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View Full Version : So when does Brett start the crying routine?



Yooformula
12-28-2008, 06:20 PM
no playoffs and the guy he replaced kicked his a$s on the field and turned around a wasted team. every dolphin credits chad with turning their team around yet NOBODY says crap about Brett except maybe...damm another int?

Reverend Cooper
12-28-2008, 06:23 PM
he may be at bens bedside crying not understanding why he thinks he's batman

theavenger333
12-28-2008, 08:31 PM
he's done. can't possibly see how he comes back after a truly poor season. it's a shame, he could have left on a totally high note last year

Car Guy
12-28-2008, 09:10 PM
Sad but true.....:rolleyes:

Yooformula
12-28-2008, 09:19 PM
now hes whining that he didnt get along with mangini and that he didnt like being criticized for bad throws...what a fuggin baby! totally going out on a bad note AGAIN especially since now he will wait to see how his shoulder is because he is old.

Lash
12-28-2008, 10:01 PM
He'll be back to poping pills by the end of the year.

nismodave
12-28-2008, 10:13 PM
I was never aware it stopped.

Bobby "Big Daddy" Flay
12-28-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm with Yoosef on this. Someone get that bitch a diaper and a nook

Yooformula
12-28-2008, 11:00 PM
poetic justice that the guy that got the boot because of him beat him on his turf. course it would suck if the dolphins won the sb..lol

Chadwich
12-29-2008, 02:00 AM
I thought I had seen something on the TV that said Friday.
“Farve doesn’t think he can throw like he use too.”
Hang it up already
I hope he pulls the same crap he pulled with the packers.
New York will have a field day with him then.

TraceDaddy
12-29-2008, 03:46 PM
Meanwhile our QB with the fantasy football stats led us to a 6-10 record. (2 of them against the Lions) I'd trade whining for winning.

Lash
12-29-2008, 03:50 PM
Meanwhile our QB with the fantasy football stats led us to a 6-10 record. (2 of them against the Lions) I'd trade whining for winning.

Not me. They can keep Brett.

Karps TA
12-29-2008, 03:56 PM
That OL that the Jets paid so much money for was pathetic. Pennington would have been out injured AGAIN had he been in NY. He should be happy that he got out and let an old man take the beating. It reminded me of the Packer line 2-3 years ago after Wahl and Riviera left and Favre was getting destroyed every week.

I'd take Favre over anyone up until about the second week of Nov. Once the weather gets cold, he's not the same guy. It's called being old. I'm 35 and the winters seem to kick my ass more and more each year.

94greenbandit
12-29-2008, 04:01 PM
Anytime you throw more INTs than TDs you know you suck or at least you should

TraceDaddy
12-29-2008, 04:12 PM
Not me.

Then you miss the point of the game. Stats don't get you anything but a trip home.

The non-football discussions do get tiring but here is the reality. We were 6-10!!! 2 of those wins are against an 0-16 team. 2 were against less than stellar division opponents. This team, 13-3 last year, returned almost completely intact with the exception of the QB position. Our "rookie" QB had 3 years of experience in the system. He knew all the players and coaches. He could not have been put in a better position to succeed than he was.

And his stats reflect that. Very impressive if you play FFL. (I might even draft him as my 2nd QB next year.) The name of the game, however, is wins. There is no denying the fact that we were 0-7 in close games. A system can go a long ways toward getting you to the doorstep. (Look what a change in system did for Pennington.) It's the playmakers that get you over the threshold. The Packers had one in Favre, they don't any more. (Maybe that's why McCarthy played not to lose. He didn't have complete faith in Rodgers either.) What good is saving a QB rating by NOT making the hard passes. The ones that win games. "Congratulations! You didn't throw a pick in the end zone but we still lost by 4 points." Maybe you make the throw and we win. Maybe not. But a loss is a loss and I'd rather take a stab at it than accumulate fantasy points.

I'm glad that Rodgers has poise and class. Maybe that would win him a crown in the Miss USA pageant. It didn't do crap for us. Maybe a little less poise would've helped. We need someone to lead this team. Someone with some fire in the belly to make that final push when the game is on the line. Right now we've got nothing. No confidence or swagger. And we're not going to get that by continuing to build by the draft. We need impact veteran players.

