Saturn Ion Redline

[BAD LS1]

WTF is this??? GM finally doing something the sport compact market kinda cool???

Check out the below link, they are making a 2.0L version of the Ecotec with a Eaton M90 with water to air intercooler and on 12 psi making 205 HP and 0-60 in 6.3 sec!!! for under 20K, this S.O.B. is right on the SRT4's heels which is at a lofty strung out 17 psi and only makes just slightly more HP

Also a 250 Hp Vue that goes 0-60 in 6.9 sec WTF????

Is GM back????? I just saw a review of the new Impala SS going 14.4 @ 94 for the love of god !!


http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=04395168

[Crawlin]

I talked with Ryan, the new car sales manager at Hall Chevrolet. He's who my dad bought the vette through, and is a car guy at heart too(gots a 35th Anni. SS). He was telling all sorts of things that GM is coming up with for the near future. From what he says, GM is trying to get back into the performance aspect of things. Supposedly there will FINALLY be a s/c version of the Monte SS/Impala SS like the GTP's and Regal GS's have always been. Keep watching for the new commercials supposedly coming out after the new year. supposed to have a C6 on a carrier going down the road as a short clip.

Chris

[Al]

I saw the commercial on speed channel. The C6 drives on the back of the car carrier along with a SS-R, a pickup and two other cars.

[A B4C Z]

All the monte SS and all the impala ss are supercharged for 04. We just got a 04 impala ss "brickyard Edition" its pretty sweet.


Cant wait to see how much horse the c6 will pack......Going to be 11 second car from the factory?

[y2kws6]

I can let you know what the Impala will run once the track opens ;)

Dan

[BadAzzGTA89]

See tom now ya know what i was preaching about all this time!! And the nightmare for imports is about to happen soon enough :3gears:
Example (import guy ) ..How much was that lil GM girl car???

(domestic Guy) ..Not much compared to your car plus all the money i saved i can do a lot more mods NOT that i need to!!

(import guy )..DAMM i got ripped overpriced POS !!!

(domestic Guy) :3gears: :flipoff:

[02hawk796]

OK, you were talking about a CAR carrier.
I was envisioning an aircraft carrier. Thinking it would be cool to see a commercial of a C6 lauched off the flight deck of a carrier!
Oh, well.

[Cleveland Dave]

Originally posted by BadAzzGTA89
See tom now ya know what i was preaching about all this time!! And the nightmare for imports is about to happen soon enough :3gears:
Example (import guy ) ..How much was that lil GM girl car???

(domestic Guy) ..Not much compared to your car plus all the money i saved i can do a lot more mods NOT that i need to!!

(import guy )..DAMM i got ripped overpriced POS !!!

(domestic Guy) :3gears: :flipoff:

i had a 96 saturn...they are piles...i would still make fun of anyone with a saturn its just like neon....its still a saturn...POS

i blew the **** out of my engine not once....three times...and everythign else fell apart on that thing...worst car i ever had.

it is nice to see more GM cars stepping up...its about time.

[BadAzzGTA89]

Originally posted by Madison Dave
i had a 96 saturn...they are piles...i would still make fun of anyone with a saturn its just like neon....its still a saturn...POS

i blew the **** out of my engine not once....three times...and everythign else fell apart on that thing...worst car i ever had.

it is nice to see more GM cars stepping up...its about time.

Yea maybe a 96 but the ECOTEC in these GM cars you will have a hard time blowing up!!! IMO great engine

[JohnnyT]

Yea, the engine might be good, but those cars are cheap as fuck! They rattle and creak and all around just look and feel cheap! Why the fuck didn't they just keep the F-body. Now all they are doing is playing catch up with the crap left behind... GHEY!

[BadAzzGTA89]

Originally posted by 2KSS-4027
Yea, the engine might be good, but those cars are cheap as fuck! They rattle and creak and all around just look and feel cheap! Why the fuck didn't they just keep the F-body. Now all they are doing is playing catch up with the crap left behind... GHEY!
Calm down i am just as mad as you about the f-body !!We have to let it go like all good things must come to an end!!!And yea they may be cheap but they are light one thing our f-body's are not:(

[Prince Valiant]

In as far as imports having nightmares, they already do. It's called the SRT-4, remember? :goof

But the ecotec is a good motor, but from what I've heard through fromTHE MOST RELIABLE SOURCE (the internet of course :D lol) that ecotec's are failing at about 275whp or so...stout for a four-banger, but in the world of boosted engines that's not the greatest. Given the sources of the claims, take it FWIW though.

