children that are considered "collateral damage" and your tune will change.

You cant hold arab people in general responsible for the bullshit over there.

I would have no problem doing it.

Guess that's why in enlisted in the first place.

And it is there responsibility for jumping the northern broader every night to come to try to kill us.

But because there not shooting at us, our ROE says "don't shoot"

Anywho...

XD's are nice, but I just cant get used to them....IDN, i like my Officers 1911.

only stoppages i have had with it were with flectcher's reloads...
it eats JHP's up no problem.



Chris

Breecher_7
12-31-2008, 09:56 PM
I would have no problem doing it.

Guess that's why in enlisted in the first place.

And it is there responsibility for jumping the northern broader every night to come to try to kill us.

But because there not shooting at us, our ROE says "don't shoot"

Anywho...

XD's are nice, but I just cant get used to them....IDN, i like my Officers 1911.

only stoppages i have had with it were with flectcher's reloads...
it eats JHP's up no problem.



Chris


You enlisted to kill arabs?

You "would" have no problem doing it? I am therefor assuming you have never been in a live fire combat situation or in the middle of a war zone? Those are big words for someone that has never experienced the psychological hell that killing another human being puts on you. I was unlucky enough to be in the middle bullshit for most of my time served.

When we went house to house in Falujah looking for insurgents not a single day went by that a fatal shot wasnt fired. Things I saw and did in Iraq and Afganistan will haunt me for the rest of my life.

This issue strikes a nerve with me and I get the wannabe tough guy that doesnt know shit jarhead vibe from you.

ND4SPD
12-31-2008, 10:05 PM
As in the USP? It's a nicer version of a Glock. I am suprised you had it jam on you with the Wolf. Yeah, it is steel cased and you can't reload it obviously, but other than that it's decent ammo. HK's are generally the same as Glocks, very non finicky when it comes to ammo. Odd.

Yes as in the USP. I'm surprised my bro's jammed with the Wolf ammo too... the ammo was probably defective. Believe it or not the gun store he bought the ammunition from gave him a full refund for the ammo after my brother showed them what the ammo had jammed up in. :D "Oh, a USP... here's your money back."

Taetsch Z-24
12-31-2008, 10:30 PM
Why was Navy EOD going House to House?

Chris

HITMAN
01-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Why was Navy EOD going House to House?

Chris

Just thinking the same thing...

Breecher_7
01-01-2009, 06:21 AM
Just thinking the same thing...

IED's, Plain and simple. Luckily we didnt have to deal with a huge percentage of it, id say 70% of the initial meet and greets were done by the marine infantry and we followed up. The other 30% were highly suspected for IED's from the get go, points of interest, so we were sent in as a first wave to stop a issue if there is one and there usually was...

Breecher_7
01-01-2009, 06:30 AM
Why was Navy EOD going House to House?

Chris

Got your PM, ill get back to you.

Lash
01-02-2009, 10:49 PM
Speaking of defense rounds...


Whats up with all these ammo places being out of top line hollow points...and not carrying them anymore?

Rocket Power
01-02-2009, 11:40 PM
Obama-mania.
People went fu*king nutty buying stuff and even distributors are slow to fill back up.

That_Guy
01-03-2009, 03:04 AM
ive got 3 loaded firearms in my room.

1300 defender packed with slugs
one of my sks's with 120 wolf hp's
and my grandpa's colt gov. 380 auto that he gave me a month ago 90-Grain hp

Lash
01-03-2009, 09:44 AM
ive got 3 loaded firearms in my room.

1300 defender packed with slugs
one of my sks's with 120 wolf hp's
and my grandpa's colt gov. 380 auto that he gave me a month ago 90-Grain hp

So...really all you have fo SD is the defender?
:shades

That_Guy
01-03-2009, 11:11 AM
So...really all you have fo SD is the defender?
:shades

:rolf i figured somebody would say something like that.. a 380 auto isnt my dream caliber. but if placed properly it should do the trick. in march when i get my Springfield xd i plan on getting it in a s&w 40.

Reverend Cooper
01-03-2009, 11:13 AM
my wife has a 380 bersa,not much smaller than a 9mm round,i dont think i would wanna get shot to many times by that,at least you will get their attention

MurphysLaw88GT
01-03-2009, 03:50 PM
I rock claymores

Rocket Power
01-03-2009, 04:37 PM
ive got 3 loaded firearms in my room.