Favre in NY. Yup. The experiment was a flop. Thompson dragged his feet until Brett had 2 weeks to get familiar with a completely new system and a complete roster of strangers. You could tell from the very beginning that he wasn't comfortable. And without the confidence that helped the Packers get through rough spots, there was nothing left to help the Jets. Thompson effectively killed two birds with one stone. The Packers and Brett Favre's final year. Still, Brett came to a team that was 4-12 and helped them get to 9-7. (Sound familiar? Like maybe what happened between 1991 and 1992 in GB.) Favre is obviously at the end of the line. And Rodgers, if for no other reason than he's here, is the future of the Packers. That future didn't have to start though until 2009.

T-Bag
12-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Favre failed miserably in New York. Who cares if a team went from 4-12 and not making the playoffs to signing a bunch of decent players besides Favre and going 9-7 and not making the playoffs. That shit happens all the time.

He looked good the first few games...but even in the wins (besides that 6 touchdown game) he looked VERY mediocre at best.

It takes a team to go 6-10, not just one player. Just like it takes a team to win. Bob Sanders will be very lucky if he has his job for next season.

Lash
12-29-2008, 07:12 PM
Favre looked great in the beginning of the season so there's no excuse. Chad was in the same situation as Brett....so wheres that excuse?

Lead the league in int's all while only throwing 2 TD's and 9 int's in the last 5 games to take them out of the postseason....you can keep him.

theavenger333
12-30-2008, 12:06 AM
Then you miss the point of the game. Stats don't get you anything but a trip home.

The non-football discussions do get tiring but here is the reality. We were 6-10!!! 2 of those wins are against an 0-16 team. 2 were against less than stellar division opponents. This team, 13-3 last year, returned almost completely intact with the exception of the QB position. Our "rookie" QB had 3 years of experience in the system. He knew all the players and coaches. He could not have been put in a better position to succeed than he was.

And his stats reflect that. Very impressive if you play FFL. (I might even draft him as my 2nd QB next year.) The name of the game, however, is wins. There is no denying the fact that we were 0-7 in close games. A system can go a long ways toward getting you to the doorstep. (Look what a change in system did for Pennington.) It's the playmakers that get you over the threshold. The Packers had one in Favre, they don't any more. (Maybe that's why McCarthy played not to lose. He didn't have complete faith in Rodgers either.) What good is saving a QB rating by NOT making the hard passes. The ones that win games. "Congratulations! You didn't throw a pick in the end zone but we still lost by 4 points." Maybe you make the throw and we win. Maybe not. But a loss is a loss and I'd rather take a stab at it than accumulate fantasy points.

I'm glad that Rodgers has poise and class. Maybe that would win him a crown in the Miss USA pageant. It didn't do crap for us. Maybe a little less poise would've helped. We need someone to lead this team. Someone with some fire in the belly to make that final push when the game is on the line. Right now we've got nothing. No confidence or swagger. And we're not going to get that by continuing to build by the draft. We need impact veteran players.

Favre in NY. Yup. The experiment was a flop. Thompson dragged his feet until Brett had 2 weeks to get familiar with a completely new system and a complete roster of strangers. You could tell from the very beginning that he wasn't comfortable. And without the confidence that helped the Packers get through rough spots, there was nothing left to help the Jets. Thompson effectively killed two birds with one stone. The Packers and Brett Favre's final year. Still, Brett came to a team that was 4-12 and helped them get to 9-7. (Sound familiar? Like maybe what happened between 1991 and 1992 in GB.) Favre is obviously at the end of the line. And Rodgers, if for no other reason than he's here, is the future of the Packers. That future didn't have to start though until 2009.





if you're dumb enough to automatically assume that Brett Favre would have won more games then Aaron Rodgers with this current team, you're a fool. the QB was NOT the problem for the packers this year.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 08:00 AM
If make the assumption that Rodgers is the superior QB while only winning 6 games then I can make the assumption, based on wins that count, and not stats that don't, then you're the fool.

It's convenient that you choose to discard my comment that Favre was a flop in NY. There is no denying that. Based on wins, Rodgers isn't any better in GB.

Waver
12-30-2008, 10:32 AM
If make the assumption that Rodgers is the superior QB while only winning 6 games then I can make the assumption, based on wins that count, and not stats that don't, then you're the fool.

It's convenient that you choose to discard my comment that Favre was a flop in NY. There is no denying that. Based on wins, Rodgers isn't any better in GB.