[BadAzzGTA89]

Yea that's right the neon :rolleyes: Just look at this i dont see it failing at275!!
http://two.pairlist.net/pipermail/spc-list/Week-of-Mon-20020916/001618.html

[Prince Valiant]

But in order to supercede the power levels achieved by turbododges, they needed to change the open deck nature of the ecotec....that's not something you can do with a couple tools and a weekend of work. The mitsu 4g63, nissan sr20det and ka24XXX, 2.2 turbo dodges, 2.4 srt-4 motor all will easily live past 350hp with no short-block mods....and certianly without mods to the block itself.

the ion will be a neat car, yes...and GM fans will LOVE it as it will bring more fans to the brand itself...but you won't see the big aftermarket push over that car as it won't have that much further to go.Personally though I think it's better than any other current sport compact offering aside from the srt-4...to which the ion doesn't hold much of a candle to.

[Cleveland Dave]

what i dont understand with the dodge neon srt 4 and the redline both are front wheel drive....why dont they just step up and make a turbo awd to mess with the evo's and sti's.

[Prince Valiant]

Because the market they are trying to capture can't afford 24-30G compacts. What they want to do is simply get at least some of the kids into these cars so a few years later, when they are looking for a step up into a more mature vehicle, they've got some brand nazism in them and buy another chrysler/GM/etc....

And imo, AWD is overated....maybe worth a thousand bucks to me over the cost of a typical sport-compact. Anymore....then forget it. srt-4's are consistently cutting 2.00-2.10 and i'll never drive a car on the street to take advantage of AWD handling. And a car like that I won't want to drive in the winter anyways.

[JohnnyT]

Originally posted by Prince Valiant
And imo, AWD is overated.... And a car like that I won't want to drive in the winter anyways.

Why wouldn't you want to drive an AWD car like the STi or an EVO in winter? IMO it is the best of both worlds. Yea, they are a little pricey (so is the GTO...), but how can you knock the kind of performance and handling they have? Throw some Blizzaks on them in the winter and your all set. They don't use these cars in the WRC for nothing!

[Prince Valiant]

nothing wrong with driving it in the winter....if there wasn't Sooooo much salt on the roads. I like AWD, and know all to well how well it does work in the winter, but for the cost premium that it comands, it's not worth it.

[BAD LS1]

IMO the Ecotec motor has not been around long enough to prove anything about its worth....

If they are biding farewell @ 275 under forced induction on stock internals thats not saying much for it. The Ecotec is an all aluminum engine but its not built anywhere along the lines of an LS1 that the structure of which anyhow is built like brick sh!t house. The pistons, crank and rods are little left to be desired but there is forced induction LS1's making 700 Rwhp on the stock bottom end yet.

My question is why a blower??? i suppose it was easy to rob the GTP parts bin but im not sold on the idea like i am a turbo setup that will always provide more results any day of the week.

Ecotec is a cheap replacment for the LD9 Quad 4 engine that was just getting up there in age. Most of the head design flaws were purged by 1996 but made way for a low emmision lesser performance, mere shell of a W41 Quad 4. This engine is kinda dear to me and GM had the all out most BAD ASS 4 cylinder on the face of the planet for several years. A 190 hp N/A Quad 4 H.O. W41 in Olds Cutlass Calais Quad 442's went hi-mid 14's stock, they actually were torquey as hell EVERY WHERE in the power band, they sounded just wicked with lumpy ass idle. The heads flowed 270 CFM on the intake side and had .550" lift cams with 218 duration @.050".

It's a nice effort i guess but mid 14's arent gonna be fast enough... The Ecotec even falls short performance wise to the 2nd gen 96+ 2.4's and cant match the 1/4 miles times of which at all. Lash has a 2.4 Quad that goes 15.1 with a few odds and ends, that says it all right there, thats damn impressive to me.

There is only a FEW super fast forced induction Quads out there but they end up reverting back to the 1st gen head and intake to get anywhere. IMO high 12's out of a forced induction 2nd gen Quad is OK but most need N2o to get there??? WTF is that??? a crutch for a lack of tune or improper part selection is what that is!!!