1300 defender packed with slugs
one of my sks's with 120 wolf hp's
and my grandpa's colt gov. 380 auto that he gave me a month ago 90-Grain hp

How many people do you think are going to break in at one time:rolf
And I'd go buckshot on the 1300;)

That_Guy
01-03-2009, 04:58 PM
How many people do you think are going to break in at one time:rolf
And I'd go buckshot on the 1300;)

i watch alot of personal defense tv. everything is placed to maximize my defenses.. :rolf

73Dustr
01-03-2009, 05:14 PM
JHPs FTW! I am not a huge fan of FMJ. Like many others have already mentioned, they have a tendency to zip right through with little deformation. You need something that will cause a lot of tissue damage/shock as it enters. Majority of bullets designed for hunting do just that (with the exception of big, big game rounds ie African game where the bullet is not designed to frag or expand as much so it can penetrate deeper).

Another thing is the FMJ can zip right through walls, which poses an entirely different hazard to surrounding people in other rooms, houses, etc. Just my two.

Breecher_7
01-03-2009, 06:19 PM
I rock claymores

:thumbsup

HITMAN
01-03-2009, 11:54 PM
my wife has a 380 bersa,not much smaller than a 9mm round,i dont think i would wanna get shot to many times by that,at least you will get their attention

The .380 is also known as the 9mm kurz (German for "short") in other parts of the world.

I used to have an AMT Backup in .380 for carry purposes when I was a Stinkerton. However, since I really like to familiarize myself with any gun I'm going risk my life on, I put 50 rounds of +P through that nasty little bitch. It was no goddamn good for anything beyond 7 yards and it beat the shit out my hand way worse than any hand cannon I've shot, including my first handgun, a Ruger Super Blackhawk that I installed Pachmeyer neoprene grips on. (noob dumbass that I was...:durr) I promptly traded the POS in on my first 1911... and my love of John Browning designs began...:shades

Reverend Cooper
01-04-2009, 12:44 AM
I am quite suprised my wifes is very accurate up to 20-yards for a small gun its ok.

HITMAN
01-04-2009, 12:46 AM
JHPs FTW! I am not a huge fan of FMJ. Like many others have already mentioned, they have a tendency to zip right through with little deformation. You need something that will cause a lot of tissue damage/shock as it enters. Majority of bullets designed for hunting do just that (with the exception of big, big game rounds ie African game where the bullet is not designed to frag or expand as much so it can penetrate deeper).

Another thing is the FMJ can zip right through walls, which poses an entirely different hazard to surrounding people in other rooms, houses, etc. Just my two.

There are a couple of things not being mentioned here in regards to JHP ammunition. First of all, in something like .45ACP where the bullet doesn't have a lot of velocity (.45ACP is, for the most part, a sub-sonic round) most conventional JHP bullets fail to expand reliably. You need to get the more specialized rounds (+P and the big gaping hollow points like Golden Saber, Hydra-Shock, etc.) to get the most out of those slower moving bullets. Without some throating work, some of these rounds can jam, as they don't feed nearly as well as the FMJ rounds the gun was designed for. While FMJ bullets clearly wont expand going through soft tissue like a HP can, shot placement will more than make for any deficiencies in expansion. I like Glasers, especially in an auto loader, because they feed more reliably due to the round plastic tip and they don't so much expand as explode inside soft tissue...:devil

Also, it was mentioned above about FMJ going through walls. So can a JHP, especially the ones that have rapid expanding large cavities. The bullet hits drywall, the cavity fills with plaster, and now you have a nice solid bullet traveling into your kid's room or your neighbor's kid's room...:wow Once again, Glasers will most likely explode on impact with a wall, instead of going through it. Hence the name, "Safety Slug". ;)

HITMAN
01-04-2009, 12:59 AM
I am quite suprised my wifes is very accurate up to 20-yards for a small gun its ok.

I had a Bersa, in .32ACP I believe, a long time ago. It wasn't a bad little gun, more of a medium/small frame piece. That AMT I owned was derringer sized and it had no sights to speak of. The grip was so tiny that it put all the recoil pressure on just a small area on your palm. If I'm gonna fuck up my hand, I'd rather do it with something more aggressive than a .380.