There might not have been many changes on the packers from last season to this season except for the qb, however you cant put the lackluster performance of the team entirely on Rodgers. There is no excuse for the defense, offensive line, and special teams to play as horribly as they did this season....They should of won a lot more games, if the defense and the special teams wernt finding new and exciting ways to give up the game....Hell they would of lost this past sunday, if it wernt for the clutch throw to donald driver in the last 5 min of the game.....The defense didnt do anything to stop the Lions from scoring the preceeding drive. That is how it was all season.....There is no reason to keep putting the pressure on the qb and the receivers constantly because of the inability of the defense and the special teams, who couldnt hold a lead to save their asses. The other problem is the coaching staff, they made a bunch of dumb ass play calls through out the season......You can go on saying that the Qb has to be a leader, however if the generals (the coaches) use the wrong plan of attack to turn the tide of victory, you will be getting beaten a lot. Sure Farve WAS a great QB, however, he is past his prime, cant get it done inthe final stretch when it gets colder, and dosnt thow as hard as he once did....On top of that, he was one of the luckiest qb's in history, and his luck ran out....This season he didnt come back for the love of the game, it was to put him ahead of marino, probably the greatist qb to play the game (and never won a superbowl).

Karps TA
12-30-2008, 10:58 AM
He already had all of Marino's records LAST year. He came back to try and stick it in Ted Thompsons face. And in some ways he did.

Rodgers played great for 3 quarters of almost every game. But in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line he folded, especially in the Red Zone. All those game where they had to settle for FG's instead of scoring TD's to be up by 2 scores instead of 1, ended up costing the Packers W's. Yes the Defense is awful. But the Offense is pretty damn good, too good to be settling for 3 points in key situations. Those are the times when I think Favre get's them 2 more wins this season. Which still means out of the playoffs.

Rodger's has likely been hammered by the coaching staff not to take chances in the Red Zone, and that 3 points is okay. Which for a team with a say a real defense would be okay. But time and time the D showed it couldn't hold a lead. What's that saying about the definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results? Take a chance and close out the damn game. Now that might be all Rodgers, or that might be the coaching staff not having confidence in him. Then when he finally does take a chance it's with under 2 minutes to go and he throws a Favre like INT.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 11:57 AM
He already had all of Marino's records LAST year. He came back to try and stick it in Ted Thompsons face. And in some ways he did.

Rodgers played great for 3 quarters of almost every game. But in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line he folded, especially in the Red Zone. All those game where they had to settle for FG's instead of scoring TD's to be up by 2 scores instead of 1, ended up costing the Packers W's. Yes the Defense is awful. But the Offense is pretty damn good, too good to be settling for 3 points in key situations. Those are the times when I think Favre get's them 2 more wins this season. Which still means out of the playoffs.

Rodger's has likely been hammered by the coaching staff not to take chances in the Red Zone, and that 3 points is okay. Which for a team with a say a real defense would be okay. But time and time the D showed it couldn't hold a lead. What's that saying about the definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results? Take a chance and close out the damn game. Now that might be all Rodgers, or that might be the coaching staff not having confidence in him. Then when he finally does take a chance it's with under 2 minutes to go and he throws a Favre like INT.

I think I'd have to agree with all of this.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 12:11 PM
so Brett came back to stick it to ted thompson? whats his excuse now for his bs? must just like to phuck with fans in general.

Karps TA
12-30-2008, 12:25 PM
What BS?? I must have missed it? He said it depended on the health of his shoulder. He had an MRI on it and I'm sure something will be reported soon. If he needs surgery at 40 years old he's not going to make it back. Maybe the Jets new coach won't even want him.

The only people making this a big deal is WI people, as usual. I don't understand the problem. He said DAY 1 at the Jets he was not sure if he'd play more then 1 year. That he would see how it went and evaluate in the offseason.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 12:40 PM
he didnt have the mri btw. he was on espn several weeks ago saying he wasnt sure if he had it in him to play another season.. WHY come back back with the hooplah he caused for one more year if he KNEW it wasnt in him? should have left on top, instead left a tainted memoryof how he left. sad when even commentators start saying "so is retirement talk coming again", "boy we heard that one from him several times".
his records aside, to true football fans not farve fans he is becoming a joke just like jordan was after awhile. maybe hes waiting to handpick a new coach..lol

PB86MCSS
12-30-2008, 01:23 PM
I was never aware it stopped.
Couldn't agree more.


if you're dumb enough to automatically assume that Brett Favre would have won more games then Aaron Rodgers with this current team, you're a fool. the QB was NOT the problem for the packers this year.
Agreed some more....Rodgers played well, infact GREATLY outplayed Brett. You think the Packers were going to be 13-3 or even 11-5 because Brett came back? Last year they got breaks and overachieved. Now the opposite happens, 6-10. Look at the Dolphins, Falcons, Ravens. Its the NFL, parity rules.



