Chinese Automakers May Buy GM and Chrysler

[TransAm12sec]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/breaking-news-chinese-may-buy-gm-and-chrysler/#more-156041

By Bertel Schmitt
November 18, 2008 - 22,776 views

Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. [A National Enquirer the paper is not. It is one of China's leading business newspapers, with a daily readership over three million.] The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad. And why would they do that?


A take-over of a large overseas auto maker would fit perfectly into China’s plans. As reported before, China has realized that its export chances are slim without unfettered access to foreign technology. The brand cachet of Chinese cars abroad is, shall we say, challenged. The Chinese could easily export Made-in-China VWs, Toyotas, Buicks. If their joint venture partner would let them. The solution: Buy the joint venture partner. Especially, when he’s in deep trouble.

At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves. For nobody in the world would buying GM and (while they are at it) Chrysler make more sense than for the Chinese. Overlap? What overlap? They would gain instant access to the world’s markets with accepted brands, and proven technology.

21st Century Business Herald, obviously with input from higher-up, writes that Chinese industry must change and upgrade. China wants their factories to change from low-value-added manufacturing to technically innovative and financially-sound high-value-add industries. Says the paper: “It would be much easier now for strong Chinese automakers to go global by acquiring some assets of their U.S. counterparts in times of crisis.”

Deloitte & Touche sees a trend: “Chinese automakers can start with buying out the OEM projects and Chinese ventures of some global carmakers such as GM and Chrysler.”

The Chinese appear to have bigger plans than an accounting firm can imagine. 21st Century Business Herald acts and writes as if its already a done deal, and the beginning of more to come. “In the coming two years China is likely to see a few of its large Chinese automakers and other manufacturing enterprises set a precedent for achieving globalization by acquiring global companies, just like SAIC or Dongfeng’s possible acquisition of troubled GM or Chrysler.”

Just in case you missed it, the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) is China’s largest auto manufacturer. In 1984, the company entered a joint venture with Volkswagen. A decade later, SAIC entered a joint venture with General Motors. In 2007, SAIC bought the Nanjing Automobile Corporation, which had acquired British MG Rover in 2005.

Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a public company, although 70 percent of their shares are reported to be in government hands. They also are one of China’s Big Three. The company has numerous joint venture partners, such as Nissan, Peugeot-Citroen, Honda, and Kia. Dongfeng (which means “East Wind”) was founded at the behest of Mao Zedong himself in 1968.




It's hard to imagine, but it has some interesting information.

[ND4SPD]

Not a chance in hell the Government allows that. Then again... Obama probably admires the ChiComs... so he'll probably okay it. Then the ChiComs can use our own manufacturing capacity against us.

[TransAm12sec]

Here's another site
http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

[Rocket Power]

Wouldn't surprise me if they tried, they gotta do something, even a cheap ass like me won't buy a china car like this:rolf
g5SRyG6UR2A

[Slow Joe]

That looks like it's in super slow motion...

[lordairgtar]

Dong Feng isn't only cars
http://www.softwar.net/dongfeng.html

[lordairgtar]

Wouldn't mind having one of the old limos they used.

[PB86MCSS]

For them to buy GM and Chryslier, they need to be for sale....I'm sure they'd love to own them but GM and Chrysler are probably waiting for the gov't to bail them out, bankruptcy or whatever.....but not selling. Even if something sold, no one would force them to sell to Chinese investors/company. I don't buy it.

[Rocket Power]

That looks like it's in super slow motion...

It is, that's how crash test videos are done, usually 500-1000 frames per sec depending on light avail.

[Karps TA]

That would make me sick. But why not we've been selling off this country to the Chinese for the last decade.

[Prince Valiant]

Wouldn't surprise me if they tried, they gotta do something, even a cheap ass like me won't buy a china car like this:rolf
g5SRyG6UR2A
What's amazing is that's a 5-mph bumper test.

Another possibility is an Indian manufactuer buying either.

[jbiscuit]

China is a super power. Not us. Look at the rate of construction there. And the amount of industry that has gone there. Its sickening. China will dominate the global market sooner than later with dam near everything at the rate they are going. Cars, electronics, mattresses, clothing you name it. They want in on american sales so bad they have been trying to get in here for quite some time. If GM or another automaker entertains offers you can bet Dong Feng, FHI, Maanshan Iron etc will want in....There are a lot of companies in China that would like to "buy" into the U.S. auto market with dam near petty cash!

