Roller lifter WTF???

[BAD LS1]

Upon totally dissaembling 12 of the 16 lifters from the infamous KB vette i run accross this special lifter... This is very much a crack in the bearing surface of the lifter! Needed to clean out all the shit oil/ metal particles from the disingrated rings.

When looking at it in a magnifying glass you can see it was like ripped apart:stare

HOW THE FUCK does one crack a hydraulic roller on the bearing surface?? Im sure the misadjusted valves and 8K rpms hada little something to do with it!:durr 200 miles on these.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_0919.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_0920.jpg

[juicedimpss]

does the crack follow through to the axle?
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/juicedimpss/IMG_09202.jpg

i would suspect loose lifter bores,allowing the lifter to side load.that is what id be checking out first.

[BAD LS1]

does the crack follow through to the axle?
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/juicedimpss/IMG_09202.jpg

i would suspect loose lifter bores,allowing the lifter to side load.that is what id be checking out first.

Sharp eye i didnt even see that, but a closer look at the lifter and its got a small hairliner along the bottom lip where you circled in pink too!! WTF?!??

It does not go into the axle though, just along the rim.

Did i mention the rev limter was set to 8k with hyraulic lifters?:wooo

[94greenbandit]

Just put a little solder in there and it should be fine

[BAD LS1]

being its someone elses abortion, im not suprised to see that done somewhere else. yet...

[Breecher_7]

:rolf

I just called Josh... :thumbsup

[Reverend Cooper]

holy ******* shit,2 minutes to meltdown,everyone say what a broken lifter does to a cam ask sam.that motor might as well just be replaced,I would be scared to use anything from it after see all this

[Breecher_7]

holy ******* shit,2 minutes to meltdown,everyone say what a broken lifter does to a cam ask sam.that motor might as well just be replaced,I would be scared to use anything from it after see all this

crank and rods are being reused. Pistons are being replaced. Obviously that lifter will need to be replaced.

Still waiting on word from the machine shop of weather the block is fucked.

[Reverend Cooper]

like i said,throw it out,start over fresh.

[Breecher_7]

like i said,throw it out,start over fresh.


Easy to say when its not your dollar. There is no reason to toss stuff that is fine. Machine shop is going to go over everything before it gets re-assembled. Like i said above though, most of the big dollar stuff seems to be ok so far. Crank, rods, cam, hardware, still waiting on test results for the block and heads. Valvetrain is all ok other then that lifter, especially now that tom took the time to dissasemble all of them.

If the block ends up being crap its getting a iron 6.0 block...

[88Nightmare]

I do not know much about valvetrains, but if you intend to be able to spin to 8000rpms, what kind of valvetrain would be best? solid lifters?

[juicedimpss]

I do not know much about valvetrains, but if you intend to be able to spin to 8000rpms, what kind of valvetrain would be best? solid lifters?

yep,hydros will pump up at that rpm,and they are too heavy to be stabil also.

[Breecher_7]

And to update this, The block is back from the machine shop and is also junk, bores are out of spec....

So Far...

Block JUNK
Lifters JUNK
Pistons UNACCEPTABLE
Oil Pump JUNK
Rod Bolts WRONG
Cam Bearings JUNK
Main Bearings JUNK
Crank WAS SAVED, YOU SHOULD SEE THE PIN JOB NUMB NUTS DID ON THIS!!!
Injectors WRONG
MAF CUSTOM ONE ORDERED, NOT BEING USED
Clutch JUNK WITH 300 MILES ON IT!


What will tomarrow bring? Who knows....

Anyone got a 6.0L Iron block laying around?

[Reverend Cooper]

Like I said better off starting with new stuff,now there is no choice,no offense but really its probably better off this way.

[Breecher_7]

Like I said better off starting with new stuff,now there is no choice,no offense but really its probably better off this way.

Agreed.

It will hopefully be back together come summer, Josh's wife has about had it though, I think she locked down the bank account. :stare

[UnderPSI]

I got my iron block from speed inc. Was a decent price for a new one.

[Waver]

And to update this, The block is back from the machine shop and is also junk, bores are out of spec....

So Far...