If make the assumption that Rodgers is the superior QB while only winning 6 games then I can make the assumption, based on wins that count, and not stats that don't, then you're the fool.
How do you measure whos better then? Numbers can be misleading at times but overall tell the truth. So Grossman was a great QB because the Bears made the Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer was even better because the Ravens won? Is Rodgers missing "clutchitude" and "grittiness" to help him win? Nope. Look at Favres numbers in the last month or so. Ick. To state numbers don't mean anything is absurd really. Its not like Rodgers chalked up his stats in some blowout victory over a JV team.

I loved watching Farve play and hope he comes back next year to end on a higher note, at least playing much better if they don't make the Playoffs. To go out after last season would of been a nice ending to cap his career.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 01:24 PM
There would be no hoopla if media (commentators included) would give it a rest. They really aren't tired of it. They keep reporting it. Favre is a lightening rod for them. How many times has Vinny Testaverde retired and unretired. He doesn't get all the attention. Nor did Junior Seau, or Keyshawn Johnson, or Daunte Culpepper, or Charles Haley or Reggie White or....

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 01:37 PM
Again, you're comparing Rodgers in a proven system, that he's familiar with, and players he's familiar with, against Favre in a system that was greek, and apparently not much better even given time with it if you base Pennington's success with it.

Just a side question. Which of you have actually played sports at ANY level. I can not believe that if you have, that you would not understand how individuals interact in a team environment. I've been on teams (baseball in this case) where we've booted our best player because he was a nob and our chemistry changed. We did a complete 180 and couldn't have been happier, and better, without him. (I'm not suggesting Rodgers is a nob. He seems very nice.)

I've also played football with what we thought was an acceptable QB who went down and was replaced by, what we thought, was a less talented guy. That backup though knew how to get guys attention in the huddle. In "coach speak" you build your team up when they're down and you tear them down when they're up.

Maybe Rodgers gets that with time. Maybe not. You can't deny that his teammates loved him when he was here and they responded.

fivonut
12-30-2008, 02:09 PM
3 seasons on the bench is not even remotely similar to 1 season as a starter. Rodgers needs ON FIELD experience and he got a lot this year, as he gets more the team will solidify around him. Favre is used up, time to get off his nuts....

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 02:55 PM
played football. btw, teams at alot of levels can be very cliquish. guys that played together sometimes act like kids when they dont get their way or have to try something new! how many passes did rodgers take while favre was at the helm? how much experience could you get riding the bench? didnt favre SUCK his first couple of years?

you can say the media drives this but cook his agent says one thing then brett says thats not true and i am tired, only want to play if i can win a superbowl, getting old, blah blah blah, then says something else. who is the liar? sounds like he keeps himself in the media at times.

true football fans are saying is give rodgers an honest chance. it cant be easy to walk in the shadow of a brett favre.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 02:55 PM
In NY Favre probably is done. Last year in GB you wouldn't have said that. Not if you think Rodgers numbers make him a super hero. His numbers are roughly the same, slightly lower, that Favre's last year. The only significant differences were points scored, by the offense, (our defense has scored 63 for us this year assuming we made all the PAT's after their TD's), and wins.

And you're right. 3 season on the bench are not like 1 season as a starter. It's also not the same as 0 seasons on the bench. Just ask Matt Ryan.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 02:58 PM
There would be no hoopla if media (commentators included) would give it a rest. They really aren't tired of it. They keep reporting it. Favre is a lightening rod for them. How many times has Vinny Testaverde retired and unretired. He doesn't get all the attention. Nor did Junior Seau, or Keyshawn Johnson, or Daunte Culpepper, or Charles Haley or Reggie White or....

damm near every one of these players were ASKED back to play! most recently junior seau by billichek himself, dante was picked up a back up for his experience.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 02:59 PM
true football fans are saying is give rodgers an honest chance. it cant be easy to walk in the shadow of a brett favre.

I will give him a chance. I have to if I'm a Packer fan. I'm just saying his chance could have started in 2009. The difference between winning and losing is very slight in the NFL. We were on the cusp last year. I don't think you can say that right now.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 03:00 PM
In NY Favre probably is done. Last year in GB you wouldn't have said that. Not if you think Rodgers numbers make him a super hero. His numbers are roughly the same, slightly lower, that Favre's last year. The only significant differences were points scored, by the offense, (our defense has scored 63 for us this year assuming we made all the PAT's after their TD's), and wins.