Reverend Cooper
01-04-2009, 01:18 AM
Hers is a Bersa thunder 380 its cool for such a little gun she likes to shoot it too

Taetsch Z-24
01-04-2009, 01:37 AM
My SA Government 1911 and my Rock Island Officers 1911 have no problems feeding Remington 230 Gr Hollow points.....

The only thing I carry is a 1911, Cocked, and Locked.

John Browning....


King of Firearm design.

Chris

MurphysLaw88GT
01-04-2009, 01:56 AM
JMB was a pimp

HITMAN
01-04-2009, 02:52 AM
My SA Government 1911 and my Rock Island Officers 1911 have no problems feeding Remington 230 Gr Hollow points.....

The only thing I carry is a 1911, Cocked, and Locked.

John Browning....


King of Firearm design.

Chris

If you had an older GI gun, you MIGHT have an issue. Newer guns are designed for modern ammo, so they have factory thoated feed ramps and enlarged ejection ports.

+ a million on the Browning comment... :thumbsup

73Dustr
01-04-2009, 04:22 PM
There are a couple of things not being mentioned here in regards to JHP ammunition. First of all, in something like .45ACP where the bullet doesn't have a lot of velocity (.45ACP is, for the most part, a sub-sonic round) most conventional JHP bullets fail to expand reliably. You need to get the more specialized rounds (+P and the big gaping hollow points like Golden Saber, Hydra-Shock, etc.) to get the most out of those slower moving bullets. Without some throating work, some of these rounds can jam, as they don't feed nearly as well as the FMJ rounds the gun was designed for. While FMJ bullets clearly wont expand going through soft tissue like a HP can, shot placement will more than make for any deficiencies in expansion. I like Glasers, especially in an auto loader, because they feed more reliably due to the round plastic tip and they don't so much expand as explode inside soft tissue...:devil

Also, it was mentioned above about FMJ going through walls. So can a JHP, especially the ones that have rapid expanding large cavities. The bullet hits drywall, the cavity fills with plaster, and now you have a nice solid bullet traveling into your kid's room or your neighbor's kid's room...:wow Once again, Glasers will most likely explode on impact with a wall, instead of going through it. Hence the name, "Safety Slug". ;)

You do bring up some good points. As for jamming, every individual gun has its likes and dislikes with ammo. That's why reloading is so much fun, but that's a whole different topic. I also agree that shot placement is the most important aspect. FMJ or JHP, if it's placed in the right spot, it'll do the job.

I do agree that JHP can go through walls as well, but I think FMJ are more likely to. Certainly a lot of variables come into play. I have never shot any Glasers, but certainly something I'll look into.

Taetsch Z-24
01-04-2009, 04:54 PM
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_MK19_on_M3_Tripod_lg.jpg


This is a good Deference weapon.....

shot placement is not THAT big of a deal here....:rolf

230 Gr JHP with my .45.. tried and true.


Chris

ND4SPD
01-05-2009, 09:32 AM
my wife has a 380 bersa,not much smaller than a 9mm round,i dont think i would wanna get shot to many times by that,at least you will get their attention

My wife has a Bersa .380 too. It's basically a short 9MM round. She might have to empty the clip into someone... but there's always my .45 for backup. It's a great pistol for women because it has about the same recoil as a pellet gun and at least the projectile is bigger than a .22.

That_Guy
01-05-2009, 10:06 AM
My wife has a Bersa .380 too. It's basically a short 9MM round. She might have to empty the clip into someone... but there's always my .45 for backup. It's a great pistol for women because it has about the same recoil as a pellet gun and at least the projectile is bigger than a .22.

this is true.. in most self defense classes that they say most altercations are over in 3 seconds... and with a gun that doesnt have major kick and some stopping power you can get quite a few rounds off. and at that point in time it doesnt matter how quality you shot is its all about quantity :rolf

ND4SPD
01-05-2009, 04:01 PM
Well, I found that out pretty much target shooting with her .380. I basically turned the silhouette's chest into swiss cheese rapid fire. Whereas with my .45 I have to deal with a little more recoil. But, I figure a couple of well placed center of body mass shots with the .45 is all it's going to take.

Rocket Power
01-05-2009, 05:38 PM
My wife used to have a .380 Makarov and a .380 taurus Mil Pro. The recoil didn't seem that much less than a 9mm, I just don't get the appeal of them I guess because between the 2 I'd rather have the 9 . But yeah a bunch of .380's in a small area will make someone have a bad day:rolf