Block JUNK
Lifters JUNK
Pistons UNACCEPTABLE
Oil Pump JUNK
Rod Bolts WRONG
Cam Bearings JUNK
Main Bearings JUNK
Crank WAS SAVED, YOU SHOULD SEE THE PIN JOB NUMB NUTS DID ON THIS!!!
Injectors WRONG
MAF CUSTOM ONE ORDERED, NOT BEING USED
Clutch JUNK WITH 300 MILES ON IT!


What will tomarrow bring? Who knows....

Anyone got a 6.0L Iron block laying around?

Damn he really done f'ed up that car didnt he....

[Breecher_7]

Damn he really done f'ed up that car didnt he....

Come see it...... :rolf Its literally a paperweight right now. Ive got the entire thing torn apart. Engine out, trans out, rear end out, rear cradle out, interior ripped out...

Its a mess, but its getting fixed.

I dont know everything, but im not affraid to ask for help when I need it... Hell it took me 3 days and alot of talking with people to figure out the fuel system on the damn thing, but that is what wasnt done in the first place.

[wrath]

What kind of block is the bad one? I might be interested in it. haha.

[BAD LS1]

its an LS6 block, it was bored over to 3.905" which is the limit and now its wore about .002" more on the thrust sides. nothing more can be done with the block unless resleeved. Plus the lifter bores are probably fubared due to the lifters starting to fatigue as seen in the start of this thread.

The owner of the car is looking for a lq9 or lq4 6.0l iron block of 03' and older vintage. the blocks were the same between the two. 04'+ all use equal length head bolts which is fine, but it more of a cost savings to not have to buy new head studs. the 03' and older use the long head bolts that go into the main cap webbing.

[Waver]

Come see it...... :rolf Its literally a paperweight right now. Ive got the entire thing torn apart. Engine out, trans out, rear end out, rear cradle out, interior ripped out...

Its a mess, but its getting fixed.

I dont know everything, but im not affraid to ask for help when I need it... Hell it took me 3 days and alot of talking with people to figure out the fuel system on the damn thing, but that is what wasnt done in the first place.

I might have to take you up on that offer.

[Breecher_7]

its an LS6 block, it was bored over to 3.905" which is the limit and now its wore about .002" more on the thrust sides. nothing more can be done with the block unless resleeved. Plus the lifter bores are probably fubared due to the lifters starting to fatigue as seen in the start of this thread.

The owner of the car is looking for a lq9 or lq4 6.0l iron block of 03' and older vintage. the blocks were the same between the two. 04'+ all use equal length head bolts which is fine, but it more of a cost savings to not have to buy new head studs. the 03' and older use the long head bolts that go into the main cap webbing.

Got your text Tom. Thanks! Answer your damn phone once and a while!!!! :goof

Tom we have been able to find the LQ9 blocks but I guess i need a specific part number for the 2003 and older ones, you dont happen to have that do you? The number josh has 12572808 comes back as a LQ9 but doesnt say what year????

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance/809/12572808/10002/-1

[torque.hit]

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141948


For your consideration. This guy is very trusted when it comes to performance transmissions. He's got brand new 6.0 GM blocks for $500 + shipping.

[Mr. Brett]

Where are all the nutswingers who told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I called this clown shoe out for his hack job shenanigans?

[Mr. Brett]

That's what I thought.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Love that term clown shoe, I remember people telling you to staop calling him that back then. He went away as fast as he came to BCM, gone without a trace even his posts gone.

Like a bad dream I guess ? Sux for those he duped.

[Breecher_7]

That's what I thought.

It took me a little to long to figure him out, ive already admitted this. He was very carefull around me and put on a good act for a long time, but slowly started to slip up. We dont need to revisit this. Also, the main reason you were jumped so hard regarding your comments is because West Bend dyno was and still is a supporting sponsor of BCM. THere not exactly going to let you trash talk a sponsor. :thumbsup

OH and ive got the parts list in my hand of everything we need to put the car back together. It exceeds $4,000.00...

Apparently Forest has "agreed" to pay for bearings, oil pump, and head gaskets.. Its not much considering the mess this car is but atleast he is doing somthing for Josh without kicking and screaming to much. In reality he should be paying for everything but the fact is that it did happen under WBD's roof and he is no longer an owner making brad responsible. Brad and josh are friends so he refuses to try and hold him accountable for somthing Forest did.