And you're right. 3 season on the bench are not like 1 season as a starter. It's also not the same as 0 seasons on the bench. Just ask Matt Ryan.

look at the gap since the last time matt ryan took a snap in college vs rodgers. farve fans forget they asked for his head prior to last year and wanted him done. he has a final good year and he is praised again.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 03:02 PM
damm near every one of these players were ASKED back to play! most recently junior seau by billichek himself, dante was picked up a back up for his experience.

And the Jets went one step further by even giving up a draft pick for the privilege. Not that it got them to the playoffs, but they were at least competitive. I don't see the difference.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 03:06 PM
look at the gap since the last time matt ryan took a snap in college vs rodgers.

So now Ryan with 0 NFL experience, has the advantage over Rodgers??? Wow. Such a burden Aaaron has to live with. It's amazing he ever completed even 1 pass!

Poor guy.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 03:14 PM
matt was a starter at boston college and took every snap until he left then his rookie year took all snaps. rodgers rode a bench for 3 years and took no snaps.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 03:16 PM
And the Jets went one step further by even giving up a draft pick for the privilege. Not that it got them to the playoffs, but they were at least competitive. I don't see the difference.

the difference was you commented on how many other players retired then unretired. the players you listed were asked back not relevant to the brett saga.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 03:27 PM
matt was a starter at boston college and took every snap until he left then his rookie year took all snaps. rodgers rode a bench for 3 years and took no snaps.

I'm thinking the prevailing opinion is that it's better for a QB to be given time to develop rather than be thrown to the wolves immediately.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 03:29 PM
the difference was you commented on how many other players retired then unretired. the players you listed were asked back not relevant to the brett saga.

So your issue is with timing rather than the fact that someone wanted him back or that they'd back up the talk with a draft pick? :rolleyes:

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 03:32 PM
sitting isnt necessarily considered developing. opinions will vary as do bung holes. If this kid doesnt make it happen next season then I would throw him to the wolves too but right now IMO too soon.

Just glad my team isnt going through this but regardless, I was ALWAYS a Steelers fan REGARDLESS of who was qb.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 03:56 PM
A Steelers fan? So what do you think of Terry Bradshaw's opinion?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/pgStory?contentId=9002932&MSNHPHMA#sport=NFL&photo=9004050

:)

PB86MCSS
12-30-2008, 04:55 PM
Just a side question. Which of you have actually played sports at ANY level.

Gee, how did I know this would be asked. Anytime someone questions intangibles it seems. I played baseball at a very competitive level, albiet only through High School. Football part of high school but gave up on it. Still play softball and other sports pretty regularly and competitively (played on the BCM softball team part of last year :D ). If you grew up in Wind Lake you probably went to my high school.

My point was intangibles are generally overrated. They are important but most times more is made of them than should be. Favre probably wouldn't of "willed" the Packers to victory. Maybe he would of, I doubt it. Pretty much every team has guys some or most don't like, win or lose. Winning solves, er covers most issues, if you struggle then crap comes to light. Theres plenty of teams who win with jerks all around and teams who win with a bunch of guys people like. Most teams I've been on the best player isn't everyones friend.

It is a good point about Favre playing in a new system, but like you point out Pennington had a career year with a new team. I'll blame Favres lack of success on joining the team right as pre-season began, his shoulder injury might of affected the end of the season and the fact he probably wasn't in top notch shape or ready for this season...not as much as a starting QB should be at his age anyway. I hope he returns, goes through the mini camp, training camp and has a good 09' then retires. He can still play but anyone expecting a repeat of 07' has wishful thinking. He had a few mediocre at best seasons leading up to 07' too.

It depends on the player, team, system, etc whether its better to sit or play right away as a QB, IMO. Plenty of players who've had success doing both. Lately there are plenty of rookies getting the nod and performing quite well. Smart players who play within themselves, plus teams feel can't afford to sit on a bonus baby too long to have a pricey backup.

What would people be saying had the defense and special teams done anything, I mean anything at the end of the games the last 4-5 games before the Lions? I don't recall a stretch when a team has had the lead or had the chance to take the lead (blocked field goal/Bears game) and blew it that often in that short of a span of games. Nobody would be questioning Rodgers, me thinks. And none of that was his fault or the offense.