[Karps TA]

Maybe it's cause they figured out you can have a pretty strong economy based on manufacturing, cause people always need stuff. The US decided it was better to base our economy on finance since that's where you can make a quick buck. However when the financial markets turn to crap theres nothing to fall back on.

[tommyt5078]

I'm all for it, then we won't have to bail them out of their own mess!!!!!

[wrath]

Last I checked the only reason the Chinese auto manufacturers were still in business was because of the Chinese government propping them up. Has this changed?

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

By "prop" do you mean supply manufactuerers with bodies that work for 2 cents an hour ? Eliminate the UAW and get some 2 cent an hour prison labor (Detroit at large) in there and most Americans would not mind "propping" up the big 3.

Propping up janitors and tire installers that make $75k a year with a golden pension and healthcare for life, not so much.

[Racer X79]

By "prop" do you mean supply manufactuerers with bodies that work for 2 cents an hour ? Eliminate the UAW and get some 2 cent an hour prison labor (Detroit at large) in there and most Americans would not mind "propping" up the big 3.

Propping up janitors and tire installers that make $75k a year with a golden pension and healthcare for life, not so much.

+1....Could not have said it better.....

[Nick]

China already owns us.
Look up "Manchurian Microchip"

[wrath]

By "prop" do you mean supply manufactuerers with bodies that work for 2 cents an hour ? Eliminate the UAW and get some 2 cent an hour prison labor (Detroit at large) in there and most Americans would not mind "propping" up the big 3.

Would you rather those UAW people worked for a living or be like half of Milwaukee and be unemployed stealing your shit?

The Chinese government owns a share of all the Chinese auto manufacturers that I know of.


Propping up janitors and tire installers that make $75k a year with a golden pension and healthcare for life, not so much.

Where is this $75k/year and this golden pension...?

Are you that pissed that you were born too late to get a factory job wearing out your body? There sure are a lot of fawkin' havenots on this forum.

Do you know why you can't get a factory job with a pension? Because in the 80s the white collar workers thought it was great to start eliminating pensions. Because in the 90s white collar workers thought it was a great to start moving general laborer jobs to China. Because in the 00s executives decided it was time to start moving white collar jobs to India. All of this because nobody wants to make an honest fscking dollar. Nobody wants to work for a living. Nobody wants a fair share, they want their share to be bigger.

So, it seems to me the real problem is that there are a bunch of havenots that can't be happy that some old people make $27-28/hr and have a $3080 pension when they retire. Why can't you be pissed at yourself for being stuck in a world where this has happened?

By my calculations we have a bunch of people to be pissed off at because they do "anything slave labor could do" and get paid well for it.
#1: Postal patrons. Why do they need to be paid $18-23/hr for handling mail and get a bling pension and medical benefits after 20 years? Fuck that shit, any quadriplegic on meth can deliver mail for minimum wage.
#2: Financial analysts. Anyone can do data entry. It's all about the software, not the person that uses it.
#3: Service people. Anyone can read a TechII and replace parts on a car. Or RTFM and fix the HVAC system in a house. Including a highschooler.
#4: IT people. They work in India for a lot less and they're tickled pink to do it for $3hr. They'll even work at night to observe our timezone (11 hours off).
#5: Warehousing/supply chain. RFID and a bunch of illegals driving forktrucks around. Hell, skip the forktrucks.
#6: Medical field. Can you read? Can you lift 5lbs? Sold, we don't need any skilled labor.
#7 Skilled trades. Can you thread and solder pipe? Can you weld? Can you cut sheetmetal with tinsnips or a plasma cutter? Can you program a CNC device? Great, so can a 11th grader.

[subliminal1284]

I think the main reason China never tried to start a war with us is because they knew from the beginning if they wanted to dominate us the best way to do it would be to do it economically. We sold our selves out with our greed and now China has us by the balls.

I do not agree with the bailouts, the government has no business in private organizations. We have to let companies fail. If we dont the companies will never learn from their mistakes and correct them. Even with the big 3 begging for money from the government they are still flying their executives on private jet flights that cost them $20,000 per flight not to mention the huge salaries and bonuses the executives get.