OK im done venting.... for now ;)

[A B4C Z]

I always thought it would be cool to do a 2.4 96-98 cavlier with the gm supercharger. There was a guy that had a green grand am with the 5 speed and gm blower and it would take stock 01 mustang gt. Might not be a 1/4 mile terror but sure would be pretty fun i would think.

[BAD LS1]

Novel idea once again however... That GMPP blower setup is not a tuner kit and is gonna provide less than desired results, 40 hp is not worth the money and smaller pullies arent really an option like the L67 motors can easily be done. Gonna need a 1st gen Quad and gonna need a turbo!!! If i didnt rather spend my money on my Camaro which will produce the results i want regardless, i would get serious about this turbo setup for my ARCHAIC pushrod 2.2 "ironduke" engine. Whats the point though in trying to make a name for my self by making the fastest turbo 2.2 pushrod cavalier in exsistance all to impress a bunch of 16 yr old domestic ricer punks. I THINK NOT. If i do carry it out it will be for my personal enjoyment. Personally the fastest it proably would go is low 14's, Safe that is. Not cramming a ton of psi into it trying to blow it up like has been seen before, becasue the mind set of boost is well more is good ALOT is better, thats not always true, alot of care and planning has to be taken each LB of the way up the scale. Hence the lack of tune by most turbo kited cars providing less than impressive results on about 8,000 PSI just about that some guys are trying to pour in.

[Prince Valiant]

Originally posted by BADDLS1SS
for under 20K, this S.O.B. is right on the SRT4's heels which is at a lofty strung out 17 psi and only makes just slightly more HP AND BTW...the srt-4 runs at 14 psi, is rated at 230hp....but makes about 220-230 at the wheels...so it is quite underated :thumbsup

[BAD LS1]

Originally posted by Prince Valiant
AND BTW...the srt-4 runs at 14 psi, is rated at 230hp....but makes about 220-230 at the wheels...so it is quite underated :thumbsup

Hey im with you man, im really not trying to stand up for Ecosuc here and call it a "competitor" because it is still MUCHO slower than the SRT4.

[Prince Valiant]

well don't get me wrong...i'm not critical of the ion. Name one other sport compact that's better? Aside of course from the srt-4, none come to mind. I just think the ion will be shunned by hardcore tuner's.

I think the ion will do quite well...but won't do so well as to have a "market adjustment" placed on it like the srt's, so that will be great for the GM diehard who wants a fast/economical daily driver. The car is IMO, mission accomplished.

But I do agree...i'm not a fan of s/c's on small motors. One of the criticism of the cooper S, which uses a neon derived 1.6 liter (The cooper being a colaboration between BMW and Chrysler before the merger with diamler) with an eaton M6x, is that it is slow to rev...which makes sense since it has such a large mechanical drag imposed by the blower to overcome. The ion may fall prey to the same demons then.

[Syclone0044]

Damn! Now here's a topic I can get into!!!

First off, is this Turbo DOHC 2.0 GM motor for REAL?? I can't beleive it!!! If it is REALLY IN PRODUCTION then it's the FIRST turbocharged GM motor since the 1993 GMC Typhoon!!! (I don't count turbo diesels since they are not for performance driving). It sounds really great that they have something. I'm a little skeptical of their TORQUE ratings in the Autoweek article! It says "205-hp, 200-lb-ft supercharged". They'd have to try REALLY hard to get the torque to be less than the HP on a boosted application!! Unless it was spinning like 7000+! My guess is they did similar to what they did with the 89/90 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix 3.1 ratings... underrate the hell out of the torque! The Turbo 3.1 V6 (LG5) was rated at 205 HP and 220 LB-FT but I estimate more like 250 LB-FT!

If this Turbo 2.0 Ecotec is for real, then the best thing about it is that it brings a turbo powerplant to GM's lineup that is almost SURE to show up in other GM brand vehicles!! They wouldn't go through all that trouble just to release a one-off on one of their most obscure brands... Oh and I can't believe it has a forged crank, that's damn sweet if it's really a custom piece for this application like the Autoweek article implies.

BTW "97 z Me Go" your new avatar is Absolutely SMOKIN!!! :thumbsup :stare Who is that or where did you get it?