If you think Favre would of won a couple more games then you should probably say he would of lost a couple too like he typically does with the fun 3-4 INT games.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 05:22 PM
A Steelers fan? So what do you think of Terry Bradshaw's opinion?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/pgStory?contentId=9002932&MSNHPHMA#sport=NFL&photo=9004050

:)

:rolleyes: I like Terry but his OPINION is HIS not mine.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:42 PM
no playoffs and the guy he replaced kicked his a$s on the field and turned around a wasted team. every dolphin credits chad with turning their team around yet NOBODY says crap about Brett except maybe...damm another int?

this goes against all youve said about A-rod and Favre,you said A-rod is awesome and that the team sucked on defense and offensive line,thats why they arent in the playoff,yet you thing chad pennington is the reason the dolphins are in the playoffs? it has nothing to do with the other good players they have or the awesome coach, You make no sense at all.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 07:54 PM
huh. I never liked that the jets tossed chad away to get brett and it ironic that with the playoffs on the line brett choked it up against the guy he replaced. my point about rodgers is basically the brett swingers comparing this 17 yr veteran to pretty much a rookie. everyone expected the world out of him, just not realistic. He may not be awesome but their record is not is fault and I say the failing defense in the 4th and in alot of cases the o line to give any sort of protection. sh!t batman ben isnt playing great this year and his line allowed 46 sacks but at least the dfense kept them in games and held the4th qtr like nobody else.

of course the entire team has everything to do with it but nobody was singing praises for brett on his new team. it was obvious in games that chad was their team leader and showed it having the same amount of time as brett to adjust.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 07:59 PM
the jets did better than last year with pennington,brett accomplished something,if he stays next year brett will do better. pennigton has the best coach in the league and a very good surrounding cast as well dolphins couldnt really go anywear but up this yeare either
everyone here says oh brett isnt the packers they will do fine without him and A-rod is awesome,we that team has not changed much over the last year other than the QB,last year 13-3 and playoffs this year 6-10 Hmm

PB86MCSS
12-30-2008, 08:05 PM
The Jets also added a few peices last off-season before Brett, that helped too.

The Packers record in the last 3 years of Favre: 4-12, 8-8, 13-3. So the 3 seasons before Rodgers Brett was the reason they sucked, the reason they were mediocre, the reason they did great? QB's and head coaches get too much blame and too much credit, with Favre I'll go out on a limb and say they would be between 5-11 and 7-9.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 08:08 PM
ok neither qb got into the playoffs so that leaves how they played the season. rodgers had more tds, less ints, more passing yrds and damm near the same comp as favre and when you compare qb rating his is ranked #6 as brett cant even be seen on the page. winning is everything right? neither got to the post season so who sucked more? yeah this years record is worse than last year but last year had a veteran running HIS offense, new guy record is worse but first time playing. really cant compare.

more credit should be given to rodgers and chad having worked in the same sitaution as brett as they had more to overcome. yet thats not the case.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 08:24 PM
how the hell cna you say that? Bret went to a team he never played with 1 week before the season started,he had to relearn a whole new never practiced with them. Rodgers knows the playbook and players and practiced with them,he was farther ahead than favre but favre should not get respect?

badass88gt
12-30-2008, 09:27 PM
Favre deserves no respect, period.

Yooformula
12-30-2008, 09:30 PM
chad had same situation, issue is too much expectation for ridgers. MORE should have been on favre. Your telling me in his reign, he never studied other offenses to get tips and figure out what works? most times he called his own plays. he couldnt have been that good without knowing how other systems work. every offensive coord stole plays from other systems just like dfenses do.

badass88gt
12-30-2008, 10:08 PM
I wonder how much "conservative-ness" was going on from the bench with Rodger's play? Anyone think the bench was playing it safe at times, calling in plays that are safe and settling for 3 instead of letting Rodgers go big and taking chances?

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 10:21 PM
no the packers sucked it up this year thats why they didnt let him do shit. Favre should get more respect for doing what he does at the age he is.

PB86MCSS
12-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Maybe the Cowboys should try to acquire him...







:banana1:

theavenger333
12-30-2008, 10:53 PM
Again, you're comparing Rodgers in a proven system, that he's familiar with, and players he's familiar with, against Favre in a system that was greek, and apparently not much better even given time with it if you base Pennington's success with it.

Just a side question. Which of you have actually played sports at ANY level. I can not believe that if you have, that you would not understand how individuals interact in a team environment. I've been on teams (baseball in this case) where we've booted our best player because he was a nob and our chemistry changed. We did a complete 180 and couldn't have been happier, and better, without him. (I'm not suggesting Rodgers is a nob. He seems very nice.)

I've also played football with what we thought was an acceptable QB who went down and was replaced by, what we thought, was a less talented guy. That backup though knew how to get guys attention in the huddle. In "coach speak" you build your team up when they're down and you tear them down when they're up.