Id start learning Mandarin because pretty soon we are going to be the peoples republic of America

[MurphysLaw88GT]

I think the main reason China never tried to start a war with us is because they knew from the beginning if they wanted to dominate us the best way to do it would be to do it economically. We sold our selves out with our greed and now China has us by the balls.

I do not agree with the bailouts, the government has no business in private organizations. We have to let companies fail. If we dont the companies will never learn from their mistakes and correct them. Even with the big 3 begging for money from the government they are still flying their executives on private jet flights that cost them $20,000 per flight not to mention the huge salaries and bonuses the executives get.

Id start learning Mandarin because pretty soon we are going to be the peoples republic of America



teach em young

[ricksws7]

wrath You missed a couple,can you work on a assembly line and put the same nut on the same bolt for 30.00 dollars an hour. So can my 3 year old.

[lordairgtar]

Last I checked the only reason the Chinese auto manufacturers were still in business was because of the Chinese government propping them up. Has this changed?
How it works; The Central Committee of the Party decides that a car company must make 100,000 units during a given period. Car company sets up toling and support for the manufacture of those cars. Central Committee picks the peripheral support companies to provide parts and supplies. The Car company builds dorms and apartments to house workers who will no doubt flock in from the country side. Company also provides entertainment options as well, movie houses, karaoke, etcetera. Car company needs capitol to do this and Central Committee approves draft of funds to pay for it. Work begins. Car company is making less than projected monies. (there is no profit / loss margins in China) Car company asks Central Committee for more funds and CC decides if factory warrants it and usually will get another draft. The interesting twist to this is that all foreign owned business are required to follow their own nations laws and regs pertaining to their business, not China's. An American owned company doesn't get this benefit of help from the Central Committee.

[wrath]

wrath You missed a couple,can you work on a assembly line and put the same nut on the same bolt for 30.00 dollars an hour. So can my 3 year old.

They don't use nuts and bolts anymore. They use christmas trees and other push-on fasteners. :rolf Lugnuts aren't put on one at a time anymore either, they're autoloaded into a gun that puts them all on at the same time and torques them evenly.

Seriously though, what I'm saying is that if these jobs disappear there are a ton of other people that are going to lose theirs. And it'll cause tons of changes to even unrelated industries. It sets a precedent.

In other words, you're next.

If you don't have a job that requires daily use of complex problem solving skills, a particular skill that isn't easily learned, or something only a few people know your job is next. You work management so you think you're safe? Fat fscking chance. Anyone that knows lean manufacturing knows that middle management is like a middleman, just fat to be cut off.

Let me know how that construction management job that used to pay $24/hr pays in a couple years from now. It'll sure suck to have $40k in student loans and get a job that pays $13.50/hr and costs you $90/2weeks for crappy medical benefits.

[HITMAN]

I'd sooner see those companies sucked into a black hole than sold to the ChiComs.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

I'd sooner see those companies sucked into a black hole than sold to the ChiComs.

Yep...

100% CDM no boosheet

[Got Boost]

Blame it all on the unions ....Let the big three go bankrupt , get rid of all those big dollar pensions (more people getting big pensions then working ) Let chrysler die GM and ford will pick up what few profitable models they have,BTW postal workers dont get huge pensions an auto worker makes more an hour and has a way better pension..

[wrath]

Blame it all on the unions ....Let the big three go bankrupt , get rid of all those big dollar pensions (more people getting big pensions then working ) Let chrysler die GM and ford will pick up what few profitable models they have,BTW postal workers dont get huge pensions an auto worker makes more an hour and has a way better pension..

Postal Workers get pretty good pensions for what they don't do. It's all a part of CRSS. A postal worker with 30 years in that makes $23/hr near the end of retirement gets a pension of ~$2750/month depending on their "3 best years". And they get more once they turn 55 or if they had active military service. GM UAW workers get $3080/month. It's hard to beat Federal Government benefits.