The good thing is that people didnt trust him before WBD opened, now they trust him even less. With the Brew city car community being what it is and how quickly word of mouth travels its going to make it difficult for him to mess up anyone elses car.

What goes around comes around, some day he will pay for this in one way or another. Karma is a bitch.

And although its not much, atleast he is buying some of the parts... He could have just say fuck you completely.

Situation is odd.

[Mr. Brett]

I knew he was a lying piece of shit within seconds of meeting him. Maybe I'm just better at reading people. Whatever, at least he's finally finshed.

[Breecher_7]

Forest came through tonight with main and rod bearings as well as a oil pump. He says he is ordering the head gaskets monday. So far so good.

[Breecher_7]

Well, Forest ended up paying for bearings, an oil pump, and a $300.00 cashiers check that said "release of all liablity" on it. Like that means anything.... So approximatly $550.00 worth of parts out of the nearly $4,000.00 worth of parts that Josh has ordered to put the car back together. Apparently Josh just wants it back together and is going to suck up the difference rather then dragging him into court. All parts are currently on order to put it back together so with god willing josh will be able to drive this thing this summer for the first time in two years. Engine parts should be going to NVR next week for balancing and to set up the bearing clearances, then its just a matter of reassembly and tuning.

Here are some pics of the unfucked corvette in its current state. And to be clear, Nothing on this car was assembled correctly. The engine had bearings put in backwards, the clutch was not set up correctly (no shims), and the fuel system was completely wrong. I will eventually make a post showing everything in detail as the teardown of the car was photographed quite extensively.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0091.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0089.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0093.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0096.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0104.jpg

This is a fuel distrobution block that I had to make as the former "builder" just took the factory one, hogged it out, and stuck the factory regulator head back in it... WTF? I need to get a picture of that up, i forgot to take one.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/IMG_0103.jpg

[Yellow2k1vette]

the clutch was not set up correctly (no shims), Shimming the slave is usually an F-body thing, since their tranny-mounted slaves do seem to sit a little further back compared to in the Vette torque tubes.

Not saying it's dimensionally impossible, it's an easy measurement to check for...but it's very rare to hear of a C5 needing slave shimming.

What clutch was in it?

:haveabeer

[Breecher_7]

Shimming the slave is usually an F-body thing, since their tranny-mounted slaves do seem to sit a little further back compared to in the Vette torque tubes.

Not saying it's dimensionally impossible, it's an easy measurement to check for...but it's very rare to hear of a C5 needing slave shimming.

What clutch was in it?

:haveabeer

It was a spec 3+. I will measure when the new one arrives. But I called spec and they said it should have been shimmed. There is a Tick adjustable master on order for it now as well. The clutch would never fully disengage. Causing it to shift for shit and hardly ever go into reverse. Wont be happening again.

[Breecher_7]

Latest discovery.....

The 2002 has the IAT located in the MAF. Per Kenne Bell it is relocated to the lower intake manifold so the factory harness needs to be spliced into to connect the IAT in its new location.

Since nothing else has been correctly installed to this point, i figured why not open up the loom and see what wires it was tapped into. Sure enough, the IAT was spliced into the WRONG wires. So if you havent grasped this yet, it basically means that the IAT was never functional since the blower was installed.... It was tapped into ONE wire for the IAT and one wire for the MAF...

So I got on the phone with Kenne Bell, there sending me a installation manual so that I can backtrack anything else that was done and I havent caught yet and KB wants photos of all the messed up stuff that we have encountered so far. Such as the birdsnest of wires that hooked up the boost a pump and the 8 guage wire that was running off it, the sockets that were being used as pulley spacers, and the way the factory harness was hacked into for the IAT wiring.

They are willing to send all the parts that were "lost" or are missing free of charge to get it up and running.

So, thats the update... If anyone cares.

Oh and the the running tally for parts is approaching $5000 and will most likely exceed $6000 by the time everything is final.

OH, and there is this.....