Maybe Rodgers gets that with time. Maybe not. You can't deny that his teammates loved him when he was here and they responded.

i do'nt like bringing it up, but your question about who has actually PLAYED sports is very relevent. i played 4 sports in high school, one of them football, and i played baseball at the college level. still play in Land o Lakes and a few other leagues. i do see your point, but you can't judge a QB by ONE thing like wins or stats. its ALL of it. as for a new system, they changed the whole thing FOR favre. the offense was very un-complex, and the man knows football. as for overall performance, Rodgers outperformed Favre.

Reverend Cooper
12-30-2008, 10:54 PM
^ maybe the Packers should ask him back,remember Packers 6-10 with the best QB in the league A-Rod,out performed should include wins it does on the show Pinks

PB86MCSS
12-30-2008, 11:10 PM
Easy tiger, I was joking.

theavenger333, where did you go to High School and around what years? Just curious if I played against you (baseball), not that I would remember anyone in particular. Also what Land O Lakes team? A few guys I played with did Land O Lakes but I doubt they do anymore...I miss playing baseball more often, softball just isn't the same.

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 11:46 PM
i do'nt like bringing it up, but your question about who has actually PLAYED sports is very relevent. i played 4 sports in high school, one of them football, and i played baseball at the college level. still play in Land o Lakes and a few other leagues. i do see your point, but you can't judge a QB by ONE thing like wins or stats. its ALL of it. as for a new system, they changed the whole thing FOR favre. the offense was very un-complex, and the man knows football. as for overall performance, Rodgers outperformed Favre.

I'm a 4 sport guy too. And no I did not grow up in Wind Lake. (Sorry PM86) I'm a military guy who happened to be lucky and live near SF when Joe Montana was the QB. He WAS my all-time favorite until I came home to WI and watched Brett. Joe is still the smoothest ever. He's the only non-Packer in my rec room. But even in the age he was and the team he was able to keep around him, he didn't have as many wins as Brett.

And Avenger, I'll agree you can't use wins as the sole measuring stick for a QB's greatness. (Trent Dilfer has as many rings.) A team around him is just as important. Let me ask you this. How many other Hall of Famers do you see, besides Reggie White, on the Packers since 1992? I won't ask how many receivers are worthy of the Packers Hall of Fame because even Billy Schroeder caught over 1000 yards from Brett.

As far as the system. Brett did much better early when they didn't expect him to know the system and "dummied" it down for him. Once he was expected to play within it, the wheels feel off. I'll agree that Brett is not a conventional QB. I won't agree that it's not a good thing.

Overall 2008 stats. No question. Rodgers wins. Let's say GB keeps Brett and Aaron goes to NY. What are his stats? Just guessing...

TraceDaddy
12-30-2008, 11:50 PM
I wonder how much "conservative-ness" was going on from the bench with Rodger's play? Anyone think the bench was playing it safe at times, calling in plays that are safe and settling for 3 instead of letting Rodgers go big and taking chances?

Good point. If the coaches aren't comfortable with him in that situation, what do you think his teammates are thinking?

TraceDaddy
12-31-2008, 12:02 AM
chad had same situation, issue is too much expectation for ridgers. MORE should have been on favre. Your telling me in his reign, he never studied other offenses to get tips and figure out what works? most times he called his own plays. he couldnt have been that good without knowing how other systems work. every offensive coord stole plays from other systems just like dfenses do.

Again...Yoo. Have you played the game? How confident can you be calling an audible if you're not POSITIVE that a Gun Scoop Option against a 4-4 defense doesn't compromise your FB's route. AND he KNOWS that.

Yes I know it's not something run in an NFL offense. Go with me.

Running what's by the book is one thing. Making a play when the called play breaks down is another.

But it can be the difference between winning and losing when your team is losing by less than 7 points.

Reverend Cooper
12-31-2008, 05:59 AM
I'm a 4 sport guy too. And no I did not grow up in Wind Lake. (Sorry PM86) I'm a military guy who happened to be lucky and live near SF when Joe Montana was the QB. He WAS my all-time favorite until I came home to WI and watched Brett. Joe is still the smoothest ever. He's the only non-Packer in my rec room. But even in the age he was and the team he was able to keep around him, he didn't have as many wins as Brett.

And Avenger, I'll agree you can't use wins as the sole measuring stick for a QB's greatness. (Trent Dilfer has as many rings.) A team around him is just as important. Let me ask you this. How many other Hall of Famers do you see, besides Reggie White, on the Packers since 1992? I won't ask how many receivers are worthy of the Packers Hall of Fame because even Billy Schroeder caught over 1000 yards from Brett.