Oh, and there are more Postal Workers than UAW. So next time you bitch about a factory worker bitch about paying nearly half a dollar to send a letter because some postal worker gets all these great benefits when any 6 year old can deliver a letter just like a 6 year old can put on lugnuts.

http://www.federaldaily.com/postal/overview.htm

[Got Boost]

Postal Workers get pretty good pensions for what they don't do. It's all a part of CRSS. A postal worker with 30 years in that makes $23/hr near the end of retirement gets a pension of ~$2750/month depending on their "3 best years". And they get more once they turn 55 or if they had active military service. GM UAW workers get $3080/month. It's hard to beat Federal Government benefits.

Oh, and there are more Postal Workers than UAW. So next time you bitch about a factory worker bitch about paying nearly half a dollar to send a letter because some postal worker gets all these great benefits when any 6 year old can deliver a letter just like a 6 year old can put on lugnuts.

http://www.federaldaily.com/postal/overview.htm
My father worked at the post office , he had to pay into his pension , the only real deal he gets now is he gets insurance at the couurent employee rate ...Your comment on the Chi Com govt. propping up their auto industry is interesiting ... Isnt that wat the bailout would do???? Copyin the Chicoms .... The new American way ...And an American auto worker must not do much either , thats why they need 25B+ When will the Airline Industry ask for there bailout????

[Got Boost]

Last I checked the only reason the Chinese auto manufacturers were still in business was because of the Chinese government propping them up. Has this changed?
25B by the govt to the US big three sounds like we are copying WHO???? Chinese government.... Whats next

[wrath]

My father worked at the post office , he had to pay into his pension , the only real deal he gets now is he gets insurance at the couurent employee rate ...Your comment on the Chi Com govt. propping up their auto industry is interesiting ... Isnt that wat the bailout would do???? Copyin the Chicoms .... The new American way ...And an American auto worker must not do much either , thats why they need 25B+ When will the Airline Industry ask for there bailout????

He had to pay into his pension? Are you talking about FERS and TSP? FERS you have to pay in and the federal government pay in. TSP is a glorified 401k. You put in 5% they match the first 3% plus half of the next 2%. So you put in 5% they put in 4%. Under FERS you get even more money back out than CRSS. Your Dad probably started work before 1984 in order to be under FERS. I bet you he's got a decent pension compared to the CSRS folks also.

The "bailout" to the Detroit 3 is a low interest rate loan. Not simply buying a bunch of preferred stock or giving the money away like the financial institutions have been blessed with. The neat thing about the loan is that if they were to fail guess who gets paid back first? Not like the financial companies where we're screwed if they go belly up. The only thing bailing out the financial companies did for us is allowed them to buy each other up at bargain prices. People still can't get loans, good businesses still can't get loans, and they're still pinkslipping like crazy. A lot of ******* good that did us.


25B by the govt to the US big three sounds like we are copying WHO???? Chinese government.... Whats next

The Chinese government dictates how, when, where, and how much their auto companies do. Plus they own them. $25 billion. How much have we dumped into the financial institutions so far? How much have we dumped into the middle east this year? We're never going to see that money back in one instance and the other one it's likely not going to pay interest if we ever get it back.

[Rocket Power]

The "bailout" to the Detroit 3 is a low interest rate loan. Not simply buying a bunch of preferred stock or giving the money away like the financial institutions have been blessed with. The neat thing about the loan is that if they were to fail guess who gets paid back first?
Giving loans to people who aren't qualified is what started this whole mess. How will they pay anything back if they fail? Auctioning off stuff? Who's going to buy an autoplant when nobody is buying cars?

All it is going to do is prolong the inevitable and piss away $25Billion. Let them reorganize under bankruptcy, because their current business model clearly isn't working. Something needs to change there and it isn't sucking $25 bil off the government tit

[wrath]

Giving loans to people who aren't qualified is what started this whole mess. How will they pay anything back if they fail? Auctioning off stuff? Who's going to buy an autoplant when nobody is buying cars?

All it is going to do is prolong the inevitable and piss away $25Billion. Let them reorganize under bankruptcy, because their current business model clearly isn't working. Something needs to change there and it isn't sucking $25 bil off the government tit

The Detroit 3 physically own stuff that can be sold. The financial institutions own nothing. Most don't even own the buildings they operate out of. All they do is push paper and electrons around. Yet, for some reason, we give them bunches of money that we're never going to get back. Plus, they didn't even do anything with it but horde it or use it to buy other companies.