This jerry rigged, half assed fuel pump setup.... Apparently this was the best way to do this????? The fuel tank also had to be replaced as the sealing surface was hogged out to make one of the bulkhead fittings clear.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/antoninodamato/Josh%20Vette%20Rebuild/DSCN2086.jpg

Its now been replaced with a very nice billet aluminum fuel hat that has built in pump hangers and -6 AN fittings. It also integrates the factory passenger side siphon pump for proper opperation. This was sourced from www.racingsolutions.com

[Yellow2k1vette]

Purple and tan wires on the MAF wiring harness are for IAT.

If the purple was substituted for the black/wht stripe wire (ground), IAT probably still would have worked correctly. Since you didn't say what was to connected to what, I'm just guessing.

But the stock wire colors are as follows:

Purple: IAT - (low reference)
Tan: IAT +
Black/white stripe: ground
Pink: Ign voltage
Yellow: MAF signal

[Breecher_7]

Purple and tan wires on the MAF wiring harness are for IAT.

If the purple was substituted for the black/wht stripe wire (ground), IAT probably still would have worked correctly. Since you didn't say what was to connected to what, I'm just guessing.

But the stock wire colors are as follows:

Purple: IAT - (low reference)
Tan: IAT +
Black/white stripe: ground
Pink: Ign voltage
Yellow: MAF signal

Just as I thought, Thank You.

[JMG853]

Whose car is that?


I am sure it will be fine when you finish it, but it sounds like this car was beaten... How many miles on it?

[Breecher_7]

Car was not beaten at all. It only has 14K on it. Hasnt run in two years because of a certain someone that got in way over his head and truly didnt know what he was doing.

[Waver]

two years? I take it that includes the intitial build, then the shot time it drove, and now the extensive repair work

[Breecher_7]

Yes, It drove for a total of 300 miles in the past 2 years. That included one trip to the track where it cracked off a 11.50 with the car running like total shit and the main bearings in backwards.... :rolf

Im actually in the process of unscrewing the last of the wiring right now.

The engine should be back from NVR by next week.

[BAD LS1]

Engine parts are ready to go... The engine had to go BACK to the machine shop again to have the 3/16" keyway cut in the snout for the pulley. They didnt know it had to be done. Still trying to figure out what was done to the crank by the original guy who said he could put the keyway in it, you can guess who that guy was associated with.

The block and crank should be back today so assembly can start. I laid out all the parts for it and is ready to go.

The crank actually turned out to be ok to re-use as well as the rods, but thats ALL that was really left salvageable from the prior high-dollar 300 mile "big power" mill.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_1334.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_1335.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_1336.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_1337.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/LS1builder/IMG_1338.jpg

[Waver]

well at least you are working on it tom, and you know what you are doing....very thorough in labeling the parts

[Breecher_7]

Tom!! Quit spoiling the end result with photos..... :rolf

[94greenbandit]

That is pretty

[0TransAm0]

such a tease with the pics.. makes me wish i had all my shit...i hate waiting.

[Breecher_7]

Another day we wait, NVR couldnt put a keyway in the crank.... You would think they would have the right endmills on hand to do that...

Tomarrow it is!

[lilws6]

LOL this is awsome watching this go together the right way. I wish i could afford to build my motor this way. those parts look so sexy

[Breecher_7]

LOL this is awsome watching this go together the right way. I wish i could afford to build my motor this way. those parts look so sexy

To be honest the grand total for all the parts isnt that bad either.... Granted they shouldnt have had to be purchased AGAIN in the first place but it has given me a chance to fix all the random hacked up shit I found on this car. Plus it gave josh the option to upgrade certain things and do things the 100% correct way. Giving him a solid piece of mind. Seriously, with the way some of the shit on this car was wired or hooked up, im suprised it ever started.

There will be a very detailed thread posted with photos from every part of the tear down and rebuild of the whole car once its done for those that care.

And just because he has been a giant help, i want to once again thank Tom for putting this engine together. I am definitly not comfortable with these LS series engines yet.

All the loose ends are buttoned up on the car though, hopefully I will have the engine back in the car by sunday night and the reassembly can start.

[94greenbandit]

I wish I knew more about engines to be able to do my own

[Breecher_7]

I wish I knew more about engines to be able to do my own

Seriously, read some books.... You can get the fundamentals of it from reading good books/rebuild manuals. The rest of it is hands on. Find yourself a junk engine and have at it! Best way to learn!