As far as the system. Brett did much better early when they didn't expect him to know the system and "dummied" it down for him. Once he was expected to play within it, the wheels feel off. I'll agree that Brett is not a conventional QB. I won't agree that it's not a good thing.

Overall 2008 stats. No question. Rodgers wins. Let's say GB keeps Brett and Aaron goes to NY. What are his stats? Just guessing...

The last line is my exact thoughts and what i have been telling Yoo.

badass88gt
12-31-2008, 07:09 AM
How many games this year did the Packers play where they had the lead midway through the 4th quarter and lost that lead? I'm looking for a number.

Lets look at this aspect.

The Packers lost Cullen Jenkins to a chest injury early in the season and later Nick Barnett to a knee injury. Atari Bigby was hurt all season and never seemed quite right, even when he was on the field. KGB couldn't regain his speed following knee surgery in the offseason and was waived. Justin Harrell (whom the Packers were counting on after their decision to trade Corey Williams to Cleveland in the offseason) was slowed by injuries for the second straight season.

Would the Packers be back in the playoffs if the defense was healthy?

The secondary was the defense's best unit, but couldn't always make up for a pass rush that was almost nonexistent outside of Aaron Kampman. The run defense was also a consistent disappointment.

Seems to me the major culprit was an injury-riddled defense that gave up big plays in bunches and struggled to hold on to fourth-quarter leads week after week.

Another fact I find interesting: This year the Packers piled up 419 points, seventh best in team history. In counting 419 points, Green Bay was not far from the 435 points it got last year. McCarthy’s team scored 48 touchdowns in both instances.

The difference lies in the number of points given up. Last year, the Packers allowed 291. This year, the total ballooned to 380, tied for fifth most in team history.

Lets continue to look at Rodgers for someone to blame.

TraceDaddy
12-31-2008, 08:32 AM
A couple things though.

I agree that our defense was not up to par. Ranked 20th in the league.

Of those 419 points scored this year, the defense was responsible for 63. I don't give the offense credit for scoring those.

In 2004 our defense also gave up 380 points and was ranked 25th in the league. Our record? 10-6. In 1992, Favre's first year, the defense was ranked 23rd, though gave up "only" 296 points, and our record was 9-7.

Somehow. Someway. "We" were able to overcome and win.

Oh. In 1991, pre-Favre, the defense was ranked a respectable 10th. Our record 4-12.

We, as Packers fans, have been spoiled for so long we forgot what it's like to lose.

Let me re-word my point and maybe it will be clearer. I'm not blaming Rodgers for losing, I'm blaming him for not winning.

Yooformula
12-31-2008, 09:17 AM
The last line is my exact thoughts and what i have been telling Yoo.

thats fine but remember Brett chose to leave. the only thing I say is not to judge this pretty much rookie qb YET.

and trace, yes I played football for many years in hs 17 years ago as a cornerback, strong safety and inside lb.

PB86MCSS
12-31-2008, 10:43 AM
Overall 2008 stats. No question. Rodgers wins. Let's say GB keeps Brett and Aaron goes to NY. What are his stats? Just guessing...

True but like its said above, you have to also consider the circumstances whether or not to criticize, or not criticize Favre...he retired and whined when the team didn't beg for him back then un-retires and forced the issue. He and the team handled it poorly but how he handled it and his decision making affects how he is looked at. And Favre was never big into studying film anyways, I still remember the retirement press conference when he was complaining about studying film and game plans late at night like it was the hardest thing he had to do. Not exactly a student of the game....his style made him great but was also his weak point. That might be one reason he struggled in a new system too.

Not to get off topic but I think a QB's success or lack of is as much as a combination of the team, players around them, coaching and injuries more than any other position in sports as there are only 30 spots and not many opportunities. If Bledsoe never gets hurt does Brady go on to have the career he did? If Majkowski didn't get hurt or Favre go to a team with Holmgren does Favre ever have that career? Steve Young wasn't anything until he had a chance with a great 49ers team and system to support him. Kurt Warner always has looked good when he has a couple stud WR's and a pass happy offense. The QB still has to make plays and perform but it makes me wonder how many other guys could be good with an opportunity and how a few, IMO, had quite a bit of luck on their side. In other sports if you can play, you can play and will get your chance, pitching in baseball, basketball pretty much any position but QB at least in the NFL your chances are precious and it depends whats around you to look good.