As for the "1000 HP GM Racing 2.2 Liter Ecotec" does anyone know what type of fuel they are running? I'm guessing a mix of methanol and NITROMETHANE!! :headbang

Madison Dave, I can tell you why they don't make it AWD! Because they don't have a company AWD drivetrain to graft onto the vehicle.. They'd have to design a brand new platform! That's a lot of stuff to "fit" underneath and would likely require a relocation of many major components.

Price Valiant if you think "AWD is overrated..", I'll give you a ride in my AWD truck some time on the street with $89 all-season tires and ask you what you think after a launch!! :goof If you think 2.00 is good what about a 1.68?

BADLS1SS, did I hear 1st Gen 2.3L Quad 4 and a turbo!?!?!? :confused :stare :headbang :rockwoot:

I will also agree with the SRT-4 power output underrating!

[Prince Valiant]

heh...I'm always ready for a ride in your truck :thumbsup

[A B4C Z]

I jacked it from some web site.:drool:

Kyle

[Lash]

2.4 LD9 > 2.2 ECO :D


Sorry.... just had to throw that in. ;)



Anyway.....

I wouldn't get my hope up on the new GM "DELTA" platform. Word around the J-body community about the factory boosted Ecotec's is that GM's claims will fall short of what is actually produced. I believe it. They are still economy oriented cars... what else would you expect.

just my .02


oh yeah.... I have seen as much as 21psi on a stock internal 2.2 ecotec cavalier. He runs as much as 15psi daily. The motor has lasted for about 1 year now. He must just have a lucky one :).

[MoreTorque]

Originally posted by 97 z Me Go

Cant wait to see how much horse the c6 will pack......Going to be 11 second car from the factory?

The C6 is going to have the LS2 with around 400hp. It will weigh about 100-150lbs more than the current Z06 C5, so for now, the C6 won't be a factory 11 second car. I guess all of the go fast parts are going into the econoboxes now. The C6 sure does look amazing though.

[Lash]

The new C6 kinda looks like a Ferarri from the front.

Very sweet looking car.

[beeyond]

didn't imports have nightmares before SRT4s...??? remember in earnly 90s when dodge shadow turbos came out.... those were fast......mid 14s....easily boosting high 13s.... just the same as the neons.....

I wont be worried about those srt4s and saturn turbos....LOL:flamet

[Prince Valiant]

Originally posted by beeyond
didn't imports have nightmares before SRT4s...??? remember in earnly 90s when dodge shadow turbos came out.... those were fast......mid 14s eh...the regular 90's shadow came with the 2.5 TurboI (non-intercooled) 150hp/210ft-lb torque four banger was a mid 15 second car (though I know a bone stock 2.5 running 15.2@88mph)...the 90 VNT Turbo IV was rated for 175hp (turbo IV's are Variable nozzle turbo's for less lag and intercooled) were low 15's high 14's...my CSX has the VNT motor and has run 14.8 or 14.7...it's been a few years since I last had it at the track. MPH in the 92-93range. For that kind of trap speed, you figure it's actually making about 170-180 hp @ the wheels, so it is an underated motor. But the Shelby's like mine run a different ECU that runs more boost (it runs a steady 14 vs factory setting of 12, and spikes up to 17psi for periods up to 5-6 seconds, especially when it's cold out) What really helps these things is relocating the intercooler...stock placement SUCKS!!!

The omni GLHS's and Charger GLHS on the other hand were quite a bit quicker. The motors were rated the same, but actually made a little less power, but the car is almost 400 lbs lighter than the P-body shadows. There is a high 11/low 12 omni GLHS running around here now.

I raced an srt-4 on a roll last summer in the CSX. It wasn't even close. He mudered me.

Also raced an Evo...it was funny because he pulled up next to me asking about the csx. Then said he was warned not to race me...I had "mods" :confused. I told him he has me confused with someone else, and for fun let's go from 15mph...it was close through first and half of second...but then he started leaving me easily. Of course, It would have been worse had he not had two passenger's in the car :nutkick (to be fair...they both couldn't have topped 140 soaking wet :goof )

[sachin528]

Originally posted by BADDLS1SS
Also a 250 Hp Vue that goes 0-60 in 6.9 sec WTF????


engine sourced from Honda. 3.5L V6. JA35K***