[94greenbandit]

Thanks. Any particular books you would recommend. I do have an LT1 block sitting in my garage that I have yet to do anything with

[Breecher_7]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HPB%2DHP1393&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Never read that one, but I own the one for gen 1 small blocks and it was a damn good book. Purchased it when I was 15. Company that writes these has been around for some time.

[94greenbandit]

Thanks

[Breecher_7]

New engine is together and sitting in the car.....

Almost there!

[Breecher_7]

It is alive, it is very VERY alive......

That is all!

[Poncho]

sweet. Tom builds good engines.

[Breecher_7]

Tom and NVR did an amazing job on the longblock. I have documented this entire build from tear down to rebuild so Ill throw it up for those interested in the near future. No part of this car was left untouched, everything was removed an gone through from the driveline, interior, electrical, everything.

Insurance was put on it last night and it was and is back on the road!

I dont know if he will admit it but I think Tom has a thing for the twin screw blowers now!!!

[0TransAm0]

pics...we need more pics..:)

[BAD LS1]

Yeah it was nice to work on something that just needed me for tuning purposes when it came to first getting it going. Tony and Josh did a great job on getting the car put back together right so that there was not one issue that stood in the way of me getting it back up on its feet. After some farting around and adversity with the eletronic throttle control's infamous P1514 code (reduced engine power) which unfortunantly i dont get to deal with much so it took some research and trial and error to get working correctly in pure speed density. I have a pretty rough tune up in it now to get the car to the point where it runs and drives good enough to get the 500 break-in miles for the clutch on it and i will finish polishing the driveabilty then it goes to the dyno for the easy part, WOT tuning.

I did get to drive it on its maiden voyage so i had a better handle of how it was acting and by the 3rd attempt it really started to take shape. All i can say is the thing is pretty mental and i already had it off the rev limiter at 6600 already in 2nd gear kinda on accident because it just nukes the tires so easy now. All on the biggest pulley (lowest boost) and now with 20 more CI of displacment.

Yeah i do think some pics are needed! haha

[xxtremeteam]

congrats looking forward to pics/vids

[Poncho]

After some farting around and adversity with the eletronic throttle control's infamous P1514 code (reduced engine power)


lol, I remember that or quite similar in my GTO. "Hit the gas already." "Dude, I am" "Oh.... Lets take it back to the house" "I'm trying, LOL"

[BAD LS1]

lol, I remember that or quite similar in my GTO. "Hit the gas already." "Dude, I am" "Oh.... Lets take it back to the house" "I'm trying, LOL"

Yeah FI cars with ETC are even more of an enigma. It hit REP only once today while it was driving Tony said, that part is easy fix, when it does it 30 sec into idling, that is a bitch to get sorted out. Wont be the last time it will do it yet either, im sure WOT will bring on more REP issues to rub out. After all its still a work in progress.

[94greenbandit]

Pics and videos with sound would be nice

[lilws6]

You can not imagine the way this car sounds. Alls i'm saying is DAMN!!!! And where can i get me one of those SEXY SEXY

[Breecher_7]

Thanks for the kind words Tom. Getting things right the first time is nice, but it definitly helps when the owner of the car pretty gives you his credit card and says "make it run the right way". Car was a learning curve, vettes are a pain in the ass. Im very happy with the result so far though!

Nuked Tires... :rolf

I dont know what your talking about, its a slow turd...... :alcoholic

[Yellow2k1vette]

Yeah FI cars with ETC are even more of an enigma..Are you scaling the VE/IFR down?

You'll almost certainly have to with that setup, maxing the ETC predicted airflow table won't do it.

:haveabeer

[BAD LS1]

Are you scaling the VE/IFR down?

You'll almost certainly have to with that setup, maxing the ETC predicted airflow table won't do it.

:haveabeer

Yeah thats where i was going with that last night to try and countereract the REP when the 1514 table maxed to 4.10 didnt work, the 79# high imp jobs in there came in at nearly 90# when scaled to the fuel psi etc in the IFR table. I have the IFR and VE scaled back about 30% right now. That alone didnt fix it. It was the PO106 MAP high region table that was real fix for it at idle. It was cresting the MAP #s at idle and would trigger the REP. It has a totally stock 1514 table in it right now.